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[NWN] MASSIVE FPS drop when Robes/Cloaks/Ranged Weapons are seen


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#1
Olano

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Prior to equiping robes on my wizard, my FPS is at 250. As soon as the robes are displayed, my FPS drops to 24.

I have followed the windows 7 post for assistance but it has not helped.

Win 7 x64
q6600
8 gig memory
GTX 470 (latest drivers)
Creative XiFi (lastest drivers)

Any ideas?

Edited by Olano, 26 August 2010 - 05:00 PM.


#2
HipMaestro

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running v1.69?
CEP installed?
PRC installed?
any other custom utilities installed?
how much is in your override folder?
tried disabling shiny water?

similar problem with Vista

nvidia threaded optimization adjustment

editing cloakmodel.2da can help

would really help if you posted the detailed specs recommended in the Start Here sticky.  I had to google just to figure out that a GTX 470 was a nvidia card (I only use ati's myself).  none of us are getting any younger. ;)

Edited by HipMaestro, 23 August 2010 - 04:39 AM.


#3
Olano

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Game Version: NWN 1 with all expansions. No CEP, no PRC. Only thing I have installed is an ingame character/item customiser.

Game Language: English

Retail or Digital: Retail / Diamond

Processor Manufacturer: Intel

Processor Type: q6600

Processor Speed: 376x9 (3384)

Operating System / Service Pack: Win 7 x64 (all updates)

System RAM: 8 gigs

Video Card Manufacturer: NVIDIA

Video Card Model: GTX 470

Video Card RAM: 1280

Video Card Driver Version: GeForce/ION Driver Release 256.96

Sound Card Manufacturer: Creative

Sound Card Model: SB X-Fi

Sound Card Driver Version: 2.18.0015

CD/ROM Type: LiteON CD/DVD burner.

** Yes, shiny water is disabled.

Also, no matter what my video settings are (ie. resolution, AA, textures, shadows, etc...) the FPS stays right at 24/25.


similar problem with Vista     Okay

nvidia threaded optimization adjustment   Turning it off made it worse, dropped to 19 FPS. I put it back on "Auto".

editing cloakmodel.2da can help    Not sure what to edit. Am I disabling them? I would like to avoid that if possible.

If I have to disable, is there a 2da for robes too? As they lower my FPS.

Edited by Olano, 23 August 2010 - 04:33 PM.


#4
HipMaestro

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Olano wrote...

Game Version: NWN 1 with all expansions. No CEP, no PRC. Only thing I have installed is an ingame character/item customiser.
 

What is this utility... something like LETO?  That's the first thing to remove before fooling with the 2das.  Try running a plain, vanilla v1.69 without anything in the override (I believe Diamond installs a few benign files in the override folder but they are quite easy to identify, if you need help doing so.  Everything else MUST be removed to establish a baseline.)  Then re-check the FPS using cloaks & robes with a clean install and report back.

editing cloakmodel.2da can help    Not sure what to edit. Am I disabling them? I would like to avoid that if possible. 
If I have to disable, is there a 2da for robes too? As they lower my FPS.

Did you read the entire topic from the legacy forum provided with each link? There are several suggestions other than the one I picked for the title. The edit procedure seemed very clear to me.  I can't tell how the fix is manifested. It may just suppress the cloak models from being drawn on your character yet still granting the properties of the cloak.

As for robes, they are possibly in with the rest of the armor but some snooping will need to be done to figure that out.  Try removing the customiser completely before we spend any more time throwing darts.

Edited by HipMaestro, 23 August 2010 - 06:59 PM.


#5
Olano

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HipMaestro wrote...
... something like LETO?  That's the first thing to remove before fooling with the 2das.  Try running a plain, vanilla v1.69 without anything in the override (I believe Diamond installs a few benign files in the override folder but they are quite easy to identify, if you need help doing so.  Everything else MUST be removed to establish a baseline.)  Then re-check the FPS using cloaks & robes with a clean install and report back.


The In-game Custom Character Hak is:
http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=6445

I cleaned out everything in the override folder, aside from those Diamond files, and still found the huge drop in FPS when robes were equiped.

Did you read the entire topic from the legacy forum provided with each link? There are several suggestions other than the one I picked for the title. The edit procedure seemed very clear to me.  I can't tell how the fix is manifested. It may just suppress the cloak models from being drawn on your character yet still granting the properties of the cloak.

As for robes, they are possibly in with the rest of the armor but some snooping will need to be done to figure that out.  Try removing the customiser completely before we spend any more time throwing darts.


I tried CPU affinity and disabling the sound, both times the FPS still dropped.

I guess I am going to disable robes/cloak visuals in the 2da files and just play like that. Posted Image

A wizard without robes and cloak.... blasphemy!

Edited by Olano, 24 August 2010 - 04:39 PM.


#6
HipMaestro

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One other thing you can try and simpler than editing 2das...

In the nwnplayer.ini, set Visible Cloaks=0 in the [Game Options] section. It could just be the rendering that drops the frame rate down so low. The drop from robes is another issue to hash out.

Also, in order to test any adjustment made to the game resources, you should NOT use a previous save but rather start a new game and note the performance.  Try all three combos, each in its own new game... w/only cloak, w/only robe, w/both cloak and robe.

Edited by HipMaestro, 24 August 2010 - 05:39 PM.


#7
Olano

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starting a new game each time, robe equiped dropped FPS to 20, cloak equiped drop FPS to 20, and both equped dropped FPS to 20.



I will use the visible cloak option, but I will still need to find robes in one of the files.



I have found parts_robes which dictates what each robe hides, what texture it uses, etc... but I cannont find a file similar to the cloakmodel 2da that you can just disable the model from loading all together. I have check all armor 2da files under nwn, shadows, and hordes in the nwnexplorer. I am not sure where else they would keep them as robes is not listed as a part under those files.

#8
Calvinthesneak

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I'm running win 7 professional 64 bit.

Processor is dual core e8600, video is 295GTX, I have 8 gigs of DDR 2 RAM.

I don't have this problem at all. So either it's the newer vid card (likely it has issues with openGL). I'm running the 197.45 drivers. (probably not an option with that card).

As for the robes there isn't any way to turn them off.

EDIT:  Make sure you're running the nwmain.exe as administrator and in winxp service pack 3 compatibility mode.  Right click on icon to do this, not on shortcut.

Edited by Calvinthesneak, 25 August 2010 - 06:38 PM.


#9
Calvinthesneak

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A couple threads to look through for problems

http://nwn.bioware.c...718553&forum=42





The following problem is addressed in the link above, and this is something I had to do when I was running Win7 Ultimate RC candidate 64 bit.

I had a problem with Neverwinter Nights 2. Apparently it uses OpenGL but uses the Direct X version checker to check the hardware requirements. Because of this it was saying the Direct X version was out of date and not allowing the game to continue. In the end I found the answer on the Obsidian Forums (The game developers) it involves copying one of the direct X files from either Vista or XP (I used XP) and the game then runs fine.



Maybe this is also the workaround for other OpenGL games like Quake Wars.



1) You need "dxdiagn.dll" from Windows Vista or Windows XP. It can be found in system32 directory (For example, C:\\Windows\\System32). This file is part of directX redistributable, so you can download it without breaking any copyrights.

2) Find "dxdiagn.dll" in your Windows 7 system32 directory and take ownership on it. Rename it for "dxdiagn.dll.old".

3) Copy Vista's "dxdiagn.dll" to Windows 7 system32 directory.



If you want it working for a x64 system do the same steps as above but for the folder c:\\windows\\sysWOW64\\ instead of system32



I've had problems trying to take ownership on the dxdiagn.dll file. I solved it with this file: http://www.blogsdna....keownership.zip



It adds a contextual menu right-clicking on the file, then, you can easily get ownership on it. After that, you can delete, move or change it for another one. I changed only the one in the system32 folder.

In this zip file, there are 2 .reg files, one adds contextual menu, and the other is for get off that option, if you want. It automatically adds the entry to the registry - ignore the warning. It is very useful for getting at locked files.



Hope this all helps.



#10
Olano

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^followed the above steps, it is a no go. I really wish there was a way to disable robes.

#11
Olano

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After further investigation, I have discovered that ranged weapons also cause my FPS to drop to 20. This includes slings, crossbows, and bows. If no cloak, robe, or ranged weapon is viewed, my fps is fine. This has made the game unplayable for me.

Posted Image

Edited by Olano, 26 August 2010 - 04:33 PM.


#12
TheExcimer-500

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Olano wrote...

After further investigation, I have discovered that ranged weapons also cause my FPS to drop to 20. This includes slings, crossbows, and bows. If no cloak, robe, or ranged weapon is viewed, my fps is fine. This has made the game unplayable for me.

Posted Image


I'm having the exact same problem with a Nvidia GTX480.
Anytime any character in view has a robe or ranged weapon out my FPS drops to an unplayable 10-20.
This is even with a vanilla setup (fresh install) on the original NWN campaign.

Driver version: 258.96
Windows 7 (64bit)
Intel i930
12gb ram

Contact Nvidia and hope they can put a fix in?
I've tried changing all possible settings ingame and on the nvidia control panel and no change.

Edited by TheExcimer-500, 28 August 2010 - 07:14 AM.


#13
Olano

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^ oh brother in pain! ^



Yes, I was thinking that. I had not done it yet, as I feel they will ignore issues with such an old game.

#14
s0ulrager

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I'm having the same issue, video card is GTX460.

It only started happening when I updated NWN from 1.66 to 1.69

I had a look through the model files in data/xp2patch.bif and  found the models that had been updated for all ranged weapons.

I extracted the original ranged weapon models from data/models_02.bif and dumped them in the override folder. Sure enough.. problem fixed.

I opened both old and new models with an app called nwnexplorer and compared the difference. The only change with all the new models is that they now have a bowstring O.o

The bowstrings texture looks slightly transparent.

No idea why the Geforce 400 series doesn't like the newer model.

With the override fix and setting Visible Cloaks to 0 in nwplayer.ini the game is running at 200fps instead of 20fps. Hope this helps anyone.

Download link: http://rapidshare.co...1/rangedfix.rar
Extract into your override folder

Edited by s0ulrager, 04 November 2010 - 09:08 AM.


#15
QlippothVI

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If I recall correctly, I remember hearing that NVidia was dropping support for some graphic feature in OpenGL that was used in NWN. I could be incorrect.

Robes, Cloaks, and bows all use transparency (bow strings), so maybe that's the issue. Maybe there are other OpenGL drivers out there instead of removing features?

EDIT: I put up an Idea on the Vault for a fix to be researched, hopefully someone can come up with something,
http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=3143

- Qlippoth

Edited by QlippothVI, 14 November 2010 - 12:45 AM.


#16
Mudeye

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Has anyone tried this:
http://nwn.bioware.c...589123&forum=49

Pertinent text shown below:

The_Krit


   
What I find interesting is that someone on a different forum has
reported performance drop with normal settings, and and increase without
cloaks/skins etc on the character.


Shortly after 1.68 came
out, there were similar reports, and those were tracked down to a sound
problem. Does disabling the sound (not turning down the volume, but
opening menu -> Configure -> Change -> Sound: Disabled) help?


    Quote: Is there a way to disable the cloak visual at all?


Yes.
Just set all the models to 0 in cloakmodel.2da and stick the result in
your override directory. It's not hard to do yourself -- the file is
probably in your source directory, and any text editor can edit it --
and the end result can be downloaded from the Vault. (Either search
there, or try with the sound disabled and I'll track down a link.)
_________________
Fix tan cloaks with Cloak Converter, also available for Linux and Macs.

Cloaks are not supposed to be potato sacks!
  Profile: The_Krit   Send Message To: The_Krit
Mardragon7



Disabling sound did not have an increased performance. Fps: 26,1

Edit Cloakmodel 2da to 0.

Bham! We have a winner. FPS at 124-140.

I am now gonna update my 8800GTX to latest driver, and happily play both NwN1 and NwN2.

Still there is issues, but there is now a workaround for performance, as I see it.

Thank you for you aid, The_Krit.

Edited by Mudeye, 16 November 2010 - 05:05 PM.


#17
QlippothVI

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Yeah, I tried all of those things hoping to be able to post a definitive solution for everyone...

I haven't had any problems with my trusty 8800GTX (aside from issue with NWN letting me play in 1080p, which I've licked for now), just the newer cards and their drivers (400 series). I wept quietly as I removed the Zotac AMP! 460 OC to ship back, and in went my old 8800 gtx.  :unsure:

I know I can knock out the robes, but I'd have to drop bows, slings, and cloaks, too. And I work on several NWN projects, so I need to be able to play NWN (and who in their right mind would CREATE an NWN module without any of those?).

I'm waiting on the new ATI parts, not sure which to get yet.  :huh:  I'll try to post a bug report to nVidia, but AFAIK it was a conscious decision on their part. I really dig on the hardware physics of nVidia parts.

EDIT: By "conscious decision" I mean support for OpenGL 1.5 used for NWN, I don't think they made a conscious decision to drop support for NWN _specifically_.

- Qlippoth

Edited by QlippothVI, 20 November 2010 - 12:14 AM.


#18
Chrisman

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s0ulrager wrote...

I'm having the same issue, video card is GTX460.

It only started happening when I updated NWN from 1.66 to 1.69

I had a look through the model files in data/xp2patch.bif and  found the models that had been updated for all ranged weapons.

I extracted the original ranged weapon models from data/models_02.bif and dumped them in the override folder. Sure enough.. problem fixed.

I opened both old and new models with an app called nwnexplorer and compared the difference. The only change with all the new models is that they now have a bowstring O.o

The bowstrings texture looks slightly transparent.

No idea why the Geforce 400 series doesn't like the newer model.

With the override fix and setting Visible Cloaks to 0 in nwplayer.ini the game is running at 200fps instead of 20fps. Hope this helps anyone.

Download link: http://rapidshare.co...1/rangedfix.rar
Extract into your override folder



This has helped with my GTX 460! FPS is 200-300.


BUT


It randomly still drops to 20 FPS at some places (IE: Entering a building) Though it seems random right now, sometimes I enter buildings an 200+ FPS sometimes not, most the time though I am at 200+ FPS.


Thus, Id say with  Soulrage's fix it makes it playable, though not perfect something else is buggin.




~ Chris

Edited by Chrisman, 28 November 2010 - 08:23 PM.


#19
s0ulrager

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The robes are still causing a slow down, though you can choose to disable displaying your own robe I can't find any way to change NPC robes yet. Think I might try playing around with opengl dll files from older nvidia drivers...

#20
Chrisman

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Just to confirm, It seems the only thing left that brings it to 20FPS is the robes, I haven't notice anything else that does. So, with cloaks disabled (Tho it sucks), the override Soulrage has made for the bows, crossbows ect, and something to alter the robes would make the game fully playable with 400 Series cards,



Well at least GTX 460.





~ Chris

#21
MazzoniM

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What about ATI's new cards? Do they share this problem as well? I was going to buy a 460, but now I am reconsidering that idea.

Edited by MazzoniM, 02 December 2010 - 10:05 AM.


#22
QlippothVI

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Nobody? I have not heard of any issues, but nor have I done any exhaustive searching on the web yet.
I just found this, not sure the issue was resolved or how many are affected (aside from this guy): http://www.gog.com/e...l_not_run/page2

I heard they are working on a driver fix at nVidia, but no delivery date is posted. So it could be a few driver versions (if they can fix it). I'm stuck waiting to see which part (ATI or nVidia) I can get to play NWN and new games, myself. I'll try to update here when I can learn something definitive.

- Qlippoth

Edited by QlippothVI, 14 January 2011 - 07:34 PM.


#23
Lord Sullivan

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As far as I know, ATI does not suffer from that issue. ATI only suffers from not rendering shiny water

properly anymore which I find to kind of suck, but at least the game is fine in all other areas.


#24
NorthWolf

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Someone's probably already suggested this, but it never hurts to double check you haven't missed something simple, so... make sure you've disabled visual themes and desktop composition.



The obvious solution to this to let you all bide your time until/if nVidia makes a fix is to enable all parts visible in parts_robe.2da and then override all robe models with a blank model. I would gladly do so but I've never fidgeted with models for NWN.

#25
AndarianTD

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This is related to a game compatibility issue (which I posted about on a similar thread) with the 400+ series of NVIDIA cards in general. The video card on my gaming rig died a couple of months ago and I replaced it with a GTX 470, which is displaying all of the symptoms described here. Fortunately my laptop runs a 9800M GS that handles NWN pretty smoothly, so I've been able to continue my development work on it.

What's happening is that rendering is going choppy whenever animation of certain models comes into the field of view. The worst cases of it are happening with the wing beating animations of my ridable pegasi. Interestingly enough The Witcher (which I think uses the Aurora engine and which I finally got around to starting just after the replacement) doesn't seem to have any problems, so I'm guessing it's mainly an issue with existing NWN models and animations rather than the engine itself.

I opened a ticket with NVIDIA on the issue, sent them links to the forum threads here about it and to the ridable pegasus model, and even provided video clips illustrating the rendering difference between the GTX 470 and the 9800M GS. Their last message said it was being escalated to their Level 2 Technical Support group, but that a resolution might take some time.

One other thing that may be worth noting is that when I first got my (Vista) laptop, I had the exact same FPS drop problem until I switched sound into safe mode. Unfortunately that fix no longer works for the problem with the 400+ series cards.

EDIT: There are a couple of open threads on the NVIDIA forums about this here and here. It looks like others have complained about it and opened tickets as well.

Edited by AndarianTD, 15 January 2011 - 03:59 PM.