701 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

I think he knew what was going on-- I just don't think he knew quite how brutal his cells were becoming in regard to their experimental victims though. But the codex says that while Shepard was dead, there WAS a change in Cerberus policy slightly, speculating there may have been a change of power. TIM might've taken over, and then as his first project started up Project Lazarus. It seems TIM was near the top, but only became head honcho recently. Of course, maybe he's just a big fat liar. 

The latter makes more sense.

As far as I know TIM has always been the boss of Cerberus. Since day 1 if I recall correctly.

This still makes zero sense to me. There is a ton of cells affilated with Cerberus doing shady sh*t....so, how is Cerberus not shady? You are defined by your actions. Just for the sake of argument let's say TIM is totally innocent and every single evil thing was a rogue cell....Cerberus is still evil, as defined by the actions of their members.

If I make an organization with 10 groups, and 8 of them are off doing whatever illegal activities they want, the organization's reputation would be that we're criminals. It wouldn't matter if they were personally co-signed by me, or that "not all" of my groups were doing wrong.

[Wild Still]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Wrong, Cerberus was a black ops part of the Aliance that did reaserch for the Alliance. They broke apart some time before ME events. 

You are aware of the fact that the previous history you refer to is a blurb in a codex, right? Actions speak louder than the Codex, as of ME1 and into ME2 Cerberus is a murderous, vile organization headed by a murderous, vile individual.
Also yes, cells are the common way to construct a culture of denial, every terrorist organization and intelligence agency in the world engages in the exact same practice for that very reason.

Not that any of it matters now, Cerberus is getting the Deus Ex Machina from Bioware just like the whole "Hero of the Citadel" thing did. Next up, TIM kissing hands and shaking babies.

[kraidy1117]

hex23 wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

I think he knew what was going on-- I just don't think he knew quite how brutal his cells were becoming in regard to their experimental victims though. But the codex says that while Shepard was dead, there WAS a change in Cerberus policy slightly, speculating there may have been a change of power. TIM might've taken over, and then as his first project started up Project Lazarus. It seems TIM was near the top, but only became head honcho recently. Of course, maybe he's just a big fat liar. 

The latter makes more sense.

As far as I know TIM has always been the boss of Cerberus. Since day 1 if I recall correctly.

This still makes zero sense to me. There is a ton of cells affilated with Cerberus doing shady sh*t....so, how is Cerberus not shady? You are defined by your actions. Just for the sake of argument let's say TIM is totally innocent and every single evil thing was a rogue cell....Cerberus is still evil, as defined by the actions of their members.

If I make an organization with 10 groups, and 8 of them are off doing whatever illegal activities they want, the organization's reputation would be that we're criminals. It wouldn't matter if they were personally co-signed by me, or that "not all" of my groups were doing wrong.

Not if it helps the greater good.I rather do some sahdy stuff if it helps then not be shady and sit on my ass ala the council.

[kraidy1117]

Wild Still wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Wrong, Cerberus was a black ops part of the Aliance that did reaserch for the Alliance. They broke apart some time before ME events. 

You are aware of the fact that the previous history you refer to is a blurb in a codex, right? Actions speak louder than the Codex, as of ME1 and into ME2 Cerberus is a murderous, vile organization headed by a murderous, vile individual.
Also yes, cells are the common way to construct a culture of denial, every terrorist organization and intelligence agency in the world engages in the exact same practice for that very reason.

Not that any of it matters now, Cerberus is getting the Deus Ex Machina from Bioware just like the whole "Hero of the Citadel" thing did. Next up, TIM kissing hands and shaking babies.

Um the admiral even tells you Cerberus was a black ops part of the Alliance and seprated them self. Did you even play the game?

[hex23]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Only a couple of experiments have failed and they where not rouge. The one on Azuse (spelling) was a succes because Cerberus got there reserch on Maws and had a a life subject matter. It is wrong? Yes it is, but it still had vital reserch. As for the Rachni, no one knew what would happen with them, it was a huge risk and it failed. The husk project was a succes because Cerberus studied how a human became a husk and what happens. It is disgusting, but it is for the greater good. The Thorian creepers failed because Shepard broke into that base. Jack and the Acension project failed because of betrayal. The Lazarus project did not realy fail, even if Shepard destorys the base. They still defetaed the Collectors and that was the point of that project.

They are not good, but not evil because they are doing stuff for the greater good.

Saying "the one on Akuze was a success because they got the research they needed", no offense but that's retarded. By your logic anything they do is justified as long as they achieve their goal.

Which is ironic considering TIM himself obviously doesn't agree with that.

The Jack project failed because the kids rebelled. Why did the kids rebel? Because Cerberus was torturing them. The Husk project was pointless considering people are still turning into Husks. Saying "the Thorian Creeper failed because Shep".....no, stop. That makes no sense. Shep is the hero of the "Mass Effect" series. Anything that fails "because of him" shouldn't have been done in the first place. Including messing with the Thorian.

[hex23]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not if it helps the greater good.I rather do some sahdy stuff if it helps then not be shady and sit on my ass ala the council.

TIM runs Cerberus and he obviously disagrees with you given his anger at how some of his cells are operating.

[kraidy1117]

hex23 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Not if it helps the greater good.I rather do some sahdy stuff if it helps then not be shady and sit on my ass ala the council.

TIM runs Cerberus and he obviously disagrees with you given his anger at how some of his cells are operating.

[Wild Still]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Um the admiral even tells you Cerberus was a black ops part of the Alliance and seprated them self. Did you even play the game?

Good lord man, are you missing my point? It's about actions... You know what, I give up. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make the meat taste decent until you smoke it.

[Destructo-Bot]

kraidy1117 wrote...

As Bucky said yesterday to me, your an idiot.

When calling someone an idiot, it's best not to make a 3rd grade English mistake. Your is not the contraction of "you are", i.e. YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

I haven't read one coherent or sensible thought from you in this thread. I genuinely hope you are never in any position to influence anything of any sort of importance whatsoever. I pray your day job consists of folding socks together.

Cerberus is comically evil, any moderate amount of sleuthing will reveal this. There are many plot points available from ME1 and the way through to EDI's unblocked memory at the end of ME2 that will show just how mustache-twirlingly evil the organization is. Where is your head and how far up your behind is it? There have been a ton of folks in this thread with relevant points that you simply dismiss without one iota of intelligent rebuttal.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 28 mars 2010 - 02:17 .

[Lalandrathon]

The Spectres are definitely skirting the line of evil. Not something that's supportive of the rule of law. Could be better than the alternative depending on the attitudes of individual Spectres, but if the handling of Saren is any indication then the Spectres are probably on the evilish side, perhaps a necessary evil. At least they are sanctioned and directly appointed and commanded by the lawful government of Citadel space.



Cerberus is still far, far more evil.

[Destructo-Bot]

Also TIM has someone he doesn't like kidnapped and implanted with REAPER tech and basically turned into a slave. Someone who had told TIM to his face that he was going to do everything in his power to stay as far away from Cerberus as possible. It's the plot of the next Mass Effect book.

Slavery, child trafficking and slavery, murder, extortion, theft & espionage, terrorism, torture, unethical experiments on unwilling subjects, experiments on children, assassination, kidnapping.

Bunch of kittens they are. Stand up folks, not evil at all. No sir.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 28 mars 2010 - 02:29 .

[Gabey5]

kohakou was a moron to go it alone

[Destructo-Bot]

By that logic Shepard is a moron to go it alone against the Reapers. Shep isn't getting much help from the Council or the Alliance but he does what's right anyway. Khahoku is an example of what can happen to Shepard just as easily.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 28 mars 2010 - 02:30 .

[shnizzler93]

To those that say, "How can you justify Cerberus' Actions?" Well, millions of people in Europe somehow justified Hitler's persecution of the Jews...

[Bigdoser]

The funney thing is that your crew know nothing about cerb past actions TIM wants to get shepard on their side showing that cerb is not bad it seems some people have fallen for it.

[DPSSOC]

Destructo-Bot wrote...
Slavery, child trafficking and slavery, murder, extortion, theft & espionage, terrorism, torture, unethical experiments on unwilling subjects, experiments on children, assassination, kidnapping.

Bunch of kittens they are. Stand up folks, not evil at all. No sir.

Well you know what they say, you can't make an omlette without...torturing a few people I guess, I don't know personally I am not a chef and have no idea how to make a proper omlette.

In all seriousness I don't think anybody defending Cerberus denies that their methods are monstrous.  My view on the matter is that it's intent that's important not action, so while TIM certainly isn't going to win any humanitarian of the year awards I can understand and appreciate why he does what he does.

[Speakeasy13]

Shandepared wrote...

Lalandrathon wrote...

 At least they are sanctioned and directly appointed and commanded by the lawful government of Citadel space.

Cerberus is still far, far more evil.

The only people Spectres are held accountable to are the Councilor's themselves. That's it, just those three people. Saren's reputation was well known and yet the Council did not care. They didn't even launch any heart-felt investigations into his activities. It was only Shepard and the Alliance acting on their own that finally forced them to take action.

The Council is not any worse than Cerberus is. The only reason anybody thinks they are better is because they can set themselves up as being a "symbol" of unity. That's all they are though; a symbol. There is no truth or substance behind. The entire Council government is tyrannical and the Spectres are its secret police.

Even if the Coucil is indeed selfish and ethnocentric (which they are but to a much lesser degree than Cerberus), they still represent 3 races. 3 > 1. Do the math.

The only reason you think Cerberus is not worse than the Council is because you are human and Cerberus is human. And that makes you all the more ethnocentric yourself. How ironic.

Besides, to say the entire Coucil government is tyrannical is saying America is tyrannical and the CIA are its secret police.

[Speakeasy13]

DPSSOC wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...
Slavery, child trafficking and slavery, murder, extortion, theft & espionage, terrorism, torture, unethical experiments on unwilling subjects, experiments on children, assassination, kidnapping.

Bunch of kittens they are. Stand up folks, not evil at all. No sir.

Well you know what they say, you can't make an omlette without...torturing a few people I guess, I don't know personally I am not a chef and have no idea how to make a proper omlette.

In all seriousness I don't think anybody defending Cerberus denies that their methods are monstrous.  My view on the matter is that it's intent that's important not action, so while TIM certainly isn't going to win any humanitarian of the year awards I can understand and appreciate why he does what he does.

Clearly you haven't read through this thread and see 70% of what Cerberus puppies have been saying.
In other words, the end justifies the means. If that's your logic there's really no need for you to be so polite, witty and diplomatic here. Being a d!ckhead usually gets the point across better
Mr. "Human > everyone else" not getting a humanitarian award? How ironic.

Your last point explains itself perfectly here. What is humanity to you? What TIM Cerberus is doing is going against everything that makes us human here, yet they claim to put humanity above everything else. Not only is that oxymoronic it's downright hyprocryptical. If you're going to be ethnocentric and exnophobic, at least have the decency to not hide behind some noble "humanitarian" objectives.

[Zulu_DFA]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Besides, to say the entire Coucil government is tyrannical is saying America is tyrannical and the CIA are its secret police.

Even thinking that is a blasthemy! Light up the torches, good christians!!!

[Bigdoser]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...
Slavery, child trafficking and slavery, murder, extortion, theft & espionage, terrorism, torture, unethical experiments on unwilling subjects, experiments on children, assassination, kidnapping.

Bunch of kittens they are. Stand up folks, not evil at all. No sir.

Well you know what they say, you can't make an omlette without...torturing a few people I guess, I don't know personally I am not a chef and have no idea how to make a proper omlette.

In all seriousness I don't think anybody defending Cerberus denies that their methods are monstrous.  My view on the matter is that it's intent that's important not action, so while TIM certainly isn't going to win any humanitarian of the year awards I can understand and appreciate why he does what he does.

Clearly you haven't read through this thread and see 70% of what Cerberus puppies have been saying.
In other words, the end justifies the means. If that's your logic there's really no need for you to be so polite, witty and diplomatic here. Being a d!ckhead usually gets the point across better
Mr. "Human > everyone else" not getting a humanitarian award? How ironic.

Your last point explains itself perfectly here. What is humanity to you? What TIM Cerberus is doing is going against everything that makes us human here, yet they claim to put humanity above everything else. Not only is that oxymoronic it's downright hyprocryptical. If you're going to be ethnocentric and exnophobic, at least have the decency to not hide behind some noble "humanitarian" objectives.

Awesome post.