701 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Coake]

Alocormin wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

This is not a forum for  Anchored in Reality vs Republican discussion. 

And so long as a camping trip means Shep can share a sleeping bag with Tali, it's all good.

Although I'm not sure if the democratic party is Anchored in Reality, I will concede that I like the perspective of that comment...

On the other hand, change "Tali" to "Kelly" and we're good  Assuming that means I also get more dialogue with Kelly....

Get a three-person bag. 

Modifié par Lord Coake, 28 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[TuringPoint]

huntrrz wrote...

We don't even need to argue about TIM's motives - his judgement stinks to high heaven!

That's kinda my point, too.

lol@ sleeping bag.

[DPSSOC]

Lord Coake wrote...

Mycrus Ironfist wrote...

it was in the one of the dialogues...

the asari have the commandos
the salarians have the STG
the council has the spectres
and humanity has N7

Fixed that for you.  Cerberus is a criminal organization built around a core of traitorous Alliance officers and rich businessmen, not an Alliance special ops force.

Slight problem N7 has nowhere near the autonomy to be put in the same category as the STG or Spectres (I admit ignorance of the level of autonomy for Asari Commandos).  N7 are the Marine Corp/Navy Seals to the Spectres/STG's' KGB.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 28 mars 2010 - 01:21 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

This.

Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

Wat?

Admiral Kahoku was investigating his slaughtered squad and then investigated a terroristic "rogue black-ops" branch of the alliance. I mean, sure, its dangerous to deal with terrorists, but fighting them is the only right thing to do (at least in games) He's a tragic figure at most, but he's a goddam hero, a bloody icon.

.

Kahoku was a traitor to the alliance in his investigation, was planning (and may have already have given) top secret intelligence to agents of the Shadow Broker.  He was a liability for the Aliance, and dangerous to both sides.  (This makes more sense if you play that mission sequence in the first ME)  Also "Rogue" were his words, Anderson mentions Banes but not much else.

[Vaenier]

Weskerr wrote...

There are plenty of other times when Shepard should say something, but doesn't have the option to, like right after Shepard, Jacob, and Miranda escape the Project Lazarus Faciility in that small FTL vehicle. Jacob says something like "Soldiers under your command died on Akuze in a Thresher Maw attack. Must have been hard for you." The fact that Cerberus is responsible for that is not available as a response in Shepard's dialogue wheel.

Should be a Paragon interupt to just shoot them both in the face right there and head for the Citadel.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

I'm quite sure most of the crew are the blissfully oblivious-to-the-full truth type. IIRC Ken and Gabby mentioned not knowing much about Cerberus too, they just joined because the Alliance was pissing them off.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I'm pretty sure Kelly is the one handing TIM the datapad in the opening scene though.



I could be wrong, I thought the hairstyle was the same. Too quick, and the lighting is problematic.

[Andorfiend]

huntrrz wrote...

 P.S.  Case in point - he sends a science team to investigate a supposedly dead Reaper.

A REAPER.

All contact with the team is lost.  It was "not worth the risk" (or was it resources?) to find out what happened to them, until it was learned there might be something particular of value on the derelict.

Given the level of threat the Reapers represent, it should have been the highest priority to find out what happened.  You send a team of ships and stagger them at different ranges so they can relay information, and if one or more go dark you know just how far the threat extends.

Instead of ignoring it.

We don't even need to argue about TIM's motives - his judgement stinks to high heaven!

Indeed. Remember Horizon? Where TIM stopped the alliance/Citadel from receiving word of the Collector attack because he didn't want them 'interfereing'? The colony where a few active GUARDIAN towers managed to damage the Collector ship? Imagine if TIM hadn't been such a complete imbecile or had actually cared about huan life, the collectors might have launched to find a few heavy cruisers in orbit and that would have been the end of the collector threat at least for the near term since they apparently only have the one ship. Instead TIMs direct actions lead to the Collectors escapeing and the deaths of thousands more humans including many Cerberus personel. Frankly during that dialogue with TIM I was astonished Shepard didn't have the option to at least tell TIM to let the message through. TIM probably would have ignored him, but that Shepard couldn't even suggest it was ... annoying.

[Andorfiend]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kahoku was a traitor to the alliance in his investigation, was planning (and may have already have given) top secret intelligence to agents of the Shadow Broker.  He was a liability for the Aliance, and dangerous to both sides.  (This makes more sense if you play that mission sequence in the first ME)  Also "Rogue" were his words, Anderson mentions Banes but not much else.

You are kidding, right? Cerberus had gone rogue because they were no longer following Alliance orders and were instead murdering Alliance personel. It doesn't get much more clear cut than that. Kahoku didn't give anything to the Shadowbroker, and may or may not have been planning to follow up on his promise. Even if he did Cerberus was no longer an Alliance secret they were a terrorist organization.

But yeah, you're right. They guys who happily murder Alliance personel by the score are the good guys and the man who tries to track down the scum who murdered his men is the traitor. That makes perfect sense.

[GodWood]

Vaenier wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

There are plenty of other times when Shepard should say something, but doesn't have the option to, like right after Shepard, Jacob, and Miranda escape the Project Lazarus Faciility in that small FTL vehicle. Jacob says something like "Soldiers under your command died on Akuze in a Thresher Maw attack. Must have been hard for you." The fact that Cerberus is responsible for that is not available as a response in Shepard's dialogue wheel.

Should be a Paragon interupt to just shoot them both in the face right there and head for the Citadel.

Annd doom the entire galaxy...

Brilliant idea.

[Bigdoser]

Paragons don't prejudge people imo.

[-D-C-D-]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

This.

Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

Um...Hades Dogs mission ring a bell? Experiments with Thorian Creepers in one of their research facilities? Yes, they have no connection to the incident on Feros, but they were doing dodgy things that did involve the creepers at one point.

Also, explain why Kahoku was "asking for it?" This is the way I see it. Shady organisation sets up trap to lure innocent marine platoon into Thresher Maw nest, still with no apparent logic behind it, and platoon is massacred. Admiral of platoon discovers that it was a trap, and because of a stonewalling from his supposed "allies," takes it into his own hands to discover who was responsible and have them held accountable.

In doing his duty to investigate what was almost a war crime on his own men, he was "asking for it??"

This is all in ME1. Not nonsense.

[DPSSOC]

-D-C-D- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

Um...Hades Dogs mission ring a bell? Experiments with Thorian Creepers in one of their research facilities? Yes, they have no connection to the incident on Feros, but they were doing dodgy things that did involve the creepers at one point.

Yes Cerberus was studying the Creepers, no the incident with the Creepers in the Maroon Sea cluster (think it was Nodacrux) was not their doing.  We don't know what Cerberus was doing with the Creepers though based on their track record you're probably justified in assuming it was unpleasant.

-D-C-D- wrote...
Also, explain why Kahoku was "asking for it?" This is the way I see it. Shady organisation sets up trap to lure innocent marine platoon into Thresher Maw nest, still with no apparent logic behind it,

Those marines were investigating the death of Armistan Banes, if there was a Cerberus connection the logic was keep them from finding **** out.

-D-C-D- wrote...
and platoon is massacred. Admiral of platoon discovers that it was a trap, and because of a stonewalling from his supposed "allies," takes it into his own hands to discover who was responsible and have them held accountable.

In doing his duty to investigate what was almost a war crime on his own men, he was "asking for it??"

This is all in ME1. Not nonsense.

Ok Kahoku wasn't "asking for it" until he contacted the Shadow Broker.  After finding out who he was dealing with he could have let it go and no harm would have come to him.  He chose to pursue Cerberus and paid the price for that choice.  There's an old saying, "Don't hunt what you can't kill." Kahoku failed to heed that.  Don't get me wrong what they did was most definitely wrong, Kahoku was a good man trying to do the right thing, but it was Kahoku's refusal to let the matter die that forced Cerberus' hand.

[GuardianAngel470]

-D-C-D- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

This.
Actually, cerberus was involved with the stuff on Feros.  They were paying Exo Geni to do the research.  It is in one of the terminals and is the source of a side quest.
Also a colony overrun by the thotian creepers has no identified connection to Cerberus. Replay ME1, or read ME Wiki before posting nonsense.

Um...Hades Dogs mission ring a bell? Experiments with Thorian Creepers in one of their research facilities? Yes, they have no connection to the incident on Feros, but they were doing dodgy things that did involve the creepers at one point.

Also, explain why Kahoku was "asking for it?" This is the way I see it. Shady organisation sets up trap to lure innocent marine platoon into Thresher Maw nest, still with no apparent logic behind it, and platoon is massacred. Admiral of platoon discovers that it was a trap, and because of a stonewalling from his supposed "allies," takes it into his own hands to discover who was responsible and have them held accountable.

In doing his duty to investigate what was almost a war crime on his own men, he was "asking for it??"

This is all in ME1. Not nonsense.

[Spartas Husky]

InHarmsWay wrote...



She says that line with a straight face that made me want to yell, "Get the f*ck out of here!"

You ever think, what my brothers are sisters in the military do at night when your sleeping?

"weak people sleep soundly at night because tough individuals stand at night ready to deal with any dangers that come forth"


Like I have said before. Cerberus is no different than any government today.

I'll add soemthing new.

It takes a very rational individual to see cerberus is no saint nor devil.

EVERYONE does those types of experiments. Even today, everyone does gruesome things that I personally rather not know, and even I am very literal when it comes to thigns like this.

But in Mass Effect contest. STG, SPectres, Alliance, Quarians, krogan, hanar, drell, every single specieies one way or another conducts experiments that would shock even a mass murderer, everyone does it....does it make it right??? hell no.

Point is, cerberus is no different, the only reason why cerberus is targeted as evil is because they have gotten the most attention.

Think of bioware as the "media" anyone they have more news about is regarded as evil.

how did the asari achieved such good bio amps? how do salarians keep their inteligence so fresh?

how do the turians govern a hierarchy that controls the biggest known fleet? how do the quarian captains control millions of lifes?


The only reason why you think cerberus is "extreme" is because you know of them.

[jlb524]

Uggh, I can't believe people defend Cerberus' past actions and even go as far to call Kahouku a traitor!



Cerberus is nothing but a glorified terrorist organization and I'm still fuming over being forced to work with them in ME2. Hopefully this is rectified in ME3 and the only time I have to deal with them is when I'm putting a bullet in The Illusive Man's skull.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Andorfiend wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kahoku was a traitor to the alliance in his investigation, was planning (and may have already have given) top secret intelligence to agents of the Shadow Broker.  He was a liability for the Aliance, and dangerous to both sides.  (This makes more sense if you play that mission sequence in the first ME)  Also "Rogue" were his words, Anderson mentions Banes but not much else.

You are kidding, right? Cerberus had gone rogue because they were no longer following Alliance orders and were instead murdering Alliance personel. It doesn't get much more clear cut than that. Kahoku didn't give anything to the Shadowbroker, and may or may not have been planning to follow up on his promise. Even if he did Cerberus was no longer an Alliance secret they were a terrorist organization.

But yeah, you're right. They guys who happily murder Alliance personel by the score are the good guys and the man who tries to track down the scum who murdered his men is the traitor. That makes perfect sense.

EDIT:  Also your reply doesn't really have anything to do with what I said outside of whether or not he may have given information to the SB, that was his intention.  Kakoku was a traitor to the ALLIANCE.  Giving up classified intel that should be safely kept under wraps by the Alliance because of the affiliation.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 28 mars 2010 - 06:51 .

[Internet Kraken]

You know what? If someone tried to defend these Cerberus experiments prior to Mass Effect 2, everyone would call them crazy. Yet now some people actually believe that Cerberus's actions are justified. I just have to ask; why? It's not like we got any additional perspective on these horrible experiments. There are no attempts to justify them. They are never even brought up. I don't get why people suddenly think Cerberus is okay when there actions are still unjustified.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 28 mars 2010 - 06:32 .

[Spartas Husky]

jlb524 wrote...

Uggh, I can't believe people defend Cerberus' past actions and even go as far to call Kahouku a traitor!

Cerberus is nothing but a glorified terrorist organization and I'm still fuming over being forced to work with them in ME2. Hopefully this is rectified in ME3 and the only time I have to deal with them is when I'm putting a bullet in The Illusive Man's skull.

That is exactly what makes me laugh.

Spectres are nothing more than a ubber glorified terrorist group as well.

Tell me, what is a terrorist?

Terrorist is the individual by which Terror or "fear" is a weapon all on its own.

The 2 main components of warfare is tangable assets, and the fear factor lol

Every military uses terror to win, in one way or another, there are no saints or devils when it comes to conflicts.

Like an old proverb says "in war there is no right or wrong, there is just who is left at the end"


What do you think the spectres did to the krogans? what did the salarians did to the krogans? what did the krogans did to the turians? what did the turians did to the shanxi garrison to make it surrender? bomb one block to take out just one team? that sure as hell is using terror to achieve a goal.

What did batarians try to do at Elysium?

Ask yourself this.
IN ME1 when every figure out you were a spectre....what is the first thing that came to mind??? that your "respected"??? or that you're "feared"???


ANd no I am not trying to justify them, I just dont understand either why isn't everyone talking about the STG, or the Spectre at all cost policy, or the batarians.




Is Cerberus a saint?? hell no....is it the only one who does what it does....HELL no #2 so why the big commossion over them alone.

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 28 mars 2010 - 06:35 .

[Sherana]

The very fact that someone has to try this hard to defend Cerberus should make it fairly obvious that at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM they're guilty of incredible amounts of homicidal (possibly genocidal) neglect and recklessness. Even if you accept Kelly's statement about 'noble intentions' at face value, they are SCREWING IT UP. There's only two real explanations; they're out and out evil in their experimentation, and should be stopped... or they're well intentioned extremists that are utter failures, and should be stopped.

[Spartas Husky]

Sherana wrote...

The very fact that someone has to try this hard to defend Cerberus should make it fairly obvious that at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM they're guilty of incredible amounts of homicidal (possibly genocidal) neglect and recklessness. Even if you accept Kelly's statement about 'noble intentions' at face value, they are SCREWING IT UP. There's only two real explanations; they're out and out evil in their experimentation, and should be stopped... or they're well intentioned extremists that are utter failures, and should be stopped.

Funny enough, most of humanity's advancement has come out of "extremist" of every race, gender and nationality.

Is just the way life goes on, in order for you to realize fire is dangerous, somebody must have gotten burn, and when somebody realises it can burn oneself, that somebody will also realise it can be use to burn others.

[jlb524]

Spartas Husky wrote...

That is exactly what makes me laugh.

Spectres are nothing more than a ubber glorified terrorist group as well.

Tell me, what is a terrorist?

Terrorist is the individual by which Terror or "fear" is a weapon all on its own.

Even if everyone else can be considered a terrorist, this doesn't excuse Cerberus' actions.

[Internet Kraken]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Sherana wrote...

The very fact that someone has to try this hard to defend Cerberus should make it fairly obvious that at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM they're guilty of incredible amounts of homicidal (possibly genocidal) neglect and recklessness. Even if you accept Kelly's statement about 'noble intentions' at face value, they are SCREWING IT UP. There's only two real explanations; they're out and out evil in their experimentation, and should be stopped... or they're well intentioned extremists that are utter failures, and should be stopped.

Funny enough, most of humanity's advancement has come out of "extremist" of every race, gender and nationality.

Is just the way life goes on, in order for you to realize fire is dangerous, somebody must have gotten burn, and when somebody realises it can burn oneself, that somebody will also realise it can be use to burn others.

I'm going to point you to an example I made earlier;

The kelp forests recently discovered in the waters near Antarctica has algae that contain a defensive chemical to ward of consumers. Scientists believe that the chemical may be used to combat one form of cancer. Due to regulations, they will have to spend many years testing this chemical in many ways to see what they can learn from it. Now if Cerberus was involved, they would just strap some poor bastard down and inject it straight into his veins, for science!

That's my problem with Cerberus. They always do reckless and dangerous things just because they can. I understand that sometimes we have to do extreme things to learn something. But that is not always the case. Cerberus always goes to the extreme just because they can. You don't need to feed an entire colony to thresher maws to learn what they can do. There are other ways to learn about a new species other than feeding people to them. You don't always need to do what Cerberus does just to advance. Hence why I think they are an unnecessary organization that needs to be disposed of, or at least see some major reform.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 28 mars 2010 - 06:53 .

[TuringPoint]

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

I'm quite sure most of the crew are the blissfully oblivious-to-the-full truth type. IIRC Ken and Gabby mentioned not knowing much about Cerberus too, they just joined because the Alliance was pissing them off.

I think Cerberus sold them the line that they'd be working for Shepard, not them, quite well.

And that line turned out to be true.

He wanted Shepard to have a loyal crew, everything else wasn't as important.

[Sherana]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Sherana wrote...

The very fact that someone has to try this hard to defend Cerberus should make it fairly obvious that at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM they're guilty of incredible amounts of homicidal (possibly genocidal) neglect and recklessness. Even if you accept Kelly's statement about 'noble intentions' at face value, they are SCREWING IT UP. There's only two real explanations; they're out and out evil in their experimentation, and should be stopped... or they're well intentioned extremists that are utter failures, and should be stopped.

Funny enough, most of humanity's advancement has come out of "extremist" of every race, gender and nationality.

Is just the way life goes on, in order for you to realize fire is dangerous, somebody must have gotten burn, and when somebody realises it can burn oneself, that somebody will also realise it can be use to burn others.

The difference being that you can learn fire burns by touching a log or a torch and drawing your hand back quickly when you notice it hurts.

Cerberus found out fire burns by throwing your mother onto a bonfire and recording her agonized screams for later playback.