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[Ash Wind]

blademaster7 wrote...

I got that too. The guy embarrassed himself in the landsmeet and then abandoned his post as a Grey Warden right before the final battle. Now, he doesn't hate my gut anymore and he misses the "whole darkspawn killing thing".

The only difference in my game is that I fed Loghain to the archdemon. But still, there is an issue here...

It is either a bug or a continuity error.

Oh wait... Awakening is well known for having both... so take it with a pinch of salt.

That always bugged the hell out of me. The whole game Alistair is Duncan "The Great Man" this, and Duncan "The Great Man" that. Then because of one decision, he up and quits the battle against the darkspawn. Duncan, if he were alive, would have kicked Alistair's ass down one street and up the next.
I think in the same position, Duncan would have conscripted Logain... anything to defeat a blight.
Seemed an odd choice for the writers to include. If you spare him, Ali bascially betrays the Grey Wardens, betrays the memory of Duncan and betrays the PC if he doesn't get his way.

[errant_knight]

Selej wrote...

My alistair was bitter as all hell. I spared loghain and alistair married anora and he came in at the beginnings at awakening still bitter as hell. Pretty much go, well you're on your own good luck or whatever

Really? That's interesting. Maybe there was more effort taken with importing than I thought. Of course, that means there's another big bug then too.

[Addai]

Ash Wind wrote...

Seemed an odd choice for the writers to include. If you spare him, Ali bascially betrays the Grey Wardens, betrays the memory of Duncan and betrays the PC if he doesn't get his way.

Why is it an odd choice?  Alistair isn't Duncan.  Not by a long shot.  From his perspective, it's you who betrayed the Wardens and him by sparing Loghain.  You've never done something rash or could conceive of doing something you'd regret the rest of your life?

[blademaster7]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

I got that too. The guy embarrassed himself in the landsmeet and then abandoned his post as a Grey Warden right before the final battle. Now, he doesn't hate my gut anymore and he misses the "whole darkspawn killing thing".

The only difference in my game is that I fed Loghain to the archdemon. But still, there is an issue here...

It is either a bug or a continuity error.

Oh wait... Awakening is well known for having both... so take it with a pinch of salt.

Which continueity errors aren't a result of a bug? I didn't find a single continueity errors which couldn't be blamed on a bug.

Ok, let me re-prhase it. I will call it lack of continuity.

The guy refused to be a Grey Warden anymore because he didn't want Loghain as his "brother". He left my party when I needed him the most --when Ferelden needed him the most.

And when you meet him in Awakening.... he has the nerve to tell you that he misses the whole darkspawn killing thing... ehh

There is no excuse for that. Yes, I'm aware that Bioware had limited resources but if they couldn't make Alistair recognize what you did they could at least have Anora greet you instead of Alistair. I would much rather see Anora's cameo in this case. Anora at least stays on character.

[Sarah1281]

My alistair was bitter as all hell. I spared loghain and alistair married anora and he came in at the beginnings at awakening still bitter as hell. Pretty much go, well you're on your own good luck or whatever

I imported a married-to-Anora-but-still-in-party-for-Archdemon Alistair and the dialogue option I chose (don't sound so disappointed) made him sound pretty bitter too. He just said 'I'm sure I'll get over it' like he didn't really care one way or another and even his 'at least the Hero of Ferelden is still alive' souded kind of...well, there's a reason I picked what dialougue option I did. I guess things aren't going so well with his new wife?

[angj57]

SurelyForth wrote...

I'm bothered by the fact that Alistair seems to treat someone who he hated at the end of Origins the same as he treats someone who ended the game at 100 Friendly. It strips away some of the impact of the Redeemer ending for me (betraying, in a sense, the man my PC loved and marrying him to another woman) and makes the camaraderie he has with other characters seem empty.

Hmm, I agree that his speech to me was rather cold after we had been comrades and 100% friendly, but I just interpreted it as him having become a little jaded and cold after a bit of time on the throne. I'm sure it happens to every king.

[Ash Wind]

Addai67 wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Seemed an odd choice for the writers to include. If you spare him, Ali bascially betrays the Grey Wardens, betrays the memory of Duncan and betrays the PC if he doesn't get his way.

Why is it an odd choice?  Alistair isn't Duncan.  Not by a long shot.  From his perspective, it's you who betrayed the Wardens and him by sparing Loghain.  You've never done something rash or could conceive of doing something you'd regret the rest of your life?

It seemed an odd choice, IMO, for the writers to go in that direction because it is completely out of character for Alistair. He reveres Duncan and seems to finally have found himself in the Grey Wardens and defeating the blight. Then out of nowhere he quits if he doesn't get his pound of flesh. He certainly has the right to be upset, and doesn't have to have anything to do with Loghain, but to just up and quit seemed contrary to the character as it had been developed through the game. He always wanted to do the right thing. And with respect to the Blight, (which is their ultimate duty) they would have stood a better chance of defeating it with 4 Grey Wardens in the battle, as opposed to 3. 
 
From his perspective? The reasons the Grey Wardens exist are to fight the Darksapwn and end blights (as they are the only ones capable of doing so). Period. My PC wanted to recruit Loghain to defeat the blight, He didn't throw a fit and quit, possibly dooming Ferelden (certainly possible) because he didn't get his way. 

I certainly have done rash things I regret... but none of them could have doomed my fellow citizens and destroyed my country while I cried in my beer. Not one.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 28 mars 2010 - 08:29 .

[Sarah1281]

If Alistair becomes King I can see that decision to stay behind as more understandable. If he dies, Anora rules on her own and since the only way to make Alistair king if Loghian lives is to harden him and marry him to Anora, he's convinced she shouldn't rule by herself and the King not rushing headfirst into certain death if it can be avoided and the Queen isn't trustworthy is a sensible course of action. If he's not king and he just wanders off to be drunk...well, to be fair, Anora DOES exile him. He can't just ignore that.



And Alistair might love the GW, but he idealizes them as much as Wynne does. Recruiting Loghain knocks the wardens right off of their pedestal and Alistair can't take the disillusionment. He does regret leaving, though. Well, if Loghain dies he does. If he's still alive he's still hung-up on the fact his most hated person is about to become his father-in-law.

[blademaster7]

Yes, that seemed like a joke. He didn't seem to hold a grudge against me. Not to mention that he says he want's to help you fight darkspawn but he can't(king duties and all).

Oh really... just like he helped me fight the archdemon? :innocent:

All I know is that during the final battle Alistair was hiding under a rock while Riordan and Loghain gave their lives to stop the archdemon.

Where is the option to slap him upside the head? I realize that he got over the fact that I picked Loghain over him, but after Loghain's sacrifice it would be proper for him not to show his face again. Not to me of all people. If Bioware wasn't willing to add 2-3 additional lines to Alistair's dialogue then I would much rather see Anora's cameo.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

My alistair was bitter as all hell. I spared loghain and alistair married anora and he came in at the beginnings at awakening still bitter as hell. Pretty much go, well you're on your own good luck or whatever

I imported a married-to-Anora-but-still-in-party-for-Archdemon Alistair and the dialogue option I chose (don't sound so disappointed) made him sound pretty bitter too. He just said 'I'm sure I'll get over it' like he didn't really care one way or another and even his 'at least the Hero of Ferelden is still alive' souded kind of...well, there's a reason I picked what dialougue option I did. I guess things aren't going so well with his new wife?

It sounds to me like it was designed to allow for interpretations that might go with varying roleplay choices. To me, it sounds like sarcasm, to someone else, maybe not. I'll never see that in-game, though. Not in a million years.

[StingingVelvet]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

The Orlesian just seems like a stop-gap for the people in love with the Ultimate Sacrifice and don't want to handwave their character back into existence.

Agreed.

I don't know why people seem to think the sacrifice ending is the "good one" because in my game it made total sense for Alistair to sacrifice himself.  He loved my warden but could not have her anymore, he had to take the crown but did not want it, he wanted to save Ferelden, it just made total sense really.  I told him I loved him, kissed him, then watched him save the world.

And now I get to play Awakening without a massive continuity problem.

[errant_knight]

StingingVelvet wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

The Orlesian just seems like a stop-gap for the people in love with the Ultimate Sacrifice and don't want to handwave their character back into existence.

Agreed.

I don't know why people seem to think the sacrifice ending is the "good one" because in my game it made total sense for Alistair to sacrifice himself.  He loved my warden but could not have her anymore, he had to take the crown but did not want it, he wanted to save Ferelden, it just made total sense really.  I told him I loved him, kissed him, then watched him save the world.

And now I get to play Awakening without a massive continuity problem.

The ultimate sacrifice and the ending above are excellent examples proving that there is no one 'good' ending. Mine is different from either, although the ultimate sacrifice is closer.

Personally, I had no continuity problems at all. I think what this mainly says is that the developers didn't actually think that all that many people would marry Anora to Alistair and spare Loghain. Marry Alistair to Anora, yes (and ewww), spare Loghain, yes, but not both. Either that, or they didn't test it much to see where the oddities might lie.

[RogueWriter3201]

This is acutally a pretty interesting discussion, as many of the points made could be constrewed as either reflections of in-game events, or errors in the Story and the Character ramifications between DA:O and DA:A.
However, I did have one question to ask for the sake of curiosity. Does anyone know, by chance, what hardened Alistair's reaction is to sparing Loghain if you are a Male Warden who decideds to marry Anora and become the Prince-Consort? I've always been curious if there is a difference. Does Alistair except Loghain but leave the Warden anyway or does he just leave the party but remains a Grey Warden?

[SurelyForth]

glenboy24 wrote...

This is acutally a pretty interesting discussion, as many of the points made could be constrewed as either reflections of in-game events, or errors in the Story and the Character ramifications between DA:O and DA:A.
However, I did have one question to ask for the sake of curiosity. Does anyone know, by chance, what hardened Alistair's reaction is to sparing Loghain if you are a Male Warden who decideds to marry Anora and become the Prince-Consort? I've always been curious if there is a difference. Does Alistair except Loghain but leave the Warden anyway or does he just leave the party but remains a Grey Warden?

He's either executed or becomes a wandering drunkard. 

[Sarah1281]

Does Anora still try to exile Alistair if her father dies or just make him give up his claim to the throne?

[cachx]

My huma female mage, didn't romance him, spared Loghain (that died via Archdemon), and married him to Anora. My male Dalish elf let him duel and execute Loghain, put him on the throne, and even stayed in court to help him (survived via ritual).

Both of those got "bitter Alistair" on Awakening. "Try not to look so disappointed", "I'll get over it".

Well, I'm hanging him on my next char... in a lamppost, in the middle of winter... 

[Sarah1281]

Does he at least get to lick it first?