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Mr. Gamble, you have me scratching my head . . . (Now With Links!)


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#1
ShadowNinja1129

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Hello BSN, BioWare, and Mr. Gamble.

Indulge me for a bit here, because I'm looking for a little clarity concerning some of Michael Gamble's statements over the past few weeks. This isn't a cold attempt to make some conspiracy theory attack or anything, I'm just genuinely confused based on some of the correspondence I've seen. And please, forumites, don't just pat me on the head and tell me its all PR speak, because I feel like that's a cop-out from addressing the inconsistencies here.

First, we all remember Mr. Gamble's tweet two days after ME3 hit the shelves:

"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you guys knew all the stuff we are planning, you'd, we'll[sic] - hold onto your copy of me3 forever."

You may view that original tweet here: twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/statuses/177942797880541185

This fueled a lot of speculation, especially for those arguing for IDT. This statement alone isn't confusing on its own merits, it only gets curious when we consider some of the more recent communications.

Mr. Gamble very recently tweeted that the "Extended Cut DLC" was one of the things he alluded to in the above tweet (can be viewed here: twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/statuses/187928555408211968, it was in response to someone who asked if the original tweet was referring to Extended Cut).

Here's the thing: The Extended Cut DLC has been painted as a response to all of the negative fan feedback received over the endings as they currently stand. Mr. Gamble even said at PAX that they didn't realise there would be a huge demand for clarity and closure in the endings. (I believe it can be viewed here at like five/six minutes in or so: www.youtube.com/watch)

If this is the case, how could you have alluded to that just two days after the game's release?

Even if BioWare had formally began considering the idea of making an Extended Cut DLC based on the very early and limited fan feedback that was on the forums the first two days after ME3's release, the phrase "planning" implies that the DLC would already have been in the works, BEFORE the fans complained about the ending. BioWare also released a statement saying that the DLC schedule was being reprioritized to account for the fans desire for clarity and closure (this statement was quoted from Casey and can be viewed here: investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm). This also implies that the Extended Cut DLC was already in the works and got promoted to top priority when the fan backlash heightened.

Another interesting piece of food for thought: Many folks have argued for and against IDT using data from the Final Hours app ("Lots of speculation" page is often used as the criticism for IDT and "Cut gameplay section with Shepard falling under full Reaper control" is often used as the support for IDT). Honestly, the Final Hours app is pretty inconclusive as far as answering the question "Is IDT true?"

The PAX panel was asked whether IDT was true or not, and if I remember correctly Michael Gamble was the one who responded, saying that BioWare didn't want to comment for or against IDT because they wanted the Extended Cut DLC to "speak for itself" (Again, I believe it can be viewed here or in the Part 2 following it: www.youtube.com/watch). Historically, someone only pulls a "I will neither confirm or deny" when the topic in question is still on the table. I'm not trying to assert that BioWare's reluctance to comment on IDT makes it true, I'm just saying that BioWare hasn't ruled out the possibility either.

So my question for you, Mr. Gamble, is this:

Did BioWare have this Extended Cut DLC planned before the fan backlash or not?

Because if they did, do the endings have some yet-to-be-revealed secret that implies "all is not as it seems," whether that be IDT or some other crazy awesome thing we haven't even thought of (because if that was the plan all along, the Extended Cut wouldn't be "changing" the ending to IDT/something else, as that was what the ending alluded to the whole time)? Or did time and budget just get in the way and force BioWare to release the complete ending at a later date? Would that be part of some crafty plan to kill used game sales (Sorry, I said I wasn't going to go conspiracy theory, so I'll stop there)?

If BioWare didn't have the Extended Cut DLC planned when you made your first tweet, Y U NO MAKE SENSE? Call me naive, but I don't want to write this off as simple "bungled PR" or some other B.S. I do honestly believe that you, Mr. Gamble, and BioWare as a whole are a team of incredible, creative individuals who are listening to your fans and doing your best to provide at least some feedback in the midst of the s**tstorm we've put you in. Would it be nice if BioWare was engaging in a more open dialogue with the fanbase? Yes, but I can understand your reluctance reading a lot of the not-so-"cool and collected" fan backlash.

I've seen you comment on these forums before, Mr. Gamble, and I hope my questions and confusions have come across as reasonable and worth responding to. If I had a twitter I'd just ask you this there, but since I don't this is the best place I can come up with.

Edited by ShadowNinja1129, 10 April 2012 - 11:08 AM.


#2
Guest_All Dead_*

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They just seem to be making things up as they go along at this point.

#3
Bill Casey

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Mike Gamble also said "holding onto your Mass Effect 3 save states wouldn't be a bad idea, obviously I can't say why. But it wouldn't be a bad idea" before ME3 was even released...

www.gamerzines.com/xbox/news-xbox/mass-effect-3-saves.html

Edited by Bill Casey, 10 April 2012 - 07:00 AM.


#4
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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All Dead wrote...

They just seem to be making things up as they go along at this point.


Better than not making up anything, I guess.

Honestly? We're just going to have to wait for the DLC for real answers. I don't think they're going to reveal a whole lot about it; nor should they, in my opinion. I'd like to be surprised. In a good way, of course.

Edited by BringBackNihlus, 10 April 2012 - 07:02 AM.


#5
ShadowNinja1129

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Bill Casey wrote...

Mike Gamble also said "holding onto your Mass Effect 3 save states wouldn't be a bad idea, obviously I can't say why. But it wouldn't be a bad idea" before ME3 was even released...

www.gamerzines.com/xbox/news-xbox/mass-effect-3-saves.html


Duhh . . . waaahhhh?

MR. GAMBLE, WHY U NO MAKE SENSE?

Please don't tell me you're just trying to drum up buzz, Mr. Gamble. Trust me, you don't need to. The day ME3 was announced as available for pre-order (around E3 if I remember) I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition. I've never pre-ordered any other game, nor have I ever bought a collectors edition before.

#6
Bill Casey

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Also, I don't see how "lots of speculation" and multiple references to an "ambiguous ending" is in any way an argument against Indoctrination...

If anything, it suggests the ending wasn't something to be taken at face value...

Edited by Bill Casey, 10 April 2012 - 07:07 AM.


#7
OneWithTheAssassins

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I think he was lying about the whole "this dlc was planed from the start" bit.

#8
ShadowNinja1129

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Bill Casey wrote...

Also, I don't see how "lots of speculation" and multiple references to an "ambiguous ending" is in any way an argument against Indoctrination...

If anything, it suggests the ending wasn't to be taken at face value...


Personally, I agree with you, I was just attempting to pre-placate the crowd so this didn't become another "IDT RULES, IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING" "NO, IDT IS STUPID AND BASELESS" kind of threads, because that's not the focus of my post.

I just really want to understand what Mike meant with these statements. Has the Ending DLC been in the works, or not? He's been the most vocal about it and has also responded to forum threads concerning him before, so I'm quietly hoping he might drop in at some point. But theories from BSN are also very much welcome, because honestly, I'm surprised someone hasn't questioned this sooner (maybe someone did, I haven't seen any threads on it).

#9
Mushufasa1512

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IDT RULE.... oh wait I mean I'm pretty sure all of the confusion in various tweets is due to Bioware being caught completely off guard by the fan reaction. They obviously had some type of plan in place for DLC releases, and it seems things have had to change on the fly. This leads to some understandable confusion. Now the problem comes in when no one bothers to clear up said confusion.

#10
halbert986

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There are quite a few tweets that cemented my belief in indoc theory.

One being "If people knew what was coming, the reaction would be different."

But ever since they officially addressed the endings they seem to be running in the opposite direction. I doubt EA would just say "yeah you hold onto that epic twist you have there. Give them free dlc in the meantime while we lose money. It will pay off long term."

#11
oblique9

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I've thought for a while, in the back of my head, ever since playing the ending for myself and watching this whole mess unfold that something just wasn't right.

More than 'terrible rushed writing'. If they are up to something big, I think they have the VA's in on it too... as a few of them (Maleshep and Femshep) have alleged that they haven't been contacted about VA stuff... But who knows, if the ending DLC was meant to be done later on then that would make it consistent.

I admit I am honestly a bit surprised that they 're actively decided to do a several month long dev-process ending DLC for free based on fan outcry... And their crazy refusal to actually do what all the same fans that allegedly made them do the DLC want (change the endings)... That just seems a little too odd to be a form of 'damage control'. But on the other hand, maybe they just don't want to ****** off pro-enders/be seen as spineless.

And it's possible that the 'interesting' twitter comments are just PR speech.

But I don't know. Even the endings themselves... For every piece of evidence I find for the IT, I find at least 1 that makes it sound out of the question at this point.

But why the shady answer on IT at PAX? They denounced several rumors of leaked content... And they are up front about not changing the endings... But they shy away from answering IT theory...

At this point, if they do pull an IT theory, it will probably have been the best kept secret in gaming. And it will have the most press coverage everywhere. Bioware is in every major news article with a bad name because of this now... Maybe if they pull an IT theory now with the press still hot on them, all the negative stuff will turn around.

I don't know. Every day I'm on the other side of the fence.

I have not ruled out the possibility that all of us - everyone here - is being totally mindf***ed.

We will see... with this ending DLC, we will see.

Oh, and on the very, very, very off chance that this is a huge Bioware stunt... Well, it will make for quite an interesting sociology project.

Edited by oblique9, 10 April 2012 - 07:17 AM.


#12
KillerHappyFace

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This really does have me puzzled.

Everything else about Bioware's PR since release has made development seem reactionary and "the fans have forced us to change this perfect game; 75 perfect reviews!" But then you have these cryptic tweets from somebody who obviously would know a lot, if not everything, about post-release development.

Maybe he's just overexcited about the Omega DLC? Idk. We're all grasping at straws here. If only somebody would give us even the tiniest honest, concrete answer. It would honestly quell some of the storm of negative sentiment.

Edited by KillerHappyFace, 10 April 2012 - 07:19 AM.


#13
Bill Casey

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Statements from bio-ware in general have been odd and contradictory...
They are playing Three Card Monty with this whole thing...

Edited by Bill Casey, 10 April 2012 - 07:24 AM.


#14
KillerHappyFace

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oblique9 wrote...

I've thought for a while, in the back of my head, ever since playing the ending for myself and watching this whole mess unfold that something just wasn't right.

More than 'terrible rushed writing'. If they are up to something big, I think they have the VA's in on it too... as a few of them (Maleshep and Femshep) have alleged that they haven't been contacted about VA stuff... But who knows, if the ending DLC was meant to be done later on then that would make it consistent.

I admit I am honestly a bit surprised that they 're actively decided to do a several month long dev-process ending DLC for free based on fan outcry... And their crazy refusal to actually do what all the same fans that allegedly made them do the DLC want (change the endings)... That just seems a little too odd to be a form of 'damage control'. But on the other hand, maybe they just don't want to ****** off pro-enders/be seen as spineless.

And it's possible that the 'interesting' twitter comments are just PR speech.

But I don't know. Even the endings themselves... For every piece of evidence I find for the IT, I find at least 1 that makes it sound out of the question at this point.

But why the shady answer on IT at PAX? They denounced several rumors of leaked content... And they are up front about not changing the endings... But they shy away from answering IT theory...

At this point, if they do pull an IT theory, it will probably have been the best kept secret in gaming. And it will have the most press coverage everywhere. Bioware is in every major news article with a bad name because of this now... Maybe if they pull an IT theory now with the press still hot on them, all the negative stuff will turn around.

I don't know. Every day I'm on the other side of the fence.

I have not ruled out the possibility that all of us - everyone here - is being totally mindf***ed.

We will see... with this ending DLC, we will see.

Oh, and on the very, very, very off chance that this is a huge Bioware stunt... Well, it will make for quite an interesting sociology project.


I feel the exact same way. I can't really figure out where I stand.

Some days I feel like abandoning Bioware forever (melodramatic, I know) due to this lost cause; on others I firmly believe in IDT; sometimes I believe IDT is wrong, but the EC has potential.

It sounds sad, but this complete indecisiveness has affected my daily routine slightly. It's been a little difficult to focus on my coursework at times. :blink:

#15
ShadowNinja1129

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KillerHappyFace wrote...

Everything else about Bioware's PR since release has made development seem reactionary and "the fans have forced us to change this perfect game; 75 perfect reviews!" But then you have these cryptic tweets from somebody who obviously would know a lot, if not everything, about post-release development.

Maybe he's just overexcited about the Omega DLC? Idk. We're all grasping at straws here. If only somebody would give us even the tiniest honest, concrete answer. It would honestly quell some of the storm of negative sentiment.


Yeah, this about sums it up. Maybe he is being a bit of a BioWare cheerleader at this point, who knows? At the same time, if the folks at BioWare are as big of a bunch of nerds as we are (and they definitely are, have you read the codex? XD, they know we're too smart to have simple PR speak pull wool over our eyes, and that flashing treats at us (like free multiplayer DLC) isn't going to distract us from the issue at hand. So why all the cryptic statements?

/sigh My brain hurts trying to comprehend why BioWare has been doing this to themselves. Just come clean with us! We're rational people, we promise!

#16
oblique9

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The more I think about it, the more I think we're all getting pwned.

But the stargazer... Damn stargazer scene KILLS, absolutely DESTROYS any hope that this was IT...

I so badly want someone to give me evidence that the Stargazer DOES NOT damn Shep/Crew/Galaxy to the ending they got...

Edited by oblique9, 10 April 2012 - 07:28 AM.


#17
ShadowNinja1129

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KillerHappyFace wrote...

oblique9 wrote...

I've thought for a while, in the back of my head, ever since playing the ending for myself and watching this whole mess unfold that something just wasn't right.

More than 'terrible rushed writing'. If they are up to something big, I think they have the VA's in on it too... as a few of them (Maleshep and Femshep) have alleged that they haven't been contacted about VA stuff... But who knows, if the ending DLC was meant to be done later on then that would make it consistent.

I admit I am honestly a bit surprised that they 're actively decided to do a several month long dev-process ending DLC for free based on fan outcry... And their crazy refusal to actually do what all the same fans that allegedly made them do the DLC want (change the endings)... That just seems a little too odd to be a form of 'damage control'. But on the other hand, maybe they just don't want to ****** off pro-enders/be seen as spineless.

And it's possible that the 'interesting' twitter comments are just PR speech.

But I don't know. Even the endings themselves... For every piece of evidence I find for the IT, I find at least 1 that makes it sound out of the question at this point.

But why the shady answer on IT at PAX? They denounced several rumors of leaked content... And they are up front about not changing the endings... But they shy away from answering IT theory...

At this point, if they do pull an IT theory, it will probably have been the best kept secret in gaming. And it will have the most press coverage everywhere. Bioware is in every major news article with a bad name because of this now... Maybe if they pull an IT theory now with the press still hot on them, all the negative stuff will turn around.

I don't know. Every day I'm on the other side of the fence.

I have not ruled out the possibility that all of us - everyone here - is being totally mindf***ed.

We will see... with this ending DLC, we will see.

Oh, and on the very, very, very off chance that this is a huge Bioware stunt... Well, it will make for quite an interesting sociology project.


I feel the exact same way. I can't really figure out where I stand.

Some days I feel like abandoning Bioware forever (melodramatic, I know) due to this lost cause; on others I firmly believe in IDT; sometimes I believe IDT is wrong, but the EC has potential.

It sounds sad, but this complete indecisiveness has affected my daily routine slightly. It's been a little difficult to focus on my coursework at times. :blink:


XD this and this. I definitely share your pain oblique9, and I know I've spent more time than I should reading forum posts, bouncing back and forth with my opinion on the current situation, and researching PAX/reviews/analysis videos on ME3's endings when I should've been coding or working on my circuit designs . . .

#18
oblique9

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KillerHappyFace wrote...

oblique9 wrote...

I've thought for a while, in the back of my head, ever since playing the ending for myself and watching this whole mess unfold that something just wasn't right.

More than 'terrible rushed writing'. If they are up to something big, I think they have the VA's in on it too... as a few of them (Maleshep and Femshep) have alleged that they haven't been contacted about VA stuff... But who knows, if the ending DLC was meant to be done later on then that would make it consistent.

I admit I am honestly a bit surprised that they 're actively decided to do a several month long dev-process ending DLC for free based on fan outcry... And their crazy refusal to actually do what all the same fans that allegedly made them do the DLC want (change the endings)... That just seems a little too odd to be a form of 'damage control'. But on the other hand, maybe they just don't want to ****** off pro-enders/be seen as spineless.

And it's possible that the 'interesting' twitter comments are just PR speech.

But I don't know. Even the endings themselves... For every piece of evidence I find for the IT, I find at least 1 that makes it sound out of the question at this point.

But why the shady answer on IT at PAX? They denounced several rumors of leaked content... And they are up front about not changing the endings... But they shy away from answering IT theory...

At this point, if they do pull an IT theory, it will probably have been the best kept secret in gaming. And it will have the most press coverage everywhere. Bioware is in every major news article with a bad name because of this now... Maybe if they pull an IT theory now with the press still hot on them, all the negative stuff will turn around.

I don't know. Every day I'm on the other side of the fence.

I have not ruled out the possibility that all of us - everyone here - is being totally mindf***ed.

We will see... with this ending DLC, we will see.

Oh, and on the very, very, very off chance that this is a huge Bioware stunt... Well, it will make for quite an interesting sociology project.


I feel the exact same way. I can't really figure out where I stand.

Some days I feel like abandoning Bioware forever (melodramatic, I know) due to this lost cause; on others I firmly believe in IDT; sometimes I believe IDT is wrong, but the EC has potential.

It sounds sad, but this complete indecisiveness has affected my daily routine slightly. It's been a little difficult to focus on my coursework at times. :blink:


It's funny you should say that. I have an assignment due at 8AM and its 3:30 AM here now, and I've been on the forums for hours.

I'm also hearing voices in my head. I hear my roomates thoughts, and I think I hear buzzing... No, that's my computer speakers.... I don't have computer speakers... I... I don't... know anything anymore...

#19
ShadowNinja1129

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oblique9 wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I think we're all getting pwned.

But the stargazer... Damn stargazer scene KILLS, absolutely DESTROYS any hope that this was IT...

I so badly want someone to give me evidence that the Stargazer DOES NOT damn Shep/Crew/Galaxy to the ending they got...


Well, Buzz does end that little scene with "Okay, one more story . . ."

Now, this could've just been an incredibly shameless plug for the little "BUY MOAR DLC BECAUSE MOAR" menu that popped up afterward (inexcusable in my opinion regardless of the rest of this controversy), but unless grandpa is extremely senile (Buzz is not a voice actor, don't be mean here, he sounded about as forced on 30 Rock) I would presume that the "one more story" would've followed sequentially.

Weak speculation at best, I know. That scene is honestly really weird and doesn't fit into anything (other than a space pioneer we know talking about space and stuff), current ending or IDT ending.

#20
oblique9

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One more story... And Bioware had stated before that they were likely doing any new ME games BEFORE Shepards story arc...

One more story... The Normandy comes back to Earth to pick up Shepard before re-stranding itself on the same planet? I just don't know.

#21
liggy002

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ShadowNinja1129 wrote...

Hello BSN, BioWare, and Mr. Gamble.

Indulge me for a bit here, because I'm looking for a little clarity concerning some of Michael Gamble's statements over the past few weeks. This isn't a cold attempt to make some conspiracy theory attack or anything, I'm just genuinely confused based on some of the correspondence I've seen. And please, forumites, don't just pat me on the head and tell me its all PR speak, because I feel like that's a cop-out from addressing the inconsistencies here.

First, we all remember Mr. Gamble's tweet two days after ME3 hit the shelves:

"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you guys knew all the stuff we are planning, you'd, we'll[sic] - hold onto your copy of me3 forever."

This fueled a lot of speculation, especially for those arguing for IDT. This statement alone isn't confusing on its own merits, it only gets curious when we consider some of the more recent communications.

Mr. Gamble very recently tweeted that the "Extended Cut DLC" was one of the things he alluded to in the above tweet. Here's the thing: The Extended Cut DLC has been painted as a response to all of the negative fan feedback received over the endings as they currently stand. Mr. Gamble even said at PAX that they didn't realise there would be a huge demand for clarity and closure in the endings.

If this is the case, how could you have alluded to that just two days after the game's release?

Even if BioWare had formally began considering the idea of making an Extended Cut DLC based on the very early and limited fan feedback that was on the forums the first two days after ME3's release, the phrase "planning" implies that the DLC would already have been in the works, BEFORE the fans complained about the ending. BioWare also released a statement saying that the DLC schedule was being reprioritized to account for the fans desire for clarity and closure. This also implies that the Extended Cut DLC was already in the works and got promoted to top priority when the fan backlash heightened.

Another interesting piece of food for thought: Many folks have argued for and against IDT using data from the Final Hours app ("Lots of speculation" page is often used as the criticism for IDT and "Cut gameplay section with Shepard falling under full Reaper control" is often used as the support for IDT). Honestly, the Final Hours app is pretty inconclusive as far as answering the question "Is IDT true?"

The PAX panel was asked whether IDT was true or not, and if I remember correctly Michael Gamble was the one who responded, saying that BioWare didn't want to comment for or against IDT because they wanted the Extended Cut DLC to "speak for itself." Historically, someone only pulls a "I will neither confirm or deny" when the topic in question is still on the table. I'm not trying to assert that BioWare's reluctance to comment on IDT makes it true, I'm just saying that BioWare hasn't ruled out the possibility either.

So my question for you, Mr. Gamble, is this: Did BioWare have this Extended Cut DLC planned before the fan backlash or not? Because if they did, do the endings have some yet-to-be-revealed secret that implies "all is not as it seems," whether that be IDT or some other crazy awesome thing we haven't even thought of (because if that was the plan all along, the Extended Cut wouldn't be "changing" the ending to IDT/something else, as that was what the ending alluded to the whole time)? Or did time and budget just get in the way and force BioWare to release the complete ending at a later date? Would that be part of some crafty plan to kill used game sales (Sorry, I said I wasn't going to go conspiracy theory, so I'll stop there)?

If BioWare didn't have the Extended Cut DLC planned when you made your first tweet, WHY U NO MAKE SENSE? Call me naive, but I don't want to write this off as simple "bungled PR" or some other B.S. I do honestly believe that you, Mr. Gamble, and BioWare as a whole are a team of incredible, creative individuals who are listening to your fans and doing your best to provide at least some feedback in the midst of the s**tstorm we've put you in. Would it be nice if BioWare was engaging in a more open dialogue with the fanbase? Yes, but I can understand your reluctance reading a lot of the not-so-"cool and collected" fan backlash.

I've seen you comment on these forums before, Mr. Gamble, and I hope my questions and confusions have come across as reasonable and worth responding to. If I had a twitter I'd just ask you this there, but since I don't this is the best place I can come up with.


Honestly, I wouldn't even bother trying to ask him these things.  He won't respond.  I've tweeted multiple times, along with rest of Bioware's team, asking them about why Harbinger wasn't in the game and whether there would be gameplay in the extended DLC.  No response there.  I'm sure that they are being tight lipped about these things for a reason.  Otherwise, why not just answer me?

#22
Bill Casey

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I wonder if the next story Buzz Aldrin tells that kid will also contain rampant swearing, unspeakable body horror abominations and hot human on alien sex...

Edited by Bill Casey, 10 April 2012 - 07:44 AM.


#23
Dendio1

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Redoing the endings would probably take longer than a few months. Clarification is probably the only reasonable option at this point

#24
Pandaman102

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So you're saying the Bioware lore has been contradicted by recent statements? Hogwash, they've never done such a thing in their long history.

Not since being founded by Genghis Khan.

In Abu Dhabi.

On the year 1156 B.C.

#25
oblique9

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 Also, with the DLC being free, I wouldn't imagine they'd be all too worried with telling people "no, no gameplay, no indoc, no anything". It's not like they would make any less money by pissing us off now or later... Well.. I wouldn't imagine they would anyway...

If they did pull something like IT, their PR statements would all be consistent with it as far as I know...

I mean:
They say no new endings. That would be correct.
They say no alternate endings. Technically, that would also be correct.
They say they are 'creating additional content' to bring 'closure and clarity'. Also, technically accurate (if not completely understating their endeavors if IT were true...)
They allude to "much, much more" in their tweets (unoffical blah blah I know).


And then Stargazer. Crap. Buzzkill. No pun intended.