701 réponses à ce sujet

[InHarmsWay]

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well Kahouku was asking for it

[SimonTheFrog]

Yeah, the same with Dr. Chakwas, Ken and Gabby, Jacob (checkered past?! You need "white" spots too to make it checkered, sofar we only know about "black"), the chef etc. etc.



But: no new here... some people think Cerberus is a good twist, others think its crap.

[Zulu_DFA]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

This.

Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

[Weskerr]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

There are plenty of other times when Shepard should say something, but doesn't have the option to, like right after Shepard, Jacob, and Miranda escape the Project Lazarus Faciility in that small FTL vehicle. Jacob says something like "Soldiers under your command died on Akuze in a Thresher Maw attack. Must have been hard for you." The fact that Cerberus is responsible for that is not available as a response in Shepard's dialogue wheel.

[SimonTheFrog]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

This.

Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

Wat?

Admiral Kahoku was investigating his slaughtered squad and then investigated a terroristic "rogue black-ops" branch of the alliance. I mean, sure, its dangerous to deal with terrorists, but fighting them is the only right thing to do (at least in games) He's a tragic figure at most, but he's a goddam hero, a bloody icon.

And yeah, there are several thorian incidents, one is binary helix (iirc), the other is Cerberus. And anyway, what's your point? If some of the bad things in ME1 were NOT cerberus that doesn't mean cerberus is suddenly responsible for anything good in ME1, no does it?!

I'm not taking any position here, i just point at the arguments...

[kraidy1117]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

[Blansten]

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

1) Regardless of whether or not they were the only ones doing it, it is still jacked up 
2)One colony is enough to make you a terrorist organization imo, and again the fact that "other people" did
it too doesn't make it ok
3)They killed Khahokus men, the game makes it pretty clear
4)No he did not, Cerberus brought him into it when they killed his men
5)So what if they were not the only ones? They were doing it ALONG with several other insane experiments

I believe everyone should play the game as they see fit, but I seriously don't get the concept of trying to rationalize what 
Cerberus has done

[KainrycKarr]

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

[kraidy1117]

Blansten wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

1) Regardless of whether or not they were the only ones doing it, it is still jacked up 
2)One colony is enough to make you a terrorist organization imo, and again the fact that "other people" did
it too doesn't make it ok
3)They killed Khahokus men, the game makes it pretty clear
4)No he did not, Cerberus brought him into it when they killed his men
5)So what if they were not the only ones? They were doing it ALONG with several other insane experiments

I believe everyone should play the game as they see fit, but I seriously don't get the concept of trying to rationalize what 
Cerberus has done

Khahokus man did something. Banes is most likely TIM and if he was TIm and faked his death, would you realy want people finding out the truth? Khahoku could have went to the brass or someone higher, but he decided to do it on his own, he paid the price. When will people see that Cerberus is not realy evil? Some cells go rouge, it happens.

[kraidy1117]

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

[janeym27]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

Grey? Some people don't know what to do with grey.

[KainrycKarr]

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

Uhh...TIM makes his intentions pretty obvious "Cerberus IS HUMANITY RAWR OGHDIGH!".

And yeah. I'd say some of those experiments are borderline evil. And so are the other corporations doing them.

I wouldn't sign on with Binary Helix either. The point you're trying to make is totally irrelevant.


Nothing besides Samara is black and white, but Cerberus and TIM is blatantly black enough to be considered evil, or at the very least, not suitable for a partnership.

Just because other people do it, doesn't make it right, justified, or acceptable.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 27 mars 2010 - 09:21 .

[kraidy1117]

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

Uhh...TIM makes his intentions pretty obvious "Cerberus IS HUMANITY RAWR OGHDIGH!".

And yeah. I'd say some of those experiments are borderline evil. And so are the other corporations doing them.

I wouldn't sign on with Binary Helix either. The point you're trying to point is totally irrelevant.

The only things I can see evil is turing a Colony into husks, thats it. If Cerberus is evil then Binary Helix which is a legal company is then evil and should be closed down. Thats what your saying.

[KainrycKarr]

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

Uhh...TIM makes his intentions pretty obvious "Cerberus IS HUMANITY RAWR OGHDIGH!".

And yeah. I'd say some of those experiments are borderline evil. And so are the other corporations doing them.

I wouldn't sign on with Binary Helix either. The point you're trying to point is totally irrelevant.

The only things I can see evil is turing a Colony into husks, thats it. If Cerberus is evil then Binary Helix which is a legal company is then evil and should be closed down. Thats what your saying.

....Thresher Maw blood being injected into soldier's bloodstreams isn't evil?

...Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. It SHOULD be shut down, as should Cerberus. There are lines that should not be crossed.

Testing is fine...even extreme testing. But on voluntary subjects.

[GuardianAngel470]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Blansten wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

1) Regardless of whether or not they were the only ones doing it, it is still jacked up 
2)One colony is enough to make you a terrorist organization imo, and again the fact that "other people" did
it too doesn't make it ok
3)They killed Khahokus men, the game makes it pretty clear
4)No he did not, Cerberus brought him into it when they killed his men
5)So what if they were not the only ones? They were doing it ALONG with several other insane experiments

I believe everyone should play the game as they see fit, but I seriously don't get the concept of trying to rationalize what 
Cerberus has done

Khahokus man did something. Banes is most likely TIM and if he was TIm and faked his death, would you realy want people finding out the truth? Khahoku could have went to the brass or someone higher, but he decided to do it on his own, he paid the price. When will people see that Cerberus is not realy evil? Some cells go rouge, it happens.

No, it is made pretty clear that he did go to the brass and the brass did nothing.  He put his life on the line to avenge the deaths of the soldiers under his command. He is a hero, not at fault.  Rationalizing cerberus is like rationalizing Al Qaeda; it can be said that all al qaeda is doing is standing up for their beliefs, but that doesn't make them a noble organization and it doesn't justify their actions.

[KainrycKarr]

Yes, Kohaku did go to the brass. That is in fact what he's doing when you walk to him at that terminal in the Council Chambers.

[Lord Coake]

I sincerely hope that ME3 has a "Kill Cerberus With Fire" option.

[Zulu_DFA]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

This.

Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

Wat?

Admiral Kahoku was investigating his slaughtered squad and then investigated a terroristic "rogue black-ops" branch of the alliance. I mean, sure, its dangerous to deal with terrorists, but fighting them is the only right thing to do (at least in games) He's a tragic figure at most, but he's a goddam hero, a bloody icon.

And yeah, there are several thorian incidents, one is binary helix (iirc), the other is Cerberus. And anyway, what's your point? If some of the bad things in ME1 were NOT cerberus that doesn't mean cerberus is suddenly responsible for anything good in ME1, no does it?!

I'm not taking any position here, i just point at the arguments...

You are self-contradiction. Terrorist branch of the Alliance... Fighing them is the only... at least in games... Just listen to youself. Also, Binary Helix has nothing to do with the Thorian. ME Wiki is your site.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 mars 2010 - 09:30 .

[GuardianAngel470]

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

Uhh...TIM makes his intentions pretty obvious "Cerberus IS HUMANITY RAWR OGHDIGH!".

And yeah. I'd say some of those experiments are borderline evil. And so are the other corporations doing them.

I wouldn't sign on with Binary Helix either. The point you're trying to point is totally irrelevant.

The only things I can see evil is turing a Colony into husks, thats it. If Cerberus is evil then Binary Helix which is a legal company is then evil and should be closed down. Thats what your saying.

....Thresher Maw blood being injected into soldier's bloodstreams isn't evil?

...Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. It SHOULD be shut down, as should Cerberus. There are lines that should not be crossed.

Testing is fine...even extreme testing. But on voluntary subjects.

@ Kraidy, binary helix was conducting those experiments on a planet outside the law. Had they been doing it in council space they would be breaking the law, and thus would not be a legal company.

[GuardianAngel470]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Anyone completely lose it when they heard Kelly say "Cerberus' methods are extreme, but they have noble objectives"?

I felt like there should have been a dialogue option with something along the lines of:

-mentioning rachni experiments
-turning two colonies into Thorian creepers and husks
-two occasions of using thresher maws against a squad of marines (one of which Sole Survivor Shepard was involved with)
-killing Khahoku
-more rachni experiments

She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

1: Cerberus was not the only one doing that.
2: They only turned one colonie into husk, they had nothing to do with the Thorian creepers at all.
3: Yes they did with the soul survior, as for Khahokus men, how do you know they did not find anything up? Many fans suspect Banes is TIM and they found TIMs body....
4: Khahoku brought it on to himself, he decided to get mixed in with Cerberus affairs.
5: As I said in point 1, Cerberus was not the only company or person doing rachni experiments.

none of this makes Cerberus good or better than portrayed/thought of, in any way.

Points one and five are redundant, and also only serve to show Cerberus isn't the only bad people out there.

Thats my point, Cerberus is not the only one doing crap like that but people like to go on the Cerberus hate wagon. Are they good? Not at all, but are they evil? Again no, with Cerberus it is not black and white.

Uhh...TIM makes his intentions pretty obvious "Cerberus IS HUMANITY RAWR OGHDIGH!".

And yeah. I'd say some of those experiments are borderline evil. And so are the other corporations doing them.

I wouldn't sign on with Binary Helix either. The point you're trying to point is totally irrelevant.

The only things I can see evil is turing a Colony into husks, thats it. If Cerberus is evil then Binary Helix which is a legal company is then evil and should be closed down. Thats what your saying.

....Thresher Maw blood being injected into soldier's bloodstreams isn't evil?

...Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. It SHOULD be shut down, as should Cerberus. There are lines that should not be crossed.

Testing is fine...even extreme testing. But on voluntary subjects.

@ Kraidy, binary helix was conducting those experiments on a planet outside the law. Had they been doing it in council space they would be breaking the law, and thus would not be a legal company.

Oh, and the company you are looking for is Exo Geni, not binary helix.  Binary helix was responsible for the rachni, saren's rachni.  Exo Geni was on feros conducting experiments on the colonists, making thorian creepers.  And that is still against the law and it still makes them evil.

[GuardianAngel470]

Lord Coake wrote...

I sincerely hope that ME3 has a "Kill Cerberus With Fire" option.

I second this.

[Collider]

I'm guessing she means the helping humanity thing. But she really should have taken all of those horrible things to account.

[KainrycKarr]

The truth is often painful, people often don't like pain, thus people often avoid the truth in order to avoid the pain.