701 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Coake]

Shandepared wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

That's what I'm saying.  They could at least lie and manipulate us rather than pretending they're going to do one thing and then doing another thing.  Roosevelt was comparatively upfront in his intentions.

Cerberus is upfront in their intentions too.

Yeah.  Agree with them or be killed out of hand.

[Lord Coake]

Shandepared wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

They really aren't. They are somewhat open with Shepard, but to everyone else they're practically invisible.

Well yeah, if they walked around telling everybody who they are, what they believe in, and how they go about it they wouldn't get very far.

That should kinda tell you something...

Nobody is above the law.  Not even your precious Illusive Man.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 28 mars 2010 - 06:09 .

[Andorfiend]

Alocormin wrote...

Anyway, I agree with Kelly. It bugs me that some people don't want to see the good Cerberus does, just because they do some other things that are bad.

Saren was consider your nemesis in ME 1 and Shepard vows to hunt him down without fail because he attacked Eden Prime resulting in the death of a few hundred people and killed Nihlus. (Understanding the true threat he represtented came later.)

TIM aka Cerberus single handedly destroyed 3 human colonies, hundreds of Alliance personel including Admiral Kahoku, seeded unfriendly Rachni through a star cluster which might have directly or indirectly led to the total destruction of humanity, stole a unknown amount of resource from the Alliance, has diverted billions of credits into his organization which might otherwise have been spent of something more productive like boy bands, and continues to screw the pooch in ways large and small right through ME 2.

Up until the exact moment that Shepard, by his aid, destroyed the Collector base Cerberus has done more to set back humanity that every hostile alien species in the galaxy. So far as I can tell he is still a bigger direct threat to humanity than the Reapers.

If Cerberus managed to accidently do some good along the way, bully for them, they still need to be fed into a reactor core.

Modifié par Andorfiend, 28 mars 2010 - 06:11 .

[TuringPoint]

Shandepared wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

They really aren't. They are somewhat open with Shepard, but to everyone else they're practically invisible.

Well yeah, if they walked around telling everybody who they are, what they believe in, and how they go about it they wouldn't get very far.

Peoples' understanding of Cerberus doesn't actually line up with the reality.  That's why they have to hide.  What would the solution to that be? Honest question.

Really, though you like to confront the aspects of my arguments which are least important or substantial to my reasoning, what I care about most is that they aren't responsible in what they do.  What I care about is what they do, and that they write all their failed experiments off as casualties of war and nothing else.  

That they work for humanity is indisputable, that they have to be sneaky is too.  But they have to be sneaky because they really do go too far, too carelessly.  It's not because they're working for humanity.  You can do that without nuking china - so to speak.

Modifié par Alocormin, 28 mars 2010 - 06:16 .

[Lord Coake]

Shandepared wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

That should kinda tell you something...

Yeah, it tells me they are un popular. If the STG went around telling everybody what they do they'd be unpopular as well. Same with the Navy SEALS.

Also, Spectres are above the law.

Spectres answer to the Council.  They get too far out of line, and the hammer gets dropped.

Cerberus, on the other hand, answers to itself.  At the core of the issue, I loathe Cerberus for the same reason I find the very idea of Justicars abhorrent.

[TuringPoint]

Shandepared wrote...

Andorfiend wrote...

 ...seeded unfriendly Rachni through a star cluster which might have directly or indirectly led to the total destruction of humanity...

Please tell me you killed the rachni queen.

Please tell me Cerberus did anything but wash their dirty hands of the accident and not bother cleaning up the mess.

Even if they didn't have the resources to clean that up, that is a really awful thing for them to do and not be held accountable for.  Regardless of whether they should be held accountable to a public that wouldn't understand, what they do does not turn out for the better in a majority of the situations we are presented with that cerberus is involved.

Modifié par Alocormin, 28 mars 2010 - 06:20 .

[Lord Coake]

Shandepared wrote...

Andorfiend wrote...

 ...seeded unfriendly Rachni through a star cluster which might have directly or indirectly led to the total destruction of humanity...

Please tell me you killed the rachni queen.

Nope.  I also didn't kill Wrex, who is now undisputedly the most dangerous Krogan in existence.  I also kept Legion, rewrote the Heretic Geth, returned Veetor, and am steering the Quarians to rebuilding their civilization.

Oh, and the information of Cerberus' crimes you get on Lorek?  Yeah, I gave that to the Alliance.  I mouth off to TIM constantly, blew up the Collector Base, and if the option exists in ME3, will be rejoining the real force and authority fighting for mankind.

[TuringPoint]

I'm saying, if they explained anything about what they did, even if they maintained their anonymity as best they could, they could be held accountable and held to some sort of standard, while being able to act with minimal obstruction to what they consider necessary.

[Lord Coake]

Shandepared wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

Nope.  I also didn't kill Wrex, who is now undisputedly the most dangerous Krogan in existence.  I also kept Legion, rewrote the Heretic Geth, returned Veetor, and am steering the Quarians to rebuilding their civilization.

Oh, and the information of Cerberus' crimes you get on Lorek?  Yeah, I gave that to the Alliance.  I mouth off to TIM constantly, blew up the Collector Base, and if the option exists in ME3, will be rejoining the real force and authority fighting for mankind.

Who needs the Reapers when we've got you?

After building an alliance of races to fight them, we can all gather around and watch Cerberus burn.

[Lord Coake]

Shandepared wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

After building an alliance of races to fight them, we can all gather around and watch Cerberus burn.

...and sit around and sing campfire songs, roast marshmellows, and vote democrat?

This is not a forum for  Anchored in Reality vs Republican discussion. 

And so long as a camping trip means Shep can share a sleeping bag with Tali, it's all good.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 28 mars 2010 - 06:31 .

[Goodwood]

Shandepared wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

After building an alliance of races to fight them, we can all gather around and watch Cerberus burn.

...and sit around and sing campfire songs, roast marshmellows, and vote democrat?

Why not? At least the Democrats attempt to get things done, even if they don't always succeed. Instead of giving lip service to their promises and pushing nothing but hateful rhetoric, like most Republicans do.

[Goodwood]

Proud to be one.



In addition, everything Lord Coake says he did in his playthroughs, I did as well.

[huntrrz]

kraidy1117 wrote...

No, it's you refuse to beleive that cells go rouge and state that TIm allowed kids getting abused and such. That is contradicted by logs and that email. If you don't want to beleive that, its your own fault.

Cells do go rogue.  We don't know that they actually did go rogue or if that is just TIM's excuse to placate the more 'squeamish' members of his staff.

But that's beside the point - whether or not this or any other cell 'went rogue' their actions are still his responsibility.  He provided the funding.  He set the ethics for the organization and assigned the goals for each cell.  He set the level of oversight each cell operated under.

If he wasn't watching closely enough to stop atrocities from happening, that's his fault.  He either trusted the wrong people to run the cells, or he just didn't care what they did.

And he wonders why people don't trust him...

[TuringPoint]

*really* not surprised by Shand's political leanings. Didn't want to say it in the context of an argument... guess I didn't have to.

[TuringPoint]

Lord Coake wrote...

This is not a forum for  Anchored in Reality vs Republican discussion. 

And so long as a camping trip means Shep can share a sleeping bag with Tali, it's all good.

Although I'm not sure if the democratic party is Anchored in Reality, I will concede that I like the perspective of that comment...

On the other hand, change "Tali" to "Kelly" and we're good  Assuming that means I also get more dialogue with Kelly....

Modifié par Alocormin, 28 mars 2010 - 06:39 .

[huntrrz]

 P.S.  Case in point - he sends a science team to investigate a supposedly dead Reaper.

A REAPER.

All contact with the team is lost.  It was "not worth the risk" (or was it resources?) to find out what happened to them, until it was learned there might be something particular of value on the derelict.

Given the level of threat the Reapers represent, it should have been the highest priority to find out what happened.  You send a team of ships and stagger them at different ranges so they can relay information, and if one or more go dark you know just how far the threat extends.

Instead of ignoring it.

We don't even need to argue about TIM's motives - his judgement stinks to high heaven!