*sneaks back into the thread*

*drops a chapter of fic. Waves hello*

*sneaks back out*

Chapter 7: In Which a Bride Awakes As from a Pleasant Sleep

Teaser: She is too conspicuous and yet beneath consideration; a spark burning brightly enough to ignite the tinder-dry tensions of the world, too small to drive the shadows back.

Read it here: http://archiveofouro...apters/13276972

I know, I just...I have some feels about this topic 

 

Like I said, totally fine for a creator of any sort to request no critical comments or feedback.  And on a work-by-work, creator-by-creator basis, I think respecting that request is pretty easy to do.  But I worry when avoiding criticism starts to become the default for a fandom, or a forum.  When the individual choice of "I don't want to hear criticism" becomes the collective agreement of "We shouldn't give criticism."  The attitude starts to change from "criticism is helpful" to "criticism is bad/hurtful/unwelcome."  People begin to assume that criticism is something negative to be taken personally, when it's anything but.

 

You only get better via criticism, whether that's being your own critic, or reading it from others.  Any fandom that develops a culture of shying away from honest critique is shooting itself in the balls, whether that creative collapse happens relatively quickly or over a course of years.

^This, All of this. 

It's not just good for the person receiving feedback either. It's good to be consuming media, all media, critically. And not tumblr "critical", I mean actual critical thought and analysis. It's good to be discerning in what you read and consume, to broaden your horizons. 

Apologies for interjecting with something slightly off topic, but I've a question for all you Solavellan writers: do you try to consistently write some of Solas' dialogue in iambic pentameter?

I personally have trouble with it, and it makes me feel a bit bad because I don't know if I'm doing his character justice by not throwing some IB in there, but, well... :/

he doesn't always speak in iambic pentameter. frankly i try to match the dialogue in game (you can listen to it on youtube) and ignore iambic pentameter altogether

New Chapter: http://archiveofouro...apters/12031631(NSFW)

Teaser:  “You know what I want,” she breathes, and nips his lower lip. One last gasp of sweet air, before the water closes over her head.

...well, that's super creepy! What fun! 

Thanks? I think? It's supposed to be? @_@

I have a new chapter up: http://archiveofouro...apters/11814458

teaser: perhaps absentee gods are preferable to ones who would dip their fingers in mortal blood to paint a more vibrant mural.

New Chapter: http://archiveofouro...apters/11596351

Teaser: He is taller than most men, far taller than she, and Ellorian knows his head must be bowed like a penitent at prayer for his hot breath to stir the fine hairs at the back of her neck.

Oops I wrote a thing. Post-Trespasser, Solavellan. Rated M (for now >.>)

http://archiveofouro...apters/11243533

hahaha I actually blame laurelinvanyar for helping me make the connection but I'd actually had occasion to watch the original video not long ago...

hey now! 

 

I took a look.  I knew immediatly it was the ace vs sexual Solas fans.

Poor guy. He deliberately gives people lines that are ambiguous and instead stopping arguments, it just makes more.

I was simply musing. We don't yet have the full picture - but we do know that death in Thedas is different than it is here. Spirits can also die as well - only to be recreated. We know some beings or spirits have ability to be 'reborn', while other can jump bodies. Therefore death in Thedas may have many meanings, or different results.

 

Spoiler

 

Well then why is Cole on a road to becoming human, if we choose that path for him? Why is Solas gushing over Lavellan's "rare and marvellous spirit"? Why are there quite a few codexes in elvhen destroyed library that suggest that elves indeed are quite spirit-like (not necessarily spirits per se, but close enough) and have shifting forms?

Also - the fact that spirits remained doesn't mean that personality of those who lived survived, ultimately meaning that what they were will eventually be destroyed - even if the potential of what they can be remained. And Solas is all about individuality and recognizing even spirits as sentient beings. Why then he wouldn't mourn people he intends to sacrifice - or at least mourn the fact that he ultimately does something he's very much against: robbing people of their choices and memories, even if only for the sake of transition or survival?

Spoiler

Remember how Solas talked with Cassandra about the Tranquil? How he said that the magic and connection with the Fade as well as control of emotions is like a muscle, and it atrophies without use? That restoring the Tranquil to previous state would likely kill them?

And that's just Tranquil who were sundered out of the Fade for some time, but not their entire life, while there are entire GENERATIONS of people (including elves) who have never had a strong connection to it. I think when the Veil drops, most people will experience what might be 'a magical overload' - the mostly unconscious connection of the Fade they have, with the rest being blocked by the Veil, it's too little to give them a protection before getting in contact with the raw Fade. Just like demons are unable to comprehend the real world, hence they appear monstrous and deformed, most people would likely not be able to comprehend the shifting nature of the Fade and their bodies will disintegrate.

 

Of course, there might be something else as well.

 

 

Notice that he didn't say that he'd restore the elvhen civilization. He said that he'd restore the world 'of his time' and 'of the elves', but not necessarily the elves themselves.

 

 

Um, how do you know he wasn't doing anything for modern elves  ? He said that he awoke a year before Cory and yet before that he seemed to have his network of agents, working towards his plan. He also said in base DAI that he tried to give elves and Dalish some advice, but was mostly rejected. Therefore I'm not sure why claim he's doing nothing, even if at that time he kept everyone alive in Thedas at a distance.

 

 

He also answered Inky why he's doing this for people he may still not view as his, even if they're about to die - to give the world some comfort and peace before the inevitable end. A calm before the storm.

 

I also assume he also has pretty pragmatic motives - war breeds demons and bad emotions, meaning more bad things happening to the Fade. The calmer things are, especially after calamity that was the Breach, the better for both worlds.

 

 

I think he was pretty clear about that  Question is what that 'death' means. Death of everything physical? I mean, it's pretty obvious at this point that everybody alive in this world begins as a spirit/has a spirit. It may yet be that what Solas plans is stripping everyone of their previous shapes and make them all like his people were before. Hence Sandal's prophecy - "everyone will be just like they were'. Which likely means spirit-like beings with shifting, half-physical forms.

 

...are we really going to debate what "death" means? lol

Spoiler

Well, I suppose all the elves who are actually working for him and maybe are even aware what he's planning may also feel hurt if they feel like he sacrificed everything - including them - for a woman he loved. He obviously loves Lavellan deeply, but he won't sacrifice the elvhen people just for his or her personal happiness. It would be way too selfish.

 

Also - would your Lavellan agree to this? If, say, Solas managed to just save her, or sacrificed many elves just to be with her? I don't think mine would ever be comfortable with this.

Spoiler

We were talking about what Solas thinks is a viable alternative, therefore the point still stands

 

We also don't know if, say, the Grey Wardens aren't really making things worse in the end, impending apocalypse or no. I recently finished a playthrough in which I asked Stroud in Skyhold why GW would even do such things as blood rituals or digging to remaining Old Gods. He responded that if it wasn't for his suspicions that it was Corypheus or other malignant force's meddling with the Order, he would be still following his leaders and digging out the Old Gods with the rest of Wardens.

 

Also, Solas tells, maybe even more than once that sometimes there are things that have to be done out of necessity, or that regrettable actions must be taken. Going against his own beliefs is probably a thing he's done more than once, even if he genuinely hates himself for it and thinks of himself as beyond redemption.

 

 

And nah, I hardly ever go very emotional during Internet conversations, though I suppose sometimes my language may imply that I do^^; I'm cool.

I fear we have been like 2 ships passing in the night, dear Midnight Tea. 

Spoiler

I think it'll be extremely interesting to see how Bioware will address this in DA4, in regards of what options are gonna be available about Solas. I definitely understand your train of thoughts, where it's coming from, and why. But I still persist in believing in having a positive impact, at one point or another, through repeated attempts. When I look on my own personal journey in this life, many times I got stuck somewhere, for a long period of time, but then managed to overcome that, thanks to the people around me, and thanks to luck, as well. But growth takes time, and it doesn't happen overnight.

Solas is way deep in his emotional cage, despite how rational he thinks he is, and that ISN'T something you overcome in the blink of an eye either. It takes time, patience, and caring.

 

I don't feel you (or anyone) should give up on him, just because one year with us wasn't enough to make him grow. Nobody knows how long should be enough, and nobody should pretend to, that's not a very healthy mindset to me.

To make a vaguely coherent parallel, it's like telling an addict "ho, you should be clean now", or telling a clinically depressed person "you should be over your depression by now". We're all different, there's no rule to how long one needs to grow/fix themselves. It is a very personal and variable thing.

 

Now, we'll agree about "how long/deep is enough/harmful enough", because him being depressed, and not getting over his emotional turmoil of fcking up the world has real deep impact to our world, one that can't be ignored or brushed aside eternally. So how long is enough, that's the real question.

A question that I can't wait for Bioware to answer, and that they, so far, tried very hard to keep as open as possible, redemption path clearly included. And that doesn't come from me, but from them, it's their own wish and their own doing (maybe done to be misleading, though).

I absolutely agree with you. People respond to different situations in their life differently. There's just one problem.

Spoiler

LOL, if it wasn't for Corypheus meddling, there likely wouldn't be any Gray Wardens or Circles in Thedas anymore. Whether we like it or not, Solas' plans aren't purely theoretical, or even that distant - he did already change the world once. He has either power or knowledge to do it again.

 

 

He said that he was deemed as a false god by false gods. Yet even those false gods seemed to have steered the fate of entire, super-powerful and fancy civilization. Hence, god or no, someone yet MAY carry the burden that may seem 'godly' and whether they are or must be watched is probably a question for later.

 

 

... Did I say anything out of line or seemingly emotionally charged  ? If so, I'm sorry - it wasn't my intention.

I'm out of likes. Take a everybody. 

Spoiler

While Blackwall did wrong, all of his endings point toward him doing good if you keep him involved with the Inquisition to some degree. He goes to those he's wronged and places himself at their mercy. No one can deny what he did is a crime. However, the scale is paramount. What is worse? Killing one innocent man for gold, or killing a thousand for what one person thinks is right, then killing a thousand more when that doesn't work out? Both are wrong. But one is still worse because the damage is so much more. Just because one crime appears more noble does not make it less a crime.

 

The thing is, with Solas, it isn't just a thousand people. These are whole societies at stake. Intent matters...but it tends to matter most in personal affairs. Whether your intent is a worthy one is also a matter of personal opinion. There must have been many elves, even slaves, in the empire who didn't want to die. The cruel alternative may have been better than death to them. But no one ever asked them what they wanted. Not unlike the other gods of the pantheon, Solas decided what was best for them. And he decided this was his will, whether a better option existed.

 

When the final cost grows too high, no remembers the intent. Just look at how the Dalish revile Fen'harel now, fair or no.

Spoiler

Let me be up front. I respect your optimism and your desire to seek any possible method of redemption before killing Solas. I will likely be addressing a few different viewpoints shared in the thread along with yours, so don't feel as if I'm trying to put you down specifically, if the rest of this post gets to be all over the place.

 

That being said, I disagree with the interpretation on his hesitation to turn back time and how much his guilt over creating the Veil could be used to influence his opinion on staying in this world vs the ancient one. Solas doesn't lack for compassion and (developing very late in the main story)  empathy for other people in current Thedas. His desire to provide some peace for people before he destroys this timeline is admirable, but ultimately doesn't affect his interpretation that this is a terrible future that should never have come to pass, but did because he felt there was no other option at the time. He doesn't hesitate to build personal power or find opportunities to groom the Inquisitor to acquire power themselves if it would benefit his ultimate goal.

 

Mythal is apparently one of his oldest and most respected friends, and yet he takes her power to suit his own ends because he believes it is one of the fastest ways to gain the power required to make sure he succeeds. He could have easily waited several more decades (or centuries) to acquire power by alternative means, and yet he didn't. After Corypheus was defeated, he could have taken a slower path. He's either in a panicked "putting out fires" mode, or he feels that something coming on the horizon would make it impossible for him to succeed. That may be a double dragon blight. That may be the Veil weakening in places where the pantheon are locked away. It could also just as easily be the risk of becoming too close and involved with people in general, to have too much empathy and see everyone as "real" for him to actually push the Nuke It From Orbit ^TM button.

 

Yes, he feels a burden for snuffing out the lives of an entire world so that he may restore the empire and people of HIS time, but ONLY if your Inquisitor is friendly with him. Solas is not quite so caring to an Inquisitor who has built enough disapproval to essentially "prove" to Solas that people in modern Thedas are brutish and unworthy. That close-mindedness, especially regarding his comparison to modern people = Tranquil, is not an alternate path we should ignore when talking about the possibility for redemption. Dread Wolf might have been a moniker given by the pantheon to dehumanize him, but Solas is not afraid to take up that mantle and mindset when he feels it is necessary. Unfortunately, "necessary" for Solas also seems to coincide when he's feeling super emotional in any degree. 

 

That kind of passion, that emotional drive, can be of benefit or detriment depending on how it's implemented. Solas' passions to help slaves be free of their masters and remove their Vallaslin is an example of something beneficial. Killing an agent/friend because they had a slight change in opinion about another faction, but was still in the process of fulfilling the original goal is an example of a detriment. That's panic right there. Panic that Felassen might influence other agents, or worse, defect and start working toward a way to prevent Solas from succeeding. Running to Mythal with his tail between his legs after his orb broke, and then taking her power (it doesn't matter if she knew it was coming) a minute later is also an example of an emotional bad decision.

 

In our upcoming conflict with Solas, what about Inquisitors who are not quite as invested in saving his soul? There WILL be people who will choose the death-is-redemption option, and there will be others who will only try once or twice to give Solas an alternate path to take. Solas made it pretty clear at the end of Trespasser that while he would welcome the chance for a friend/romanced Inquisitor to prove him wrong, he doesn't believe it will happen. Helping alter his view that all people in modern Thedas are equivalent to Tranquil is on an entirely different scale than "hey, don't do that thing which will restore your home, friends, family, and way of life to how it was before the Veil and allow you to try a different way to prevent the pantheon from being dicks."

By virtue of spending a year being immersed in modern Thedas, and actually being forced to interact with a group of people for 1-2 years, he would have already been on the path to seeing people as "real" without our Inquisitor specifically being there as additional influence. 

Spoiler

.... Or Vivienne has no grasp of how long-term plans Soals is capable of. And considering that he's an ancient elf - and possibly one of the most powerful beings ever...

 

First off - he does have an alternative to Gray Wardens, obviosly. He'd be reshaping the world in next few years, won't he? So plase don't tell me that he doesn't have any alternative plans, when all the way throughout Inquisition and even before it, he's secretly working on it the entire time.

 

Same with mages - didn't you catch it, that when Vivienne asked him what he'd do he responds "I'd kill them". Dunno if it was for you, but for me that exchange is significant in more than a few ways, especially that at the end of it Vivienne implies that to hunt all those mages individually, Solas would have to be both omniscient and immortal... Which he doesn't deny, MIGHT be his plan all along.

 

 

 

No, you only assume there's only fear and guilt. I mean... there obviously is, but it would be way too simple if it was just that, and if there's anything we can be certain of BW OR Solas is that things are never really simple.

Spoiler

I'm sorry, but I personally don't find "ending the modern world" a viable alternative to the Circle or not having wardens around I did indeed catch that Solas said he would kill mages who hurt others. But again, it's him claiming not to be a god while at the same time taking on a godly burden, that of being an all powerful omnipotent judge. Who watches the watcher?

 

Also

 

 

I prefaced ALL of that with "It's my own personal opinion". If you don't agree with me that's perfectly fine.  

Well, that should be cathartic for a lot of people:

Spoiler

http://bluebudgie.tu...lled-solas-like

LOL

I'm thinking Dragon Age: How it Should Have Ended youtube series. 

I am out of likes, but I agree. Also:

 

Spoiler

Nothing he does will actually repair what he has done in the past. It will not bring back the lives or the civilization he has destroyed. It will just destroy several more civilizations. He scoffs at 'human justice' when they are about to punish murder with another murder. Well, his idea of justice seems to be human justice to the n-th degree. 

 

Also: Did he replace some perfect world with some sort of complete hell? If the old world was so great, why did he have to create the Veil? There was magic, immortality, and great 'technological' achievements (if we consider magic to be part of the technology of Thedas). There was also slavery, vendettas, and wars that tore apart the Empire. 

 

Currently Thedas has circles, wars, stupid mages who corrupt spirits. There's also nugs, people who sing as they unite to fight for their home, people like Mother Giselle who help the refugees, good friends like Varric and Swan Pricesses of Awesome like Josephine. 

 

What will the world that Fen'Harel creates have? We don't even know, but my guess: just as much good and bad as any other world. 

 

Imagine you wake up one day and realize that your modern society had been replaced by something akin from the Dark Ages. Lots of knowledge, technology, and civilization gone, and you might be burned for saying the Earth is round. But people are people, they have love, children, friends, jsut like we have them today.

 

Is your solution going to be: Let's kill all of thisese people, so that my few surviving fellows can occupy the land and build anew?

 

Or would you go for: This is sad. I will do my best to make as many positive changes as possible. It will be a slow and painful process, and the end result will require more than my own effort, so this world might not end up exactly as I want it to. But I will do my part to improve it.

 

Think of it: He has so much power now. He has rallied agents behind him. If he used all this to change Thedas instead of annihilating it, wouldn't he be able to accomplish a lot?

 

Do you remember what Shepard says to the Illusive man at the beginning of ME3?

Spoiler

I don't think he ultimately does it on a basis that he doesn't like it. That is completely un-Solas, given that he's established as passionate, but ultimately very rational.

 

I think he does it, because he thinks that the word is already doomed. He DID say to Varric after all - the Grey Wardens bought them some time. Including him, obviously. Either the Blight or something else is already unraveling Thedas, and the only way to save anything is to push a giant reset button, likely just like before it was creating the Veil.

Spoiler

It's funny how Solas would hate to be called a god but he acts like one. The world didn't turn out how you wanted? Flood it and start again.

Spoiler

Yes, he's sort of becoming what he claims to hate the most.

 

I really wish Solas had actually listened to Varric when they had their banter. I think Varric must have been put in as the voice of reason to Solas's rash fatalism.

Spoiler

did i missed something or ppl now judging him for creating the veil too? WTF

Spoiler

My jaw just about hit the floor when I realized that I could talk Saren into shooting himself.  I hadn't found him terribly sympathetic before that, TBH, but in those final moments when he broke free of the indoctrination I almost cried for him.  If we get another Saren Arterius with Solas, I will be 1000% destroyed but so, so happy with the story if it's well done.

Spoiler

I think a part of him already knows that, so that's why he said he hopes to be proven wrong again.

Varric lays it out for us in banter way early on. "The best villains don't see themselves as evil. They're fighting for a good cause and willing to get their hands dirty."