Solas as mentor in DA4!

Yeah I'm being silly.  The only way that would work is if somehow midway through the game he's no longer the villain of the scenario.  I have the feeling that after DA4 he's going to be dead or at least indisposed/never appearing in game again, and that's a shame because of all the lore info he could share.

More seriously, I would love to have an Avvar companion.  No one else enjoyed chilling out with Thane Svarah Sun-Hair?  I'm aware that the Jaws of Hakkon DLC wasn't everyone's favorite, but I loved the lore it added.  So much lore!  Avvar are quite interesting culturally, so if one were willing to accompany us outside of the Frostbacks, I'd welcome his or her aid.

And we need a mabari.  I know we're going to Tevinter.  I don't care.  I'm still Fereldan at heart.  Gimme my puppy!  And if I cannot have a dog, then give me a cat.

I can't think of any characters I'd just absolutely have to have return in DA4.  Dorian seems likely.  I don't think we're going to see Varric again, though.  Cassandra, Vivienne, and Leliana all appear to be spoken for since they could be Divine and the only reason the Divine would appear is for diplomatic reasons.  More likely our new spymaster will be Charter or Lace Harding.

I would like to have a double agent or even an outright infiltrating spy in our party, probably Solas's agent.  Even if you go to great lengths to avoid spies coming aboard, you can fail or you can recruit the wrong person.  It'd make for a good story to see their moral dilemma and inner struggles play out as they decided who their loyalty ultimately belonged to.  Better hope you treated them well and earned their respect, or they'll turn on you in a critical moment...

Way to just bluntly dismiss the theory out-of-hand.

 

I know it hasn't been directly declared, but I think there have been some hints that it might have been possible (I'd list them, except I think you'd just bluntly dismiss those out-of-hand too, so I'm not going to bother typing it out), and I'm not going to rule it out as a possibility until it has been directly disproven. 

 

EDIT: Actually, you know what? I wanted to address this.

 

 

 

 

a) Cole never truly loses his ability to hear people's thoughts or emotions, it just becomes fainter and weaker.

 

b ) Well, there you go. Maybe Cole's situation somewhat mirrors the ancient elves'?

 

Cole has strong empathic/telepathic abilities, but it weakens as he becomes more human. Ancient elves were "intrinsically tied to the Fade" not completely unlike spirits until the Veil went up and they were cut off from the Fade and became more "human-like" (started aging, dying, could be non-mages, lost their "conscious connection to the Fade" - Solas's words), etc. Maybe before the Veil, back when ancient elves were still more spirit-like before they lost their connection to the Fade and became more human-like, they could have had minor telepatic/empathic abilities until they lost it much like how spirit-like Cole can strongly hear/sense people's thoughts/emotions but then loses the ability when he becomes more spirit-like.

 

And if memory serves, Cole never truly loses his ab

 

 

You yours

For starters, please de-format because it's really hard to read your text without highlighting it!  (Not trying to pick a fight, and wasn't earlier either.  But it hurts my eyes trying to read formatted text... I'm using the dark format and you're apparently using the default white format.)

You just pointed out that Cole's ability fades over time.  It probably will go away entirely someday, although Cole is an empathetic creature by nature.  He's compassion.  He will always care and probably he'll always be good at reading people even if he can't feel out what's making them upset.  But it's also true that, as I pointed out, he only seems to hear you if you need compassion.  If you are hurting, or angry, or etc. he'll notice.  If you were perfectly happy, he would not know it because you don't need compassion.  That seems to be true of most spirits--they can get into your head, but only if there's something there for them to get.  A desire demon can figure out what you want.  A rage demon can prey upon your anger.  Vengeance knows when you want a come-uppance.  Pride knows all too well every little thing you think makes you "the best."  If they hear other things, they seem to be pretty good at ignoring them.

It's also very much the case that, even in Solas's opinion, Cole is unique.  There may have been spirits, or elves, like him in the past, but I don't think Solas is lying when he calls Cole unique.  And if Cole is unique, that means there's no other spirit like him, nor has there been in Solas's extensive experience.  It's pretty clear that spirits turned into elves and elves might have been able to return to being spirits prior to the Veil, but even among those, Cole is somehow unique.  We don't know how or why or if the only reason he's particularly special is because of the time and place he appeared in, or because he chose a human rather than elven form.

If ancient elves had a similar ability, it'd work similarly.  They couldn't just immediately know one another's sexual preference etc. without some other indication, because they would only know thoughts/emotions pertaining to their spirit.  Freedom would only know the thoughts and emotions of those who aren't free, or those who are enjoying freedom.  Compassion only knows when people are hurting, or helping others who are hurting.  Joy would only know when you're joyful or in need of a good dose of happiness. And so forth and so on.

So even if what you're suggesting is the case (my personal opinion is that it isn't, but hey, I could be wrong), the ability would be limited.  You can argue that elves are more complicated than just spirits, but the further away from spirits you get, the closer you get to human.  The complexity of your own thoughts might keep you from hearing those of others.  I'm not sure how it's supposed to work. Even plain old "spirits" can be complicated, as we've seen.  A spirit of wisdom can still feel love and become friends.  They aren't limited to only feeling the emotions or ideals that they represent, but yet they can only sense those ideas or emotions or the lack thereof in others.  And Solas seems to think that spirits should embody emotions, not work through them.

It's complicated.  There probably were signs about what was going on in a person's mind if only because the Fade and the waking world were connected, but that would have less to do with "elves" and more to do with how the reality of Thedas was at that point.  Spirits were as common as grass, Solas tells us--and spirits reflect people's emotional states.  So while I don't think elves were mind-readers, and I do think you'd actually need to talk to a potential partner before finding out their sexual preferences (if they had such preferences--maybe older, more spirit-like elves didn't?  We don't know.), I guess it'd be pretty easy to know if someone--even a human--were happy, angry, or stressed out based on how the spirits around them were reacting and what kind of spirits were hanging out in the area.

... Which now that I think of it, would make the Game in Orlais ridiculously difficult.  Everyone might not know what you were thinking, but they'd definitely know how you felt about it when angry little wisps started floating around you.

Okay I'm getting tired and not able to focus on one topic at a time...

Long post short, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you couldn't be right anyway.  I just see things differently than you do, and interpret the available info in different ways.  I don't come here to argue, although I'll happily debate with you if I disagree, as long as things stay civil.  Discussions about lore are a large part of what makes this thread interesting for me.

Way to just bluntly dismiss the theory out-of-hand.

 

I know it hasn't been directly declared, but I think there have been some hints that it might have been possible, and I'm not going to rule it out as a possility until it has been directly disproven. 

I didn't bluntly dismiss it.  I said, "I don't think."  It is my opinion.  I'm pretty sure that they weren't telepathic or telempathic.  They had magic, which they might have used to share emotions or thoughts, and did, in the form of storing it in books or other magically imbued items.  But I don't think they randomly had ambient thoughts floating around.  Reading minds is only possible for spirits, and then only when it pertains to whatever that spirit represents.  Take Cole for instance.  He hears thoughts, yes--but from what I understand, he only hears what he needs to hear.  If you're not hurting/in need of compassion, he can't hear you.  So although elves came from spirits and likely contain spirits, even if they did sense thoughts and emotions that weren't directly imbued into a magical item etc, they'd only be able to do so for whatever thoughts and emotions pertained to their particular spirit.  Not everything.

I've seen this done in fanfic with emotions.  I think it's probably not canon, but that's my opinion.  We don't know what precisely was taken away from the elves, but it appears to pertain to whatever connected them to the Fade and their spirit-selves.  Solas says they lost everything, including themselves.  My guess is that they lost something far more profound than the ability to radiate emotions.  It's almost like Solas doesn't think modern Thedosians even have spirits, except that he remarks about Lavellan's, so she must, and if she does, then everyone else does too.

Like you said Asari held their own on the front lines BEFORE they had to fight aliens.

 

The introduction of Krogan and Turians made em realize others are optimized for head to head warfare.  Krogans did the bulk of the fighting in Rachni Wars.

 

Turians were the muscle during the Krogan Rebellions.  Asari knew better and focused on sabotage missions instead.

Be that as it may, the fact that they ever did, and did so capably enough to get to the point they are at, should mean they are at least as capable as humans.  They might not be a match for the more physical krogan or turian people, but... still.  They had to do these things themselves for centuries.  It's silly to say they are just too frail, especially since they're sturdier than salarians and about on par with humans--presumably with the same access to the genetic and cybernetic improvements that human soldiers have available to them.

It's entirely possible that the elven language is rather vague - at least in writing - because they used memories or images rather than words.  Like what we see in the Vir Dirthara and other places in Trespasser.  You get images/memories and feelings as opposed to actual writing which would kind of make sense if elves did in fact come from spirits who took on physical bodies.

The problem with that theory is that they did in fact develop a written language that coincided with their spoken one.

I think you're partly right, though.  They did imbue thoughts/emotions/images into their writing and books.  But they still had a written language, even though there may not have been much need for it.  They had a spoken language for obvious reasons:  they weren't spirits anymore and had to communicate in some way.

As for why have a written language... maybe they needed a way of communicating without emotion attached.  Or maybe they wanted their writing to be vague and meandering.  Or maybe everyone just knew what the words meant in a certain order/context/etc. and, being immortal, they thought that everyone always would know and nothing would change.

Point being if they primarily communicated via stored memories/thoughts/feelings/sensory input, then the written word would hardly be necessary at all.  When we see the stored memories/sensations, they usually don't include written words at all.  You'd think that they'd use the two in conjunction, but that doesn't seem to have happened often if at all.  Maybe the further from being spirits they were, the more they had to rely on written words?  But that doesn't make sense either since even the Inquisitor, regardless of race, can "read" the books in the Fade even though they lack any words.

Maybe when we next encounter Solas, we need to demand an elven history lesson and an explanation of why elves used written language when they could just store entire experiences and thoughts directly to be shared via magic. Or maybe that was difficult to do, and writing was therefore a necessity...

I have no idea.

I don't think the elves were ever telepathic/empathic.  That's reading something into lore that hasn't been declared.  They were more spirit-like, but if Cole becomes human, he eventually stops hearing people's thoughts, from what I understand.  The only way they shared their thoughts/emotions directly was via magical means.  Now could they have used such means to inform people about their preferences etc?  Sure.   But I don't think mind-reading happened.  That is something only possible with blood magic.  Or if you're a spirit, apparently.

If we get a Turian squaddie, it should be someone unique.

 

A Turian Cabal.

 

Simply put humans and turian have tons of overlap in combat.  They serve similar roles to humans but with better tech and lesser biotics.

 

Otherwise I think a Turian can wait until the next game.

 

They got tons of airtime in the trilogy and Garrus was with us for everything.  Turians were well represented.

If you think turians are so much lesser as biotics than humans, you're forgetting the Turian Cabalist in multiplayer.  She was ridiculous with her poisonous biotic dash.  Really fun to play, but really overpowered.

Turian biotics undergo highly specialized training, and serve in their own units.  They probably use their abilities differently from humans, but that wouldn't make them less powerful.  There's a reason non-biotic turians fear the cabals.

Yes, screw the Asari.

 

They specifically admit that Asari aren't the best for the frontlines.  Other races are better for trekking into the unknown.

It's strange that asari are made out to be so much weaker/unsuitable for front line combat.  I know they are all biotic, but considering they're all female and monogendered and that's all they ever had on their planet, well... There wouldn't ever have been division of labor between genders.  There were no male asari to chop wood, till the soil, hunt the game, etc. that we normally attribute as "male" tasks, even if women did participate in said tasks (whether or not they did so on a regular basis).  There were no male asari to serve as soldiers to spare the female asari for childbearing, nor did any male asari take over the tasks of construction work or sewage work or become welders or electricians.  The only asari there ever were, are asari.  So actually I'd expect them to be perfectly capable of doing anything they need to, and yet... we're told that they aren't.  Biotics can only go so far; I doubt they have the finesse to use biotics to do every single task ever.  So it's actually surprising that they aren't a bit bulkier/more muscular in build, and smaller-chested (sorry guys but boobs are often a hindrance if you're trying to do physical labor, and surely plenty of asari need to!). And then also take into consideration that not every asari is going to be equal in terms of her biotic ability!

I'm not declaring women incapable of doing these tasks, but rather I'm saying the asari definitely had to, prior to encountering any other race--and they encountered salarians first as I recall, so how did that change anything???  Yet we're presented with them as being unsuited to front line combat... despite centuries of having had to do all of these things that require heavy physical labor, and fighting in the front lines of their own wars before they ever encountered anyone else in the galaxy.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It's really strange and it really makes it clear that asari weren't thought out enough beyond being "blue space babes" before they were implemented.  I kind of feel the same about how fragile the salarians are, for that matter.  Who's doing their heavy labor if no one seems capable of it?

Yeah, yeah.  I know.  Brass is over here overthinking things again...

Not interested in romancing any asari at all, personally, but that aside, I don't know if this one will even be an option.

People are saying she looks mannish/has eyebrows she shouldn't/etc.  I think she looks like a teenager or younger.  If people don't find a child attractive, that's a good thing.  She might be Mass Effect: Andromeda's version of Mission Vao (although she probably won't share 100% that personality).  Why we would have a child on our crew, I don't know.  For all we know, she could be the child of an actual crew member, or even just an NPC we'll deal with in a quest.  Of course even if she is a child or teenager by asari standards, she still might be 50-60 years old.

Now, she probably does have some important role regardless of her age and crew status, because otherwise her model might not be finished yet.  But, I might also be wrong because they could finish the less important characters before they finish polishing the ones we're going to be traveling everywhere with.

It's important to note that we're probably going to have a bigger ship, and if our ship is our hub we may have various NPCs to interact with aboard said ship.  As a matter of fact, since we're the ones going out and creating colonies for people to live in, it makes sense that our ship is where all of our NPCs will be.

Well, Mass Effect went past that premise even before ME1's timeframe. Your first mission is on one of humanity's oldest colonies (roughly 30 years old, I think?).

 

Andromeda's premise seems to be that humanity, along with at least some of the other 10 races, are indeed colonizing outside the Milky Way. (I assume they say "new home for humanity" b/c the youtube video is targeted at humans, not as an in-universe thing.) But I don't see any reason this has to be a bad thing. Nothing says you have to be jerks to the races you encounter. Of course, its a story, so there's gonna be first contact drama. I do hope they don't shoehorn us into the "you think you own whatever land you land on", "evil" colonizer role. I mean, for one thing, I'm 99% certain that we're gonna be more refugees who plan on settling where we end up, anyway, than straight up colonizers. There's no mal intent. We're just running from something. And maybe some of the guys we meet are warring, aggressive jerks who conquer their neighbors and we have to defend ourselves, rather than be able to make a peaceful first contact. That happened in real life fairly often, too, after all.

On the upside, even in the previous games, sapient life was far more rare than plain old life.  So there are likely plenty of worlds that are inhabited by less intelligent species.  You could argue that it's still not right to disrupt these ecosystems.  The alternative is terraforming, but we don't know what kind of resources we'd have available to do so, without first colonizing worlds that are already suitable for habitation.

Conflict, however, might arise if humanity went to a world that someone else had already staked out for colonization.  Someone native to the Andromeda galaxy, specifically...

Hm.  I wonder if we'll encounter similar situations in the Dragon Age franchise in the future, if we ever cross the sea?  It appears that Thedas is located in the southern hemisphere, since the further south you go, the colder it gets--assuming, of course, that it's at least roughly spherical and a planet.  It might be neither.  There's a good chance there are continents both in the northern hemisphere and on the opposite side of the globe from Thedas, since the east and west ends of the map don't wrap around to meet one another.  As such, there's a chance for meeting new races overseas, as well as the same races living in entirely different cultures.  We might go overseas to colonize or explore only to find that the land is filled with tribal Avvar-like elves in a region with no Veil separating the Fade and the waking world...

... Now I really want to know what else exists in the Dragon Age universe.

This person put together a pretty good post on it a while ago:

 

http://swevani.tumbl...-project-elvhen

 

So, basically, he wrote his version of Elvhen to be very unfriendly to QUILTBAG people, asexuals and aromantics in particular, (possibly) creeps on teenagers, and to put it more bluntly now that I'm thinking about it more, is also a sanctimonious prick regardless of anything else. 

 

ETA: It looks like a lot of the linked posts have been deleted, jsyk.

Weird.  Especially when the developers themselves have indicated that the elves didn't even have a word for "gay" or "lesbian" because... those preferences were just normal to them.

Project Elven guy is creepy and I agree, the language doesn't fit. I have used it a few times for names, but like @brass_buckles says, I generally avoid using anything but what's in the wiki for long sentences. Beyond that, I tell the reader that the characters switched to Elven. A much smoother read that way.

 

As far as having a hard "k" sound in certain names, maybe the elves picked the names up from humans or dwarves they befriended. I named my canon Inquisitor Luca, though I knew it didn't sound elven, and then I found out there was a lady dwarf named Luka in multiplayer. So it all works out for me.

So that's two people who have issues with this person... I take it there's something I haven't heard.  Anyone care to private message me and fill me in?

It's 'cause he's failing at being ancient elvhen on the low down. Obviously.

Considering he was First before whats-her-name and they are in the same clan, he's probably not ancient.  He also has a particular affection for humans (over other elves, it would appear).

The important part is whether or not they are powerful as a couple.  

 

Iron Bull would only bring power to the table if you are prepared to embrace the Qun and then not much because he is not a leader but a simple operative.   In any case that particular alliance goes pear shaped pretty quickly if he stays in the Qun.

 

Dorian is now a Magister but unless his Lucerni party takes off in a big way, he has very little real political clout back home and the rest of Thedas only acknowledge Tevinter when it suits them.   He actually says in Trespasser that the best way to get Orlais and Ferelden to support keeping the Inquisition would be to say that Tevinter wants it closed down because they would oppose them on principle.   So not really much power invested in his relationship, particularly since he doesn't actually openly acknowledge his connection with the Inquisitor back home but only to his trusted inner Circle.   Of course this situation could change in the next game.

 

Cassandra will certainly not acknowledge the Inquisitor as her lover if Divine and I'm pretty sure she does end the relationship if she is.    It also depends on whether you keep the Inquisition going.    If you do, then this would add to her power since she now has a private army to replace the Templars but it remains to be seen just how much the Chantry's influence has been damaged by events in DAI.     In any case the Divine's power seems to really lie in influencing leaders to take certain actions but given how little rulers across Thedas follow the moral imperatives of the Chant, I wonder just how strong that influence is if they don't agree with her.

 

Solas has broken up with the Inquisitor and the best you can hope for is to influence him not to go ahead with whatever plans he has.   If Lavellan can persuade him to renounce his idea to tear down the Veil and instead use his considerable power to build a future for the elves in this world, then that would be a truly powerful couple, but sadly, for the elves at least, that is not to be.

 

So overall, from the romances available in DAI, Josephine would seem to potentially hold the greatest power base, provided you did her personal quest, but then you have to if you want to romance her.    It also really needs a human Inquisitor to fully realise its potential.

If you don't tell Solas never to mention it again and don't swear to kill him, he doesn't actually break up with your Lavellan.  He expects her to die and he doesn't expect to ever be with her again, but it's not precisely a break-up.

He tries to break up toward the end of the game before Trespasser, but then in Trespasser he's right there calling you "my love," and "Vhenan," and really could the guy get any more cruel in telling someone he ostensibly deeply cares about how he's going to destroy her entire world and her with it?

But that aside...  Even if you somehow survive events to come, I don't think you would get to be a "power couple" with Solas.  He's going to be reviled, probably even by the elves.  He gives a strong suggestion that what he's going to do is reprehensible on a level beyond just saying "let's burn the world again."  He probably doesn't expect to be alive to continue a romance even should Lavellan survive.  And, should he be alive, he may anticipate that he will change so much because of what he's up to, that he's not going to be someone you can be with.

I'd say the "I will never forget you" line is less a breakup than an admission that Lavellan meant much more to him than he wanted her to.  He can't let go.  That's a goodbye, not a breakup.  It's what you say when you think you're never going to meet someone again, not what you say when you're breaking up.

It's probably just a matter of perspective.

That said... we are going to Tevinter in the next game.  Although the nobles have power everywhere, in Tevinter that power is also magical. So I don't foresee us being able to marry for power there as long as we have the option to play someone who isn't a mage (or human, for that matter--elves do not have power in Tevinter, unless they scrape and claw for it--and even then they have little, and I don't know the standing of dwarves in Tevinter).

For anyone who is uncomfortable with using Project Elvhen as a reference there's now an alternative source:

 

http://archiveofouro...chapters/582281

I've known about this for a while, and to be honest, I much prefer it and the Elven Language wiki to Project Elvhen.  Sure, I mostly cannot write entire sentences of Dragon Age Elvish that way, but although I know it's a monumental effort to try to create a conlang, I felt that there's too much direct translation and lack of grammar involved in Project Elvhen.  Some of the words I've seen people use from it in their fics do not match the "feel" of Dragon Age Elvish, which avoids any harsh consonants or consonant-vowel combinations.

So when I write, I only translate a few words at a time, or just write it out in English and tell my readers that my characters are speaking in Elvhen.  Honestly it's probably better that way than having to translate everything all the time--while it's neat to be able to write in elvish, it's also super frustrating for readers to need a translation of everything ever.  Or at least it is for me!  I don't want to have to flip to a dictionary or scroll down to the notes and lose my place--it breaks into my enjoyment of the story.

There is another factor, too:  Words in Elvhen often have multiple meanings, or vague meanings.  It's hard to convey that in a conlang that often translates things directly from English (or whatever language) to the made-up language, pasting the made-up words into familiar grammatical structures.  I know that it works more-or-less this way now, but down the line we might begin to see more use of grammar and syntax as we encounter more elvish in future games/novels/comics.

But again, I get that it's a huge effort and I don't disparage the people who want to use Project Elvhen or the person/people who have worked on it.  It's just not my preference.

Isn't it EA Play they're announcing stuff at this year, instead of E3?  EA was doing their own fan-oriented thing rather than E3's industry-centered event.  Which is nice, because previously, E3 was open to fans but now it's more for the actual industry.  It's good to see there being more events for fans than just PAX.

I've always thought Vivienne changed the least about the Chantry.  She reinstates the Circles and the Templars and forces the mages back into the Circles.  She completely returns things to how they were (which is what was causing the problems to begin with).  Cassandra invites the mages to return but doesn't force them although I don't recall what she does about the Templars.  Vivienne might be the most radical choice for Divine because she's a mage but she's also the most staunchly conservative of the three choices.  Cassandra wants moderate change and Leliana changes things a great deal.

 

My personal belief is that the Chantry *has* to change to remain relevant.  Returning things to the way they were and ruling with an iron fist (Vivienne) is only going to restart the cycle that lead to the rebellion.  Cassandra wants to change things a little but not enough.  Leliana I think is heading in the right direction although probably too fast.

Vivienne opens the way for mages to be in leadership positions.  That's a radical change by itself.

Cassandra will keep mages in the Towers, and she will police those Circle Towers with templars.  She claims they won't be prisoners, that templars will be used as protectors and not as jailers, but effectively she changes nothing.  Maybe it's different if you pick different dialogue options for her, just as it is with Leliana.  Cassandra wants to restore order by making things mostly the same as they were, and so that's what she does if she's made Divine.  And that's how all this mess happened--it began the way that Cassandra wants to deal with things, but it ended up with mages as prisoners and templars as jailers.  The most likely outcome is that over generations the notion that templars should be guardians rather than jailers for mages would once again decay and you'd get another rebellion.  The only upside is that Cassandra will, most likely, end the practice of rendering mages Tranquil.  But even that is not guaranteed, since she's the sort who'd believe it may be necessary.

As for what Vivienne changes, rather than have the Circles be prisons from which mages can never leave, she allows them to earn the right to more freedom, and she's very open about this.  Plus, again, she makes it possible for mages to be in leadership positions, something that Cassandra vehemently opposes.  The most likely outcome of this is that, although other races will not enjoy the freedoms that Leliana offers, mages will eventually gain total freedom from being bound to the Circles.  Why?  Because mages who earn their freedom will earn people's trust, and eventually, long after Vivienne is dead and gone, most people will not see mages as a threat.  Therefore, mages might train at a Circle but then be free for the rest of their lives.  However, the Rite of Tranquility definitely would still be standing in Vivienne's Chantry.

You could argue that, although moderate changes are best in theory, Vivienne is worst because she sets up the potential for a magocracy along the lines of the Tevinter Imperium.  But it really looks like that is where things are going regardless, because personally I believe Solas is going to succeed whether we stop him or not.  Everyone's going to be a mage...

My experience of the game was different than yours. I accidentally hardened Leliana early in the game when I had my Inquisitor say that the Inquisition scouts who died knew what they had signed up for, instead of the more motherly option of saying 'no one is expendable,' which is true but didn't seem to fit the moment. As a result, during Leliana's personal quest, in spite of choosing the 'softening' options, I could not prevent her from slitting Sister Natalie's throat, and when I had my Inquisitor confront Leliana about it, she was kind of bitchy towards her. I am pretty sure that my Leliana would slit the throats of anyone who opposed her ideas about the direction the Chantry should go, and her words definitely made me think she would forcibly convert non-human people to the Chantry.

 

As a counterpoint, I never noticed Cassandra mocking my Inquisitor Lavellan's beliefs. Sure, she wished I would become Andrastian but she didn't hold it against me when I didn't. When we recovered the Book of Secrets, Cassandra was determined not to keep it secret any longer. She vowed to look into the Circles, the treatment of Tranquil, and reversing the Rite of Tranquility, although she was concerned about how the newly un-Tranquil would manage. She favoured the idea of reforming the Chantry, refocusing its efforts on serving the community, she accepted my suggestion to reform the Seekers, etc.

 

Yes, her ideas for change may not be as expansive as Leliana's, but like you I felt that baby steps were needed. That decision was reinforced for me by the epilogue slide, which says that some people found even Cassandra's relatively minor reforms too great. So I stand by my decision to make Cassandra the Divine; I think she is well-placed to start the Chantry on a better path, and I'm not worried about her trying to forcibly convert non-humans to her faith.

It probably is what we chose as dialogue options.  Cass openly derided the ancient elven gods in my Dalish Inquisitor's presence.  These were gods my character believed in her whole life, and Cass was telling her what idiots the Dalish were to believe in them.  She also demanded of my Inquisitor why she couldn't believe in just one more god, early on... long before she began mocking my Inquisitor's long-held faith.

As for Leliana, yes I softened her.  And although hardened Leliana is a cruel woman, I still don't think she'd force people to convert or else.  She'd force them to toe the line or else... but she's smart enough to know that forced conversion is going to foment a massive rebellion, just like forcing the mages into prisons solely because of an accident of birth eventually brought forth a rebellion.  If she's not smart enough to figure that out, then she's nowhere near the clever person the writers have made her out to be over the past three games.

Of the three options, I'm reasonably sure Solas would prefer Leliana, and I'm not sure, cynical person that he is, he wouldn't prefer hardened Leliana.  After all, he'd think you needed to back your changes with force as much as (if not more than) diplomacy.

I'm not sure about making Leliana the Divine... She does talk about freeing up the mages, which sure, Solas would agree with. However, she also talks about forcing change, and bringing the elves and the dwarves into the fold, because she believes this would bring peace. She goes on to say that "There are those who would cling to the old ways, of course, but they will see. I would make them see." That smacks so much of colonialism that I could not support her. I imagine her forcing elves, dwarves, and Qunari to convert from the elven pantheon, the Stone, and the Qun and join the Chantry. I do not believe Solas would support that. Well, except maybe for forcing the Qun to change.     Seriously though, forcing people to change their old beliefs (even if it was in the Qun) does not strike me as something Solas would support, with all the value he places on freedom and freedom of thought.

 

ETA: I was looking up info on how the Divine was chosen, and added up the points Cassandra, Leliana, and Vivienne would have received based on my choices... Either the wiki is missing some information, or I had a bug in my game, because Cassandra had 11 points, Leliana 21-22 points (I don't remember what choice I made for one of the Divine point-giving things listed there), and Vivienne -9 points, yet Cassandra became the Divine in my game. For which I am grateful.

I don't think softened Leliana would forcibly convert people.  Hardened Leliana might.

Yes, she wants more people to turn to the Chantry, but I think she'd use her words to convince them, rather than forced conversion (which, incidentally, is how the Qun converts people... via force and brainwashing).

In all honesty, other than the force she uses to uphold her power, Vivienne is probably the best person to make Divine (my opinion only), simply because she is the moderate (surprisingly enough) option.  Being a mage makes her a radical choice, it's true, but out of all three, Cassandra changes the least and Leliana changes the most about the Chantry and its infrastructure.  Leliana's Chantry, which is open to all comers and opens the priesthood to men, elves, dwarves, and qunari, is in many ways ideal--but too much change often meets with resistance, and it's all too often the violent kind of resistance.  Cassandra's desire to make things just go back the way they were can't succeed--we see where that led already.  You can't tell people they aren't prisoners while treating them like prisoners.  Sooner or later you'll end up with the same results:  the templars will abuse their power, mages will be made Tranquil, and of course, mages will rebel.  Vivienne offers increased freedom to mages who earn it--which is actually a logical solution even if it means they're still effectively prisoners.  I'm not sure if she would still allow Tranquil--likely she would--but in many ways mages are so accustomed to being imprisoned that they have difficulty adapting.  While plenty are pleased with freedom, plenty more miss their towers.  Although I'm sure Solas would disagree with me vehemently on the grounds that freedom should be granted outright, not earned, I see Vivienne's leadership as less "the way things should be," and more a stepping stone on the path to a more Leliana-like Chantry.

Having said all that, even though I think Vivienne may actually be the best choice, there's no way I could avoid putting Leliana in power.  Her entire story thus far seems to have been leading her up to it.  And honestly, although I know her drastic changes to the Chantry aren't really wise, I can't disagree with her intentions.  Again, I don't think she's going to force conversions (if I suddenly learn she has, my opinion will change for sure!).  She just wants the Chantry to be more inclusive to those who already believe, and more welcoming to those who may wish to convert.  She'll open the priesthood to everyone, not just human women.  And as for those who want to cling to the old ways, I'm pretty sure that refers to the Chantry's old ways--the belief that the Maker abandoned everyone, the removal of Shartan from the Chant of Light, keeping elves and dwarves and qunari out of the various Chantry buildings when believers should be welcomed there regardless what shape they take.

I would be more fearful of Cassandra as Divine forcing her way than of a softened Leliana, who would likely lead by example and expect conversions to happen as they would.  Cassandra is, let us not forget, the one who expects your Dalish Inquisitor to embrace one more god in the Maker, but then openly mocks and disparages your Dalish gods later on.  Unless your Dalish Inquisitor was never much of a believer, that's incredibly insulting.  Sure... take one more god, but remember he's the only real god and that makes you and Ameridan both complete fools, in the eyes of Cassandra.  And even post-Trespasser, a Dalish has the right to remain faithful and believe that the disparagement of his or her gods is negative propaganda from Fen'harel and his followers, who have much to gain from you turning your back on the "rightful" evanuris gods.

Solas can deny it all he wants, but by some definitions he is in fact a god--he is ageless, presumably difficult to kill, and he is powerful beyond what anyone else alive is capable of being.  If the other evanuris compared to him in power, they could also be considered deities.  Even if you completely believe they aren't gods by any definition, the Dalish, even the Inquisitor, still have the right to their beliefs and faiths.  At this point they are less involved in worshiping an individual and more some nebulous idea of that individual.  Since they don't truly know who it is they are worshiping (as in, they are worshiping crafted identities rather than the actual flawed people), who is to say that they are not worshiping actual gods that, like the Avvar, they may have created out of their own belief?  Or that may have existed all along, and taken the names of the people they worship as a matter of convenience?  Let's not forget that the Avvar gods are spirits.  But they very much exist, and one of the actual definitions of a "god," is a spirit.  Some such gods are greater than others.

... What I'm trying to say is, if you believe Leliana with her disapproval of people backsliding and trying to keep elves/men/dwarves/etc out of the Chantry (and the Chant of Light itself, in the case of Shartan) is bad, then how is Cassandra better with her desire to change literally nothing, but keep people imprisoned (under the caveat that she'll just have templars be more careful about not oppressing the mages they keep caged)?  And how is Cassandra's mockery of others' beliefs any better than Leliana's suggestions that the Chantry should be a place people WANT to come to?

Frankly I agree with Leliana's intentions the most, but I see Vivienne as a necessary step to get there.  But both Cassandra and Vivienne are more likely to press Chantry beliefs on those who don't accept Chantry dogma--Cassandra, because she seems to believe that any other beliefs are foolish, and Vivienne because whether she has faith or not, an increase in followers is an increase in power.

And I think you have misinterpreted what Leliana meant by "old ways," because I still do not think she's referring to the "old ways" of the dwarves or the Dalish or the Qun.  She's talking about the Chantry's old traditions, which are often senseless or have been the cause of senseless cruelty to others.  Again, the persecution of elves and the removal of Shartan from the Chant were in no small part due to the Chantry's influence.  Leliana remarks that although Varric is devout Andrastian, he won't go into a Chantry because as a dwarf he wouldn't be welcome there.  Do you honestly think an elf would show up in a Chantry other than maybe a small alienage temple?  And then who would preach to them?  Elves can't be Chantry sisters.  I'm reasonably sure she's also the one who says that the Chantry should lead by example, and that if they set a good example, people will convert to the Chant.  Sure, she wants people to convert--she isn't going to force them (unless you hardened her, in which case she very well might).  But she's highly religious and she might be put into position as a leader of her religion.  Of course she wants people to convert--religions don't last long without followers!

Thank you for the input.   The idea that Solas might have originally been referred to as the "Elder One" had never occurred to me but I have to admit it does make sense.  So Corypheus knew that it was called the "Orb of the Elder One" and so appropriated the title for himself.    Also you are probably right that it was just Tevinter arrogance that makes Corypheus claim so much for himself because he can't bring himself to admit that he had to rely on an elven artefact at all.    

Solas being known as "The Elder One" actually doesn't make much sense either, in the context of lore.

Remember, there are/were other elves much older than Solas.  Solas speaks of growing up in a small village--we don't know whether he embodied as a spirit more or less fully grown, or was a child at some point.  Either way, pretty much everyone else in the village before he existed would have been older than him.  Mythal would presumably be older, as would Elgar'nan.

Contextually, once the other evanuris were sealed away, Solas could have conceivably been the oldest elf to wander the world.  But the only way that this is possible is if everyone older than Solas had failed to survive uthenera (remember from The Masked Empire that most elves could not learn to sustain themselves from the Fade, and thus uthenera was death).  To his followers, perhaps he was Hahren, but it seems just as likely he adopted the name "Fen'harel" instead.

In other news, I had a weird dream involving Solas.  He was declaring to his beloved that they should just leave their bodies behind and guard a specific area of the Fade... she didn't want to do that because it meant death.  Kind of creepy.

Interesting how folk respond to aspects of the writing in different ways.  I loved Solas' Trespasser countenance (quite glacial and austere, formal, "other")... for me it really showed where he's at mentally. Trying to disconnect himself not just from Lavellan (cause this isn't just about Lavellan and the love between them) and the friends he made in the Inquisition but from modern peoples and the world of Today and even himself... all so that he can bear to go through with what he thinks he has to do. He was trying to put up barriers but he was so full of melancholy, he was trying to play the part of the passionless intellectual but in his voice and on his face (the cinematic designers nailed that scene!) you could see his hurt and his regret and his guilt and his shame... just, it was so full of meaning and feeling, he didn't seem cold at all. It was all there beneath the surface and burling around between the lines, calm sea on the surface but currents roiling hot underneath.

 

I also found his refusal to allow Lavellan to join or help him very poignant.. that was in part out of caring for her.

You know, he might not just "think" he has to do whatever it is he's up to.  Maybe there are valid reasons he really should, even if our characters should certainly be against him.  He's not doing this for the glory of the elves, and I doubt it's out of guilt for his actions (though his guilt certainly would lend a certain nuance to his actions).  Creating the Veil broke the world in a fundamental way.  While the world might not be ending as a result, Solas may have reasons other than the obvious for his actions.

In other words, I'm pretty sure we don't know Solas's complete motivation for his plans, just like we don't really know what it is he's going to do.  We assume he means to bring down the Veil, but "how" could be just as important as "what," in this case.  And we can't be certain that he still plans to do that, since he said that's what he would have done, if he'd had the orb.

That said, whatever his motivations are, that doesn't mean that his plans become good knowing the amount of damage they are likely to cause.  As I said in another thread, his actions might be justified, depending upon what he's doing precisely and why he's doing it.  But being justified doesn't necessarily mean an action is right or good, only that it is at least "not unacceptable."  Double negative intended--killing that many people isn't acceptable, but if the cost of NOT going through with his plan is the eventual end of the world or catastrophic harm to the currently existing people, then the price paid might be justified.  As for being right or not... willingly harming or killing the number of people Solas expects as casualties is still monstrous and, at least to me, morally repugnant, even if it will result in ultimately saving the world.  But it could be that Solas, seeing no other options, realizes no one else is going to volunteer for such a horrible task.

Hm.  Other thoughts...

I still think Mythal/Flemeth wants Solas's plan to go through.  I know there was a quote from her VA that suggested otherwise.  However, weren't we informed somewhere that she had nurtured that power that she had for Solas all this time, knowing or suspecting what he would do?  And has she not been seeking to preserve various bits and snippets of magic throughout the years?

I'm thinking that she's still planning revenge on whoever it was who betrayed her--and perhaps combining that with vengeance against whoever betrayed Flemeth.  It's interesting in the case of Flemeth, though, because it would suggest that Flemeth's betrayer might still be alive... or that she's out to do something to said betrayer's bloodline.  In Mythal's case, we don't know who the remnant population might be, or who precisely tried to murder her, or why other than they seemed to be grasping for power.  Mythal's murderers were likened to the Venatori.  Venatori are fanatics worshiping a would-be god.  Maybe Mythal was murdered around the time the Evanuris began proclaiming themselves gods... or maybe she was murdered by the followers of a person who intended to set him/herself up on equal footing with the Evanuris.

And yet another thought, regarding the Blight and dragons.  Solas freaks out about the Archdemons being killed... and they sing to the Blight and draw it to them.  Or maybe they just sing and the Blight seeks them out.  That seems more likely than wanting to be blighted and trade one prison for another.  I've started to think that maybe the singing etc is intentional, but the attraction of darkspawn is not.  The Old Gods want free--they could be spirits trapped within dragons, or maybe some kind of Super Dragon (we really don't know what they are still).  They are imprisoned, ostensibly.  I know some people believe that they are the Evanuris.  That could be true, but I don't think it is.  What I believe is that they could be, due to dragons' inherent resistance to Blight, intended to lock the Blight out of the world somehow.  If that's the case, Solas might have had something to do with it.  And it might either be part of his method for creating the Veil, or it may have inspired the Veil.  It also means that the plan failed miserably because now the Blight targets the dragons.  If all the dragons are blighted and/or killed, then the Blight, whatever it is, wherever it originates, will no longer be locked away.

... But that's just a wild guess.  And my theories (other than elves being spirits originally who somehow became flesh) are typically wrong.  So take it with a grain of salt?

I... had a couple posts quoted but I have no idea what I was going to say.

I can say this:  Mortal to ancient elves likely meant "not gods," since elves were ageless and evidently also disease-free.  They could die, though.  Murder, accident, and uthenera could kill them.  Felassan in Masked Empire says that the elves who entered uthenera were tended to for a set amount of time, but if after that time they couldn't sustain themselves, they died.  Those who survived might eventually wake and become guides and leaders to the People.  So in theory, those who came out of uthenera might not be seen as mortal by other elves--they might be viewed as having risen from death in fact.  And maybe they did, because uthenera seems to be a deathlike state. Masked Empire describes beds, but we see tombs in The Descent where we are told that the people within them might still be alive.  Of course... those might also be prisons, rather than beds.  We don't know.

So to the ageless, as others pointed out, "unkillable" is probably the definition of "immortal."  Everyone not an evanuris might be mortal, but maybe those who survive uthenera are also immortal.  I can't say without further info.

As for the idea about forgetting... it's interesting.  Even Solas tells a story about a spirit who has been forgotten and lost its identity.  It's pretty much doomed to die because no one knows it anymore, even though it was once common.  Considering the role that will and belief have where spirits, elves, and Thedas in general are concerned, forgetting someone might really be a death sentence.  Similarly, as the Avvar point out, belief could maybe create something where nothing was before.  The Chant of Light could theoretically have created a Maker-like being (yes I know we aren't going to ever be told whether this is true or not directly, but bear with me) even if there were not previously a Maker.  In that regard, too, faith in the Evanuris as gods might have caused them to become more powerful and more godlike, though it's not clear if will and belief can work in such a way as to make an individual more powerful.

I still like my idea that it's a warning so you can prepare as much as it is possible to prepare.  He expects massive destruction, but whatever it is he's trying to do is so important to him that he will go through it anyway, no matter much he hates to.  But if word gets out, maybe some people will be sufficiently prepared to survive.

I'm pretty sure this plan of his is going through no matter whether we kill him or redeem him.  As for whether he survives if redeemed, that probably depends on Flemeth--she might be against him, but she might be for his plan.  We don't know.  He may survive even if we kill him.  Remember, he's pretty much an evanuris himself--which means he's going to be difficult to kill.  His spirit might survive and join with someone else, just like Mythal's has done.

My quick theory of what might happen:

Solas is killed or stopped at a critical moment.  Then one of his agents is (surprise) working for someone else--either an evanuris or Forgotten One--and completes the plan anyway, setting the stage for DA5.  DA5 will more than likely be the final game of the series.

Art post.

 

The Moon: Solavellan tarot card

Spoiler

Source: http://bloodwrit.tum.../xviii-the-moon

 

 

"You've left a mark on my heart." Solavellan.

Spoiler

Source: http://tsyele.tumblr...y-heart-ladymal

 

 

Solavellan WIP sketch. 

Spoiler

Source: http://pauvre-lola.t...ad-babies-elves

 

 

A gorgeous Solas tarot card.

Spoiler

Source: https://kingcholera....st/144273364233

 

 

Solas portrait.

Spoiler

Source: http://bad-creations...trait-ill-never

 

 

----

 

Also, not fanwork but I had no idea that Heroes of Dragon Age now has Fen'Harel!

Not really liking the hood design but oh well...

Spoiler

Source: http://sirladysketch...game-but-heroes

 

 

Makes me want to play the game again.

Heroes of Dragon Age actually has 3 versions of Solas now.  There's Solas, Apostate Solas, and Fen'harel.

I have all three.

If you're on iOS and you play, I made a guild (it has guilds now):  Fen'harel's Agents.  The level limit is high but if your level is lower I'll reduce it so you can apply, if you want.

In another thread, there's been a discussion about what Solas's motives might have been to monologue what he's up to (sort of, since he says that WAS what he'd have done, but his plans have changed and we can't be sure he's even intending to bring down the Veil even though that appears to be what he wants...).

Some say it's because Solas wants to be stopped.

I'm thinking there's something else there.  Yes, he'd like us to stop him.  He also saves the Inquisitor no matter how much he detests said Inquisitor.

I think Solas is up to something considerably more crafty and manipulative than just setting you loose so you can stop him and oppose him.  He's making sure that you know what's coming so you can tell others.

Why would he do that?  Why would he do the classic villain monologue?

He's trying to minimize the casualties his plan is going to cause.

Doesn't make sense?  Bear with me... if you know about his plan, and others find out about his plan through you and your followers, people now know what he intends to do.  They know the effects he anticipates.  In other words, people can prepare, as much as it's possible to do so for something as catastrophic as Solas is planning.

This is his way of telling the villagers about his slow arrow,  If they don't listen now and take steps to protect themselves (stay indoors until the arrow comes down!), they're going to die.  But if they listen, their chances of survival will greatly improve.  It doesn't guarantee survival, but it might help.  And that is better than nothing.

I don't know why I thought of this, but it makes a lot of sense to me, at least.

If not for that, and possibly his hope that he will be stopped before he becomes a monster (it's arguable he already is, for killing Felassan and Flemeth), there would be no reason at all to tell you anything.  He could just say, "I saved your life, be grateful and watch for agents infiltrating your organization," and be on his merry way.  He has been secretive all along, so why suddenly tell you anything at all, if he didn't have a purpose for doing so?  He must know that for many, the explanation will only be painful.

I think him visiting Lavellan in dreams is him torturing himself, and making sure that she's safe. He can't stay away but knows that getting close will mean the beginning of the end of his resolve. He believes she can stop him, and even wants her to, but he can't bring himself to give into that because he sees that as betraying himself and those he considers his People.

I think it's one part longing for what he is sure he can't have again (a relationship with Lavellan), and one part making sure she's still okay.  He may be spying on her, trying to be sure of her plans.  The reason he avoids getting close probably is to keep her from convincing him not to go through with those plans of his.

Note that no matter how horrible you are to Solas, he doesn't kill the Inquisitor.  He also tells a romanced Inquisitor that she has a rare and marvelous spirit.  I'm thinking, considering his willingness to kill friends who oppose him, that there is something about the Inquisitor in particular that he doesn't want to see destroyed.  Even the way he tells you that he's saving you "for now" might imply he plans to  try sparing the Inquisitor, at least, from what is to come--even though he probably expects you to die anyway.  And then whatever it is he sees about the Inquisitor that is so special will be forever lost.

We're time traveling back to the last day of March with these quotes:

 

 

 

If she's known as a healer, perhaps the 'healer has the bloodiest hands' can apply to her.

 

And about Ghilan'nain, I'm still wondering why Solas is carying her staff in his tarot card. And the mention of her grove being peaceful when it's basically a graveyard with a shrine to him in it.

 

 

Maybe he's like a rage demon. They're fiery, he's been symbolized with fiery things.

Well, I'm sure it's peaceful now.  After all, Ghilan'ain is gone...

 

Oh look how we handle the genocide with technicalities!

Genocide is the deliberate killing of a large group of people,so does it really matter  if it will likely happen as  consequence?

A consequence of whom Solas is already aware and despite it want to fulfill his plan.

So yes for my perspective is a genocide since he wish to perform a plan while perfectly aware of its possible repercussions.

 

I'm not defending Solas's intentions or actions as right; in any case there's insufficient information about why he is working to do whatever he's doing (presumably bring down the Veil, but we can't be sure of that either since he did tell us that WAS his plan, but his plans have changed).

Knowingly causing deaths, even incidental ones, is certainly wrong.  On the scale Solas's plans entail, and the scale of mass casualties he expects, it's extremely wrong.  That's precisely why I wouldn't want anything to do with someone like him in reality, but that said, he makes for a fascinating character.  However, Solas is a nuanced character, and there's probably more to it than just selfishness or a desire to make things better for himself and his people.  Probably.  I can't say for sure, but Weekes seems to be the kind of writer who is going to make this into a tangled situation where things aren't clear-cut good and evil.

To put it into context, if a military were to use a carpet bomb style attack on a highly populated region known to harbor terrorists, we know that a lot of civilians would die. More might be saved in the long run than were killed, because the terrorist cell can't plan out attacks anymore.  But, innocent people still died--they were individuals, and now someone's going to write them down as numbers, as if they didn't have names and families and hopes and dreams of their own.  Garrus from Mass Effect has to make similar choices for the turians in ME3--"ruthless calculus," he calls it.  I suspect that this is sort of where Solas is at--not that exact situation, but there's some reason--some massive reason--he feels he can't stop his plan.  For some reason, he seems to believe that his end results will justify the mass casualties brought about by his plan.  That doesn't make it right or good.  Whether it's justified or not is a moral and philosophical debate, but it's probable that Solas at least believes that whatever monster he's making himself into, he's acting for the greater good.

That said, he's not genocidal--he doesn't want to bring about mass destruction and seems to hope that people will survive despite his expectations, and even if he's low approval and doesn't view the populace as people, he still doesn't bear them the amount of ill will required to actually desire their extermination (he won't mind it as much, maybe, but it's still a lot of death and suffering and he doesn't want to be responsible for that).  His actual goal is not to destroy the modern Thedosians, and we can't even say for sure that his goal is only to renew the world for the ancient elves.  He's already grieving for the Inquisitor (painting that fresco, remember?) before his plan truly goes into motion--possibly before he even feels the Inquisitor is a "real" person.  He feels it is necessary to accomplish... whatever it is he's trying to accomplish.  Again, we don't really know. It may tie in with the Blight and/or Titans as well as the Veil.

So don't take my statement that Solas isn't actually genocidal to mean I condone his actions.  I think the mass destruction he expects is heinous.  It's still possible he might (arguably) be justified, but only if there are no alternatives to his plan that will cause less harm and the consequences of not carrying out his plan are worse than the destruction caused by his plan.  I know that some will say he still wouldn't be justified even if the world is going to end/be devoured by Blight within the next decade if he doesn't act.  But, it's possible that he sees something we don't (because the writers haven't seen fit to play all their cards yet) and his plan is intended to stop something even worse.  Then again... is it worth becoming a monster to stop something worse happening later?

There's an interesting psychological phenomenon going on, isn't it? A lot of people think that we'll be fighting for preservation of modern Thedosians... yet there are those who don't see that the other side does that as well? I mean, it at least appears to be one of the major motives for Solas - and even without him we hear from Abelas that they're dying out, and we don't even know how many of them there are, or if the world will lose something important if they disappear.

 

Heck, we can tell that even modern elves - as well as dwarves AND mages - appear to be on a slightly longer road towards extinction unless someone stems the tide, in some magical way too; dwarves seem to suffer due to severed connection with Titans and their birth rate is steadily declining, elves can only mate between themselves otherwise their offspring is human and the mage population is declining either because people are actively working to cull their numbers (Chantry) or they intermarry and keep the gifts of magic from larger population (Tevinter).

 

Yet because we don't identify with them as readily as common humans it's THEY who have to go? Is sitting on our hands and just waiting for the problem to go away on its own really a better solution?

 

Some could say that this may simply be the natural way of things... but ah, now we know that the world *isn't* in it's 'natural' state, is it?  Some could say that the majority can't be sacrificed for minorities - but we don't even know how many people will suffer from the state the world is in in the long run. What if things go their way and the Veil will deteriorate on its own and there will be nothing anyone would be able to do to save anyone; not even a fraction of population? What if the same thing happens but with the Blight? Or what if the Qunari will have their way and strengthen the Veil (which we know they're working on!) to the point that they'd inadvertently cut the magic from the word entirely - and we know what happens when people are cut away from the Fade.

 

At this point we just don't know if this could/will happen. But those are possibilities we can't so far exclude. Nor we can ignore that with the way things are there are people (and spirits) who suffer greatly and who'd probably use any opportunity to improve the well-being of themselves and their loved ones. I can't really blame them for that.

Building on this further, we don't know what long-term effects Solas perceives the Veil as having.  Changing the very nature of the world was an experiment that he seems to believe has gone awry.  He may not know too much from having been in the Fade, but I'm sure more has changed than people's connection to the Fade (and their spirits apparently?  Elves at least seem to all have a spirit, in a very literal sense, if I understand the context clues right--maybe modern elves lack this.).  We read about things going extinct from lack of magic--such as that one codex on the giant flower that the elf watched die.  If he perceives that things are becoming worse, i.e. something to do with the Blight (red lyrium would imply this to be the case...), that could be why he feels the need to act now.

What we do know is that Solas thought the Breach was too dangerous to leave unrepaired.  I suspect the Veil, if left alone, would have eventually formed many tears that would have been exactly like what we see in Inquisition with the various rifts we seal.  Even if its existence isn't a long-term problem, its eventual and inevitable failure most certainly is.  The Breach isn't good; neither are the rifts it causes.  Even without the Breach, rifts forming would have been bad--they force spirits through, who are then corrupted and begin to attack.

That said, I wish the spirits had been more interesting this time.  I remember the sloth demons and desire demons usually had interesting dialogue, and their words were more dangerous than their attacks.  That no longer seems to be the case for DAI.  I imagine Despair could have been given some fascinating scenes when the Inquisition was at its low points (i.e. Corypheus just destroyed Haven--so give up), but it wasn't anything more than another battle with no real dialogue.  Missed opportunity, if you ask me.

Solas: "You must understand - I awoke in a word where the Veil had blocked most people's conscious connection with to the Fade. It

 was like walking through a world of Tranquil."

 

It's literally there, in the comment he compares people to Tranquil.

Going a step further, there are context clues (one is even dropped in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC where Ameridan or Telana mentions their spirit... as though it were part of them, but also a Fade spirit) suggesting that elves are supposed to be both spirits and flesh.  That they materialized from spirits in the first place, just as Cole has.  In that case, flesh without connection to its spirit, no matter how much free will or thought or emotion it has, must seem to be less than a person to Solas, at least until he can either get used to the idea or decide that the spirits are still there but severed from their bodies because of the Veil.

But I might be wrong.  I've said it before, but I'm rarely right in my theories (then again I make a lot of them and I was right about elves apparently being spirits originally... so there's that).

Well if we go by what Felassan said in masked empire, then I don't see why would comment about other races.

 

I think he said something along the lines of "There were no other people but the elves". Humans and qunari were probably not even part of the equation for him because they didn't exist in the world stage yet.

 

But the dwarves. The dwarves are a different matter. We know there is heavily implied interaction between them and the elves in the form of a war or conflict of some sort. But we are not sure in what context. The main thing that was implied was that the evanuris went after Titans, the dwarves themselves were rarely mentioned.

 

Were they even considered people by the elves? Were the ancient dwarves really different from modern day dwarves ("the dwarves don't really remember the dwarves" ->Cole)? Why is that Solas himself admits he knew little of the dwarves in no small part because he could never find them in the fade?

 

You would think Solas would know about the dwarves, given their implied conflict with the Evanuris.

If the elves didn't see the other people as people, Felassan's comment makes perfect sense.

Humans have changed in some way we don't know, dwarves lost their connection to the Titans...   We don't have much info on the origin of qunari, but DAI made me think that wherever they came from, the original race pre-modification actually existed prior to the elves (and was perhaps conquered by the elves, and dehumanized, so to speak).