284 réponses à ce sujet

[OneBadAssMother]

ThePasserby wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

Damn wtf? That would just seriously suck. So meaning if I had to cancel my connection for my internet, then bought ME3 that went DRM, I wouldn't be able to play it, even offline single player (which there only is)?

If it is implemented in the form that's in AC2 and C&C4, then yes. But in reality, you'll still need internet connection for Cerberus Network's free DLC items. Most players will have internet connection, but it's the requirement of constant connection that makes it too much of a hassle, and for many, it is a matter of principle too. Why should legitimate players be penalized just to hinder the pirates?

BTW, if this is about the ME2 DLC-online-only thing. It's confirmed as a bug by Bioware here on this forums.

EA says the contrary however, and I'm getting the feeling the two are going "WTF" atm.

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 27 mars 2010 - 06:07 .

[MajikMan77]

If ME3 was released with the draconian 'security' feature of requiring a continual internet connection, then I would sadly not support Bioware's hard work and not buy it on PC. I'm all for development teams trying to protect their product but not at the cost of reducing the number of people that can play it.

Best spending money on improving internal security within the company / CD factory and making secure copies when given to the press to review instead.

[ThePasserby]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

Damn wtf? That would just seriously suck. So meaning if I had to cancel my connection for my internet, then bought ME3 that went DRM, I wouldn't be able to play it, even offline single player (which there only is)?

If it is implemented in the form that's in AC2 and C&C4, then yes. But in reality, you'll still need internet connection for Cerberus Network's free DLC items. Most players will have internet connection, but it's the requirement of constant connection that makes it too much of a hassle, and for many, it is a matter of principle too. Why should legitimate players be penalized just to hinder the pirates?

BTW, if this is about the ME2 DLC-online-only thing. It's confirmed as a bug by Bioware here on this forums.

EA says the contrary however, and I'm getting the feeling the two are going "WTF" atm.

Nope, the bolded part refers to the system used in C&C4  and AC2. I don't even know about the statements by Bioware and EA you mentioned.

But based on what you said, we can only hope that this is the extent of EA's DRM on Bioware games.

[OneBadAssMother]

C&C4 was released similar to the time ME2 was released. But ME2 can be played offline.



That's a good sign as well. Hence while I'm concerned, I can sleep easy knowing Bioware still has a say in the final output of their games.

[Symbolz]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

C&C4 was released similar to the time ME2 was released. But ME2 can be played offline.

That's a good sign as well. Hence while I'm concerned, I can sleep easy knowing Bioware still has a say in the final output of their games.

I think C&C4 might be a test case.  To see what kind of backlash they'll get with the DRM.  I'm hopeful, but I'm not holding my breathe. 

[Kronner]

Whatever, if they put this DRM to ME3, I am just gonna download pirated version - no worries about this stupid DRM.

[jbadm04]

vhatever wrote...

I won't buy any single player game that forces me to be online when I play, doesn't matter what the game is or who makes it.

and this

[aaroxmi]

ThePasserby wrote...
Why should legitimate players be penalized just to hinder the pirates?

People have been saying this for years and they still don't get it (especially ubisoft), people who pirate games crack these things in a few weeks and then play them for free while people who pay for these products are forced to jump through hoops just to play a game that to be honest they don't even own since the DRM is telling you when you can and cannot play the game.

After a while I figure these people would just say "I'm done with this crap, why should I pay these companies to screw me over when I can just pirate the games and play them without getting hassled by the DRM.

[Darth Drago]

ThePasserby wrote...

Hmm ... I'm wary of having to use torrent to download cracked games. Anyway, on a related issue, has anyone noticed if the box for the PC version of AC2 and C&C4 warn potential buyers of the DRM used and the constant connection requirement? I know that many MMOs inform the consumer of the need for internet connection to play. But it seems that most consumers would not even be aware of the DRM used for the games before they buy.

-I tried looking it up on Amazon.com to see if they would show the back of the box but no such luck. I did look at the reviews of the game by htose who played it and 94 out of 101 rate it a 1 star game. (2 for 2 star, 2 for 3 star, 2 for 4 stat and 1 for 5 star).

A quote from the reviewer on the top of the review list:

“BATTLEFIELD CONTROLS OFFLINE? YOU'RE SCREWED COMMANDER!
Yes, this must be the most inconvenient DRM scheme ever.
If you hate STEAM for requiring endless updates, this is worse.
If you hate games that require online activation because they never actually become yours, yes, this is worse.
And if you hate games that come with Limited Activations and become worthless the moment you pop the box, well yes, this is worse.
This inconceivable scheme demands for the owner of this game to always be online to verify that the copy he payed for is legitimate. That's right, not just activation, ALWAYS ONLINE. Yes, even for a single player game.
Will it deter piracy? No, pirates will be playing the game without all those DRM hassles. Legitimate gamers are left complaining - and, once more, EA will turn a deaf ear.”


*still think you should change the title to this topic to include Future Mass Effect Games just so it doesnt get locked and redirected to "Off Topic Land"....

Modifié par Darth Drago, 27 mars 2010 - 06:44 .

[danien.grey]

If you can play a game, it can be "cracked".  Publishers need to understand that the only way to fully protect their IP is to not release it to the public.  This sounds silly I know, but it's the truth.

The best DRM model I've seen is used by Stardock Entertainment.  People who know what I'm talking about are snickering because there is no DRM on their product.  However, in order to download content updates and patches, you need to authenticate with them.  In my opinion this is the best model as there is a good incentive to buy the product legally and they do not punish their legitimate users with intrusive DRM.

I would not approve of the system used with C&C 4 to be used with Bioware games.  I would even go so far as to say I would not be purchasing future Bioware games if that occured.

[EternalWolfe]

aaroxmi wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...
Why should legitimate players be penalized just to hinder the pirates?

People have been saying this for years and they still don't get it (especially ubisoft), people who pirate games crack these things in a few weeks and then play them for free while people who pay for these products are forced to jump through hoops just to play a game that to be honest they don't even own since the DRM is telling you when you can and cannot play the game.

After a while I figure these people would just say "I'm done with this crap, why should I pay these companies to screw me over when I can just pirate the games and play them without getting hassled by the DRM.

This - its becoming more and more common for people, even those who bought the game, to use cracks to take off these 'anti-piracy' measures, because they interfere with the game itself.  Punishing actual consumers by doing something that pirates can get around easily, just doesn't work - you only prove the pirates have the better deal in the end.

[Hellhawx]

This is where I am glad I am a console gamer. Microsoft sets the DRM rules and its pretty basic. Insert Disc and play (online or offline). Pirated games only work on Flashed Xbox 360s, but if you play online, your console gets permanetly banned from playing online and sometimes the account too.

[aries1001]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

If ME3 requires full-time connection to the internet then I will certainly not buy it. This is a single player game and internet has nothing to do with it.

Edit: It is also supposed to have a MP game mode, right? At least I've read that. That makes ME3 even a less intersting option as it will certainly damage the single player experience.

EA Plans Online Play, DLC For All New Titles
Publisher looking to rake in the bucks.

By Jim Reilly

February 8, 2010 - Gamers better get used to buying additional downloadable content in their EA games.

Electronic Arts chief operating officer John Schappert announced during the company's fiscal third quarter investor call this afternoon that every title released during its fiscal 2011 year (April 2010 through March 2011) will have additional online components.

"In fiscal 2011, every one of EA's releases will have an online component, both downloadable content and online play."

One of EA's major titles, Dead Space 2, has already been confirmed to having some form of multiplayer. What this could mean for the new Dragon Age title planned, as well as the new title from Epic Games, remains to be seen.

Source: EA Plans Online Play, DLC For All New Titles.

There is a difference between being able to play online through the internet and the game requiring you to be constantly connected to the the internet. For DLC, free or not, you will of course have to be connected to internet (for now anyways). And might I remind you all that Baldur's Gate had multiplayer, a very limited multi-player. On top of that, you could also plan LAN-games (gameswhere you hook computeres up to the same local area network).
This is some sort of online play as well, I'd guess.

As far AC2 and Unisoft goes, it seems (and I have gotten confirmation here and elsewhere) that the always-connected-to-the-internet drm only is being used on PC games. On consoles, it isn't used. I sure hope that Mass Effect 3 won't be using the always connected to the internet drm method. And if (and then that's a big if) allows people to save before people losing progress in their game, or that the game auto-saves when and if the connection drops.

And I have said this before, but I will say this again:
EA's executives (maybe Bioware's, too?) seem to think that because they have fast, vey fast broadband connections, everyone else in the world does so, too. Not true. There are places, even in Denmark, where people only have a modem connection, and if they have an internet connection, it is probably either 128 mb or a 256 mb.
Or maybe a 1GB connection. And these are often placed in the boonies in the country. In other countrirs, Norway, Sweden, UK, and Canada and the US, people also have throuble maintaining reliable internet connections. Also, peope that are out in the boonies in the country.

To these people, having a constant internet connection to play their (single player) game, will mean a) their ISP roof will quickly reach its limit or they can't  play the game at all. And for the men and women who serve in the military and whose only (nearly) relaxation is to play games, this will mean that they can't play any of the newer games as ISP is paid by the minute.

As for EA and Bioware online play for dlc, I don't quite understand this? It is Bioware who've made the dlc and written the code for it? If this is so, then shouldn't it follow logically that the code won't allow people to play dlc online? even if EA says it is supposed to be like this?

Looking into the future, there is no doubt in my mind that what EA, Ubisoft etc. are aiming at is this: Have every gamer upload his or her save to the cloud (as in cloud-computing), and maybe even have every gamer download the game directly (or maybe stream directly) from EA's servers. In the future that is...

The problem with this is that this demands a totally new type of internet where information is being transferred by light instead of what it is being transferred as now (radio-signals?)

Luckily, I won't be having any problem if and when this comes to pass. I still have about 50.-60 (or maybe 100) games, I haven't played yet. All games that can be played without being constantly connected to the internet.

In closing, I would like to add that it seems to me that EA hasn't learned anything from the faiulure that was Spore.

[ThePasserby]

Darth Drago wrote...


-I tried looking it up on Amazon.com to see if they would show the back of the box but no such luck. I did look at the reviews of the game by htose who played it and 94 out of 101 rate it a 1 star game. (2 for 2 star, 2 for 3 star, 2 for 4 stat and 1 for 5 star).

A quote from the reviewer on the top of the review list:

“BATTLEFIELD CONTROLS OFFLINE? YOU'RE SCREWED COMMANDER!
Yes, this must be the most inconvenient DRM scheme ever.
If you hate STEAM for requiring endless updates, this is worse.
If you hate games that require online activation because they never actually become yours, yes, this is worse.
And if you hate games that come with Limited Activations and become worthless the moment you pop the box, well yes, this is worse.
This inconceivable scheme demands for the owner of this game to always be online to verify that the copy he payed for is legitimate. That's right, not just activation, ALWAYS ONLINE. Yes, even for a single player game.
Will it deter piracy? No, pirates will be playing the game without all those DRM hassles. Legitimate gamers are left complaining - and, once more, EA will turn a deaf ear.”


*still think you should change the title to this topic to include Future Mass Effect Games just so it doesnt get locked and redirected to "Off Topic Land"....

We need more reviewers to comment on the DRM used like this one. I won't be surprised if most of the players bought without knowing what DRM is used.

And good idea on the title change, thanks.

[the_one_54321]

ThePasserby wrote...
EA's editor has slammed the new DRM system used by EA on Command and Conquer 4.

You can read this short article here: www.videogamer.com/news/ea_slams_its_c_and_c4_drm.html

With this new DRM system, the player has to have his/her internet connection up always. Losing it even for a moment results in the game being forced back to the main menu and all progress, presumably from the last save, lost.

What if ME3 were to use this DRM as well? If EA forces it on C & C 4, chances are, it mightl foist it on ME3 as well. Would you still buy the game?

I didn't buy Assassin's Creed II and I won't buy this either, or any other game that has this kind of system. I won't even buy the console version so as to drive the point home.

Publishers need to get it through their heads that these kinds of systems just make the problem worse. They're losing sales, not saving them.

[the_one_54321]

aries1001 wrote...
Source: EA Plans Online Play, DLC For All New Titles.

These guys just don't want my business.

If this comes to pass, RIP BioWare. We knew thee well.

[aries1001]

Jeff Green (a blogger from EA) has tweeted about this. Apparently, he, too lost his internet connections. Via Blues News and Maximumpc - here's conclusion:

So, videogame publishers of the world, do we have this “always-connected DRM” phase out of our systems yet? Because if you’re expecting our anger to cool while we warm up to your DRM over time, it’s not gonna happen. It’s like when little kids are playing, and one of them adds a series of increasingly ridiculous, self-serving rules to the game. You know what the other kids do? They find a new friend.

source: http://www.bluesnews.../ea-on-c c4-drm and http://www.maximumpc..._giving_ea_fits ' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://www.maximumpc..._giving_ea_fits



Come to think of it, this is exactly how we reacted to such things when I was playing with the other children as I was in kindergarten, at school or at home. I hope I do not need to find a new friend...as pr. Jeff Green above...

[Raygereio]

aaroxmi wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...
Why should legitimate players be penalized just to hinder the pirates?

People have been saying this for years and they still don't get it (especially ubisoft), people who pirate games crack these things in a few weeks and then play them for free while people who pay for these products are forced to jump through hoops just to play a game that to be honest they don't even own since the DRM is telling you when you can and cannot play the game.

After a while I figure these people would just say "I'm done with this crap, why should I pay these companies to screw me over when I can just pirate the games and play them without getting hassled by the DRM.

Agreed, I've said it before and I'll say it again. There are only two kinds of pirates (damn, I really hate that stupid term). There's one group that just want a free game and will never, ever buy the game. Period. And there's growing group of people that are driven to piracy because of the DRM, because they want to see how buggy the game is before they buy it, or even to see if they can run it as system requirements are an art these days, not a science.

The big corporations really ought to accept the fact that they cannot fight against that first group. They see it as lost sales and theft, but piracy isn't theft, as you copy software not steal a disc in a store and as they will not buy the game ever, it isn't a lost sale.
What are lost sales is that second group that can easily be won back if they knew how to create customer loyalty. If you treat your customer well and you do quality work, he will leave satisfied and he will come back. But no, the vast majority of the games on the market are boring, bad and buggy and customers are treated like criminals. 
Mind you, some companies do have the right idea. BioWare does a pretty good job at creating that loyalty by producing quality and relatively bugfree games (I do say relatively, bugs do exist in BioWare games but far less then in some other titles) and by not being a faceless entity (if you pirate a BioWare game, you're not "sticking it up to the man" or anything, you're depriving Chris Priestley of his paycheck).

It's kind of sad to realise that these morons high up there in their ivory towers with all their expansive education in economics have no idea how to run a business. Nor do they have common sense, for that matter.

Modifié par Raygereio, 27 mars 2010 - 08:20 .

[Ecael]

This thread might get locked soon. I posted a thread like this and it got locked on both Mass Effect forums for being off-topic. I moved it over to the off-topic thread and got a response from Don Moar:

Don Moar wrote...

Hey,



My answer in those other threads may have been ambiguous but it was honest.



ME3 is still a long way off and no decisions regarding DRM have been made yet, nor would I expect them to get made for some time. That being said, the customer response to DRM used on past BioWare and other products will factor into that decision. If you have any doubts, just consider that the customer response to the DRM used on ME1 (PC) influenced the DRM decision on ME2 (PC).





Don M

Thread on Off-Topic: http://social.biowar...3/index/1809543

Locked Threads:
http://social.biowar...5/index/1800880
http://social.biowar...3/index/1800851

Modifié par Ecael, 27 mars 2010 - 08:38 .

[ThePasserby]

Ecael wrote...

This thread might get locked soon. I posted a thread like this and it got locked on both Mass Effect forums for being off-topic. I moved it over to the off-topic thread and got a response from Don Moar:

Don Moar wrote...

Hey,



My answer in those other threads may have been ambiguous but it was honest.



ME3 is still a long way off and no decisions regarding DRM have been made yet, nor would I expect them to get made for some time. That being said, the customer response to DRM used on past BioWare and other products will factor into that decision. If you have any doubts, just consider that the customer response to the DRM used on ME1 (PC) influenced the DRM decision on ME2 (PC).





Don M

Thread on Off-Topic: http://social.biowar...3/index/1809543

Locked Threads:
http://social.biowar...5/index/1800880
http://social.biowar...3/index/1800851

If customer response to previous games determined their decision, I think they should consider what posters in this thread have to say too. I'm not asking what EA/Bioware has to say on this. I'm asking what players' responses will be, so that EA/Bioware won't make any misstep in this regard.

[Nizzemancer]

ThePasserby wrote...

We might not even get to pirate ME3. I could be wrong but Assassin's Creed 2 hasn't been cracked yet, has it? So it might just come down to buying it with the DRM or simply not playing it at all.

There's plenty of cracks, and from what I've heard there's even a program to convert DRM-files to "clean" files.

C&C4 is crap anyway, Played the demo, was unimpressed, uninstalled.

Copy protection doesn't prevent piracy it only makes dedicated crackers more interested in the product and it only ends up irritating the people who don't use cracks.

I'll buy ME3 regardless because it won't make any real difference on my xbox anyway and it's always hooked up to my (stable) connection in any case.

EA is all about the money, they don't care about what they do as long as they get cash in the bank, and that's why they'll lose.

[Fraevar]

I will not buy any game with DRM that requires an online connection save digital purchases that require that you be connected when the transaction happens, like when buying something over Steam. I passed on Mass Effect for a long time until it was on sale for €7.49 on Steam, stripped of the invasive SecuROM implementation of the retail version.

I personally do not care how EA or Ubisoft spin it. Mandating persistent or even intermittant online connections is invasive DRM, pure and simple. And does it help? All the pirates happily playing Assassin's Creed 2 while legitimate purchasers cannot would suggest that it doesn't.

That being said, BioWare are encouraging piracy of their DLC with all these North American exclusive promos, so if you want your DLC revenuestream to be un interrupted, I'd recommend stoping that partigular form of regionalization immediately. I don't condone piracy, but I've used a computer long enough to know where people go and half the ME2 related torrents out there are for the Dr Pepper DLC...gee I wonder why that is, and who might want to resort to obtaining that content illegally...

Modifié par Delerius_Jedi, 27 mars 2010 - 08:56 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Always connected DRM is a no-buy for me, and I even have Business class internet where some additional effort is made for reliability.

[phordicus]

i'm not firing up the wireless just to play single-player.

[Ecael]

ThePasserby wrote...

Ecael wrote...

This thread might get locked soon. I posted a thread like this and it got locked on both Mass Effect forums for being off-topic. I moved it over to the off-topic thread and got a response from Don Moar:

Don Moar wrote...

Hey,



My answer in those other threads may have been ambiguous but it was honest.



ME3 is still a long way off and no decisions regarding DRM have been made yet, nor would I expect them to get made for some time. That being said, the customer response to DRM used on past BioWare and other products will factor into that decision. If you have any doubts, just consider that the customer response to the DRM used on ME1 (PC) influenced the DRM decision on ME2 (PC).





Don M

Thread on Off-Topic: http://social.biowar...3/index/1809543

Locked Threads:
http://social.biowar...5/index/1800880
http://social.biowar...3/index/1800851

If customer response to previous games determined their decision, I think they should consider what posters in this thread have to say too. I'm not asking what EA/Bioware has to say on this. I'm asking what players' responses will be, so that EA/Bioware won't make any misstep in this regard.

Well, the posters here are paying customers too (most of them...). <_<

The last two games BioWare has released - Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2 - only have simple disk checks in them, but introduced a pipeline for downloadable content. I'm hopeful that it will be the very most that EA will force BioWare to do.