118 réponses à ce sujet

[B3Chandler]

Shredder Ammo for sure.

[monika26]

I've found AI Hacking to be the most useless power. One just doesn't go up against bots or geth enough to get any real use out of it.Not to mention they have to be without shields/barriers/armor to use it. After a couple playthroughs, I gave up on it and spent my points elsewhere.

[baller7345]

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...

can i just group one category as a whole and call it the worst ability in the game? because thatd be using biotics on higher difficulty settings. biotics are pointless in hardcore and insanity.

pointless.

If by useless you mean Reave and Warp being two of the best powers in the game on Insanity then yes they are "useless".

Shredder ammo, fort, nueral shock are pretty much next to useless on any difficulty.

ach. i forget warp and reave are biotic abilities. debuffs are always going to be good. is there a bad debuff in this game??? i suppose i should clarify singularity is good too along with the debuffs.

but throw, slam, pull, shockwave are all terrible for harder difficulties. whats the point of having a CC ability if you can rarely use it? all CC abilities are pointless on higher difficulties, not just biotics.

crippling slam is awesome. its basically just like bastion stasis. i love it on my infiltrator.

The majority of enemies have more health than any other form of protection so pull throw and singulairty are all great at setting up warp explosions, crowd controlling, or just killing stuff.  Warp is best when you can explode it and the only way to do that is to combine it with other biotics.  Pull throw, and singularity all stop stuff from shooitng at you which is another big plus.  Singularity works on all enimes regardless of protection so that gives it even bigger bonuses.

Biotics aren't useless its just that a lot of people don't figure out how to use them

enemies certainly dont have more health then other forms of protection on higher difficulties. its usually shields/barrier along with health, not to mention elites with armor as well.

biotics arent hard to figure out. there hard to use becasue of enemy protections. with all the protections on higher difficulties, biotics (CC abilities) become pointless.

The average enemy (troopers) take one heavy overload (400 shield damage) and their shields are down.  I've even taken their shields down with a level 3 overload from garrus so that would be less than 400 sheild damage.  The same enemy once down to just health takes 2 heavy warps (400 health damage) to finish off.  I guess they could have an equal amount but since nothing gets bonuses to health it essentially makes them have more health than any other type of protection.

To use biotics in a Crowd Controlling sense (instantly effecting) all you have to do is have one person use an overload the exact time you use a pull or throw and it will have an effect since they will be stripped of their defenses by the time it reaches them.  Or use singularity since it works on everything.  It is extremely easy to strip enemies of their defenses since all stripping powers (warp, overload, incinerate) gain bonuses against certain protections as do guns but nothing gets a bonus to health unless they are using shredder ammo, ap ammo, are frozen, or being pulled, or warp ammo.  Even if you are gaining the bonuses from the ammo's however the other defenses will drop faster since your guns actually do more damage against a certain protection than it would do to straight health (save shredder ammo).

There are multiple threads in whch people have discussed the usefulness of biotics and the general consensus is that throw and pull are just a step below warp and singularity.  Shockwave remains the one that noone has found a concrete useful other than stunning and headshots.

The elites and bosses are exceptions to this but that is because they are supposed to be stronger than your average mook.  It would take a lot of the specialness of these enemies if you could just one shot their defenses like every other enemy.  YMIR mechs are the the only enemy that has about 80% defenses and 20% health but since they are so few it hardly matters.

Modifié par baller7345, 29 mars 2010 - 01:28 .

[lastpawn]

"Shield" spells on Shepard are rather lame. Shredder ammo is also... not good.

[The Spamming Troll part 2]

baller7345 wrote...

The average enemy (troopers) take one heavy overload (400 shield damage) and their shields are down.  I've even taken their shields down with a level 3 overload from garrus so that would be less than 400 sheild damage.  The same enemy once down to just health takes 2 heavy warps (400 health damage) to finish off.  I guess they could have an equal amount but since nothing gets bonuses to health it essentially makes them have more health than any other type of protection.

To use biotics in a Crowd Controlling sense (instantly effecting) all you have to do is have one person use an overload the exact time you use a pull or throw and it will have an effect since they will be stripped of their defenses by the time it reaches them.  Or use singularity since it works on everything.  It is extremely easy to strip enemies of their defenses since all stripping powers (warp, overload, incinerate) gain bonuses against certain protections as do guns but nothing gets a bonus to health unless they are using shredder ammo, ap ammo, are frozen, or being pulled, or warp ammo.  Even if you are gaining the bonuses from the ammo's however the other defenses will drop faster since your guns actually do more damage against a certain protection than it would do to straight health (save shredder ammo).

There are multiple threads in whch people have discussed the usefulness of biotics and the general consensus is that throw and pull are just a step below warp and singularity.  Shockwave remains the one that noone has found a concrete useful other than stunning and headshots.

The elites and bosses are exceptions to this but that is because they are supposed to be stronger than your average mook.  It would take a lot of the specialness of these enemies if you could just one shot their defenses like every other enemy.  YMIR mechs are the the only enemy that has about 80% defenses and 20% health but since they are so few it hardly matters.

so your point is that biotics work awesome when enemies are unprotected???

[Kurupt87]

Yes it is. It takes one CD to strip someone of protection. All weapons are better vs protection than health. All abilities, bar CC only ones, are better vs protection than health. The CC abilities are the only things that are good against just health. (except shredder)

[Razor_Zeng]

WillieStyle wrote...

Most useless powers:
1) Shield Abilities (Fort,Barrier,Geth Shield Boost) - their descriptions should read "prevents you from using a useful power for 12 seconds."

As Geth Shield Boost lasts 60 seconds I find I turn it on before a fight. Then when I start fighting my powers have cooled down so I can start using something else.

Works fine that way.

[baller7345]

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...
so your point is that biotics work awesome when enemies are unprotected???

My point is that the protections aren't enough of a problem to call them useless.  If you want your biotics to work on everything and make you a god which is what Mass Effect 1 gave us then fine the current system isn't for you.  If you want your adept to have any kind of challenge and still be able to lock down rooms after you throw around a couple of defense stripping powers then the current system works fine.  By saying that you think biotic powers are useless just because they don't fling everything willy nilly from the get go means you are saying that abilites such as cryoblast and a.i hacking are useless since they fall in the same boat.  Just because something doesn't immediately effect the enemy doesn't mean it doesn't have uses.  My adept used singularity, throw, and pull more than warp since warp is only useful as a defense stripper unless the enemy is floating into the air.  They may not be as overpowered (imo) as they were in the first game but it by no means makes them useless.

Basically the protections were placed in there as a balancing mechanic and the adept's playstyle has changed from a pure CC class to a class that uses combos of powers to gain control of the battle field.  There are no true crowd control classes due to the reduced radi of the powers but the adept is  still the best at accomplishing any form of crowd control through singulairty and pull field (to a lesser extent throw). 

[The Spamming Troll part 2]

i was being sarcastic.



now im talking higher difficulties only here. CC abilities dont work untill youve brought along a squaddie with debuffs, you have some of your own, or you use a few thermal clips.



CC abilities are pointless on higher difficulties. if you can show me an example of throw, pull, shockwave, cryoblast, ai hacking, dominate, whatever CC ability you like, if you can show me that work on an enemy with protection, then ill agree with you.

[The Spamming Troll part 2]

baller7345 wrote...

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...
so your point is that biotics work awesome when enemies are unprotected???

My point is that the protections aren't enough of a problem to call them useless.  If you want your biotics to work on everything and make you a god which is what Mass Effect 1 gave us then fine the current system isn't for you.  If you want your adept to have any kind of challenge and still be able to lock down rooms after you throw around a couple of defense stripping powers then the current system works fine.  By saying that you think biotic powers are useless just because they don't fling everything willy nilly from the get go means you are saying that abilites such as cryoblast and a.i hacking are useless since they fall in the same boat.  Just because something doesn't immediately effect the enemy doesn't mean it doesn't have uses.  My adept used singularity, throw, and pull more than warp since warp is only useful as a defense stripper unless the enemy is floating into the air.  They may not be as overpowered (imo) as they were in the first game but it by no means makes them useless.

Basically the protections were placed in there as a balancing mechanic and the adept's playstyle has changed from a pure CC class to a class that uses combos of powers to gain control of the battle field.  There are no true crowd control classes due to the reduced radi of the powers but the adept is  still the best at accomplishing any form of crowd control through singulairty and pull field (to a lesser extent throw). 

every ability in this game is situational. shredder ammo works great on casual. biotics work great if you have a debuff. shield boosting abilities work great if your about to die. cc abilities work great on unprotected enemies. theres no wrong answer here. i just find when i play higher difficulties i use my abilites that work only on health very rarely.

the best form of CC isnt singularity, its the combat drone.

[baller7345]

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...
so your point is that biotics work awesome when enemies are unprotected???

My point is that the protections aren't enough of a problem to call them useless.  If you want your biotics to work on everything and make you a god which is what Mass Effect 1 gave us then fine the current system isn't for you.  If you want your adept to have any kind of challenge and still be able to lock down rooms after you throw around a couple of defense stripping powers then the current system works fine.  By saying that you think biotic powers are useless just because they don't fling everything willy nilly from the get go means you are saying that abilites such as cryoblast and a.i hacking are useless since they fall in the same boat.  Just because something doesn't immediately effect the enemy doesn't mean it doesn't have uses.  My adept used singularity, throw, and pull more than warp since warp is only useful as a defense stripper unless the enemy is floating into the air.  They may not be as overpowered (imo) as they were in the first game but it by no means makes them useless.

Basically the protections were placed in there as a balancing mechanic and the adept's playstyle has changed from a pure CC class to a class that uses combos of powers to gain control of the battle field.  There are no true crowd control classes due to the reduced radi of the powers but the adept is  still the best at accomplishing any form of crowd control through singulairty and pull field (to a lesser extent throw). 

every ability in this game is situational. shredder ammo works great on casual. biotics work great if you have a debuff. shield boosting abilities work great if your about to die. cc abilities work great on unprotected enemies. theres no wrong answer here. i just find when i play higher difficulties i use my abilites that work only on health very rarely.

the best form of CC isnt singularity, its the combat drone.

Ok i guess the combat drone is interchangable with singularity in best CC.  I said that singularity is the best simply because it can catch more than 1 enemy.  I love the combat drone but when I'm able to hold 6-8 husks in one singularity I begin to waver towards the singularity.  I guess YMIR mechs make the combat drone just as good though.

I think this really comes down to play style since I use cryo freeze, pull, and throw a lot and you and others don't.  Neither is right or wrong it is just a different way to play the game.  Sorry if I came across a bit angry, I've seen way to many people that simply come on here and bash a certain class which gets on my nerves.

[The Spamming Troll part 2]

why do people think shockwave sucks? it takes out multiple enemies. i just started a vanguard and its workin great along with pull. its kindof a funny ability too. enemies just got thrown everywhere.

[ODST Steve]

Worst power has to be Neural Shock or Fortification. I really hope the flash bang grenade coming out doesn't suck it sounds much like Neural Shock in a grenade form.

[RamsenC]

Whoever thinks pull isn't any good hasn't been setting up warp explosions.

[Darqion]

Im starting to wonder if these people commenting on biotics on insanity actually played on insanity :/ Getting a guy down to health isnt as much insta death as it might be on normal. You have to pop out of cover to hit him 1-2-3-4 more times, and on insanity popping out of cover can be plain nasty.



Instead you could pop out for .5 second, pull his ass and explode him. Or slam him a couple of times for good laugh Throw, or more specifically area trow on small areas with ledges can be very nasty with a AOE defense stripper. Ive cleared 4 guys at once in 2 seconds, just overloading them and area trow to all kick them off a bridge



Anyway I never got around to using neural shock, and shredder ammo... But i dont see the point in them either. theres simply better options for my playstyle

[Heart Collector]

I've never used neural shock, I prefer Dominate on my engineer to complement hacking (though neural shock may be better in an RP sense), and I haven't found shredder ammo particularly useful on insanity.

[OniGanon]

Gotta shake my head at those badmouthing Neural Shock, Cryo Blast and AI Hack. Guys, these are by far some of the best 1pts ever spent.



1pt Cryo Blast is fantastic on pretty much anything but especially enemies with regen and/or high health. It's also one of the best squadmate powers when it's maxed on Mordin because the cooldown inexplicably drops to Shepard's level.



Neural Shock instantly disables an undefended organic for 5 seconds, usually forcing them to stand in place for the first few seconds (making them a clear target for squadmates and sniper headshots). Its cooldown is 3 seconds. It also instant-kills Husks. Here let me say that again... 1pt, 5s duration, 3s cooldown. If you were feeling cruel, you could easily stunlock 2 enemies forever.



AI Hack at 1 point is practically an IWIN button against synthetics. It's duration is just shy of its cooldown. Alone, a hacked synthetic will stand there like an idiot for 5 seconds while you punch it to death. In a group, a hacked synthetic will draw the fire of almost every enemy in the room, practically sentencing it to death (if it's a weaker one) and allowing you a few seconds free of fire to strip the defenses of another synthetic and do it over again. FENRIR coming at you? Hack stops it in its tracks. Husks? Equip your pistol and blam! Shock! Blam! Shock! Hack a Geth Destroyer, Hunter or Rocket Trooper and things become hilarious! Two YMIRs? Strip the defenses of one asap and then Hack. Shoot the second one for a bit, then Hack the first one again. Laugh maniacally as you leisurely kill two YMIRs with barely a shot fired at you while Harkin watches on in horror. Synthetics aren't in every battle but they certainly show up enough that 1pt of AI Hack will more than pay for itself.



The greatest strength of these abilities: they cost 1pt! To get this kind of utility in other abilities usually requires 6 or 10! This gives you the points to spend in other abilities like... Squad Cryo.



As for Slam... Well you can give it to a Sentinel and spend 1pt so you can set up Warp explosions. With 1pt Slam and your own Warp, as well as a second Warper and a Puller, you can make two Warplosions in very quick succession. It can also be useful for crowd control for classes lacking in it, with its super-quick cooldown and ability to affect both organics and synthetics. Although I'd probably prefer to just get 1pt Neural Shock.

[Aradace]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Charge, that really shouldn't have been a power at all...







...instead, it should have been the most basic way of movement for every class.

I hope you arent talking about Biotic Charge.....Because Biotic Charge kicks ass...In fact, it kicks so much ass that you're probably going to go blind

[Gravbh]

The Spamming Troll part 2 wrote...

i was being sarcastic.

now im talking higher difficulties only here. CC abilities dont work untill youve brought along a squaddie with debuffs, you have some of your own, or you use a few thermal clips.

CC abilities are pointless on higher difficulties. if you can show me an example of throw, pull, shockwave, cryoblast, ai hacking, dominate, whatever CC ability you like, if you can show me that work on an enemy with protection, then ill agree with you.

You do realize that adepts are also allowed to shoot stuff to bring down defenses and they can have teammates strip defenses as well right...
Biotics are far from useless on insanity. Just because you can't make them work doesn't mean others have the same trouble. There are plenty of videos and threads about using biotics on insanity. You can find them, much easier than me telling you how many ways you're wrong

[lazuli]

Charge. Let me clarify.



Charge, riddled with bugs, on Insanity, on an Xbox 360.

[Heart Collector]

OniGanon wrote...


1pt Cryo Blast is fantastic on pretty much anything but especially enemies with regen and/or high health. It's also one of the best squadmate powers when it's maxed on Mordin because the cooldown inexplicably drops to Shepard's level.

Neural Shock instantly disables an undefended organic for 5 seconds, usually forcing them to stand in place for the first few seconds (making them a clear target for squadmates and sniper headshots). Its cooldown is 3 seconds. It also instant-kills Husks. Here let me say that again... 1pt, 5s duration, 3s cooldown. If you were feeling cruel, you could easily stunlock 2 enemies forever.

AI Hack at 1 point is practically an IWIN button against synthetics. It's duration is just shy of its cooldown. Alone, a hacked synthetic will stand there like an idiot for 5 seconds while you punch it to death. In a group, a hacked synthetic will draw the fire of almost every enemy in the room, practically sentencing it to death (if it's a weaker one) and allowing you a few seconds free of fire to strip the defenses of another synthetic and do it over again. FENRIR coming at you? Hack stops it in its tracks. Husks? Equip your pistol and blam! Shock! Blam! Shock! Hack a Geth Destroyer, Hunter or Rocket Trooper and things become hilarious! Two YMIRs? Strip the defenses of one asap and then Hack. Shoot the second one for a bit, then Hack the first one again. Laugh maniacally as you leisurely kill two YMIRs with barely a shot fired at you while Harkin watches on in horror. Synthetics aren't in every battle but they certainly show up enough that 1pt of AI Hack will more than pay for itself.

The greatest strength of these abilities: they cost 1pt! To get this kind of utility in other abilities usually requires 6 or 10! This gives you the points to spend in other abilities like... Squad Cryo.

I agree about cryo blast and ai hack... But as I said before, I prefer dominate over neural shock:happy:
It may have a far smaller cooldown to dominate, but you can really wreak havok by turning an enemy against his own (as you know with ai hacking).
Neural shock will put one unprotected enemy out of combat, but dominate will essentially get a lot more hostile fire off you and your squad. I can't count how many times it's saved me in the collector missions!
So essentially you get more bang for your buck with dominate, even if you have a tech class (you will probably get biotic duration and cooldown upgrades anyway).

[ODST Steve]

lazuli wrote...

Charge. Let me clarify.

Charge, riddled with bugs, on Insanity, on an Xbox 360.

I know exactly what you are saying. The bugs are so bad on console I had to stop playing my favorite class.

[OniGanon]

Admittedly, I haven't really played around with Dominate yet. Will get to it on my Engineer playthrough. If it's the same as AI Hack I can see it being really good.

But Neural Shock's shorter cooldown does allow less interruption in the use of your main ability (eg Adrenaline Rush, Cloak), so it's not a clear cut choice.

Modifié par OniGanon, 29 mars 2010 - 02:42 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

OniGanon wrote...

Admittedly, I haven't really played around with Dominate yet. Will get to it on my Engineer playthrough. If it's the same as AI Hack I can see it being really good.

But Neural Shock's shorter cooldown does allow less interruption in the use of your main ability (eg Adrenaline Rush, Cloak), so it's not a clear cut choice.

Dominate is just AI Hack for organics just with 1 nice improvment it gives them Barrier instead of Shields so it also turns them into a walking bomb

[schneaks]

I must be the only person thinking Shredder Ammo isn't completely useless.  On Shepard, sure, there are better choices, but I use it on Thane quite a bit to make him pack more of a punch. 

On Insanity, I find shields/armor/barrier very easy to strip, but health last longer.  This is especially true if I am a more support or power-based class.  Thane has great weapon scaling with his passives, and with shredder ammo is usually able to one-shot someone after I strip their defenses.

Personally I find Dominate to be the most useless, but Reave is the power I use the least for balance reasons.