701 réponses à ce sujet

[Internet Kraken]

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...



Yeah but I don't see how injecting thresher maw acid into a soldier advances humanities interests. Maybe I could if I got some justification for it, but there is none.

I don't either, but then I'm not a scientist. I assume that they expected to learn something worthwhile from it. In any case, Toombs is a lunatic so I doubt he had a clear idea of what it was the scientists were doing to him (though it was no doubt unpleasant).

If there had been any evidence that anything productive had come from this then maybe my opinion would be different. But as it stands now, it looks like Cerberus did this just because they could. And Toombs being a lunatic might have had something to do with the Cerberus scientists killing his whole squad and then spending the next few years torturing him. Again, no justification for any of this beyond "because we can". If this is Cerberus's business policy, then Cerberus is bad business.

[TuringPoint]

I'm not OK with cerberus. TIM is not as wise as he thinks he is, to quote Samara loosely.



All in all, Cerberus' "goal" is to advocate human survival. Survival SOMETIMES requires questionable acts, such as stealing food, but Cerberus' projects all too frequently go beyond what's necessary or wise for humanity's progress. Trying to use Rachni as war pets? They could at least do some preliminary research before they devote billions to idiotic, dangerous, dead-end projects.



Like trying to save Reaper tech. Jesus.

[TuringPoint]

Internet Kraken wrote...

If there had been any evidence that anything productive had come from this then maybe my opinion would be different. 

This.  That sums it up nicely.

[kraidy1117]

Alocormin wrote...

I'm not OK with cerberus. TIM is not as wise as he thinks he is, to quote Samara loosely.

All in all, Cerberus' "goal" is to advocate human survival. Survival SOMETIMES requires questionable acts, such as stealing food, but Cerberus' projects all too frequently go beyond what's necessary or wise for humanity's progress. Trying to use Rachni as war pets? They could at least do some preliminary research before they devote billions to idiotic, dangerous, dead-end projects.

Like trying to save Reaper tech. Jesus.

Well Cerberus saw that Helix was not haivng trouble, until they took the babies away from the Queen <_<

[Internet Kraken]

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...



If there had been any evidence that anything productive had come from this then maybe my opinion would be different.

There is no evidence for or against it.

Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it. Or that whatever it did result in was so minor that it doesn't merit mention. Point is,there currently isn't any justification for feeding an entire colony and squad of soldiers to a thresher maw and then torturing the only survivor. I can't really pretend Cerberus is good when they show nothing to support this.

[kraidy1117]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

If there had been any evidence that anything productive had come from this then maybe my opinion would be different.

There is no evidence for or against it.

Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it. Or that whatever it did result in was so minor that it doesn't merit mention. Point is,there currently isn't any justification for feeding an entire colony and squad of soldiers to a thresher maw and then torturing the only survivor. I can't really pretend Cerberus is good when they show nothing to support this.

Nor are they evil. Evil would be just feeding the colony for no reason. Cerberus wanted to see how much damage a Maw could do and so far. Was it wrong? Yes, was it evil? Not realy because Cerberus was trying to find out stuff, I highly doubt it went like this.

TIM: Resercher, I want you to feed a colony to a Thresher Maw.
Resercher: Why?
TIM: Just for fun

If anything TIm wanted information and the reserches part of that cell thought that feeding a cololny was the best descion.

[kraidy1117]

Shavon wrote...

I think Kelly, Gabby and Ken are ignorant of the extent of the twisted **** Cerberus does. I can't imagine Kelly approving what happened with Jack

Whats funny about Gabby and Ken is that they say it right to you. They don't know anything about Cerberus realy, they just want to fight the true threat and sadly Cerberus is the only one doing it. Same reason Rupert is on the ship. Same as Chakwas, not only is she here to take care of Joker but the Alliance treated her like crap after Shepard was killed, same as Joker.

[Internet Kraken]

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...


Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it.

As long as you are willing to admit that your assumption is a baseless one.

It's not a baseless one. If he did lead to some really big discovery, why wouldn't the scientist have mentioned this? He could have said that their work was unethical, but it lead to something incredibly important for humanity! Instead, he just says "No way, I didn't do that! Toombs is lying! Shoot him! What are you waiting for? Shoot him!". He doesn't look like someone preforming research for the advancement of humanity. He looks like an evil bastard. Meanwhile, there is nothing to support your claim that something productive did come out of this.
The game doesn't even attempt to justify the actions of this particular character. It's more reasonable to assume that his work yielded nothing good.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nor are they evil. Evil would be just
feeding the colony for no reason. Cerberus wanted to see how much
damage a Maw could do and so far. Was it wrong? Yes, was it evil? Not
realy because Cerberus was trying to find out stuff, I highly doubt it
went like this.

TIM: Resercher, I want you to feed a colony to a Thresher Maw.
Resercher: Why?
TIM: Just for fun

If anything TIm wanted information and the reserches part of that cell thought that feeding a cololny was the best descion.

Oh,
so it's evil so long as they were trying to find something out, no
matter how reckless and inefficent the expirement is? So if NASA said
they were going to launch 1000 people into space to test what would
happen, you wouldn't think it was evil?

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 27 mars 2010 - 11:07 .

[kraidy1117]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...


Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it.

As long as you are willing to admit that your assumption is a baseless one.

It's not a baseless one. If he did lead to some really big discovery, why wouldn't the scientist have mentioned this? He could have said that their work was unethical, but it lead to something incredibly important for humanity! Instead, he just says "No way, I didn't do that! Toombs is lying! Shoot him! What are you waiting for? Shoot him!". He doesn't look like someone preforming research for the advancement of humanity. He looks like an evil bastard. Meanwhile, there is nothing to support your claim that something productive did come out of this.
The game doesn't even attempt to justify the actions of this particular character. It's more reasonable to assume that his work yielded nothing good.

So Bioware should spoon feed us the story then?

[Mallissin]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Kahouku was asking for it

Hate the game, not the playa.

[Mcjon01]

I just think Cerberus has a bad habit of focusing on the short-term over the long-term. They decide to torture children to make a better biotic, and it works. Unfortunately, it also made better psychopaths, and things went to hell. They decide they're going to save human lives by training space monsters to act as front-line soldiers. It works. Unfortunately, it turns out that oh, right, they're space monsters, and they start slaughtering everyone indiscriminately.



As a concept, Cerberus is great -- a human answer to the Spectres or the STG. In practice, though, I think they're hampered by the fact the TIM insists on overseeing and controlling everything. No matter how smart he is, he's still just one man. The organization would probably benefit from a few more people at the top, along with some greater oversight within the organization.

[kraidy1117]

Mcjon01 wrote...

I just think Cerberus has a bad habit of focusing on the short-term over the long-term. They decide to torture children to make a better biotic, and it works. Unfortunately, it also made better psychopaths, and things went to hell. They decide they're going to save human lives by training space monsters to act as front-line soldiers. It works. Unfortunately, it turns out that oh, right, they're space monsters, and they start slaughtering everyone indiscriminately.

As a concept, Cerberus is great -- a human answer to the Spectres or the STG. In practice, though, I think they're hampered by the fact the TIM insists on overseeing and controlling everything. No matter how smart he is, he's still just one man. The organization would probably benefit from a few more people at the top, along with some greater oversight within the organization.

Thats why I hope Shepard can take over Cerberus and arrest or kill TIM.

[RyrineaNara]

Yes, I was thrown for a loop. She had tool written on her forehead plain, and simple. Cerberus isn't great at all they are terrorist. There is nothing to  support people claims that anything productive came from these experiments. I find anyone who tortures children criminals to the fullest.

Modifié par RyrineaNara, 27 mars 2010 - 11:12 .

[Internet Kraken]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...


Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it.

As long as you are willing to admit that your assumption is a baseless one.

It's not a baseless one. If he did lead to some really big discovery, why wouldn't the scientist have mentioned this? He could have said that their work was unethical, but it lead to something incredibly important for humanity! Instead, he just says "No way, I didn't do that! Toombs is lying! Shoot him! What are you waiting for? Shoot him!". He doesn't look like someone preforming research for the advancement of humanity. He looks like an evil bastard. Meanwhile, there is nothing to support your claim that something productive did come out of this.
The game doesn't even attempt to justify the actions of this particular character. It's more reasonable to assume that his work yielded nothing good.

So Bioware should spoon feed us the story then?

Giving us some insight into the results of the work would not be spoon feeding us the story. It would be giving us a reason to believe that their work was justified so you can make a proper choice. The fact that results of the work weren't mentioned suggests that nothing productive came from them.

[kraidy1117]

Internet Kraken wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...


Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it.

As long as you are willing to admit that your assumption is a baseless one.

It's not a baseless one. If he did lead to some really big discovery, why wouldn't the scientist have mentioned this? He could have said that their work was unethical, but it lead to something incredibly important for humanity! Instead, he just says "No way, I didn't do that! Toombs is lying! Shoot him! What are you waiting for? Shoot him!". He doesn't look like someone preforming research for the advancement of humanity. He looks like an evil bastard. Meanwhile, there is nothing to support your claim that something productive did come out of this.
The game doesn't even attempt to justify the actions of this particular character. It's more reasonable to assume that his work yielded nothing good.

So Bioware should spoon feed us the story then?

Giving us some insight into the results of the work would not be spoon feeding us the story. It would be giving us a reason to believe that their work was justified so you can make a proper choice. The fact that results of the work weren't mentioned suggests that nothing productive came from them.

Or maybe they don't want to tell us? Look at Jack. She shows us what the Biotic potential for a human can be (tho as a result she is crazy and brutal and the way that Cell did it was disgusting) but we don't know anything about her until ME2.

[hazarkazra]

It has been mentioned before that Cerberus works in severall cells, The cells work independently and know little of eachother. There is a good change that the cell you operate from and all the people you work with is the 'goody two shoes' cell of Cerberus. In order to have a succefull galaxy wide operation you can't rely on all the 'evil' humans to do your work. You will need normal people aswell. The Cell structure makes it possible to put people that would take offense at the darker workings of Cerberus in a place that would prevent them from finding out. Miranda even says when you ask about the illegal research sites you found that they were different cells from the one you're working with now.

[RyrineaNara]

I'm sorry Cerberus works in cells that are all controlled by The Illusive man. He ordered people to torture Children, anyone who tries to hurt children are monsters in my opinion. I don't buy oh the cell went rouge crap they spewed through out the game.

[Mcjon01]

Internet Kraken wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...


Then I'm going to assume that nothing productive did come out of it.

As long as you are willing to admit that your assumption is a baseless one.

It's not a baseless one. If he did lead to some really big discovery, why wouldn't the scientist have mentioned this? He could have said that their work was unethical, but it lead to something incredibly important for humanity! Instead, he just says "No way, I didn't do that! Toombs is lying! Shoot him! What are you waiting for? Shoot him!". He doesn't look like someone preforming research for the advancement of humanity. He looks like an evil bastard. Meanwhile, there is nothing to support your claim that something productive did come out of this.
The game doesn't even attempt to justify the actions of this particular character. It's more reasonable to assume that his work yielded nothing good.

So Bioware should spoon feed us the story then?

Giving us some insight into the results of the work would not be spoon feeding us the story. It would be giving us a reason to believe that their work was justified so you can make a proper choice. The fact that results of the work weren't mentioned suggests that nothing productive came from them.

It seems self-evident to me that Cerberus was attempting to turn Toombs into a human-thresher hybrid so that, as God Emperor of the universe, he may lead humanity into a new golden age with the complete prescience this would grant him.

[Bucky_McLachlan]

^^^Ya well you actually like Kaiden and Ashley so no one cares what you think.

FACT: Cerberus is portrayed as an organization that carries out morally questionable experiments in ME1.

FACT: This is never contradicted in ME2.

Period, end of story.

Modifié par Bucky_McLachlan, 27 mars 2010 - 11:22 .