74 réponses à ce sujet

[maikanix]

zWolf wrote...

DSWDalish wrote...

ixobelle wrote...

In other news I heard you can find pictures of real naked people on the internet.

whats with your crusade against a nude mod? I used one in oblivion cause it made the body look amazing with armor on. And allowed me to use alot more armor mods that required you to have it. I agree that the body needs to be redone. http://www.fileplane...ment--BABE--mod is what it needs to look like IMO. I guarantee you 95% of the people who want one dotn want to ****** to it bro.

Um... I like your optomistic faith in humanity there DSW, but don't you think your non faping people estimite might just be a tad bit high there?  There's alot o collage age kids buyin this game, and not all of em are gonna be wanting a 'nude mod' so that the armor will look amazing... I'm just sayin....

:-P

Lol, Those college kids, right? They'll ****** to anything.

Well, regardless, THIS college kid would want it, and would want it only for the looks. It did wonders for the Elder scrolls games. It really is about aesthetics. Besides, as that crazy crusader said, it's easy to find real naked people on the internet.

What I don't understand is why the devs did this. Obviously Morrigan is well-designed, and proportioned. Why are the PC females so bland? Did they just spend lots of extra time on her? They probably did...creepy.

Modifié par maikanix, 09 novembre 2009 - 11:36 .

[Aisling the Drow]

It would almost seem like female pc characters are an afterthought to Bioware and Bethesda if the NPC models didnt look the same way.

[Twitchmonkey]

Dmuse wrote...

I love how everyone is worried about how things look rather than how things work, the gameplay, the writing, the immersion, the tactics, the ai, etc etc...

I don't care if it was stick figures, it would be fun. There are certainly more important things than the imagery of what the female form, in a fantasy world looks like. But right, you want it to be more historically accurate? Because women in the time period with castles, knights, kings and swordplay were generally either working class peasant stock, with stocky builds, or rotund nobles who 'enjoyed' their food enough to show their wealth. Oh, of course there were the beggars and prostitutes as well but they weren't exactly, appealing by our standards these days.

Anyway, you don't have to even bring this topic up because image is so implanted into the psyche of todays minds that someone is going to make mods to change all of these aspects in time, without any prompting from someone who can't do it themselves.

Mods of all sorts are necessary, and some people have specialized talents. I'ma a 3D modeler, it's what I do, I can make pots, pans, swords, more feminine women, etc., I can't do anything about the gameplay or the writing or tactics, I have no knowledge or expertise in this area.

There also seems to be this conception that the problem with the female bodies lies with there being too much muscle or them not being slim enough. Both of these are untrue, they certainly aren't too thick and their muscle definition is fine, however, proportionally, they are off. Their shoulders are too broad and their hips too narrow, that's not to say they should look like Jessica Rabbit, but I would imagine their ratio of shoulders to hips falls outside of the norm, which makes them look a good bit more manly than an average woman, let alone an idealized one.

Unfortunately, while I would love to have an attempt at this mod, I'm just a modeler, not a software expert, and there is still a lot that needs to be worked out in terms of the importing and exporting of models, rigging, and animation.

Edit: Oh, and I found the female PCs in Oblivion to be much better. They still weren't idealized, which isn't a problem, but they looked like women, at least moreso than they do in DA.

Modifié par Twitchmonkey, 10 novembre 2009 - 12:00 .

[Aisling the Drow]

Thank you Twitchmonkey for your thoughtful reply... I mentioned somewhere else that I believe the way they got around this problem in NWN2 was to just make the armour and cloths models have accurate porportions.

[Eshaye]

Ellestor wrote...

Also, Eshaye, that blob that is your signature is breaking threads. Kill it.

I would have killed it faster if you'd PM'ed me the problem..

For the person that fears what the community could come up with as far as body mods go, in Oblivion there was only one tres bad bod mod (Growlf's) imo, the rest while different from each other were all much much better then the default.

And on the comment more time was spend on Morrigan's body, and her armor no doubt, why the beady little yellow eyes?  Need to fix that...

Modifié par Eshaye, 10 novembre 2009 - 12:26 .

[Ambaryerno]

I think the yellow eyes are to suggest there's something a little.... "off" about her (no spoilers! I've been busy and only just now got out of Ostagar).

[Ellestor]

Indeed. Morrigan's eye color is not a bug. 

Modifié par Ellestor, 10 novembre 2009 - 01:30 .

[Lethe Vas'Dur]

Humm might need to change the colors of the wire frame but here is what the male and female base meshes look like overlaid.



If you want the females to look more curvy you are going to have to edit the armor as it does not appear to deform to match the character. Which makes sense since you tweak the face not the body. Also there is a setting in the game that is called something like level of importance or such which loads one of three settings 0 2 or 3 with zero being the high resolution version and two and three hopefully only used from a distance.

The high resolution face is amazing I just don't think I've seen it anywhere.

If anyone needs help getting assets back into the engine feel free to bug me, as I have uti working and hammering through the libary part to add new swords to the game. I was going to finish the game first when I noticed that all the longswords pretty much were the same sword. Including the Cousland family sword... lol

And once I started playing in the toolset, I kinda got distraced and may have to finish my noble pc origin mod first.

[Acemath]

Female bodies...You can say anything about the Asian peeps,but wtf,they make a heck of female game-characters.If you don't believe me,look on youtube for vids on "Tera,the exalted realm of something something "

[DSWDalish]

LOL @acemath qft

[Brian Chung]

Ah yeah, the wonders of having to deal with one skeleton rig for everything.

[Ellestor]

 All of the 'what a real woman looks like'-type comments keep reminding me of this.

Yeah, it's a strawman. I can't help it, I'm afraid.

[zimm4973]

hi, i loved the models for oblivion and fallout 3 (i own both), and would really like to see the moding community for Dragon age become as active as the ones that have developed around the previously mentioned games. (if you need proof look at fallout 3 nexus and tes nexus, 2 of the best mod sites i have ever seen) its that type of effort on the parto f the modders that really makes or breaks a game, and no im not just talking about nude mods new armor ect, the new quests and perspectives are wonderful and i cant wait to see what people do for this game (sorry spelling so many words incorectly)

[Ambaryerno]

I've noticed that the female body shape seems to change significantly depending on what equipment is being worn, in a way that can't be accounted for JUST by the shape of the armor. One specific example is Morrigan. When she wears her default garb she does seem to have a somewhat more realistically proportioned figure. I put the "Chasnid Robes" on her and her body shape changed entirely. It looks like she got TALLER, too...

[DSWDalish]

zimm4973 wrote...

hi, i loved the models for oblivion and fallout 3 (i own both), and would really like to see the moding community for Dragon age become as active as the ones that have developed around the previously mentioned games. (if you need proof look at fallout 3 nexus and tes nexus, 2 of the best mod sites i have ever seen) its that type of effort on the parto f the modders that really makes or breaks a game, and no im not just talking about nude mods new armor ect, the new quests and perspectives are wonderful and i cant wait to see what people do for this game (sorry spelling so many words incorectly)

tes nexus and FO3 nexus were gifts from god. I remember spending countless hours dling mods cause they made it soo easy to navigate it. I hope somoen makes a DA:O Nexus.

[Aisling the Drow]

Yeah I had alteast 2gigs of downloads for both Oblivion and FO3. lol I wish Biowares games were as easily modded as Bethesda's games... And a DAO-nexus would be really great I think.

[Tantalus010]

Brian Chung wrote...

Ah yeah, the wonders of having to deal with one skeleton rig for everything.

Yes, and that handily explains why my male city elf has a tiny head - his body is human-sized, not elf-sized. 

Seriously, BioWare, if you're going to pull this kind of crap, why bother making the elves smaller to begin with?  Why not just give them the same proportions as the humans and then this whole problem is averted right from the start?  I just don't see how decisions like this get made and it gets through testing without multiple people saying "Yeah, the elves really don't look right."

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Tantalus010 wrote...

Brian Chung wrote...

Ah yeah, the wonders of having to deal with one skeleton rig for everything.

Yes, and that handily explains why my male city elf has a tiny head - his body is human-sized, not elf-sized. 

Seriously, BioWare, if you're going to pull this kind of crap, why bother making the elves smaller to begin with?  Why not just give them the same proportions as the humans and then this whole problem is averted right from the start?  I just don't see how decisions like this get made and it gets through testing without multiple people saying "Yeah, the elves really don't look right."

I thought the elves looked fine myself.  (Also, Elves are most certainly smaller, just open the character creator and swap between the elves.  Atleast looking at the females, the human is much larger)

Modifié par ITSSEXYTIME, 10 novembre 2009 - 05:13 .

[DFM2005]

Lethe Vas'Dur wrote...

Humm might need to change the colors of the wire frame but here is what the male and female base meshes look like overlaid.



If you want the females to look more curvy you are going to have to edit the armor as it does not appear to deform to match the character. Which makes sense since you tweak the face not the body. Also there is a setting in the game that is called something like level of importance or such which loads one of three settings 0 2 or 3 with zero being the high resolution version and two and three hopefully only used from a distance.

The high resolution face is amazing I just don't think I've seen it anywhere.

If anyone needs help getting assets back into the engine feel free to bug me, as I have uti working and hammering through the libary part to add new swords to the game. I was going to finish the game first when I noticed that all the longswords pretty much were the same sword. Including the Cousland family sword... lol

And once I started playing in the toolset, I kinda got distraced and may have to finish my noble pc origin mod first.

Why doesn't the armor deform to the skeleton as it's resized? It's not like this is Biowares first RPG they know how to do this yet I guess they didn't feel it wasn't important enough this round?

What was added in the game, that was worth removing the ability to resize armor as your characters resized?

[Toom316]

Tantalus010 wrote...

Brian Chung wrote...

Ah yeah, the wonders of having to deal with one skeleton rig for everything.

Yes, and that handily explains why my male city elf has a tiny head - his body is human-sized, not elf-sized. 

Seriously, BioWare, if you're going to pull this kind of crap, why bother making the elves smaller to begin with?  Why not just give them the same proportions as the humans and then this whole problem is averted right from the start?  I just don't see how decisions like this get made and it gets through testing without multiple people saying "Yeah, the elves really don't look right."

It all has to do with time investment vers return. Is the effect worth the time required to make the effect happen. In this case I am certain that the time required to rig each race / sex with different rigging would have taken alot longer in the long run. Cause then with each rig you will more then likely need to create different armour models to fit onto the different rigs. Really it would have 2x 4x the time required and amount of artwork required to make it happen.  

So if it came down between cutting 2 of the story plot lines from the game..  Kill off Redcliff and another area.. Then I am sure they could have made it happen.   But in all reality the effect wouldn't have made a huge difference to the game so I imagine it just was not worth the invest to make it happen. Instead we got more armor models and such.  Small price to pay for a greater good I think.

Game design is always about trying to fit as much you can into what time and budget you have to work with. Sometimes you have to make decisions like this to fit more in and small things like this. At the end of the day having one rig is really just a small thing as for the most part it doesn't seem to bother alot of people. 

[Toom316]

DFM2005 wrote...

Lethe Vas'Dur wrote...

Humm might need to change the colors of the wire frame but here is what the male and female base meshes look like overlaid.



If you want the females to look more curvy you are going to have to edit the armor as it does not appear to deform to match the character. Which makes sense since you tweak the face not the body. Also there is a setting in the game that is called something like level of importance or such which loads one of three settings 0 2 or 3 with zero being the high resolution version and two and three hopefully only used from a distance.

The high resolution face is amazing I just don't think I've seen it anywhere.

If anyone needs help getting assets back into the engine feel free to bug me, as I have uti working and hammering through the libary part to add new swords to the game. I was going to finish the game first when I noticed that all the longswords pretty much were the same sword. Including the Cousland family sword... lol

And once I started playing in the toolset, I kinda got distraced and may have to finish my noble pc origin mod first.

Why doesn't the armor deform to the skeleton as it's resized? It's not like this is Biowares first RPG they know how to do this yet I guess they didn't feel it wasn't important enough this round?

What was added in the game, that was worth removing the ability to resize armor as your characters resized?

I imagined it purely had to do with both the animation and detail of the armor. Somethings would just look silly resized down to the characters size.  And/or it could have just been a limitation of the engine that they had to work with this round. Or it could have just been a oversite.

[Eshaye]

Ellestor wrote...

Indeed. Morrigan's eye color is not a bug. 

It's not the color I have a problem with it's how small and tiny they are.  I actually think they are a very cool color! 

[MOTpoetryION]

less manly. what the heck i trhink they look pretty good and i dont know if anyone else has noticed

but thumbs up to bioware .they actually have labias that move a little bit when the girls shift there stance . its epic : P : P

[MOTpoetryION]

also i just have lil and mor walk around without there armor on .and have the settings pause before a fight so i can put there armor on . i rather like that : P

[Lethe Vas'Dur]

Toom316 wrote...
...
So if it came down between cutting 2 of the story plot lines from the game..  Kill off Redcliff and another area.. Then I am sure they could have made it happen.   But in all reality the effect wouldn't have made a huge difference to the game so I imagine it just was not worth the invest to make it happen. Instead we got more armor models and such.  Small price to pay for a greater good I think.

Usually they guy building the area has nothing to due to with the guy animating or rigging unless they happen to be more of a generalist. Even then there are few guys who can do it all well. My guess is that was in part due to the huge battle scenes. If you have
one rig you can get far more animation as it will work for many
different places and parts. Animation is one of those things you can
just keep tweaking, unlike modeling when it hits a certain point it is
done. One thing I have not found is the rig base they used. Just bits and pieces that break when converted to FBX files.

Without seeing the rig and some of the internals I have not dug into yet, it looks like base mesh above is not there all the time and is replaced by the armor covering it as there are different meshes for the female models and the male models. So Morrigan could get taller and thiner in differnt clothing as from the knees down is one set of meshes from the knees to the throat is another. The arms seem to start at the elbows I'm guessing to prevent streching the side funny. There is a head helmet and hair section that work together some how. What is more interesting is that you could swap the hands of the PC to make the cut scenes more interesting...

Once we get a way to convert meshes to mmh, and maybe even a copy of the rig they used, you could take any female poly mesh of roughly the same shape and get new females. I still think you would need to tweak the armor meshes but that might be easier to do that messing with a new mesh. The whole reason I extracted the above meshes was to use them as dummies to model new armor on top of. 

Of course it would help if we knew which plug in they used to see if we could come up with another method, even if it means just writing one. meh. I got out of IT to stop writing code.

Oh and if anyone want bigger images of the models or different views just PM me.