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I think all it did was set the tone for how you dealt with him. You either have an obvious and strong force, weakened by corruption and possible betrayals with a very obvious public face. Or  you have a spy army essentially, weak if you were going to out and out fight him.  My thinking would be - if you wanted to stop him and not kill him - it would be disband the inquisition and hit him with spies and trading favors. 

 

Though I think they may consider a multi-protagonists

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Also - I wasn't talking in the context of the scale of the crime, but of its nature. Blackwall's crime was a crime - pure and simple. I don't think however we can call creation of the Veil as something as straightforward, especially given that the outcome might have indeed been better than alternatives, even with its terrible cost.

Why did you pick this name, btw? It means sea in german and has always been one of my favourite words of my native language.

I am ashamed to admit it came from an old and unpopular anime. However, I learned the German meaning of the word some time later from a fluent friend, and decided to keep it since it does sound so lovely. c:

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

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Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of these people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

This, a thousand times this.

Completely unrelated:

 

Your icon is frigging adorable.  I want to hug her.

 

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Also, everytime you describe Solas' motives (like in this post) it add +100 to my feels and sadness.

 

Dammit, Egg.  Just make some friends in this world.

Thank you so much! She is incredibly cuddly. We call her Meer-vellan, haha.

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Yes, but Blackwall acted out of pretty much pure, unadulterated selfishness - he didn't want to kill the children, but eventually the greed pushed him to betrayal and fear to not telling his men they should stop as well as running away from his crime.

 

Solas, on the other hand, desperately tried to save the world and elves in however form possible. We do hear him say that creating the Veil because every other alternative was worse. It seems like he had little choice: the power-hungry Enavuris would apparently ruin the world to a point where nothing can be done about it. For all we know he SAVED the elves from something far worse - even if it meant the destruction of their civilization and turning them int shadows of themselves. At least it let them survive.

 

We don't know what happened that either made them so power-hungry or what they've done (aside form killing Mythal), but the picture painted by both Solas and snippets from codex entries don't appear pleasant. He may have either not foreseen how profound the effect of the Veil was, or accepted it as sad necessity (for a time?). And even if the situation with Enavuris is more complex than "Muahahahaha! Evil!" (Mythal was one after all, and Solas seems to - at the very least - greatly respect her), seeing sadness oozing out of Solas, I have to conclude that he was neither happy to create the Veil, nor he's happy to destroy it. He said it himself, and it is sadly true - sometimes there are no other choices. And even if there is one now on the horizon, it's either too faint for him to consider it, or Solas is too resigned into doing what he thinks must be done.

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While I agree the comparison was not optimal, I have yet to understand when doesn't Solas feel guilty and bad for creating the Veil? Feelings of guilt is pretty much what drives him to commit a second horror, in the hopes of repairing the first one. You do not get more sorry than that.

His methods are horrendous, but he pretty much hates himself for destroying what he once knew in such a horrible way. Then again, he tells it in a manner implying "he had no other better choice", which I tend to believe is right. After all, who knows what Thedas would look like nowadays, if he hadn't at least tried, in a very despicable way, but still try. Not to excuse his acts, but I very much doubt Thedas would be in a better place either.

The whole conversation is conjecture anyway. Based on opinions only, on characters in a game that aren't even fully realized. There is a time and a place to discuss the morality of using mental illness in art, literature, games, books, whatever, but that place is not here and the time is not now. 

 

Way more pressing issues to fight about anyway.

There is nothing wrong with taking a principled stance on such things. There should not be a difference of opinion when it comes to the utilization of mental illness in art. The end-all-be-all on the subject that sprinkling it on top of a character as some kind of intrigue seasoning is wrong. Portraying mental illness or giving people with them representation is wonderful--but this must be done with respect and sensitivity, not as some kind of "look how awesome this is, they've got an illness!" sparkle gel smeared on the surface of whichever character. It's not only weak writing, it can be dreadfully offensive.

And the last thing I'll say on the subject? This is an important issue, and a pressing one, and I think many people living with a mental illness (and those who've loved ones doing the same) would say so.

Yes!

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Re: Gaspard and expansionism

Think of the world he lives in. This is not modern Earth, but Thedas, whose societies attempt to mirror both medieval Europe and 17th century France (which is an issue, BIoware, but one for another time and place). Expansionism is a must. It is expected. One must think for the sake of their own nation, and how to extend its powers and influence to the greatest effect. Often, this means taking resources, be that land or people. In fact, for the most part, real world nations refrained from conquering one another for very self-serving reasons, not least of all preserving a balance: if a certain nation fell, that would mean the rise of another's powers, and that might not be great for the conqueror themselves. Modern morality has no place when considering such things. This not only is not earth, it is not present day.
 

Furthermore, I'd argue none of them are good for the elves. The best might be Briala on her own. But undeniably, each of our choices have done terrible things to elves.

Nothing wrong with Gaspard, if one wishes to empower Orlais. I might even argue Gaspard as the best choice. He has the support of the Chevaliers and thus the army, making him a powerful ally to the Inquisition (particularly during the conflict with Corypheus). Upon becoming Emperor, he crushes all internal opposition (thus solidifying his hold on the throne). Because he disdains the game, you can bet that its importance will be reduced under his rule, especially since he can so effectively remove his enemies. Also, If you perform the war table mission correctly, he makes peace with Fereldan and turns his attention instead to actual-threat Tevinter ™, where he wins victory after victory.

Winter is coming. Oh wait, it already came.

If it's another "spoils of..." DLC Im going to scream.

 

I think it's the Warden Banner draped over the corpse of Loghain(How many troll points do I get for hurting Meer, Moondrummer, and Illyria).

If you put it upside down it looks like Dorian's mustache. So maybe Dorian transforms into the undead magister he always was and calls to his brother the Architect in the deep roads and then loghain dies.

Loghain is dead in all my worldstates!  I think he's a complex and interesting character but also either dead because Alistair>Loghain or because he's Archdemon fodder.

https://plus.google....evvami2ma?hl=enNew Link.

For the time being we're testing out the other link:

https://plus.google....4rp6bp7vrbc3saa

It's working all right for now so we'll see!

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Accurate depiction of my relationship with Solas.

EDIT: Who let the Dread Wolf out, WHO, WHO, WHO, WHO~!?

GOOGLE EYE PARTY GO

No one puts Lavellan in the corner!

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I've missed, ma vhenan. Watching you from the Fade hasn't been sufficient.

Perhaps you'll find it in your hear to let me.. back in.

I think you'll find her to be...very forgiving. Just like Lavellan.

Hey guys! It's been a while since I posted to the thread. I've just been having so many Solas feels.

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Or it might be that, like Javik, he is a relic of the past and is the product of an ancient empire. He has wisdom that has been forgotten. But as open minded as he is, he still has a certian perspective from another era. I think that if we could go back in time IRL to meet some of the philosophers and political figures who paved the way for ideas about freedom, we would find a lot of problematic things about them by today's standards. Probably with every last one of them.

You'd be surprised. Many more were remarkably progressive, decent human beings. This idea that every historical figure must have been...at the very least, "problematic," never sat right with me. Many of the ideals we revere today as forward thinking and modern individuals were penned and aspired to hundreds of years ago. We still haven't gotten it right, either. Likely never will. Though the social mores of any given era and the mindset of the society in which a person might have lived ought always be considered when, well, considering a historical figure and their circumstances, what you mention here holds true for modern leaders and philosophers as well. No person in this world is sterling. Failings are to be expected no matter how far we advance. Even the most conscientious person stumbles into the problematic. This is because, as Kissiebear mentioned above, the reality of anything complicated (and people are complicated) is that it will never be black and white, opened and easily closed.

Solas is just another example of a flawed yet powerful individual whose intelligence, drive, and circumstances continually places him in a position where he may influence his people, outdated perspective or no.

Here is an excellent top 100 of most important books, as selected by 4chan; it's a darn decent list, found by our excellent Rabbit.

Do we have a broken link or is it just moi?

But I think - for that - you need someone that's more vicious.  Sometimes words don't get things done.  I thought softned Leliana would do it, but I think - for the long term - for the radical change she brings in. You need an iron fist. 

Regarding Leliana as Divine:

I believe whether she is ultimately successful hinges on the sort of society she introduces changes into. When you look at revolutions from a historical perspective, one of the determining questions for lasting changes tends to be: "Are the people ready?" For instance, with the American Revolution and those that came after, philosophers had already begun to wave the flag of liberty. Their words, written or shared in public, at dinners or in salons, helped people believe they could be free of kings. The idea was planted and took root. Of course there were a myriad of other factors in play, but the fact remains that public opinion is paramount when it comes to change. Just look at the difference between the American and French revolutions, the difference in approach, culture, and leadership. Washington to Robespierre, privileged colonists to long-oppressed peasantry, ready and not ready.

This is why my choice is often Cassandra, the moderate. I don't believe Thedas is ready for the radical changes Leliana wants to bring about, admirable as they are. Leliana and Vivienne share the same issue: can their successors preserve their ruling styles? Or will they be overturned at the cost of much blood?

Is he just too awesome to be in your party?

Probably.