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Has friendly fire been removed?


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#1
deuce985

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I noticed in the new PC gameplay FF wasn't there. Is it removed? I really hope not...that is a pretty huge tactical part of the gameplay.

Edited by deuce985, 17 December 2010 - 04:17 PM.


#2
Leonia

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More than likely the gameplay video was not showing us a PC playing on nightmare mode.

#3
Altima Darkspells

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Well, DAO didn't have friendly fire on the Easy level, too.



And I don't think the consoles even had friendly fire until either hard or nightmare modes, too.



On the other hand, Hawke almost died (twice) in the gameplay, so I dunno.

#4
David Gaider

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deuce985 wrote...
I noticed in the new PC gameplay FF wasn't there. Is it removed? I really hope not...that is a pretty huge tactical part of the gameplay.


It's based on difficulty.

#5
Liablecocksman

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David Gaider wrote...

deuce985 wrote...
I noticed in the new PC gameplay FF wasn't there. Is it removed? I really hope not...that is a pretty huge tactical part of the gameplay.


It's based on difficulty.


Are these the same as DA:O, then?
Consoles activating on hard, while computer activates on normal?

#6
Bobad

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David Gaider wrote...

deuce985 wrote...
I noticed in the new PC gameplay FF wasn't there. Is it removed? I really hope not...that is a pretty huge tactical part of the gameplay.


It's based on difficulty.


Cool, but will companion and friendly NPC's resist the suicidal tendancy to run into AOE spells & attacks? 

#7
David Gaider

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Liable****sman wrote...
Are these the same as DA:O, then?
Consoles activating on hard, while computer activates on normal?


I'm not sure. All I know is that FF exists.

#8
Wulfram

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What we've been told before is that it's only on Nightmare

#9
Garrett Bannister

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Wulfram wrote...

What we've been told before is that it's only on Nightmare


and that it's subject to change, if i remember correctly

#10
Akka le Vil

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Why can't it simply be a toggle ?

#11
ErichHartmann

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Akka le Vil wrote...

Why can't it simply be a toggle ?


/signed

#12
Ensgnblack

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IIRC it was said that FF is only turned off in Nightmare. Once again, thats only what I remember, so I could be incorrect

#13
Ziggeh

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Akka le Vil wrote...

Why can't it simply be a toggle ?

Difficulty balancing. Doubles your work load

#14
Vylan Antagonist

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Again, one possible complication is that AoE stuff seems like it's much more common. That's now what Warriors 'do'. They are melee controllers. Their basic attacks are AoE. It's one thing to juggle your AoE mage spells. It's another thing entirely to worry about being tagged by your warrior's basic attacks just because you are in hir vicinity. If turning off Friendly Fire also effects warrior basic attacks, then it's no wonder that they've reconciled it to Nightmare level of difficulty, because it would indeed be a nightmare to manage that.

#15
Reaverwind

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ErichHartmann wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

Why can't it simply be a toggle ?


/signed


/signed too

#16
David Gaider

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Akka le Vil wrote...
Why can't it simply be a toggle ?


Because it has a profound effect on the difficulty. Hence it being attached to the difficulty.

Or that, anyhow, is what I assume. Attaching things to toggles is great, but if someone flips that on and doesn't know that it will suddenly make their "Easy" game not quite so Easy anymore... well, that wouldn't be good.

#17
ErichHartmann

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David Gaider wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...
Why can't it simply be a toggle ?


Because it has a profound effect on the difficulty. Hence it being attached to the difficulty.

Or that, anyhow, is what I assume. Attaching things to toggles is great, but if someone flips that on and doesn't know that it will suddenly make their "Easy" game not quite so Easy anymore... well, that wouldn't be good.


It would be the players fault for flipping on the toggle, lol. 

#18
Ryzaki

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I tend to give people enough credit to realize that if FF is by default off and they switch it on then realize battles got a lot harder they'd have enough sense to realize that it was because they turned FF on.

Not to mention if damage output shows up the same as in DAO they'll realize they're the ones doing the damage.

Edited by Ryzaki, 17 December 2010 - 06:15 PM.


#19
Ziggeh

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They've made a bunch of changes that let them more tightly control the game difficulty, they can't provide the option and then not balance it, that would defeat one of their aims.

#20
David Gaider

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ErichHartmann wrote...
It would be the players fault for flipping on the toggle, lol. 


Yeah, I don't think "YOU ARE SUCH A NOOB LOL" is really a response that's going to work.

Toggles need to work for everyone, and we need to balance accordingly. An option that's more for advanced users is the kind of thing you'd stick in as an .ini file setting, I'd suspect. Feel free to ask for something different, but I think there's more affected by such a change than you'd think.

Edited by David Gaider, 17 December 2010 - 06:23 PM.


#21
PsychoBlonde

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I'm happy with a lack of friendly fire in Normal, personally. I found that it just gimped the usefulness of a lot of the damage spells, making the CC mage in Origins even more overpowered by comparison.

#22
Gill Kaiser

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Last I heard (a few months ago) was that FF was limited to Nightmare, which is a decision I wasn't particularly enamoured with.

I'd like to see full friendly fire on Hard, minimum. Wanting Friendly Fire doesn't necessarily mean you simply want a higher difficulty. Friendly Fire shouldn't be lumped in with difficulty only; to do so is a gross oversimplification.

#23
Ziggeh

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Gill Kaiser wrote...
Friendly Fire shouldn't be lumped in with difficulty only; to do so is a gross oversimplification.

That assumes the decision was made outside of the difficulty balancing process.

#24
Wulfram

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It will be annoying if my incompetence will basically force me to not have friendly fire.

I also have to suspect that if FF is only on nightmare it won't be properly balanced and the AI won't handle it at all well.

Edited by Wulfram, 17 December 2010 - 06:49 PM.


#25
Loc'n'lol

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David Gaider wrote...
Yeah, I don't think "YOU ARE SUCH A NOOB LOL" is really a response that's going to work.


What ? It works every time !
In fact the game should give you that line whenever your party wipes.