46 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

So. We know that there is trouble in the Bannorn, something that Eamon is insistant that Alistair (or your choice of ruler) attend to immediately. The kingdom is still rebuilding after the blight, and alliegence of the nobles who had ties to Howe or Loghain is tenuous.

I find myself wondering about the decidedly downbeat ending of Awakening. Outside of gameplay considerations of giving those who wanted 'darker' something to sink their teeth into, what plot function might this serve?

The wardens don't come out of this in a position of strength. You have a few more wardens, sure, but the keep, and it's soldiers are decimated if it survives at all. Many in the Arling lost their lives, and Amarantine is either heavily damaged or a total loss. Rebuilding is possible, but it's going to take time. There are bound to be factions who disapprove ot the Warden Commander's actions as even the best case scenario isn't very good, except that the darkspawn have been defeated again--for now.

Fereldan would seem to be a bit of a mess, perhaps a big mess depending on what the trouble is that called Alistair (or other ruler) away. I forsee a political morass, ill will amongst factions, and perhaps an invasion. It's a terrific time for an invasion what with the army being weakened by the battle against the darkspawn and the nation recently divided by civil war. There will be grudges that impede the king (or other ruler) from consolidating power.

Hmmm.... I wonder how this all ties together?

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 05:46 .

[Godak]

What worries me is that this all seems to be a reason for us to return to Ferelden in future games. As of right now, I'm a wee bit eager for a change of scenery...

[sylvanaerie]

War with the Orlesians? Now would be the perfect time for them to try to strike against Ferelden again seeing as its in pretty bad state of affairs. Frankly if my Warden PC finished her story with Awakenings I wouldn't care. Starting a new non warden PC and dealing with something besides darkspawn would be interesting. To tell the truth kind of tired of Darkspawn. After killing the AD and stopping a freaking blight...umm yea Architect and mother are a huge let down. And battling Orlesians may make me finally have some sympathy for Loghain.



Or not taking place in Ferelden would be nice too. I've long wanted to visit Orlais or Antiva or the Anderfels in the game.

[Layn]

i would love an expansion that is more about political intrigue (even if politics totally bore me in real life) and conspiracies and I want civil war to break out eventually and Orlesians taking that opportunity to invade and TOTAL WAR

wait, wrong game. anyway, i'd love a game about stabilising the country and all of the above

edit: and sudden unexpected Qunari invasion! at the height of the war against Orlais!

Modifié par Crrash, 28 mars 2010 - 05:58 .

[errant_knight]

There are way too many dangling plot ends to just abandon the larger story that's in play, I think. I would find it extremely disappointing if it were. Also that my warden's story ended on such a depressing note and alienating circumstances. Dealing with the loose ends doesn't preclude travel, either. For example, if the Qunari were to invade, what would be more logical than for Alistair (or other ruler's representative) to travel to Orleis to attempt to complete the negotiations that Cailan started? Or to strike directly against whoever might be invading in their own country? I think we're probably done with darkspawn for a while, except residual pockets of activity unless there's an attempt to retake the deep roads, specifically to reconnect Kal Sharok and Orzammar in a meaningful way.

Another plot element has just occurred to me. We know that the wardens of Weisshaupt were paying close attention to what we did in Amaranthine. And that they don't see things quite the way the rest of the wardens do. What we don't know is what they actually think of the wardens of Fereldan, and their future plans for the order there.

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 06:04 .

[sylvanaerie]

errant_knight wrote...

There are way too many dangling plot ends to just abandon the larger story that's in play, I think. I would find it extremely disappointing if it were. Dealing with them doesn't preclude travel, either. For example, if the Qunari were to invade, what would be more logical than for Alistair (or other ruler's representative) to travel to Orleis to attempt to complete the negotiations that Cailan started? Or to strike directly against whoever might be invading in their own country? I think we're probably done with darkspawn for a while, except residual pockets of activity unless there's an attempt to retake the deep roads, specifically to reconnect Kal Sharok and Orzammar in a meaningful way.

*Shudders* if they do that in the Deep Roads I think I will pass on that expansion/sequel. Putting my head in the car door and slamming it a few times would be more fun than doing another Deep Roads dungeon crawl. 

And yea not abandon all plot lines but really I feel with the PC getting stronger and stronger in the expansion (and not everyone who might get the next thing will have gotten Awakenings) it would be better to start over new.  Of course that ending epilogue with the PC warden just vanishing could be a set up for an interesting "amnesia" storyline.

But yea I am so done with Darkspawn

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

There are way too many dangling plot ends to just abandon the larger story that's in play, I think. I would find it extremely disappointing if it were. Dealing with them doesn't preclude travel, either. For example, if the Qunari were to invade, what would be more logical than for Alistair (or other ruler's representative) to travel to Orleis to attempt to complete the negotiations that Cailan started? Or to strike directly against whoever might be invading in their own country? I think we're probably done with darkspawn for a while, except residual pockets of activity unless there's an attempt to retake the deep roads, specifically to reconnect Kal Sharok and Orzammar in a meaningful way.

*Shudders* if they do that in the Deep Roads I think I will pass on that expansion/sequel. Putting my head in the car door and slamming it a few times would be more fun than doing another Deep Roads dungeon crawl. 

And yea not abandon all plot lines but really I feel with the PC getting stronger and stronger in the expansion (and not everyone who might get the next thing will have gotten Awakenings) it would be better to start over new.  Of course that ending epilogue with the PC warden just vanishing could be a set up for an interesting "amnesia" storyline.

But yea I am so done with Darkspawn

They can't keep levelling up as they did in Awakening, that much is certain. I'd rather just not level anymore at all. That wouldn't bother me a bit, but I know it would bother many. I think the best alternative is to go back to a lower level and trust the gamers to understand the necessity. Most will. They don't have to go back to level one, after all. Starting at the equivalent of level six or seven wouldn't be horribly onerous.

[Godak]

errant_knight wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

There are way too many dangling plot ends to just abandon the larger story that's in play, I think. I would find it extremely disappointing if it were. Dealing with them doesn't preclude travel, either. For example, if the Qunari were to invade, what would be more logical than for Alistair (or other ruler's representative) to travel to Orleis to attempt to complete the negotiations that Cailan started? Or to strike directly against whoever might be invading in their own country? I think we're probably done with darkspawn for a while, except residual pockets of activity unless there's an attempt to retake the deep roads, specifically to reconnect Kal Sharok and Orzammar in a meaningful way.

*Shudders* if they do that in the Deep Roads I think I will pass on that expansion/sequel. Putting my head in the car door and slamming it a few times would be more fun than doing another Deep Roads dungeon crawl. 

And yea not abandon all plot lines but really I feel with the PC getting stronger and stronger in the expansion (and not everyone who might get the next thing will have gotten Awakenings) it would be better to start over new.  Of course that ending epilogue with the PC warden just vanishing could be a set up for an interesting "amnesia" storyline.

But yea I am so done with Darkspawn

They can't keep levelling up as they did in Awakening, that much is certain. I'd rather just not level anymore at all. That wouldn't bother me a bit, but I know it would bother many. I think the best alternative is to go back to a lower level and trust the gamers to understand the necessity. Most will. They don't have to go back to level one, after all. Starting at the equivalent of level six or seven wouldn't be horribly onerous.

For a sequel, it would most certainly be better to start back at level one. If you choose to import a character (if the option is even available) you might gain a few extra points to spend, but that should be it, IMO.

[sylvanaerie]

hmm instead of a Sequel...how bout a Prequel. Set it 30 years ago and meet guys like Loghain back when he was a human being and Maric and maybe Duncan right round the time of his Joining. We could take place in the battles to free Ferelden from Orlais (Okay hung up with Orlais, what can i say).

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

hmm instead of a Sequel...how bout a Prequel. Set it 30 years ago and meet guys like Loghain back when he was a human being and Maric and maybe Duncan right round the time of his Joining. We could take place in the battles to free Ferelden from Orlais (Okay hung up with Orlais, what can i say).

Well, much as the deep roads hold no interest for you, I'm afraid a prequel holds no interest for me. To me, books seem a better vehicle for that. I have to admit that prequels rarely hold much interest for me, though. I never quite see the point in leaving characters that matter a great deal to me to pursue those about whom I already have strong negative opinions.

It seems to me that we'll be coming back to this time period again, certainly for DLC and at least one more expansion, and possibly for DA2. Otherwise, I think more of these loose ends would be tied up. You don't keep saying that the warden's story isn't over if it is.

I think a lot of the pieces that they put into play with Awakening have interesting ramifications, whatever issues I may have had with the expansion itself. If we were done with Fereldan, I don't think matters would have been left in such total flux.

Sidenote: There are quite a few threads on whether the warden should continue to be a factor, and where the next expansion should take place. Let's try and keep this one to discussing the state of affairs in Fereldan and how that might play into game elements taking place after Awakening.

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 07:31 .

[Godak]

errant_knight wrote...

Sidenote: There are quite a few threads on whether the warden should continue to be a factor, and where the next expansion should take place. Let's try and keep this one to discussing the state of affairs in Fereldan and how that might play into game elements taking place after Awakening.

It might seem a bit paradoxical to you, but you cannot discuss the state of affairs in Ferelden without talking about the state of affairs in other countries. It is a country newly liberated, it beat back a Blight all on its own, and will probably be taking up an important role in world diplomacy. Ferelden's soldiers have experience dealing with darkspawn, and the Grey Warden's own an entire Arling. It is likely that, should another nation face darkspawn related issues, Ferelden will probably be a strong supplier of manpower.

[JBC4733]

Godak wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Sidenote: There are quite a few threads on whether the warden should continue to be a factor, and where the next expansion should take place. Let's try and keep this one to discussing the state of affairs in Fereldan and how that might play into game elements taking place after Awakening.

It might seem a bit paradoxical to you, but you cannot discuss the state of affairs in Ferelden without talking about the state of affairs in other countries. It is a country newly liberated, it beat back a Blight all on its own, and will probably be taking up an important role in world diplomacy. Ferelden's soldiers have experience dealing with darkspawn, and the Grey Warden's own an entire Arling. It is likely that, should another nation face darkspawn related issues, Ferelden will probably be a strong supplier of manpower.

You don't think that BioWare would rehash the Blight or darkspawn issues, do you? I wouldn't mind, personally, but I know that a lot of people would.

It's just somewhat difficult to predict what will happen next, exactly. The epilogue, depending on the choices you made during the game, stated that the Warden's journey was not over. Many signs point toward them, but Grey Wardens don't really dabble in political affairs, unless they have some other motive, whatever that would be. Then, there's the whole Morrigan/Flemeth/godbaby thing, which I guess the Warden could take a personal interest in, but discussing that at this point just seems annoyingly redundant.

[Godak]

JBC4733 wrote...

You don't think that BioWare would rehash the Blight or darkspawn issues, do you? I wouldn't mind, personally, but I know that a lot of people would.

Unfortunately...yes. I think they would.

JBC4733 wrote...

Many signs point toward them, but Grey Wardens don't really dabble in political affairs, unless they have some other motive, whatever that would be.

*Points to the Anderfels*

[sylvanaerie]

Ya but we saw what happened to Sophia and crew when they stuck their noses in politics. Frankly deciding on Orzammars king and Ferelden's king/queen was difficult enough for me. I don't want a political thing. I just know I really don't want any more darkspawn (aside from the occasional battle) anymore.

[Thor Rand Al]

errant_knight wrote...
Another plot element has just occurred to me. We know that the wardens of Weisshaupt were paying close attention to what we did in Amaranthine. And that they don't see things quite the way the rest of the wardens do. What we don't know is what they actually think of the wardens of Fereldan, and their future plans for the order there.

This, there's obviously something going on between the Wardens.  And our PC's like you said were being watched very carefully.  There was talk about holding titles for Wardens and how we dealt with Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep might play out in the future.  What is it that Daveth says? "This is all to secretive, makes my nose itch."  I know probably not exact lol, sorry.

Anyways ya I see something happening in the ranks of the Wardens, what that could be is a good guess but I'd definitely like to get my teeth into it with a game.

[errant_knight]

JBC4733 wrote...

Godak wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Sidenote: There are quite a few threads on whether the warden should continue to be a factor, and where the next expansion should take place. Let's try and keep this one to discussing the state of affairs in Fereldan and how that might play into game elements taking place after Awakening.

It might seem a bit paradoxical to you, but you cannot discuss the state of affairs in Ferelden without talking about the state of affairs in other countries. It is a country newly liberated, it beat back a Blight all on its own, and will probably be taking up an important role in world diplomacy. Ferelden's soldiers have experience dealing with darkspawn, and the Grey Warden's own an entire Arling. It is likely that, should another nation face darkspawn related issues, Ferelden will probably be a strong supplier of manpower.

You don't think that BioWare would rehash the Blight or darkspawn issues, do you? I wouldn't mind, personally, but I know that a lot of people would.

It's just somewhat difficult to predict what will happen next, exactly. The epilogue, depending on the choices you made during the game, stated that the Warden's journey was not over. Many signs point toward them, but Grey Wardens don't really dabble in political affairs, unless they have some other motive, whatever that would be. Then, there's the whole Morrigan/Flemeth/godbaby thing, which I guess the Warden could take a personal interest in, but discussing that at this point just seems annoyingly redundant.

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule as to what wardens will or won't do, although preserving an appearance of neutrality suits their purposes, and it rather depends on the wardens involved, I think. The wardens of the Anderfels interfere, as did Sophia Dryden. In many playthroughs, two wardens dethroned a usurper and restored a bloodline. In some, although not mine , a warden had the last known heir of the Calenhad line executed. It's pretty hard to argue that grey wardens don't interfere.

I don't think future plotlines will be entirely free of the darkspawn. The blight was too recent for that. There will be raids out of the deep road, and stragglers. The countries of Thedas will be newly reminded of the dangers, and perhaps have new respect for Fereldan. I don't think we'll see another blight, but it's existance and repercussions of the taint will probably continue.

The wardens will be receiving renewed attention, and some of it may be to their detriment. There will be political fallout from Cailan's death. There may be changes in the relationship with the Qunari. There may be interference from Weisshaupt.There are just too many cards in play for politics, both national and international, not to have some bearing on what happens next.

Lots of potential plotlines have been pointed out, and many seem like good possibilities. I think the ending of Awakening will probably play in somehow as that kind of 'barely a win' ending just isn't all that normal in any kind of media, unless it's setting the stage for the next installment.

Thor Rand Al wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Another plot element has just occurred to me. We know that the wardens of Weisshaupt were paying close attention to what we did in Amaranthine. And that they don't see things quite the way the rest of the wardens do. What we don't know is what they actually think of the wardens of Fereldan, and their future plans for the order there.

This, there's obviously something going on between the Wardens.  And our PC's like you said were being watched very carefully.  There was talk about holding titles for Wardens and how we dealt with Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep might play out in the future.  What is it that Daveth says? "This is all to secretive, makes my nose itch."  I know probably not exact lol, sorry.

Anyways ya I see something happening in the ranks of the Wardens, what that could be is a good guess but I'd definitely like to get my teeth into it with a game.

Heh, it makes my nose itch, too. I find the possibilities there to be very interesting! And they've been hinting at issues with Weisshaupt from day one.

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 09:30 .

[blademaster7]

If there was ever a good time for the Grey Wardens to dabble with politics, it's now. Ferelden could become the new Anderfels.

I would love to see that actually. With you stepping down from your post as the  Warden-Commander(and disappearing for the face of the earth) others may see an opportunity to use your accomplishments as an excuse to take over Ferelden.

The Grey Wardens are heroes now. They are the legendary order that protects humanity from the darkspawn and everyone should  respect them. With no darkspawn to occupy them, I doubt they'll just sit there and wait till they die from the taint.

Fame and glory just drives people crazy sometimes. The Grey Wardens may become a power-hungry organization, and no one can stop them.

But that's just me letting my imagination loose. Carry on.

Modifié par blademaster7, 28 mars 2010 - 09:33 .

[errant_knight]

blademaster7 wrote...

If there was ever a good time for the Grey Wardens to dabble with politics, it's now. Ferelden could become the new Anderfels.

I would love to see that actually. With you stepping down from your post as the  Warden-Commander(and disappearing for the face of the earth) others may see an opportunity to use your accomplishments as an excuse to take over Ferelden.

The Grey Wardens are heroes now. They are the legendary order that protects humanity from the darkspawn and everyone should  respect them. With no darkspawn to occupy them, I doubt they'll just sit there and wait till they die from the taint.

Fame and glory just drives people crazy sometimes. The Grey Wardens may become a power-hungry organization, and no one can stop them.

But that's just me letting my imagination loose. Carry on.

Lol! Your megalomaniac is showing....

The epilogues say that the PC disappears, not that they never reappear. It's also interesting that in some Awakening epilogues, Alistair disappears, too, while in some he doesn't. I'm wondering if it ties in with the Origins epilogues where Alistair is called to Weisshaupt and vows to return, although we aren't told if, when, or how he does so.

Hmmm.... I'm starting to wonder if the next expansion might not begin with the PC being taken to Weisshaupt against his/her will, and possibly with Alistair. Perhaps there will be an accounting for the dark ritual, if it occured.

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 10:24 .

[sylvanaerie]

Which would bring Morrigan back into the picture (even peripherally). My problem with it is what do they do IF they continue this for explaining those who didn't get the expansion? And Maker's breath my Cousland girl ran out of slots on my PC monitor to put her skills on.

Alistair didn't go to Weishauppt in my playthrough when i made just Anora queen.  He went to highever to honor Duncan but that was it.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 28 mars 2010 - 09:47 .

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Which would bring Morrigan back into the picture (even peripherally). My problem with it is what do they do IF they continue this for explaining those who didn't get the expansion? And Maker's breath my Cousland girl ran out of slots on my PC monitor to put her skills on.

Alistair didn't go to Weisshaupt in my playthrough when i made just Anora queen.  He went to Highever to honor Duncan but that was it.

They can make Awakening canon without getting into specific choices, I think. Or use conversation flags to establish what was done. No matter what you do in Awakening, there are plenty of reasons for tham to think you did poorly. It was just that kind of game. *Sigh*

The dark ritual is actually more problematic in terms of plot.

[I don't remember much about the epilogue where I made Anora queen. It was my first playthrough, and there were enough things I didn't like about it that I deleated it. Notably, my PC looked like a doofus. Making Anora queen really stuck in my craw, too. Hearing a Therin forswear the throne on behalf of his heirs was just so wrong for me.... In any case, both Alistair and I stayed wardens, and I don't remember anything else about it. I don't think I've had it since I started hardening Alistair, but that's the subject of another thread. ]

[Godak]

You know what could interesting? The Grey Wardens from Weisshaupt making a political power play. Those particular Wardens seem far less interested in dealing with the blights, and far more interested in expanding their sphere of influence. It would be quite a switch if, all of a sudden, the Grey Wardens were the bad guys.

[Thor Rand Al]

Godak wrote...

You know what could interesting? The Grey Wardens from Weisshaupt making a political power play. Those particular Wardens seem far less interested in dealing with the blights, and far more interested in expanding their sphere of influence. It would be quite a switch if, all of a sudden, the Grey Wardens were the bad guys.

That would be were your Origin's character comes into play.  They are either with the Weisshaupt Wardens (who would of course be the bad guys) or against (be the good guy).  Definitely make more sense with an already played Warden then a new 1 because the old 1 already has a feel for the whole Warden thing and politics, (ok so I don't want to give up my character yet lmao).  It could be interesting to see something like that happen.

[Layn]

HK74 wrote...

I don't think it is problematic. It either happened in your playthrough or it didn't - in the latter case, who is to say that Morrigan didn't convince Riordan to drop it in her unbeknownst to the PC?

the archdemon dies, you die. proof right there that morrigan didn't get an old god child

[Janni-in-VA]

Also, Morrigan tells you that Riordan has been tainted too long for him to be a suitable father for that child. It has to be someone who has been tainted for a much shorter period of time, meaning your male PC, Alistair or Loghain.

Something I saw in another thread strikes me as a possibility for a new expansion.  Of course, the canon for the expansion would have to be that a Warden helped Morrigan with the Dark Ritual.  Morrigan's plan was to preserve the soul of an old god.  What if she then uses the information or power available from that child to find the two remaining old gods and awaken them, untainted.  This would put paid to any further blights, although dealing with the remaining darkspawn would still be necessary.  You'd also have to deal with two very powerful, ancient high dragons.  Obviously, this wouldn't interest everyone, but I find the idea intriguing nonetheless.

Personally, I get the expansion packs for any game I like.  I did for Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, TES:III Morrowind and TES:IV Oblivion.  I'll do the same thing if I find a series of books I like.  I only quit buying the books if I get bored with the series.

Modifié par Janni-in-VA, 28 mars 2010 - 11:12 .