284 réponses à ce sujet

[Weskerr]

What is DRM and what does it stand for?

[Onyx Jaguar]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

DRM==Digital Rights Management==Copy protection.

[Symbolz]

Weskerr wrote...

What is DRM and what does it stand for?

Page 1 of this thread, towards the bottom.  There lies your answer.

[Digitaldragon87]

vhatever wrote...

I won't buy any single player game that forces me to be online when I play, doesn't matter what the game is or who makes it.

This pretty accurately sums up my opinion on it. I had INTENDED to by Assassin's Creed 2 for PC. Waited months for it. I still haven't bought it, and won't. The same goes for ANY other game that uses this format for authentication.

My biggest issue with this form of DRM is that these servers won't be maintained forever. Sooner or later, they'll shut them down, because it will get too expensive to keep them running (Or they'll run out of space on them). So 5 years from now, when you're going through your older games or cleaning that hidden drawer of your computer desk... You'll find the CD.

You reinstall the game, go to boot it up, and it says "Server not found" and shuts down instantly. You no longer even own 1 copy of the game, because the draconian DRM has taken away your ability to play that copy.

No thanks. If I'm paying for a copy of the game... I want that copy. Whether I intend to play it now, next week, with the internet hooked up or not, or even a decade from now, when I want to go back and laugh at what today's graphics looked like.

I'm not interested in paying money for, or playing, a game where the EULA says that I own 1 copy, but the DRM says I'm only renting.

[GenkiZer0]

If we don't like this why not start a petition on this board? I think EA is pushing ppl too far w/ it's DRM. One of the draw backs of EA's Drm is, if you had DL'd something and you lose connection you lose that content aswell until your connection is re-established. and if you play whaever progress/achievements you got while you were disconnected is also lost once you regain a connection. they have this implemented on Burnout Paradise and Need for Speed Undercover. I've stopped playing both of thse game series.



I'm tired of EA bullying other game companies they've bought. if they let them operate their way more money would be earned than Forcing non-sensical EA policies.



E.g. V.W. owns Lamborghini, but You'll never see a Diesel Lambo.. or a V.W. dealer selling Lambos... Lambo operates as a independant company w/ acces to V.W. money.



E.A. should take a hint .

[Gypsydonny]

Wait you mean if my internet connection is down and I wanna play ME3 or any other EA game single player mode? I can't HELLS NO!! I will NOT buy anymore of EA products or videos no matter how much I love Bioware I will refuse to buy them if they force this upon us.

[AmstradHero]

DRM that introduces a requirement for you to be permanently online is something I cannot support. I agree that it appears that many executives from companies still appear to be in the mindset of "let's put better DRM on our products to stop piracy". It has been proven time and time again that the pirates and cracking groups will find a way around DRM.  However, I do support game companies (or the publishers) putting some kind of mechanism to attempt to minimise the amount of piracy that occurs.

MMOs have made massive amounts of money, and require you to be online to play. I haven't heard about piracy of WoW, so now publishers are making the jump - "WoW requires you to be permanently connected to the Internet to play, so why can't our game?" The problem lies in the fact that they have chosen to purchase an online game that relies on online multiplayer as the core component of the game. This is not the case for a single player game. As someone who doesn't play online a whole lot, why should I be forced to connect to the Internet to play something that does not rely on the Internet for its core gameplay? What if I'm on a laptop and don't have Internet connectivity?  What happens if my ISP has an outage? What happens if my connection is unreliable for a period or the network becomes congested?  Not everyone has fantastic Internet.

I believe a big part of the problem is that a company cannot tell why their game was pirated.  They just know it was pirated, and hence make the only logical assumption that "our DRM wasn't good enough." People saying "oh, I'm just going to pirate it instead" are typically just making the problem worse.  The problem is that gamers are a needy bunch who "want want want". As a case in point, let's look back to Modern Warfare 2. Lots of PC gamers formed a group to boycott the game because there were no dedicated servers. A huge number of gamers said "there's no way I'm going to buy this", "Activision aren't getting a cent until there's dedicated servers" or something similar.  Yet on release day... bang, a massive number coughed up the money for it.  I refused.  (I subsequently played and finished the single player campaign at a friend's place in about 4 hours, and played online at a LAN cafe for a few hours and failed to see how it was anything other than a cheap cash-in on its predeccessor, but that's another story)  Anyway, my point was, gamers want to play games, and will put aside many misgivings to play one - the two choices for many appear to be "putting up with DRM" or "pirating the game."  Few gamers have the restraint to pick "not play the game."

Pirating exists because people like getting something for free. No matter how many arguments people raise for "I'm just doing it to avoid DRM", it's still copyright infringement and getting a product without paying those who put in the effort to create it, unless a person buys a copy of the game and then plays a pirated version.

I love to support gaming companies that produce great games. But I take issue with DRM that makes me as a legitimate consumer feel like a criminal by treating me with a mentality of "whenever you're playing our game, you need to prove to us you're not a software pirate."  I wish publishers would not penalise those players who have given them their money. We are the customers. We are contributing to their livelihood.  We are supporting the products we love, yet are made to feel like we are "the bad guys".  Why must we be forced to pick between the three options "endure increasingly draconian DRM", "pirate the game" or "not play the game"?

I love PC gaming, but it currently appears to be dying a slow and painful death thanks to piracy and the DRM trying to combat that piracy.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 27 mars 2010 - 10:24 .

[Snelle Jaap]

If there is a Online DRM then there is No Buy

or a really silly one like the old one from ME 1 (10 day check if you are a pirate)

[Newcomer11294]

There is no way in hell I will buy a single player game that forces me to log online. I don't care who the maker is, and i don't care what the game is, I won't put up with this kind of trash DRM system.

[Magister Lajciak]

There is no way I would buy a game that relies on external servers to work. This is one of the reasons why I don't buy MMOs and I certainly won't buy SOGs (Single-Player Online Games) either. In fact, I won't even purchase games that require online activation. This is the main reason why:

Digitaldragon87 wrote...

My biggest issue with this form of DRM is that these servers won't be maintained forever. Sooner or later, they'll shut them down, because it will get too expensive to keep them running (Or they'll run out of space on them). So 5 years from now, when you're going through your older games or cleaning that hidden drawer of your computer desk... You'll find the CD.



You reinstall the game, go to boot it up, and it says "Server not found" and shuts down instantly. You no longer even own 1 copy of the game, because the draconian DRM has taken away your ability to play that copy.



No thanks. If I'm paying for a copy of the game... I want that copy. Whether I intend to play it now, next week, with the internet hooked up or not, or even a decade from now, when I want to go back and laugh at what today's graphics looked like.



I'm not interested in paying money for, or playing, a game where the EULA says that I own 1 copy, but the DRM says I'm only renting.

It sums up my position nicely.



In fact, I will avoid an entire franchise that introduces these kinds of online DDRM requirements, since I will stop tracking it altogether (it would be waste of my time to continue tracking it, since the online DDRM requirements make it an automatic no-buy). Red Alert franchise has reached this stage for me with Red Alert 3's online DDRM - I used to be a fan, but now I have abandoned the franchise and no longer follow it at all, so even if they get rid of the DDRM I won't buy it nor any subsequent versions of Red Alert. Mass Effect would have been a franchise I would have been interested in, but the DDRM for the first game made me skip out on it. Although news has reached me indirectly that the DRM on the second Mass Effect game is friendly, I didn't purchase it, since I wouldn't have the story background from the first game. Having skipped the franchise, I won't purchase the third game no matter the DRM it has, but I do wish, for the sake of the fans of the franchise, that it has DRM like the second ME game rather than the first one (or worse).



The most recent of my formerly favorite franchises I am no longer a fan of is the Command & Conquer franchise, with its ridiculous always online DDRM (Draconian DRM). DDRM, however, is only part of the equation for this one. With Command & Conquer 4, EA has actually managed to beat the pirates. Sure, the game has been cracked almost immediately upon release, but apparently the game is so bad that pirates are not bothering to pirate it en masse. Hopefully, it won't give EA ideas that this is the way to go...



With Ubisoft, well, I am not really interested in any of the games they have released with their DDRM anyway, so technically-speaking I am not boycotting them yet. Should they, however, make a game that has this kind of DDRM that I would be interested in (and they have such franchises, chiefly the Might & Magic franchise), I will surely not buy it. In fact, since they have a company-wide policy to include this DDRM on all their new games, I am just considering blacklisting any and all games from their company. I will give them some more time to backtrack and abandon this insane DDRM before I make a decision whether to blacklist them or not, but if they don't give up on it, that might be the best approach to deal with it. I just don't have the inclination to waste my time tracking their games and waiting for the DDRM to be removed and/or researching their games for the latest DDRM decision.

[It Is Massively Effective]

klossen4 wrote...

OneBadAssMother wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

We might not even get to pirate ME3. I could be wrong but Assassin's Creed 2 hasn't been cracked yet, has it? So it might just come down to buying it with the DRM or simply not playing it at all.

Those two games has already been cracked and torrented all over the internet LOL!

Actually assasins creed 2 stops working a bit in the game.

Yes, Assassin's creed has not been officially cracked, there are cracks but they don't work properly, you can play the game, just not for long. You can't play missions, talking to an npc will give you the white screen, you will be also unable to get past the Animus at the beginning, you can only just run around, get on a horse, fight with soldiers, or switch towns. You can also do secondary missions, such as delivering stuff. Most people are whining and impatiently waiting for a proper crack from razor or the like if you just look around.
I'm tired of people saying that AC2 has been cracked.

[Michel1986]

Gypsydonny wrote...

Wait you mean if my internet connection is down and I wanna play ME3 or any other EA game single player mode? I can't HELLS NO!! I will NOT buy anymore of EA products or videos no matter how much I love Bioware I will refuse to buy them if they force this upon us.

That happend with C&C4 already, if you don't have a internet connection you can't even play your single player maps . (Unless you know some sources to get the offline patch/hack)

[Firndeloth]

This is ridiculous. Sometimes I want to play a game in areas without internet connections. That's what gaming laptops are for: bringing games wherever you go. I fail to see why this is necessary.

[DOYOURLABS]

Honestly, I think DRM encourages piracy. Of all the people who buy games, I bet there is a lot of people that are scared of piracy because of viruses or think it's too complicated. Corporate suits seem to not know their audience. Piracy is going to happen eventually no matter how complicated the DRM is and having a reputation that your games are unplayable due to DRM is going to hurt sales more than piracy. I'm not involved in the business world so I have no idea if what I'm saying is accurate but it seems pretty logical and straight forward to me.

[Symbolz]

Makes me wonder how many of the top level executives in these publisher companies actually play the games with these ridicious DRM.  My bet is slim to none.

You know what I would do.  I would make these guys play a game that would require a live internet DRM, but make the connect faulty at best.  The constant disconnects from the internet DRM would causing them to constantly reloading and replay sections of the game.  This would let them know what frustration actually feels like.  Then, the kicker of it all, you put them on a timer to complete the game.  If they don't complete the time trial within the allotted time, they don't get their precious bonuses.  That's what I would do.  But it would never happen.........but I can dream, can't I?

Modifié par Symbol117, 27 mars 2010 - 11:11 .

[SpartanMKV]

Wow, I didn't even know the situation with DRM had gotten this ridiculous. I wasn't aware that any games single player games required constant connection to the internet at this point. I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. That's something I'll have to watch out for. I guess this might change my plans for building a new gaming PC one day.

And I, for one, would staunchly refuse to purchase any game from any franchise with this sort of DRM. Sadly, very sadly indeed, Bioware may be on their last legs as a good game developer, struggling under the boot of EA. It's happened to countless franchises before, and I see little evidence that the trend is changing.

Modifié par SpartanMKV, 27 mars 2010 - 11:53 .

[Raygereio]

It Is Massively Effective wrote...
I'm tired of people saying that AC2 has been cracked.

It has been cracked, they just aren't done cracking.
AC2 doesn't have a constant connection with Ubisoft's server, it makes a quick call to the server whenever you use a lever, kill someone, step onto a roof, etc, etc. At last count there are well over 1300 places where the game makes that call (if you want an estimate of the total of calls, just add a zero or two to that number), what's further making things difficult for the crackers is the fact that the code used to make the call at each of those places is radomized, making it difficult to discern the patterns used; yeah, this is a bit different then a single disc check when you start up the game.
However you can change/remove those calls, it's just a matter of finding all of them which does take a long time. Technically a fully working crack does not exist yet, but it's just a matter of time until they are done with one.

Modifié par Raygereio, 28 mars 2010 - 12:04 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Yeeeeeeeah, I don't know. Probably, since whenever I'm on my PC, I'm connected, and I buy most of my games on Steam, so it's not really a HUGE problem If they don't screw up their online support. We're talking about Mass Effect and it counts a lot to me too. But it REALLY doesn't sound good.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 28 mars 2010 - 12:07 .

[It Is Massively Effective]

Raygereio wrote...

It Is Massively Effective wrote...
I'm tired of people saying that AC2 has been cracked.

It has been cracked, they just aren't done cracking.
AC2 doesn't have a constant connection with Ubisoft's server, it makes a quick call to the server whenever you use a lever, kill someone, step onto a roof, etc, etc. At last count there are well over 1300 places where the game makes that call (if you want an estimate of the total of calls, just add a zero or two to that number), what's further making things difficult for the crackers is the fact that the code used to make the call at each of those places is radomized, making it difficult to discern the patterns used; yeah, this is a bit different then a single disc check when you start up the game.
However you can change/remove those calls, it's just a matter of finding all of them which does take a long time. Technically a fully working crack does not exist yet, but it's just a matter of time until they are done with one.

<_< I never said that it never would be, I just said that as of now it is not fully cracked, some games just take longer than others. Some games have taken up to two months before a functional crack surfaced.

Modifié par It Is Massively Effective, 28 mars 2010 - 12:41 .

[Weiser_Cain]

I'll wait to see if someone cracks the drm first.

[TJSolo]

mrfoo1 wrote...

DRM keeps honest people honest and will have no effect on pirated games. But then again pirating games isn't just a "suit" or "corporate" problem.

No. A honest person keeps theirself honest. Pirating is a "suit" and "corporate" problem. As of such they are the ones most pirating is aimed against and they are the ones spreading gas on the proverbial fire by making more invasive DRM.

If gamers have such a problem with companies ensuring the viability of their product in the market place then maybe we need to be more active in assisting them with countermanding piracy. Ultimatly our hobby is what will suffer, not the companies, not the pirates, but the honest gamers who are going to be playing MW2 10 hour single player games while having to jump through 1001 hoops. And no amount of we the poor little gamer vs. those evil big companies will ever change that fact.

The biggest detriment to the "hobby" is big business that oversteep their boundries so they can make their wallets fatter. I refuse to try and waste my time and money hunting down pirates and their offshore servers/websites. The entire idea is idiotic. Instead of consumer v big business(a very common and real consumer rights issue) you want consumers to chase down pirates...pirates. Pass. 

[monika26]

I sure hope they don't do this to ME3. I'm already boycotting Ubisoft over the DRM in AC2. With ME3 it would be a difficult decision, since I really want to know how the story ends. I just really hope they don't use this sort of DRM in ME3, it would ruin the game.

I thought the 5 install limit on the PC version of ME1 was bad enough, but this sort of always online DRM is just insane. All it does is punish people who do actually pay for the game and in no way does it put a stop to piracy. I have a huge stack of games I've bought, why should I and all other paying customers be punished because some people would rather pirate the game? I will say it again, this will not stop piracy! They will find a way to circumvent any DRM system, no matter how extreme.

Modifié par monika26, 28 mars 2010 - 12:28 .

[Torhagen]

ThePasserby wrote...

EA's editor has slammed the new DRM system used by EA on Command and Conquer 4.

You can read this short article here: www.videogamer.com/news/ea_slams_its_c_and_c4_drm.html

With this new DRM system, the player has to have his/her internet connection up always. Losing it even for a moment results in the game being forced back to the main menu and all progress, presumably from the last save, lost.

What if ME3 were to use this DRM as well? If EA forces it on C & C 4, chances are, it mightl foist it on ME3 as well. Would you still buy the game?

Thats comparing apple with oranges i hope EA learned that forcing an online DRM on a singleplayer game is not a good idea, C&C4 is an online game with a campaign kind of like a MMO therefore you have to be online to play it anyhow.

Should EA make the same mistake Ubisoft is doing right now with Assasins Creed II slamming a singleplayer game with senseless DRM i would not buy any EA Game

Modifié par Torhagen, 28 mars 2010 - 12:31 .