19 réponses à ce sujet

[TheAzureVanguard]

I also want to kill off Jacob and Miranda on this one playthru.  Just to show The Illusive Man my utter disdain for his organization...lol.

I plan on having Jacob do the vents....
Side with Jack to have Miranda unloyal and then have her lead the 2nd team.

For Tali I plan on giving over her father's evidence...yeah I know it's brutal but this supposed to be my ultimate renegade and he's gonna be a douche.  However I want Tali alive for ME3 to see the consequences of my decisions....I think it will be far more interesting to view the reprecussions of turning over that evidence if she's alive.

Anyways if someone can help me figure out how to best keep Tali alive I'd be grateful.  Everyone else except Miranda and Jacob I plan on keeping alive as well. 

Well except the crew...I won't be escorting them back to the ship unfortunately...yeah I know brutal.  I'm gonna miss the doctor.

[FlyinElk212]

The problem with this plan, Azure, is that Miranda will NOT die as the 2nd team leader even if she is unloyal. She has unique spoken dialogue in the final segments of the suicide mission and thus must live until that point.

Therefore, you'll have to kill her by either taking her with you when you fight the final boss, or by leaving her on the "hold the line" team.

Herein lies the problem. As I recall, Tali is LOWER on the "hold the line" survival rate list than Miranda...that means if you leave Miranda and Tali on the line, the only way for Miri to die is if Tali dies as well.

I'm not entirely sure if it's possible for your scenario to occur, but this is your only shot: you'll have to bring Miri with you to the final boss (where she'll die), and leave loyal Grunt, loyal Garrus, and loyal Zaeed to hold the line. They are considered the "top 3" when it comes to power ranks in holding the line, and with their help, an unloyal Tali MIGHT survive.

However, I severely doubt it. Tali is extremely low on the survival rate list of hold-the-line-ers. (3rd? Maybe 4th w/ Kasumi?)

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 mars 2010 - 09:39 .

[Jack Package]

Unloyal Miranda dies only after the Reaper-Larva fight. The 2nd team leader at the beginning only affects the teammate in the vents. so no matter who it is, Jacob will die anyway and the teamleader will be fine.
If you have a unloyal Miranda as leader of the 2nd team (when you go through the seeker swarms) she will survive anyway (because of her supreme armor, I guess ). So as said, she has to go with you to the final fight.

To keep Tali alive: don't take her with you and don't assign her to any tasks.

The when the Team has to hold the line you should take Miranda and Mordin. Why Mordin? Because he has the weakest "hold-the-line" skill, and so if you take him with you, the average "hold-the-line" skill of the group that stays behind is increased. (However, I don't know if this is necessary to keep Tali safe, because a loyal Grunt and Garrus can keep even a unloyal Mordin alive.)

[Kurupt87]

FlyinElk has it spot on. Following his advice is the only way to do it, and like he says, unloyal Tali jumps infront of bullets so it still might not work. I agree with Jack too, bringing Mordin to the final fight will raise the average HtL score, assuming everyone is loyal (except the ones you want dead and Tali).

[FlyinElk212]

Actually, a combination of mine and Jack Pack's idea might work.

It's clear that keeping Tali alive involves shuffling around teammates for the hold the line (HTL) segment. No matter what you've gotta take Miranda to the Final Boss and leave Tali on the line.

But perhaps the biggest chance you can give Tali to live is by:
A. Leaving loyal Garrus, loyal Grunt, and loyal Zaeed on the line
B. Taking loyal Mordin with you to the boss
C. Possibly killing off other weak hold-the-line-ers to shift the HTL average (Jack, Kasumi)

Let us know how it turns out--I'm interested to see if it works.

EDIT: Approved by Kurupt! Thanks dood!! lolol

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 mars 2010 - 10:02 .

[Tlazolteotl]

The advice here is good .. but if it doesn't work, there's one last thing to try.

Keep everyone alive until the end, and bring unloyal jacob & unloyal miranda to the boss fight.

Having one extra loyal person to hold the line might tip the balance.

[Kurupt87]

Heh, no worries. I'll disagree with you about killing off weaker party members though. I'm pretty sure the HtL score is (for people not to die) a set value which you have to be higher than, and having dead squaddies who don't contribute at all screws you. So he's already weakened by not having Jacob alive for it.

Final contribution, lowering the games difficulty lowers the HtL value needed for everyone to survive, so putting it on the lowest (casual??) will help you get the ending you want.

[FlyinElk212]

Kurupt87 wrote...

Heh, no worries. I'll disagree with you about killing off weaker party members though. I'm pretty sure the HtL score is (for people not to die) a set value which you have to be higher than, and having dead squaddies who don't contribute at all screws you. So he's already weakened by not having Jacob alive for it.
Final contribution, lowering the games difficulty lowers the HtL value needed for everyone to survive, so putting it on the lowest (casual??) will help you get the ending you want.

Haha! To be honest, I'm not entirely sure if the HTL is an average or a set score. Somebody really oughta try this out.

I'm guessing it's an average based on the fact that loyal Mordin & loyal Grunt will both survive holding the line by themselves. Quoted from Dusty Everman: http://social.biowar...17936/2#1121084. Dusty even states that non-loyals COULD survive with the right group.

Maybe one day I'll test out the hold the line segment myself and make a thread about it's functions.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 mars 2010 - 10:22 .

[Tlazolteotl]

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's a combination of both.

Above a certain number, no one dies.

If someone has to die, squishy people have priority.

However, that number is increased slightly depending on how many are on the line, the value of which is higher than most non-loyals and lower than all loyals.

[Kurupt87]

Dusty Everman wrote...

...The score is tallied for all the team members that are holding the line...

Looks like you're right, my bad. Although devs have been wrong before. I'll leave you to test it.

[padaE]

Miranda is the hardest character to kill...

.

But you can make sure she dies just bringing her to the final boss fight.

[Malysoun]

Having less people total recruited seems to also affect hold the line. There's a large thread somewhere with a lot of info. On normal, the lowest number of loyals I've managed to save everyone with is 4, and that's without Kasumi and not recruiting Thane. I'm guessing you sold Legion?

[TheAzureVanguard]

Thanks for all the info guys! Love the responses.



I THINK I'm gonna try the convoluted way which ends with bringing only Miri into the final battle with Mordin. Only cuz it's funny to see Jacob get hit in the face by a rocket...lol. That guy annoys the crap out of me. So useless too.



IF that doesn't work I'll just bring them BOTH into the final battle and leave Tali with a good HTL group.



Once again I really appreciate all the responses...

[FlyinElk212]

Good luck, friend! I'm interested in knowing how it goes. I'd like that information for my "HTL" study I'm conducting.

It's about time we finally figured out how that damn thing works!

[OniGanon]

Erm, instead of taking Mordin into the final fight... why not just have him escort the crew back to the ship? And then maybe take Jack or Thane into the final fight with you.

[lastpawn]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...
For Tali I plan on giving over her father's evidence...yeah I know it's brutal but this supposed to be my ultimate renegade and he's gonna be a douche.  

Why is "ultimate renegade" = douche? The most renegade option during the trial is on bottom left. Handing over evidence is just being a dick.

[TheAzureVanguard]

lastpawn wrote...

TheAzureVanguard wrote...
For Tali I plan on giving over her father's evidence...yeah I know it's brutal but this supposed to be my ultimate renegade and he's gonna be a douche.  

Why is "ultimate renegade" = douche? The most renegade option during the trial is on bottom left. Handing over evidence is just being a dick.

You get the same amount of renegade points for either option...

I'm choosing the "dick" option because I'm sure it will have a major impact on the next Mass Effect.

That and in my 3 other Shepards I don't make that decision.   So basically I refuse to let Tali get exiled.  However in this renegade playthru I'm curious to see what the effects will be from having the Quarians divided and whether or not the warring factor or the peace faction will win.

[SmilingMirror]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

The problem with this plan, Azure, is that Miranda will NOT die as the 2nd team leader even if she is unloyal. She has unique spoken dialogue in the final segments of the suicide mission and thus must live until that point.

Therefore, you'll have to kill her by either taking her with you when you fight the final boss, or by leaving her on the "hold the line" team.

Herein lies the problem. As I recall, Tali is LOWER on the "hold the line" survival rate list than Miranda...that means if you leave Miranda and Tali on the line, the only way for Miri to die is if Tali dies as well.

I'm not entirely sure if it's possible for your scenario to occur, but this is your only shot: you'll have to bring Miri with you to the final boss (where she'll die), and leave loyal Grunt, loyal Garrus, and loyal Zaeed to hold the line. They are considered the "top 3" when it comes to power ranks in holding the line, and with their help, an unloyal Tali MIGHT survive.

However, I severely doubt it. Tali is extremely low on the survival rate list of hold-the-line-ers. (3rd? Maybe 4th w/ Kasumi?)

What usually happens is Tali survives because the tanks absorb all the fire, therefore you lose your loyal characters instead.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Okay well I'm gonna try it out and see what happens. Hopefully it won't turn out like you say.



I had unloyal Zaeed in a group of loyal people and he survived. I hadn't even done his loyalty mission.



My favorite characters are Miranda, Grunt, Samara, and Thane. I love Tali and Garrus of course. However since I've got 4 different Shepards already I want to switch things up a bit.



I just hope Grunt, Garrus, Samara, and Thane survive along with Tali. The rest can die.