284 réponses à ce sujet

[Tankfriend]

uzivatel wrote...

Tankfriend wrote...

(completely different apart from the absolutely most basic thing)

I think you would be surprised how similar most Volkswagen cars actually are.
Its like the they are selling many variants of 4 cars. 

Comparing two of those 4 completely different general designs still doesn't work, though.
Anyway, that's not what one can do with the editions of a game because they're only different in the extra details.

Modifié par Tankfriend, 29 mars 2010 - 10:09 .

[eternalnightmare13]

Yes, I will.

[We Are Harbinger]

Yeah, Mass Effect games are hard to mess up

[phordicus]

i have reconsidered my position.



i will gladly pay for a game that requires a constant online connection as long as the game publisher pays me for the connection itself. my monthly ISP bill will be neglible or nonexistant after that.

[Michel1986]

xDarkicex wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

Arlind Webb wrote...

I will still buy it. I always have an internet connection up so that's no problem for me. For anyone that has played a MMO this shouldn't be an issue either.

So your actually saying that people who have played a mmo should put up with potential connection woes for a single player game? Seems kind of silly to me.

Yeah I say F the game pirates, if their where not some many pirates maybe PC gamers would still get DLC free like it should be, stopping them is the only way to save PC game to many Devs are just saying screw it and only making Console games

Like people can't pirate console games . The only console that is not hacked/cracked is the playstation 3.

[We Are Harbinger]

Michel1986 wrote...

Like people can't pirate console games . The only console that is not hacked/cracked is the playstation 3.

Thats, uh, not 100% accurate... sir...

[Selor Kiith]

I can't believe that there are still people that are SO naive to think this DRM crap is actually preventing piracy and that it was made against piracy in the first place...

I mean... the only thing this crap prevents is, that those who actually bought first of all can't sell it again so that (in the twisted minds of publishers) everyone that wants the game has to buy a new copy (which means profit, 2nd Hand Games do not give profit) and that those people that bought it are bound to this publishers service...

This is all just to control the customer... constant connection means that they exactly know when we play (and it surely does not just stop there) they can place adds into the game via connection etc. and again that the customer is in the hands of the publishers because only they can provide the ability to play (meaning: If they don't want it, they shut down the respective servers and voilá).

Modifié par Selor Kiith, 29 mars 2010 - 11:18 .

[Srau]

Selor Kiith wrote...

I can't believe that there are still people that are SO naive to think this DRM crap is actually preventing piracy and that it was made against piracy in the first place...

I mean... the only thing this crap prevents is, that those who actually bought first of all can't sell it again so that (in the twisted minds of publishers) everyone that wants the game has to buy a new copy (which means profit, 2nd Hand Games do not give profit) and that those people that bought it are bound to this publishers service...

This is all just to control the customer... constant connection means that they exactly know when we play (and it surely does not just stop there) they can place adds into the game via connection etc. and again that the customer is in the hands of the publishers because only they can provide the ability to play (meaning: If they don't want it, they shut down the respective servers and voilá).

+1
Gluttony is bad.

[StingingVelvet]

I feel really secure buying Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 content because of the lack of DRM... all these little add-ons and such will always be there as long as I keep backups, which is nice to know.



If ME3 has a wacky DRM scheme I would probably still buy it, I bought ME1 after all, but I would not invest in the DLC and such if it were similarly protected, and I would send a nice letter to Bioware and EA asking them why I have to put up with it.



Why hasn't ME1 had the DRM removed in a patch? That's what I want to know. Years after release, the game has been on sale for $5 several times and I still have limited activations? Really?

[Voidlight]

Arlind Webb wrote...

I will still buy it. I always have an internet connection up so that's no problem for me. For anyone that has played a MMO this shouldn't be an issue either.

I play WoW, but I won't buy any single player game that only works when connected to the internet.

This is because MMOs are not products. They are (often paid-for) services. The actual gameplay of the MMO requires interaction with a server, otherwise it simply won't play. I subscribe to WoW with the full knowledge that I am paying for the right to access a service that is dependent on the publisher's servers.

A single player game is NOT a service, no matter how the publishers spin it. It is a product (and license) that you make a one-off payment for. All the actual data and gameplay runs on your PC, and it does not require online interaction except for multiplayer. Or copy protection.

It's like comparing Netflix streaming to buying DVDs, or internet radio to MP3 files.

Besides, one of the great things about single-player games is that they can be enjoyed during internet outages. Removing that facility is unforgivable.

[TallonRoe]

Voidlight wrote...

Besides, one of the great things about single-player games is that they can be enjoyed during internet outages. Removing that facility is unforgivable.

This.

I absolutely would not, if I had to maintain a constant Internet connection. My connection is *always* wonky and keeping a solid connection for whole session of gameplay is rare. I'm already pissed enough that too many of my games require a connection just to start up.

[Daeion]

It's not specifically a DRM, it's just that everything is stored server side instead of client side and there's a leveling mechanic built into the game so this way they can make it harder for people hack the leveling component which affects gameplay.

[Darkstar87uk]

When I received Bioshock 2 the net was down for maintenance so I played it offline and unable to save or load.  
People are sick of this hassle and turning to console games.  Another thing that bugs me the most is how all my local 2nd hand pc game stores have shut down.  Years ago you could part exchange games but now that has all gone. 

Modifié par Darkstar87uk, 30 mars 2010 - 12:28 .

[sonofalich]

i save constantly so the problem of lost progress due to an internet issue wouldn't hound me, so yes i'll still buy it.

[Brp650]

AC2 has not been cracked. Silent Hunter 5 on the other hand..has

If EA add a DRM AND thir servers are 1000x better than UBIsoft, i might consider it. My experience with AC2 thus far sucks. Had the game for 2weeks now, have been able to play it three times.



If EA implements a DRM..careful what you say about the company, your new ME3 game will become a coaster

http://forum.ea.com/...ist/419414.page

[ThePasserby]

Brp650 wrote...

AC2 has not been cracked. Silent Hunter 5 on the other hand..has
If EA add a DRM AND thir servers are 1000x better than UBIsoft, i might consider it. My experience with AC2 thus far sucks. Had the game for 2weeks now, have been able to play it three times.

If EA implements a DRM..careful what you say about the company, your new ME3 game will become a coaster
http://forum.ea.com/...ist/419414.page

So if you violate the forum rules, you'll be banned from the forum AND the games registered under that account? Interesting. Just one more reason not to pre-order any games under EA.

Even though the first post mentions that EA has clarified that they are not doing this, I'm not fully convinced that they haven't done something similar and will not do so again.

[Landline]

My internet is simply not reliable enough to maintain a constant connection, hell while playing DA:O I keep getting the "unable to connect to servers" message in game.



I simply won't buy it until the thing has been corrected.

[TuringPoint]

 Depends on my internet connection, and if it's the same for the 360 version.  Because I won't bother with the pc version.

[CatatonicMan]

You know, DRM isn't really designed to stop piracy, since that is basically impossible; its main goal is actually to keep the game from being cracked for as long as possible.



The idea there is that the bulk of the game sales happen in the first few weeks. If you can keep a cracked version off the web for that critical time, you can prevent the majority of the playerbase from the temptation to pirate. Everyone who wants to play the game - but doesn't want to pay - will wait to steal it when it becomes available, but you can keep the majority of consumers honest.



Now, since we've established that DRM is basically designed to work for about a month after release, wouldn't it make sense to remove (or reduce) the strict, difficult to crack DRM in a patch, and possibly replace it with something mild (say a CD check) of anything?



If the super-DRM the game started with is cracked, there is really no need to keep it around to bog down the legit players. As a bonus, anyone who objects to said DRM (and who hasn't stolen the game by then) will have no further reason not to buy. Everyone wins in the end.

[Magister Lajciak]

I still cannot find any sales data for Command & Conquer 4, Assassin's Creed II or the other games from the new DDRM crop. The only thing I have found that might be remotely indicative is a chart of players on Steam:

View Steam players per game

Top 75 games by current player count
  Current Players Peak Today   Game
 
  53,238  96,304    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer 
  53,172  91,866    Counter-Strike: Source 
  43,428  76,097    Counter-Strike 
  17,568  23,976    Team Fortress 2 
  16,748  23,401    Football Manager 2010 
  16,059  21,979    Battlefield: Bad Company 2 
  11,604  17,565    Left 4 Dead 2 
  6,491  10,692    Empire: Total War 
  5,600  9,937    Napoleon: Total War 
  5,546  7,618    Garry's Mod 
  5,241  9,080    Condition Zero 
  4,595  10,551    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 
  4,272  6,239    Torchlight 
  4,255  6,463    Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising 
  3,598  5,261    Left 4 Dead 
  3,491  6,166    Day of Defeat: Source 
  3,457  5,059    Football Manager 2009 
  3,252  5,130    R.U.S.E. Beta 
  2,696  4,330    Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II 
  2,460  3,737    Dragon Age: Origins 
  2,227  3,441    Just Cause 2 
  2,138  3,535    Supreme Commander 2 
  1,373  2,509    Half-Life 2: Deathmatch 
  1,371  1,942    Killing Floor 
  1,258  2,077    Half-Life 2 
  1,151  3,437    Metro 2033 
  1,089  1,618    Day of Defeat 
  927  1,342    Mass Effect 2 
  893  1,217    Grand Theft Auto IV 
  881  2,010    Aliens vs Predator 
  858  1,380    Borderlands 
  801  1,047    Global Agenda Live 
  759  1,165    Star Trek Online 
  712  731    Mount&Blade: Warband 
  688  935    Plants vs. Zombies 
  658  924    America's Army 3 
  637  899    Portal 
  548  864    Assassin's Creed II 
  538  898    The Settlers 7: Paths to a Kingdom 
  524  813    Mass Effect 
  505  723    Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword 
  498  715    Mount and Blade 
  488  645    Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor 
  449  771    TrackMania Nations Forever 
  440  628    Zombie Panic! Source 
  416  645    Half-Life 2: Episode Two 
  389  887    RACE 07 
  381  499    EVE Online 
  376  897    Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 
  371  552    Rome: Total War - Gold Edition 
  359  557    Company of Heroes 
  350  451    Titan Quest: Immortal Throne 
  334  607    Saints Row 2 
  327  499    Insurgency: Modern Infantry Combat 
  311  509    Half-Life 2: Episode One 
  300  434    Half-Life 
  299  410    S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat 
  287  385    Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts 
  276  443    The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition 
  272  374    Global Agenda - Demo 
  271  378    Medieval II: Total War 
  261  433    Pirates, Vikings, and Knights II 
  243  306    Team Fortress classic 
  232  323    Audiosurf 
  225  338    League of Legends 
  224  351    Sid Meier's Civilization IV 
  221  416    Batman: Arkham Asylum 
  220  352    DiRT 2 
  219  295    Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 
  219  285    Battlefield 2 
  214  361    Command and Conquer 4: Tiberium Twilight 
  213  308    Defense Grid: The Awakening 
  208  268    EVE Online Demo 
  207  367    RailWorks 
  200  414    F.E.A.R. 2: Project Origin

The table is from about 6pm EST 29 March 2010. The bolding in the table is mine - I bolded both Ubisoft games with this DDRM - Assassin's Creed II and Settler's 7. Another Ubisoft game with the DDRM is Silent Hunter 5, but it does not appear in the top 75 games played today. I have also bolded Command and Conquer 4, which is a DDRM game by EA also requiring an always online connection.
I would say the numbers are rather unspectacular, given that Assassin's Creed 2 was released about 3 weeks ago, Settler's 7 was released 6 days ago in North America and 3 days ago in Europe. Silent Hunter 5, I believe, was released about 1 month ago. EA's Command & Conquer 4 was released on 16 March 2010, so just under two weeks ago.
However, this is only an indication that sales might not be stellar for a game release of that magnitude - it does not act as a confirmation by any stretch. For that we will have to wait for some sales numbers and those can be hard to come by (and can be interpreted in different ways).

Remember that C&C is a popular EA franchise and previous versions of the game have sold millions of copies. Yet, Dragon Age: Origins has more than 10 times the player numbers on Steam than C&C 4, despite the fact that it is a significantly older game and despite the fact that it probably didn't sell as many copies as previous versions of C&C. Sure, Steam players at one time are not the same as sales, but it might be an indirect indication of what is happening here.

Of course, EA has achieved the perfect storm with C&C 4 if it wished to kill the C&C franchise - it butchered the gameplay AND implemented a horrid DDRM system. Hopefully, they will not push Bioware to do the same. I am optimistic, but we need to watch out.

[Brp650]

Steam stopped carrying AC2 and SH5 because of the drm. SH5 sales have dropped drastically and the price has been cut almost in half. Gamestop has been taking copies of SH5 and AC2 for refunds with no questions asked, odd for gamestop. I can report that i was able to play AC2 for an astounding 25 minutes before being kicked from their servers.

I can understand the need to protect their investments with some sort of way to their games off the torrent sites, but when doing so with the new DRM, it is hurting those who purchased the games legally.

[Loerwyn]

mrfoo1 wrote...

@magister lajciak

C&C is an EA title specifically, or is it created by a subsidiary like Bioware?

C&C, as a series, was originally created by Westwood Studios. They got fully absorbed into EA, I think, around the time of Red Alert 2/C&C Generals. So the games are now, to my knowledge, created by an EA studio.
BioWare are also an EA studio now, but they've retained their original name (i.e. BioWare).

Also, for the above table? The EU never got Assassin's Creed 2 or SH5 on Steam (whereas I believe they were withdrawn in the US), so there's a market missing for those 2 games.

As for DRM? Doesn't bother me. I think EA would be stupid to use it again, as UbiSoft would be (and it's annoying because they have the Might & Magic franchise). I seriously doubt that Mass Effect 3 and the others will carry it, just seems like a shot in the foot. My net connection is pretty stable, so it won't really bother me but I think it's incredibly unfair on other players who don't have the same luxury.

[Hathur]

I was going to buy Assassins creed 2 for PC (I bought the original game for pc).. but quickly stopped when I read about the stupid constant online connection required... I knew it would cause problems... days after release on PC, sure enough there were disasters all around with their servers and people unable to play a single player game.



Also, I don't have a stable DSL connection, it cuts out for a few seconds several times a day (hence why I don't play mmos.. I'd keep getting kicked out of the game)... I'd lose my mind trying to play a single player game and constantly losing progress due to my lame net connection.



I doubt ME3 will use this draconian new DRM... but if it does, sadly I won't be able to get the game

[mispelinsuks]

I will not ever purchase any game from any company that uses any form of anti piracy that hurts the honest people buying the game. I for one am glad to see some people standing up against some of these issues . To many people in this day and age do and say nothing...and thats just like giving these companys a free pass to do what they want.