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Bioware: clear, official answers on Shadow Strike damage?


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#1
rmccowen

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So I've been looking around at specs for the Shadow on BSN, and as a result I'm thoroughly confused. The in-game feedback reports that Shadow Strike damage is increased by effects that increase melee damage, as well as by effects that increase power damage.

But in-game testing by various forum posters has resulted in the following hypotheses:
 * Shadow Strike doesn't benefit from power increases at all; the character builder is lying, as it does with Ultralight Materials for the SMG.
 * Shadow Strike does benefit from power-damage bonuses, but only for the damage from Evo 3.
 * Shadow Strike somehow benefits twice from damage bonuses in Tactical Cloak (not including damage from Evo 4, which is counted only once).
 * Shadow Strike uses the Shadow's heavy melee damage as the base, making the displayed power damage irrelevant.
 * Sword Mastery Evo 5 is bugged, and adds no damage to Shadow Strike (but Evo 6 works normally).

The evidence appears contradictory, even more so since multiple combinations of the above seem to fit the way the Shadow works in play.

This is, to put it mildly, important information for anyone who's trying to build or play a Shadow. Is it possible to get some official clarification on what should provide damage bonuses to Shadow Strike, as well as what currently does?

Edited by rmccowen, 01 August 2012 - 04:54 PM.


#2
rmccowen

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Bump for FTL.

#3
rockthatwood

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if there is anything i have learned on this forum, it's that Bioware will ignore any request for information you have. I've inquired about keeping credits/xp if you get disconnected and I've inquired about why ultra-rare/rare weapons keep their rarity status even after they have been nerf'd. And I directly address them just like you did. So, don't expect an answer.

#4
hippojoe

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rockthatwood wrote...

if there is anything i have learned on this forum, it's that Bioware will ignore any request for information you have. I've inquired about keeping credits/xp if you get disconnected and I've inquired about why ultra-rare/rare weapons keep their rarity status even after they have been nerf'd. And I directly address them just like you did. So, don't expect an answer.


they have repsonded several times to game mechanic related questions.

#5
rmccowen

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hippojoe wrote...

they have repsonded several times to game mechanic related questions.


They have indeed. Also, regardless of how slim the possibility of an answer is, not asking the question at all means definitely no answer.

#6
Micah3sixty

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SS does benefit from the first 5 ranks of melee/fitness bonuses, and also benefits from power damage bonuses from N7 passive. You can max SS damage at 1800 with the build I linked in my signature. That is before melee bonus and TC damage/melee bonus. In Gold, you can outright kill in one SS everything but armor/barrier enemies along with hunters. The rest all go down in one hit.

#7
dnapayne

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The shadow strike is not affected by power bonuses.

The passive tree is best left alone 6/6/6/0/6

Make sure to put electric slash with radius and range. And on your fitness use the fire damage for the sword. The fire damage on rank 6 on fitness is pivotal.  Rips through armor a lot faster.  It should not be skipped.

For cloak use duration, recharge and bonus power.  You can use SS twice under cloak and with adrelane equiped you can get your a** away.

Best setup on the Shadow - is a Predator or whatever pistol keeps your recharge at 200% modded with melee stunner and scope.

Spec your whole fitness tree in melee and use the Juggernaut Shield gear to get more shields and melee damage. Also use strength III from your weapon equipment and adrenaline III to runaway faster.

Edited by dnapayne, 01 August 2012 - 06:00 PM.


#8
rockthatwood

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hippojoe wrote...

rockthatwood wrote...

if there is anything i have learned on this forum, it's that Bioware will ignore any request for information you have. I've inquired about keeping credits/xp if you get disconnected and I've inquired about why ultra-rare/rare weapons keep their rarity status even after they have been nerf'd. And I directly address them just like you did. So, don't expect an answer.


they have repsonded several times to game mechanic related questions.




In the past month, I've seen zero answers to MP questions. I've seen them comment on how an extraction token would be cool, but that's it.

#9
Huttj509

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hippojoe wrote...

rockthatwood wrote...

if there is anything i have learned on this forum, it's that Bioware will ignore any request for information you have. I've inquired about keeping credits/xp if you get disconnected and I've inquired about why ultra-rare/rare weapons keep their rarity status even after they have been nerf'd. And I directly address them just like you did. So, don't expect an answer.


they have repsonded several times to game mechanic related questions.




Many of those times have been regarding how things are intended to work.  Design choices can be answered fairly easily (a recent flurry of interesting info on the AI, for example).  And that would help.

A number of concerns, however, are regarding possible bugs in the system.  It seems that the general policy has been to not officially acknowledge bugs until they've been verified and a fix is in the pipes.  Note that AI design info is something a dev can respond to from home, when not in the office (as was the case).  Something that requires going into the system and verifying that each tweak that's supposed to affect SS damage actually IS?  Can't really be done during a developer's freetime at home.

I'd not be surprised if we got a blanket response of if SS was supposed to be affected by power damage, etc, but not much in the way of if it currently IS.

Edit:  @Rockthatwood social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/13287526&lf=8  created 9 days ago.  In depth responses started ~6 days ago.  There can indeed be a lag as knowledge of the question trickles to someone who has the time and knowledge to answer it.  Someone might have the time, but only the knowledge to act as a go-between for the forums and the developers who work(ed) on that particular part.  Not as useful.  Someone might have the knowledge, but is too busy to field the various questions on a topic and give satisfactory answers.

Edited by Huttj509, 01 August 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#10
dnapayne

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rockthatwood wrote...

hippojoe wrote...

rockthatwood wrote...

if there is anything i have learned on this forum, it's that Bioware will ignore any request for information you have. I've inquired about keeping credits/xp if you get disconnected and I've inquired about why ultra-rare/rare weapons keep their rarity status even after they have been nerf'd. And I directly address them just like you did. So, don't expect an answer.


they have repsonded several times to game mechanic related questions.




In the past month, I've seen zero answers to MP questions. I've seen them comment on how an extraction token would be cool, but that's it.


I friend all the moderators and devs on this site so that I can keep up to date on issues that they have responded too.  Also to allow me to message them so that I can quick responses to questions that I have.  



Message 
Eric Fagnan and usually he'll respond within 2 days.  But most of the time I get responses within a few hours from most of the site managers and devs.

http://social.bioware.com/1112746

#11
Gamemako

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There is an old thread about Sword Master's final bonus not affecting Shadow Strike. Go find that thread. In it you will find the following details:

-Shadow Strike IS AFFECTED BY POWER DAMAGE. According to devs, it should be affected by melee damage, so this is probably a bug.
-Shadow Strike IS AFFECTED BY MELEE DAMAGE. This is intentional, obviously.
-Shadow Strike's electrical damage IS MULTIPLICATIVE, BASED ON THE TOTAL DAMAGE FROM THE STRIKE.
-Shadow Strike's electrical damage CAN BE DETONATED WITH ELECTRIC SLASH.
-Shadow Strike GETS DOUBLE DAMAGE BONUS FROM TACTICAL CLOAK. This is because the damage bonus is applied twice, first to the power bonus (likely a bug) and second to the melee bonus (intended). The rank 5 melee damage bonus from cloak is applied only once!
-Shadow Strike DOES NOT BENEFIT FROM RANK 6 OF SWORD MASTERY. This is also probably a bug.
-Shadow Strike DOES BENEFIT FROM RANK 5 OF SWORD MASTERY. Rank 5 works just fine and procs based on Shadow Strike kills -- you kill with Shadow Strike, the bonus applies for the next 20 seconds.
-Shadow Strike DEALS THE DAMAGE YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN. Discrepancies from this are based on other bonuses (such as mods and tactical cloak) that you do not see there. Electrical damage is not included but is 40% of the total damage added on top.

tyhw and I tested the skill extensively in the balance group and have determined all of these things to be the case.

Unless you intend to use heavy melee extensively, you should go 6/6/6/3/5 because the final bonus does not apply at all to Shadow Strike.

Edited by Gamemako, 01 August 2012 - 06:25 PM.


#12
megabeast37215

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The final bonus doesn't apply... that's true... BUT it does apply to the heavy melee.

Use shadow strike, follow up with heavy melee... devastating.

#13
Gamemako

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megabeast37215 wrote...

The final bonus doesn't apply... that's true... BUT it does apply to the heavy melee.

Use shadow strike, follow up with heavy melee... devastating.


Yep. It applies to heavy melees as expected, but does not apply to Shadow Strike. Damn shame, too, because I like having a flaming sword. :devil:

#14
dnapayne

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Gamemako wrote...

There is an old thread about Sword Master's final bonus not affecting Shadow Strike. Go find that thread. In it you will find the following details:

-Shadow Strike IS AFFECTED BY POWER DAMAGE. According to devs, it should be affected by melee damage, so this is probably a bug.
-Shadow Strike IS AFFECTED BY MELEE DAMAGE. This is intentional, obviously.
-Shadow Strike's electrical damage IS MULTIPLICATIVE, BASED ON THE TOTAL DAMAGE FROM THE STRIKE.
-Shadow Strike's electrical damage CAN BE DETONATED WITH ELECTRIC SLASH.
-Shadow Strike GETS DOUBLE DAMAGE BONUS FROM TACTICAL CLOAK. This is because the damage bonus is applied twice, first to the power bonus (likely a bug) and second to the melee bonus (intended). The rank 5 melee damage bonus from cloak is applied only once!
-Shadow Strike DOES NOT BENEFIT FROM RANK 6 OF SWORD MASTERY. This is also probably a bug.
-Shadow Strike DOES BENEFIT FROM RANK 5 OF SWORD MASTERY. Rank 5 works just fine and procs based on Shadow Strike kills -- you kill with Shadow Strike, the bonus applies for the next 20 seconds.
-Shadow Strike DEALS THE DAMAGE YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN. Discrepancies from this are based on other bonuses (such as mods and tactical cloak) that you do not see there. Electrical damage is not included but is 40% of the total damage added on top.

tyhw and I tested the skill extensively in the balance group and have determined all of these things to be the case.

Unless you intend to use heavy melee extensively, you should go 6/6/6/3/5 because the final bonus does not apply at all to Shadow Strike.


Thank you for this.

I'll have to try it out.

All I know is with the above build I suggested Gold is like bronze for me with my shadow.  I rip through everything. And with brutes they take 2 shadows strikes under cloak and a heavy melee to take one out on gold. 

#15
rmccowen

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Gamemako wrote...

There is an old thread about Sword Master's final bonus not affecting Shadow Strike. Go find that thread. In it you will find the following details...

I've read everything Google and the forum search can locate, but the whole situation is a tangled mess of claims and counter-claims. I started this thread hoping for some blue-colored words on the subject.

I agree with the poster upthread who pointed out that BioWare seems to have a policy against acknowledging bugs on the forums, but I figured it was at least worth the time to ask.

#16
Gamemako

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rmccowen wrote...

I've read everything Google and the forum search can locate, but the whole situation is a tangled mess of claims and counter-claims. I started this thread hoping for some blue-colored words on the subject.


Yeah, that is true. There's always a ton of misinformation to go around. Nevertheless, I can provide you with the tests used to test each of the things from my post if you want to confirm them for yourself. Otherwise, you can just trust that I'm not lying to you. :P

#17
Micah3sixty

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dnapayne wrote...

The shadow strike is not affected by power bonuses.

The passive tree is best left alone 6/6/6/0/6

Make sure to put electric slash with radius and range. And on your fitness use the fire damage for the sword. The fire damage on rank 6 on fitness is pivotal.  Rips through armor a lot faster.  It should not be skipped.

For cloak use duration, recharge and bonus power.  You can use SS twice under cloak and with adrelane equiped you can get your a** away.

Best setup on the Shadow - is a Predator or whatever pistol keeps your recharge at 200% modded with melee stunner and scope.

Spec your whole fitness tree in melee and use the Juggernaut Shield gear to get more shields and melee damage. Also use strength III from your weapon equipment and adrenaline III to runaway faster.


In-game testing has proven that it does boost SS, so until/unless BW patches the passive power bonuses, you can take an even stronger SS into your game.  Also, weapon strength enhancer consumables don't apply to SS, only melee so you can save on that consumable if you want as well.  At least I dont' notice any difference with/without them.

#18
Gamemako

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Micah3sixty wrote...

Also, weapon strength enhancer consumables don't apply to SS, only melee so you can save on that consumable if you want as well.  At least I dont' notice any difference with/without them.


Weapon mod definitely does apply, confirmed in tyhw's tests. Not certain about consumables; that was where we left off. However, gear does apply (and is affected by the melee weapon mod's multiplicative bonus), so I would be very surprised if consumables didn't apply.

#19
rmccowen

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Gamemako wrote...

rmccowen wrote...

I've read everything Google and the forum search can locate, but the whole situation is a tangled mess of claims and counter-claims. I started this thread hoping for some blue-colored words on the subject.


Yeah, that is true. There's always a ton of misinformation to go around. Nevertheless, I can provide you with the tests used to test each of the things from my post if you want to confirm them for yourself. Otherwise, you can just trust that I'm not lying to you. :P

I do, mostly because I can't come up with another explanation for some of the OHKOs I'm seeing...

Also, it helps that you can write in complete sentences, which is an underused skill on BSN generally.