Modifié par Goodwood, 28 mars 2010 - 10:34 .
Goodwood wrote...
During WWII, the various Allied spec ops communities drilled extensively with knives, particularly the British Commandos and Special Air Service. When operating in occupied countries, being able to take out lone enemies silently was critical, especially for missions such as snatch-and-grabs, supply raids, recon and infiltration, and sabotage.
Such situations could easily come about nowadays and even in the future. Guns tend to make really loud noises when fired, and if you're alone or with only a few others stuck behind enemy lines, being able to do your job swiftly and silently can make all the difference. Sliding a knife between the third and fourth rib is pretty much an instant, silent kill. Silencers aren't as frequent as one may think, y'know.
adam_grif wrote...
As for melee combat, it's a "last option only" thing. They teach it to you because it might come in handy, but it is extremely rare for it to be the deciding factor in anything. The US military has recently been discussing ditching bayonet drills for this reason - it's so rare that it's useful. The old guard are furious that they're even entertaining the idea of course (because they're afraid of change).
adam_grif wrote...
This is MEverse. Your guns will make practically zero noise if you just propell your slugs sub-sonically. I think you're also underestimating how noisy people can be when they're dying, splooging blood all over the place.
Modifié par Goodwood, 28 mars 2010 - 11:23 .
erm... I don't want to tell you off but most likely you're gonna break your leg kicking a Krogan in the back of his knee...Solomen wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
To be fair, what are you going to do to a Krogan?
Personally I'd hit a krogan on the back of the knee and use my shoulder to topple it, then switch to the shotgun and unload on its face while its down.
Modifié par Speakeasy13, 28 mars 2010 - 11:33 .
Aradace wrote...
Solomen wrote...
I keep seeing people post that the military doesn't use melee fighting. Really? I guess all that training with an asp and hand to hand takedown was a figment of my imagination then... I guess my mess kit really can't be used as an improvised weapon... I guess the stock of an M16 doesn't make a very good club in an emergency.
Im ex-infantry so anyone that tells you that we DONT CQC in the military is wrong wrong wrong. Our CQC training consists alot of Juijitsu with grecan roman wrestling. And some basic Judo as well. We are also trained in the fine art of the "E-tool" For those of you that DONT know what an E-tool is, it's basically a shovel that can double as an emergency weapon when needed. Also, we have our trusty M-16's (Or M-4 in my case since M-16 was too big for me lol) and can use them VERY effeciently at close quarters. Some of us also carried a basic knife of some sort on our person. I personally carried mine in a horizontal sheath on the back of my belt.
Sooooooooooooooo, again, ANYONE that says Military doesnt use "melee" tactics of any kind are sorely, SORELY mistaken and obviously have no idea what they're talking about. Solomen, seems to actually get it however
adam_grif wrote...
Goodwood wrote...
During WWII, the various Allied spec ops communities drilled extensively with knives, particularly the British Commandos and Special Air Service. When operating in occupied countries, being able to take out lone enemies silently was critical, especially for missions such as snatch-and-grabs, supply raids, recon and infiltration, and sabotage.
Such situations could easily come about nowadays and even in the future. Guns tend to make really loud noises when fired, and if you're alone or with only a few others stuck behind enemy lines, being able to do your job swiftly and silently can make all the difference. Sliding a knife between the third and fourth rib is pretty much an instant, silent kill. Silencers aren't as frequent as one may think, y'know.
This is MEverse. Your guns will make practically zero noise if you just propell your slugs sub-sonically. I think you're also underestimating how noisy people can be when they're dying, splooging blood all over the place.
Can't really see a subsonic projectile breaking a kinetic barrier. But there could be some space majic for that. But even if melee is completely useless(it never will be) militaries will continue to use it as a way to make soldiers fit and strong and to keep someone who does know how to fight from taking your high tech gun away from you.
Biotic melee sounds like a great idea! I'm not so sure about CQC though, as humans aren't neccessarily a physically strong race amongst the galaxy. You won't be able to do much aginst a Turian or Drell, let alone a Krogan.smudboy wrote...
I discuss CQC and its use over melee weapons:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1917995/1
No one has yet to tell me why we can't have proper "grabs" or submission holds, considering CQC goes through kinetic barriers in the ME universe.
Let alone biotic punches and kicks. This would be perfect for the Vanguard, as well as a biotic charge/grab, whereupon one uses the enemy as cover.
SirThugsAlot wrote...
Grab a knife from your holster and stab it in the enemies chest. Works a lot better than the rifle butt
Speakeasy13 wrote...
erm... I don't want to tell you off but most likely you're gonna break your leg kicking a Krogan in the back of his knee...Solomen wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
To be fair, what are you going to do to a Krogan?
Personally I'd hit a krogan on the back of the knee and use my shoulder to topple it, then switch to the shotgun and unload on its face while its down.
The prefered choice is to stuck a knife in the right way, and you can pull the plate right off a Krogan's head. It's the best way to get a Krogan to talk, the mere threat of it drives them mad.
That's only if you can strike with enough force to even shake one of its legs. It'd be like pulling a buffalo by its tail and expect to drag it along...Solomen wrote...
Speakeasy13 wrote...
erm... I don't want to tell you off but most likely you're gonna break your leg kicking a Krogan in the back of his knee...Solomen wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
To be fair, what are you going to do to a Krogan?
Personally I'd hit a krogan on the back of the knee and use my shoulder to topple it, then switch to the shotgun and unload on its face while its down.
The prefered choice is to stuck a knife in the right way, and you can pull the plate right off a Krogan's head. It's the best way to get a Krogan to talk, the mere threat of it drives them mad.
You do realize krogans are top heavy and a strike to the knee would cause it to lose balance even if it didn't do any damage.
Modifié par Speakeasy13, 28 mars 2010 - 12:45 .
Speakeasy13 wrote...
That's only if you can strike with enough force to even shake one of its legs. It'd be like pulling a buffalo by its tail and expect to drag it along...Solomen wrote...
Speakeasy13 wrote...
erm... I don't want to tell you off but most likely you're gonna break your leg kicking a Krogan in the back of his knee...Solomen wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
To be fair, what are you going to do to a Krogan?
Personally I'd hit a krogan on the back of the knee and use my shoulder to topple it, then switch to the shotgun and unload on its face while its down.
The prefered choice is to stuck a knife in the right way, and you can pull the plate right off a Krogan's head. It's the best way to get a Krogan to talk, the mere threat of it drives them mad.
You do realize krogans are top heavy and a strike to the knee would cause it to lose balance even if it didn't do any damage.
Speakeasy13 wrote...
Biotic melee sounds like a great idea! I'm not so sure about CQC though, as humans aren't neccessarily a physically strong race amongst the galaxy. You won't be able to do much aginst a Turian or Drell, let alone a Krogan.smudboy wrote...
I discuss CQC and its use over melee weapons:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1917995/1
No one has yet to tell me why we can't have proper "grabs" or submission holds, considering CQC goes through kinetic barriers in the ME universe.
Let alone biotic punches and kicks. This would be perfect for the Vanguard, as well as a biotic charge/grab, whereupon one uses the enemy as cover.
Wild Still wrote...
You train in hand to hand combat for mental and physical conditioning. Just like at Sniper school you do puzzles, even though no sniper has ever fired live crosswords at an enemy. Learning hand to hand isn't about bum-rushing the enemy and Kung fu-ing them into submission it's about learning to focus under pressure and physical conditioning. Soldiers only Kung fu in movies, in the real world they call in air strikes and only shoot at each other with rifles if they can't use mechanized forces to avoid it. Soldiers are expensive, they have families that get pensions if they die, commanders don't waste soldiers in melee ranged confrontations.
Plus, let's face it, no game has ever done melee well if it wasn't the whole point of the game, fighting games do it, but RPG and TPS/FPS games, not so much.
Weiser_Cain wrote...
To be fair, what are you going to do to a Krogan?
Last I checked you needed at least one hand to punch someone, too.Kangasniemi wrote...
Some kicks and punches would be ok.
A knife stab, no. The reason is that to stab some one you need at least one hand to do it. So now you stab someone and luckily you manage to kill them with a single stab (that is actually really realle really REALLY hard thing to do). Now you are standing there like and idiot holding a knife in one hand and holding a shotgun in the other, unable to use either of them. Guess what the 5 other enemies are doing during this time? Staring in awe of your 1337 n1njor skillz? OR pumping your sorry ass so much full of lead that your corpse will weigh a metric ton?
Or just grab the guy and put a gun to his head and use him as cover.The absolutely same thing goes for wrestling with an enemy. While you are dry humping your victim on the groud trying to choke him to death, you will once again be shot to death at least 20 times before you get up.
And melee weapons (swords and such) are even more ridiculous thing to suggest.
smudboy wrote...
Last I checked you needed at least one hand to punch someone, too.Kangasniemi wrote...
Some kicks and punches would be ok.
A knife stab, no. The reason is that to stab some one you need at least one hand to do it. So now you stab someone and luckily you manage to kill them with a single stab (that is actually really realle really REALLY hard thing to do). Now you are standing there like and idiot holding a knife in one hand and holding a shotgun in the other, unable to use either of them. Guess what the 5 other enemies are doing during this time? Staring in awe of your 1337 n1njor skillz? OR pumping your sorry ass so much full of lead that your corpse will weigh a metric ton?
Either way, it needs something better than an elbow. Maybe a biotic elbow.Or just grab the guy and put a gun to his head and use him as cover.The absolutely same thing goes for wrestling with an enemy. While you are dry humping your victim on the groud trying to choke him to death, you will once again be shot to death at least 20 times before you get up.
And melee weapons (swords and such) are even more ridiculous thing to suggest.
Better yet, use his body as a shield as you're on the ground with his corpse on top of you. How's that for dry humping?
smudboy wrote...
Last I checked you needed at least one hand to punch someone, too.
smudboy wrote...
Or just grab the guy and put a gun to his head and use him as cover.
Better yet, use his body as a shield as you're on the ground with his corpse on top of you. How's that for dry humping?
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