284 réponses à ce sujet

[Soldier989]

mrfoo1 wrote...

Torhagen wrote...

Rk589 wrote...

Quick question, this seems to be a more PC orientated problem, so to what extent will this affect a user on Xbox 360?

Pc players own Consoles too so if u ****** me off with DRM like that my decision will affect what game i buy no matter the platform

I like how you think PC gamers matter to companies anymore.

Valve, Blizzard, a ton of Indie companies, etc.
 

[Bigeyez]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

I'd have to decide when the time comes, if EA adds the "must be online to play" on a game that's only Single player then that's rather destructive for both Ea and Bioware. That said maybe ME3 will have you required to registrer the game to your Bioware account like you had to with Mass Effect 2.
I honestly think that would be the best case and the most likely outcome if Bioware press that matter forwards with EA.

Hopefully..

The problem with even that is what happens 5 years down the line when EA shuts off the authentication servers? What if you get an itch to go back and reinstall Mass Effect 3, but find out that with the servers shut down you can't even authenticate your game?

We're already starting to see the effects of online DRM with companies releasing patchs or people having to crack their games which they bought legit just to get them to work again.

Any Online DRM, whether it be a one time activation, or this new always online DRM just plain sucks for the legit consumer and really doesn't do a damn thing against pirates who will just crack the **** and play it anyways.

[Group Theory]

I think Mass Effect is great, but if Mass Effect 3 has AC2 or C&C4 style DRM there is no way in hell I would buy it. One of my biggest concerns is what happens when the servers get shut down in the future. Would the game be rendered completely unplayable?

[Bigeyez]

Duduris wrote...

Those comparisons are only for phisical copies of the games they don't include the sales from the Digital versions of the games, like the ones sold on Steam.I wonder why...

The Steam Community consists of about 10 million people (Edit: 25 million active accounts total; one of which is me! yay!) as reported by Valve themselves. (Source ---> http://store.steampo....com/news/3390/)

As of May 28 2009 Xbox 360 sales surpassed the 30-million mark worldwide, which has grown even further since then. (Source --> http://www.gamasutra...php?story=23796)
As of December  31 2009 Sony reports that the PS3 has sold 33.5 million units worldwide. (Source --> http://www.scei.co.j...ps3_sale_e.html)
As of December 31 2009 Nintendo reports the Wii has sold 67.45 million units worldwide. (Source --> http://www.joystiq.c...-to-67-million/)

I'm not even going to bother looking up sales for handhelds which for both PSP and DS are also in the millions, upon millions worldwide. The DS last time I checked was at some insane number like 125 million.

The PC market is smaller then the console/handheld market, peroid.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 28 mars 2010 - 02:49 .

[Icinix]

Group Theory wrote...

I think Mass Effect is great, but if Mass Effect 3 has AC2 or C&C4 style DRM there is no way in hell I would buy it. One of my biggest concerns is what happens when the servers get shut down in the future. Would the game be rendered completely unplayable?

This is my fear too. I like to hang onto every game I ever buy, and play them in the future for nostalgia.  If I'm unable to play because of permanent server connections and their ilk it will really irritate me.
I don't mind DRM, as long as it doesn't reduce performance of the game, requires checking through constant internet connection or installs programs I don't want on my PC. However, I do believe the backlash from C&C4 and UbiSofts recent endeavours has probably prevented those kind of DRM issues in future developments. Well, I hope.

[Big Yam]

I passed on ME1 because of what I read about it's DRM, and would pass up ME3 for the same reasons.

[Destructo-Bot]

Piracy is a not a technological problem, it is a sociological one. It won't be solved with tech.

[Ilkholdens]

I love ME, I love Dragon Age. But if they decide to insist on draconian DRM, that involves permanent online connections for single player games, I'll go without. Simple as that. I'm already not quite happy with online registration and tying a game or its assets to an online account, but I can live with it to some degree. But forced permanent online connections? Sorry, as much as I like Bioware's franchises, there's limits I won't cross. Period.

[Terror_K]

Either UbiSoft's DRM or Games for Windows LIVE would stop me getting ME3. As it stands it'll likely be a "delayed until cheaper" purchase unless BioWare prove to me that ME3 is going to be made a stronger RPG.

[craigdolphin]

Folks, I think you're jumping the gun here. Perhaps some of you are not aware of the ...furore... that erupted on the old Bioware forums over the DRM used on ME1.

I was a part of that reaction and Chris Priestly probably still gets a nervous twitch whenever he sees my username. Poor chap.

Suffice to say that there were literally dozens of threads, some with well over 100+ pages of posts, with a very thorough analysis of the issues from many of Bioware's customers, ranting at the devs/EA from many of the same, and even some folks joining in class-action lawsuits over the issue. Bioware eventually went into damage control mode (IMO)....shuffling off the discussion into the offtopic area where the discussion continued and attitudes became increasing poisonous. And the end result of all of that, as Dan Moar noted, was that the DRM used on DA:O and ME2 was absolutely brilliant compared to that on ME1. Bioware could say nothing during the forum debates, but they made the right call in the end.

I believe that there was a bit of a stand made by Bioware, on behalf of their fans and because they knew that type of DRM harms them commercially.  The eventual decision to release DA:O and ME2 with a reasonable copy protection system represented a significant departure from EA's previously stated DRM-policy, which was that ALL EA games would use the SecuROM system used on ME1, Spore, etc. The fact that DA:O and ME2 have all sold great volumes without the dubious benefits of insane DRM like that used by Ubisoft and the C&C division of EA really does poke a stick in the eye of the pro-DRM argument IMO. I suspect that even John Riccitiello will be forced to admit that Bioware made the right call.

I think Bioware's DLC approach to the issue of second hand sales generating no cash for developers is a vastly more intelligent strategy than the DRM approach. And I suspect that no one in Bioware EVER wants to go through the PR hell and unrelenting anger of many of their most hardcore fans again. I would be stunned if the DRM on ME3 or DA2 changed significantly from what we saw this time around. And naturally, my attitude to purchasing games with that kind of DRM has not changed.

All I'm saying is that this is not the first time gamers have explained their discontent about excessive DRM systems to Bioware. Loudly. Persistently. Angrily. Their actions with DAO and ME2 prove that they get it. Until any evidence is found to suggest otherwise, I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

[TJSolo]

mrfoo1 wrote...
Honest people will not steal, and they will not see the need to. But DRM doesn't and won't effect the piracy. Which is why I said DRM keeps honest people honest.

Honest people do not steal under normal conditions. There has to be criteria in place in order to turn an honest person dishonest, one of the pieces is to treat an honest person like he/she is dishonest.  Security measures do not keep honest people honest, security measures are their to deter or slow down theives/pirates/evil-doers. If an honest person sees a game on a store shelf they want to play and if that game does not have DRM that honest person will not decide to pirate instead of paying a clerk for it.

Because dishonest people will be dishonest at the end of the day. Everyone will take the stance of I am the honest consumer, until they feel that as an honest consumer they aren't getting there value or the dollar/hour argument.

The dollar/hour issue is the fault of the business for not providing a consistent product that meets consumer needs or by equally treating all consumers as criminals.

That's fine support consumer rights. But don't support one side while claiming the other is fallic or unreliable because the "suits" are only out for your dollars. Gamers have one of the cheapest hobbies. We are by far getting the better end of the deal.

I have a handful of hobbies; movies,anime, reading, games, working out,cars,..gaming is not the cheapest adding in the cost of keeping current with consoles it runs near the most expensive(for me).

As for the last part i dunno what to say to that. How you could enjoy seeing minimal progress in game development and constant rehashings of products and companies only making those standard safe plays is beyond me. 

The only gaming company that seems to be making progress and pushing the edge would be Nintendo right now. PS3, 360 and the PC have the same amount of rehashing, retelling of the same story as any other era. I mean unless you are purely speaking technology-wise; which is moot since I am basing my preference off of ideology. Of course the ideology would have led to advances in tech, no further speculation is needed.

[Emperor Mars]

I would still ME3 and any other ME/Bioware product if it had DRM. Because despite EA's asinine policy of annoying its customers, I still enjoy mass effect, my comp always has an internet connection, and I like Bioware.

Granted I hate the concept of DRM, but I will not punish a innocent high quality game because one of its parents is an idiot.

[Unit-Alpha]

Yet another reason I have started to advocate 360 usage for multi platform. I'm sick of all this PC DRM on AC2 and presumably ME3 now because my house has a terrible disease called "occasionally nonexistent Internet connection."

[tmelange]

ThePasserby wrote...

EA's editor has slammed the new DRM system used by EA on Command and Conquer 4.

You can read this short article here: www.videogamer.com/news/ea_slams_its_c_and_c4_drm.html

With this new DRM system, the player has to have his/her internet connection up always. Losing it even for a moment results in the game being forced back to the main menu and all progress, presumably from the last save, lost.

What if ME3 were to use this DRM as well? If EA forces it on C & C 4, chances are, it mightl foist it on ME3 as well. Would you still buy the game?

No, I wouldn't buy it. There is a lot I will do (and a lot of money I will spend) to support my favorite developers, but I drawn a line in the sand at any game requiring me to have a constantly accessible service that costs upwards of $40 to play a game that i purchased. It's the reason I won't buy AC2, and if ME 3 were to go in that direction, it would be added to the no-buy list. My sympathy for game developers' fight against piracy ends at major inconveniences and economic discrimination. 

[Dragonelf68]

Odds are DRM won't show up on ME3. Why? DRM has already come back to bite Ubisoft in the ass. Their site got hacked and a crack was put up. It's probably going to be the same for EA. The sad thing is is that it will affect Bioware which, in my opinion is one of the only 3 gaming companies that still care about gamers. The other 2 being Bethesda and Valve. ME3 will most likely be the last EA game I ever buy until they clean up their act. Besides the DRM, they're also making you pay for demo's.

There's also a very relevant quote I have from a friend of mine.

"EA games, Purchase eveeeeeeeerything."

[Unit-Alpha]

Dragonelf68 wrote...

Odds are DRM won't show up on ME3. Why? DRM has already come back to bite Ubisoft in the ass. Their site got hacked and a crack was put up. It's probably going to be the same for EA. The sad thing is is that it will affect Bioware which, in my opinion is one of the only 3 gaming companies that still care about gamers. The other 2 being Bethesda and Valve. ME3 will most likely be the last EA game I ever buy until they clean up their act. Besides the DRM, they're also making you pay for demo's.
There's also a very relevant quote I have from a friend of mine.
"EA games, Purchase eveeeeeeeerything."

Yeah, it really is problematic that Bioware is an EA subsidiary now. Strange, I also think that Bioware, Bethesda, and Value are the only companies with a true ear-to-the-ground in terms of consumer. Oh well, I guess Bioware's philosophy is going to have to compete with the monolith that is EA.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 28 mars 2010 - 04:53 .

[Sceptrum]

I love Mass Effect series and have used insane amount of time on the two games.

Still I wouldn't buy ME3 at all if it had DRM like AC2 & C&C4.

[jakenou]

DRM is such a no win situation. It just gives some people all the more reason to work around it, and others to just not even purchase the product because of it. It's like they're trying to stifle PC gaming and funnel people into console land. It's a bummer b/c I'm just startig to get back into playing on PC after doing consoles almost exclusively for so long.

[Kalfear]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

If the connection is as bad as ubisoft's drm, I won't buy it.

ME3 is already on my MAYBE list.
Bioware has to do major fixes to the ME3 game (over ME2 content) and announce and show it (so I beleive them as they lied to us this time around) before ill look at ME3.

Im not against anti piracy measures but it better work 100% or like the poster I quoted, it will stop me from playing.

If they get it working by ME3, then it will just be game content and direction that makes the decision on purchase.

[TJSolo]

mrfoo1 wrote...

DRM keeps honest people honest = Burdening the honest consumer with useless security measures that will not affect what pirates choose to do. As in "Red light cams only stop those who don't run red lights from running red lights." Do you understand the phraseology now.

Honestly, I hope it is meant sarcastically and that me picking out your statement was just a case of missing sarcasm via text media. Otherwise no I don't get it.

God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty, and how many other series rarely follow in a constant or consistent level of quality? Hell, WoW one of the highest grossing paid subscription based games (@12 Million with the Asian Market, and 5-6M for NA and EU) has been in a downward level of quality sprial for how many years now? The means of claiming poor quality doesn't justify the dollar/hour argument in the terms you are using. The dollar/hour argument comes from the amount of time it takes to complete the content in a game in reference to it's consumer cost for the dollar/hour argument with single player games

You brought up(or maybe it was in response to someone else) the value and dollar/hour excuses, i was only responding from that. Dollar/hour does not fall with in the scope of this EA , DRM and pirating topic. So let's save the dollar/hour and value issues for another day and topic more focused on customer satisfaction, developer limitations, or something like that.

Movies and going to the theater is not a cheaper dollar/hour value then games, buying them brings it closer but thats if you spend over 30 hours watching the same movie repeatedly. Anime sure because there are tons of streaming sites, unless you buy it your dropping 15-20$ per set and buying more then 1 set a month your still not getting the same value. The same goes for cars(unless you mean magazines which relates to your book point) and working out (unless you bought a set of free wieghts, and that gym membership isn't cheap unless you go more then once a week)

I didn't say all of my hobbies were cheaper than gaming just that gaming is not the cheapest hobby out there. Without going much deeper into my hobbies I am just going to say gaming ranks in the top 3 most expensive.

[TheMadCat]

Folks, I think you're jumping the gun here. Perhaps some of you are not
aware of the ...furore... that erupted on the old Bioware forums over
the DRM used on ME1.

If user complaints on a internet board had any bearing on the matter developers wouldn't keep requesting DRM be put on their titles and publishers/TPC's wouldn't keep financing development for newer and more "effective" methods. The fact is despite user riots on the subject being around for oh, a decade or so now, companies continuing pushing the envelope and trying to find that thin line between success and abuse. The reality of it all is Ubisoft's DRM has been fairly successful, as far as I'm aware AC2 and Settlers 7 have not been cracked and SH5 doesn't work properly. If it continues to show to be effective in combating piracy then that's what they'll use. All the forum users typing rants in caps all at once isn't going to do jack to sway any opinions on the matter. The reason EA folded on their last DRM scheme is because it proved incredibly ineffective and not because of all the boycotts, petitions, and other similar nonsense so there was no point in taking the PR hit for something that was useless. The fact of the matter is people will buy it whether it's loaded with some nasty DRM or not, plenty of people in fact. Just like the dozens of other protests and boycotts, 90% of the people on the picket lines will be the first ones to buy it.

And let's try to keep in mind Bioware is no longer it's own entity. They are a developer under the EA name, they follow EA's policies and oblige to EA"s requsts. While Ray and Greg I believe hold positions on the board that's not much of a say at the end of the day and at the end of the day Bioware ultimately does what EA tells them to do. If EA want's the Ubisoft DRM on every Bioware product guess what, it's going to happen.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 28 mars 2010 - 05:47 .

[FelixZay]

I understand the logic behind DRM. If sales are fine, then the customer base has no problem with DRM. If sales drop, then it's them damn pirates. DRM does nothing more than inconvenience paying customers.



That being said, if that day comes that I have to be always on for ME3 or any other Bioware game, you better believe I'm gonna pirate the hell out of it. Of course, it's my way of making a statement. If it's only me, then it's just another damn pirate. If others share this view, then maybe we'll get the message across

[McBodman]

Assassins creed 2 was bad enough, But if EA slaps it on ME2/DA2 that equals a boycott.