One way to possibly look at it - Cadash is no angel, they would likely be playing people for schmucks all the time as part of their simply being part of the Carta, this is maybe a sort of Karma for them? To fall for someone who is also a liar? A lot of my fellow Blackwall fans have romanced him with a Cadash, and in so many ways it fits (even if I personally didn't romance him with my Cadash.)

 

I don't know what to say, if you're really struggling to justify romancing him (this has not been the first time I've seen you deliberate over this) then perhaps the romance really isn't for you and maybe romancing nobody is the best option for this particular canon run?

Vivienne doesn't like Blackwall because in their first conversation, he assumes she is some helpless woman who needs protecting, when that's the exact opposite image she works so hard to present. She then completely dismisses him and she then mocks his inept attempts of mocking her.

If you look at any of the conversations, Vivienne considers Blackwall inconsequential and a mere smudge to ignore. Her dislike is not from being offended about his assumptions about her. Everything Blackwall says is of no consequence to her, his opinion is not valued, his reasonings for various things that happen within the game is dismissed for being naive and arrogant. In fact she dismisses him at every turn, that is the dynamic.

 

Do you honestly think a woman like Vivienne considers her well crafted image is likely to take a dent from someone she considers well beneath her? She actually takes no offence at anything he says or does, the only time she appears to take offence - is that his position isn't taken by a chevaliar rather than a 'low life thug'.

 

Her opinion of him is 'shut up and hit things'

Also, I haven't noticed much hostility from Vivienne towards him... she barely joined my parties, so there wasn't much "throwing shades" between them. At least, Sera called her a "biatch" at some point, which... well, she is.

Vivienne and Blackwall's banters are easily the most vicious in the game, to the point of being downright unpleasant to witness. However, there is a reasoning behind it and it speaks of great characterisation of both Viv and Blackwall in my opinion within the grand scheme of 'the game'.

 

My take on Viv’s dislike of Blackwall is that he represents what she despises, failure and obscurity. Before revelations he’s a grey warden, although there is no banter about how ‘Blackwall’ (the real Blackwall) became a warden – Viv is no fool and can see someone who played the game and failed miserably – so that’s maybe why he is a member of such an order. Vivienne disproves if you recruit the Wardens at Adamant and approves if you exile them – telling you that she doesn’t think highly of them.

 

Blackwall is pretty cutting toward her as well, he calls her a snake, because he dislikes ‘the ambition’, he hates ‘the game’ (partly because HE failed so miserably at it.) Vivienne represents what he despises as much as what Blackwall represents what she despises.

 

People say she is ‘nasty to Blackwall’ but his sniveling, later spiteful pandering, then just outright snide civility, is no better. People who fail to notice this have their head in the sand at how complex these characters have been written. This is a nuanced take on the Orlesian Grand Game, and the more I think about it the more glorious both Viv and Blackwall become because of it. A friend had a bigger take on it - especially on the notion of squandered opportunity by Thom Rainier for the sake of a few coins - whereas Vivienne had to fight to earn her place.

I can't stand her. I mean, I get it, I understand her appeal, but I found the writing to be way too on the nose when trying to establish her as being "quirky" and anti-establishment. 
 
I want to like her, I really do, but I find her grating and especially with human characters (or even an elf, as she seems to despise dalish tradition) there seems to always be an RP reason why my Inquisitor wouldn't like her. 
 
Maybe if I play a noble hating dwarf we'll get along. Who knows. Am I alone here?

I don't know why you would feel bad? Because other people tell you who you should and shouldn't like? Your playthrough, your rules, you do what you need to make it a fun and engaging time.

Personally I love her, but I not going to be a douche about people not liking her. But I do think a qunari and dwarf Inquisitor's tend to have a better run with her. Dwarves are Carta members (a criminal organisation for the most part), qunari are simply outsiders, they're not human nobles and elfy elves so from what I gather (and from my own pt) she gets on better with them. Telling then that a non romanced Sera finds love with another outsider (Dagna)

Really it's only Viv who is absolutely vicious to Blackwall, both before and after revelations and as someone alluded too mainly because each represent the things they despise about their backgrounds. All the companions are pretty pissed about him after revelations, but then turn that on its heel when they see he is truly trying to redeem himself. However I think the only person who really has a hard time moving on from Blackwalls revelation is Cass, and even Blackwall says he doesn't blame her (or anyone really) for that.

@berelinde your analysis on Varric is great! Also telling that Varric appears to like him more when he finds out he's a liar and a murderer rather than the holier than though hypocrite he initially takes him for (I say that without reference to Sebastion mainly because I have never done the Sebastion DLC)

Blackwall has some great banter, pity those who think him too boring to take him out with other companions to listen to it. His story in the Hissing wastes and his banter with Sera always good for a laugh.

Mixing up your companions is the only way you'll hear a lot of banter, I'm running a lot with Iron Bull, Cass and Varric in this pt and hearing some great stuff I hadn't heard before.

Why did they remove it?

It's not. It's called diastema and is an inherited trait, not caused through poor hygiene. So you can ignore the ignorance of the previous poster.

I had a gap but it was closed with braces and a plate. My dad had a gap as did my grandmother.

In regard to one or the other, would love to have seen both but my bets on Calpernia being in DA4 - especially if we head to Tevinter.

I had the Descent load but neither Trespasser or Jaws of Hakkon uploaded for me.

It's on tonight! As long as I can get buglet in bed before then I'll get to watch it!

 

There is a Bunwall mod.

 

Out of curiosity, do you live in southern California?  Maybe it's just my neighborhood, but I feel like I've seen a rash of manbuns in the last year or so.

No! But there are hipsters with manbuns aplenty downunder!

Regarding the Solas vs Blackwall comparisons, the intent of the poster matters. A lot of people are just stirring the pot. Others seem to have defective empathy glands. A few seem to think that being a total inflexible self-righteous jacka__ is somehow badass and cool or contributes to their street cred in some way. I'm an unrepentant Anders fan. I've seen it before. It's possible to hold intelligent, open-minded debates about characters without overlooking their flaws, and it's possible to be critical of characters you adore, but it takes a degree of maturity. You can usually tell the posts worth responding to because they focus on the characters and their motivations rather than hyperbolic comparisons to mid 20th century European political figures or player outrage. Me, I've always appreciated flawed characters, even deeply flawed ones. They're more interesting.

Yeah exactly, I have a fondness for deeply flawed individuals and their motivations, also the idea that 'good' characters can't have flaws means people a missing an extra layer of characterization that gives us more to talk about.

 

For some people it's much easier to think in black and white.

 

On to different things - I would have liked Blackwall to have had some of the things from his concept art, a few grey hairs, an earring, and I am overly fond of manbuns.

@solistace Hmmm, I had the banter unlock on an unromanced (male) inquisitor when I had sera and Blackwall with me, I might have had bull too in that party. Are there flowers on her desk? Has Leliana mentioned it at the war table? If the flowers are there you can actually talk to her about it and she tells you more.

Oh no, not you Gilsa, some things I read on tumblr people trying to stir the pot, it doesn't usually go anywhere but seeing pop up is damn annoying. I follow far too many people!

I'd talk more about Solas because I really like him, he's interesting on a lot of levels, lore, elves, power dynamics, but I Am critical of him as much as I am critical of Blackwall or any character I appreciate at multiple levels so I've been selective about which Solas fans I talk to about him because I'm wary about people treating me like crap because I love Blackwall too.

But anyway, just been a trying day in the fandom all round. I just want to have fun, not be insulted for a choice I make in a video game of all things.

As for my friends, they're okay, taking it far more diplomatically than I would. Kudos to them.

I will never understand, given the bigger themes and how the characters play out in the game, how people actually justify that one character is so much 'worthier' of redemption than another.

 

For me and my main OC, I will try and redeem Solas because Ciara is a compassionate soul, she lost Iron Bull because of the choices she made and she lives with that everyday. As long as she can stop Solas, she will try as much as she can to save him in the process.

 

I detest when people try and contrast characters to try and give legitimacy for shitty behavior of one over the other. I saw it with Cullen and Samson, I refuse to buy into the debate between Blackwall and Solas, because there is no debate. They are different characters with different arcs who have both done shitty horrible things. I will not be drawn into arguments about this, its petty and dumb.

 

You'll excuse how angry I am about this - but today I found out that people have been targeted for having different viewpoints about Solas - abusive anons for having their Lavellan character move on, others for still liking him or even loving him, yet being critical of what he has planned - then I heard through the grapevine through my friends who are Solasmancers someone sent death threats (of the 'go kill yourself variety) and I was sickened to my core. Then to top it off, people trying to drum up drama between Blackwall and Solas fans.

 

UGH fandom, stop, this behaviour is juvenile.

@Gilsa, I think that was a deal breaker for some on the romance front because it's kind of too goddamn real. And that's perfectly reasonable to have a reaction like that. I keep saying this, but Blackwalls betrayal is so personal. There is no greater good (like in Solas case where he has an agenda to his betrayal and always did), it's about him lying to you when he could have trusted you, opened up to you when you opened your heart to him. Personally I love the fact it really played on this in the game, kind of ripping your heart open enough to make you think about the consequences and whether the romance is worth pursuing.

I know someone who had created aninquisitor who couldn't read (or read well) so the issue of leaving something in writing for her felt extra cruel in this instance. I think she set this as part of her OC personality before she rolled that romance.

For me, every time someone goes off on him as a character being boring dull or ugly or too beardy I keep thinking, did you take him out in the field, did you talk to him in the barn? Did you play the same game as me? And then I don't care if people hate him because I get that wonderful scene where he looks up to my Adaar in Trespasser and they kiss. Honestly, Bioware taking time to fix the shrinking qunari animation blew me away.

Funniest tags I got on the gifs I made were - #touch it Blackwall, #touch that butt,# kiss ur tall wife

He looks a heap younger without the beard. With or without I am a fan, because if you were't paying attention to his eyes right from the start you were missing something!

 

 

Is it just me or does Blackwall seam like the kind of guy that when no one is around would walk around in "nothing" but a t-shirt and a pair of socks?  

haaa or just his underwear and nothing else. I was gonna say bull might too, then I thought, nah he'd just wear nothing. 

I know some of you aren't fans of beardless Blackwall, but I saw this today on Tumblr from lustandai and I am so compromised it's not funny.

 

@ Bugsie

Okay, that's definitely a bug, then. I'm sorry.

@ Gvalcha

Thanks for posting that! I totally missed it. After messing up my romance with Leliana in Origins by NOT exhausting her dialogue options before I started the romance, I became paranoid and have subsequently made a point of always poking my companions until they run out of things to say. I just can't win. At least now I've heard that dialogue and can just assume that he would have told my Lavellan those things after his judgment. So thank you again!

@ Bugsie and Scuttlebutt101

You guys are more merciful than I am. I actually gave Alexius the chop. Ended up being the only person I executed. At the time, my Lavellan was utterly horrified by what he'd done (and tried to do) and just didn't believe he'd ever redeem himself. She also worried that he'd eventually escape if she imprisoned him, what with him being such a powerful mage. If he'd shown any remorse, it would have stayed her hand, but he didn't. Thank goodness Dorian found it in his heart to forgive her and be her bosom friend anyway. That decision did add a bit of interesting poignancy to her romance, though, when she found out about Blackwall's past. It dawned on her that if she'd met Blackwall right after the Callier Massacre, she probably wouldn't have believed there was any chance of him becoming the person she met in the Hinterlands. And she would have been wrong. So she started to wonder if Alexius might have actually turned himself around if she'd spared him, and then she felt guilty.

all the villains are well layered in Inquisition. Alexius motive was personal (to save his son) and then when it doesn't work out the way he expects he closets himself away in Redcliffe castle I am a sucker for villainous f*ckups! Even Erimond the self righteous little creep, Florianne, Clarel and Ser Ruth (who were being manipulated) Samson, Calpernia. But I think if they all been moustache twirlers I'd have no issue chopping off their heads. I set most in service for the inquisition, but I also wanted to send them to prison to see if it gave me more dialogue. There is apparently some great banter between some of them and you get further insights into there character. Pity it's bugged.

The best villains always have some good in them and the best heroes some bad. Makes them feel real.

@gilsa, I think I got the dialogue unintentionally leaving a convo in that pre revelations dialogue.

@scuttlebutt that dude showed up for me in various places around Skyhokd (the first was the vault!)

Yeah I did, but now I remember I did have Gereon Alexius show up once, I even got pictures, but then he disappeared! You can sentence Ser Ruth to prison and when I tried she never did, also with Samson and he definitely never showed up.

Just speaking about judgements, but I have never had anyone in my jail, even after sentencing them there. Is this a known bug?

The only ones I know of are conversations with him in the barn - but if you're approval is really low it might not help and apparently if its so low after the first set of repairs to Skyhold, he'll leave.

 

Also certain non-main quests will get you approval, anything darkspawn related and the flowers for Senna quest in the Hinterland (as long as he's in your party).

 

But to quote Fitzwilliam Darcy "My temper would perhaps be called resentful. My good opinion once lost, is lost forever." I would say might sum Blackwall up 

Ha yeah not that risqué compared to some of the fanart I've seen! But I usually err on the safe side here. And even on tumblr I'm usually cautious because I sometimes look at it at work, I've got most NSFW tagged just in case!

I think Sera sums up my feeling towards most fem qunari, they are well fit they are! Going to be hard to go back to playing human if they tighten the narrative arc for DA4, Ciara has to be my favourite OC ever. I think I spend a lot of time gawking at her too!

Sorry I've been away on holiday so I didn't get a chance to post the image - I'll post a link rather than an image - as I said, a little too risque for the forums. 

 

Ciara Adaar and Thom Rainier (Art-by-g is the artist) it's NSFW-ish.

 

I also wrote a little ficlet to go with it (not posted here but you can read it on my blog if you want. I have a bit of running theme between Ciara and Blackwall involving apples, I took inspiration from 'La Pomme Vie et Morte' - the apples in Val Royeaux (which is why Ciara is offering him an apple). Especially the signs about the apples near the Cafe -

 

The apples nearest the cafe are said to change their taste depending on whether one is walking toward or away from the gallows. And of course they do, for taste is subject to the whims of the heart, and no meal is favored after tears. But dare it anyway, for none know the taste of joy such as we who do not shy from experience.

—From Our Orlesian Heart by (Formerly) Sister Laudine

 

And thanks for all those Blackwall tidbits Gilsa!! 

Unf. I had a post lined up, but I seem to have lost my train of thought for some unknown reason...

You may recover. One day. I've been scouring the Blackwall tag on tumblr and seeing some wonderful stuff I've never seen before. I don't usually browse the tags because asshats still don't know how to tag their hate. But that's something I rarely see.

 

I commissioned some art for my birthday (in August) from a really wonderfully talented artist. It took a while because the artist wasn't happy with the pose but I have been very patient and I think I will get it in the next day or two. It's not quite NSFW, perhaps a little risque, but if you would like to see I will link. Even the rough sketches had my heart racing with how lovely they were.

Oh that last shot is gorgeous!!!!

 

Love it!

 

And me, being ridiculous, people were talking about Blackwall being an old-fashioned strongman. So of course I had to use my suspect photoshop skills and oblige!