46 réponses à ce sujet

[urvashi]

HK74 wrote...

Crrash wrote...

HK74 wrote...

I don't think it is problematic. It either happened in your playthrough or it didn't - in the latter case, who is to say that Morrigan didn't convince Riordan to drop it in her unbeknownst to the PC?

the archdemon dies, you die. proof right there that morrigan didn't get an old god child

If you die and you don't import your dead character, there's nothing to explain is there? That seems like a small loophole but an important one. If you do import a dead character then isn't that a bit lore-breaking in itself? If you start a new character... maybe your other warden had a convenient brain aneurism as s/he plunged the sword into the Archdemon's head? I don't have all the answers! Damn you.

If you refuse to do the dark ritual,  Alistair or Loghain can take the final blow and die rather than your warden.

[errant_knight]

HK74 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

The dark ritual is actually more problematic in terms of plot.

I don't think it is problematic. It either happened in your playthrough or it didn't - in the latter case, who is to say that Morrigan didn't convince Riordan to drop it in her unbeknownst to the PC?

My point was that you can't base a plot on Weisshaupt diapproval of the dark ritual when it didn't occur in some playthroughs. If you're going to create a situation where the PC and allies have a problem with Weisshaupt, then there have to be enough potential problems with them that there would still be an issue if the dark ritual wasn't done. So it's only problematic in that the plot can't hinge on it. Awakening seems to have given enough material for it to be possible now.

Janni-in-VA wrote...

Also, Morrigan tells you that Riordan has been tainted too long for him to be a suitable father for that child. It has to be someone who has been tainted for a much shorter period of time, meaning your male PC, Alistair or Loghain.

Something I saw in another thread strikes me as a possibility for a new expansion.  Of course, the canon for the expansion would have to be that a Warden helped Morrigan with the Dark Ritual.  Morrigan's plan was to preserve the soul of an old god.  What if she then uses the information or power available from that child to find the two remaining old gods and awaken them, untainted.  This would put paid to any further blights, although dealing with the remaining darkspawn would still be necessary.  You'd also have to deal with two very powerful, ancient high dragons.  Obviously, this wouldn't interest everyone, but I find the idea intriguing nonetheless. [...]

It will make a huge difference if they choose canon, or continue to leave it open. The more open it is, the less likely we are to see past characters, or have our choices persist. The more events occur, the more that would mean building a game that grows exponentially with each expansion, both in content, and potentially unused voice acting. They seem to be cutting way back on voice acting and cutscenes anyway, which removes a lot of what drew me to DA, sadly, so that's not likely. Money would appear to be an issue of some kind.

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 11:26 .

[Star]

sylvanaerie wrote...

*Shudders* if they do that in the Deep Roads I think I will pass on that expansion/sequel. Putting my head in the car door and slamming it a few times would be more fun than doing another Deep Roads dungeon crawl. 

 

No kidding!  I'm pretty tired of this and darkspawn.  Although given that the whole means of becoming a GW or to become a GW is darkspawn, it makes it harder to get out of the idea of a darkspawn attack I suppose.

Modifié par Star58, 28 mars 2010 - 11:21 .

[Volourn]

" find myself wondering about the decidedly downbeat ending of Awakening."



Hmm. I found the ending uplifting more than anything. Both the keep and city were saved. All my companions left though a couple 'vanished' afterwards.



P.S. More Deep Roads please. The Underdark is always fun.

[JBC4733]

Godak wrote...

*Points to the Anderfels* ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

True. I guess, being the PC and all, is made more interesting by deviating a bit from the poltical neutrality... especially if BioWare decides to make the involvement personal (ie, Morrigan).

errant_knight wrote...

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule as to what wardens will or won't do, although preserving an appearance of neutrality suits their purposes, and it rather depends on the wardens involved, I think. The wardens of the Anderfels interfere, as did Sophia Dryden. In many playthroughs, two wardens dethroned a usurper and restored a bloodline. In some, although not mine , a warden had the last known heir of the Calenhad line executed. It's pretty hard to argue that grey wardens don't interfere.

I don't think future plotlines will be entirely free of the darkspawn. The blight was too recent for that. There will be raids out of the deep road, and stragglers. The countries of Thedas will be newly reminded of the dangers, and perhaps have new respect for Fereldan. I don't think we'll see another blight, but it's existance and repercussions of the taint will probably continue.

The wardens will be receiving renewed attention, and some of it may be to their detriment. There will be political fallout from Cailan's death. There may be changes in the relationship with the Qunari. There may be interference from Weisshaupt.There are just too many cards in play for politics, both national and international, not to have some bearing on what happens next.

Lots of potential plotlines have been pointed out, and many seem like good possibilities. I think the ending of Awakening will probably play in somehow as that kind of 'barely a win' ending just isn't all that normal in any kind of media, unless it's setting the stage for the next installment.

Point taken. You, being the PC, will most likely be more politically involved, now that I think about it. The only argument to that would be that several of those decisions were made due to the pressing times of the Blight, but still, you make a good point. Man, I really need to actually read up more on the lore of the games. You read David Gaider's books (or the codices), I'm assuming?

And yeah, the plot was left too far open for the Warden's journey to be over, in my opinion. Killing the Mother and just walking away doesn't suffice as a final ending when it just fades to the epilogue and says, "Oh yeah, by the way, you randomly went MIA."

[errant_knight]

JBC4733 wrote...

Godak wrote...

*Points to the Anderfels* ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

True. I guess, being the PC and all, is made more interesting by deviating a bit from the poltical neutrality... especially if BioWare decides to make the involvement personal (ie, Morrigan).

errant_knight wrote...

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule as to what wardens will or won't do, although preserving an appearance of neutrality suits their purposes, and it rather depends on the wardens involved, I think. The wardens of the Anderfels interfere, as did Sophia Dryden. In many playthroughs, two wardens dethroned a usurper and restored a bloodline. In some, although not mine , a warden had the last known heir of the Calenhad line executed. It's pretty hard to argue that grey wardens don't interfere.

I don't think future plotlines will be entirely free of the darkspawn. The blight was too recent for that. There will be raids out of the deep road, and stragglers. The countries of Thedas will be newly reminded of the dangers, and perhaps have new respect for Fereldan. I don't think we'll see another blight, but it's existance and repercussions of the taint will probably continue.

The wardens will be receiving renewed attention, and some of it may be to their detriment. There will be political fallout from Cailan's death. There may be changes in the relationship with the Qunari. There may be interference from Weisshaupt.There are just too many cards in play for politics, both national and international, not to have some bearing on what happens next.

Lots of potential plotlines have been pointed out, and many seem like good possibilities. I think the ending of Awakening will probably play in somehow as that kind of 'barely a win' ending just isn't all that normal in any kind of media, unless it's setting the stage for the next installment.

Point taken. You, being the PC, will most likely be more politically involved, now that I think about it. The only argument to that would be that several of those decisions were made due to the pressing times of the Blight, but still, you make a good point. Man, I really need to actually read up more on the lore of the games. You read David Gaider's books (or the codices), I'm assuming?

And yeah, the plot was left too far open for the Warden's journey to be over, in my opinion. Killing the Mother and just walking away doesn't suffice as a final ending when it just fades to the epilogue and says, "Oh yeah, by the way, you randomly went MIA."

Just the codices. I've found most, but not all, of those. Heh, and that ending didn't suffice even without the bit about going missing! We're just twisting in the wind right about now.

[errant_knight]

Just a reminder, not based on any one response, folks.... There are other threads that primarily focus on what we want to see. This one is about what possibilities may be indicated by the game and expansion, and evidence we see for those possibilities..

Modifié par errant_knight, 28 mars 2010 - 11:44 .

[sylvanaerie]

lol on that I will just read and maybe make an occasional response then. I am not good with prediction/speculation

[errant_knight]

I forgot another element that may come into play.... The Libertarian mage's attempts to leave the circle. I don't see that going anywhere good.

[Stoomkal]

errant_knight wrote...

There are way too many dangling plot ends to just abandon the larger story that's in play, I think. I would find it extremely disappointing if it were. Also that my warden's story ended on such a depressing note and alienating circumstances. Dealing with the loose ends doesn't preclude travel, either. For example, if the Qunari were to invade, what would be more logical than for Alistair (or other ruler's representative) to travel to Orleis to attempt to complete the negotiations that Cailan started? Or to strike directly against whoever might be invading in their own country? I think we're probably done with darkspawn for a while, except residual pockets of activity unless there's an attempt to retake the deep roads, specifically to reconnect Kal Sharok and Orzammar in a meaningful way.

Another plot element has just occurred to me. We know that the wardens of Weisshaupt were paying close attention to what we did in Amaranthine. And that they don't see things quite the way the rest of the wardens do. What we don't know is what they actually think of the wardens of Fereldan, and their future plans for the order there.

...

I like the main plot of Awakening very much, and disliked other parts of it intensely. I do not have a problem with the MIA ending, even though it is a very detached way to end a game.

For me, Awakening seems very much like a "side quest" that happens to have alot of relevance to the continuing story - it is almost a prelude to something bigger...

Origins was very self contained, whereas Awakening seems almost lost without some further resolution to the plot. Although, the MIA ending may be what they leave things with if it gets to complicated. I see the story as a build to a future project, even if it does not involve the Warden.

I also would very much like a Dark Ritual story, and it does not have to be problematic. As someone said, it could very well have happened with Riordan, and be "retconned" into the plot...

Also... do not worry about the level cap. I have heard you say this before. Do not stress about the numbers. The Warden could go up to level 50 easily and still maintain plenty of consistent challenges. The Baldurs Gate series went very high, and also, there is never an intimation that the player has in any way "gone epic". S/He is just a high level character, but not godly in anyway.

High level Templars and Wizards still exist - in some ways it was silly that you could kill very tough demons at such a low level in Origins. I can see Irving or Greagoir as level 40, easily. The Warden should at least be one of the higher level heroes in the kingdom. Numbers also do not make power level as much as the story does, and the Warden does not really fly or shoot bolts from their eyes... yet!

Also... I don't wanna leave my Warden yet... there are still things I haven't finished up... 

[sylvanaerie]

Maybe i am just not as attached or else Awakenings really burned me out. Frankly I am having more fun playing through Origins again (this time on a Dalish rogue). I haven't even looked at or felt like picking up Awakenings or my Cousland girl's story again. Maybe by the time the next expansion/sequel comes out I will but not right now. I even have zero desire to play another avatar through Awakenings.

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Maybe i am just not as attached or else Awakenings really burned me out. Frankly I am having more fun playing through Origins again (this time on a Dalish rogue). I haven't even looked at or felt like picking up Awakenings or my Cousland girl's story again. Maybe by the time the next expansion/sequel comes out I will but not right now. I even have zero desire to play another avatar through Awakenings.

Actually I got that feeling too. I played Awakenings once and haven't bothered again.  It never really felt half as engrossing as origins to me.

[Stoomkal]

I agree with both of you...



I enjoyed the main plot quite alot, but without the character interaction, and with the sparsity of explanation or dialogue, it feels *utterly* inferior.



I have no confidence in Ferret A Baudoin to manage another sequel, from both a plotting and story perspective, and a programming one.

[errant_knight]

Stoomkal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

There are way too many dangling plot ends to just abandon the larger story that's in play, I think. I would find it extremely disappointing if it were. Also that my warden's story ended on such a depressing note and alienating circumstances. Dealing with the loose ends doesn't preclude travel, either. For example, if the Qunari were to invade, what would be more logical than for Alistair (or other ruler's representative) to travel to Orleis to attempt to complete the negotiations that Cailan started? Or to strike directly against whoever might be invading in their own country? I think we're probably done with darkspawn for a while, except residual pockets of activity unless there's an attempt to retake the deep roads, specifically to reconnect Kal Sharok and Orzammar in a meaningful way.

Another plot element has just occurred to me. We know that the wardens of Weisshaupt were paying close attention to what we did in Amaranthine. And that they don't see things quite the way the rest of the wardens do. What we don't know is what they actually think of the wardens of Fereldan, and their future plans for the order there.

...

I like the main plot of Awakening very much, and disliked other parts of it intensely. I do not have a problem with the MIA ending, even though it is a very detached way to end a game.

For me, Awakening seems very much like a "side quest" that happens to have alot of relevance to the continuing story - it is almost a prelude to something bigger...

Origins was very self contained, whereas Awakening seems almost lost without some further resolution to the plot. Although, the MIA ending may be what they leave things with if it gets to complicated. I see the story as a build to a future project, even if it does not involve the Warden.

I also would very much like a Dark Ritual story, and it does not have to be problematic. As someone said, it could very well have happened with Riordan, and be "retconned" into the plot...

Also... do not worry about the level cap. I have heard you say this before. Do not stress about the numbers. The Warden could go up to level 50 easily and still maintain plenty of consistent challenges. The Baldurs Gate series went very high, and also, there is never an intimation that the player has in any way "gone epic". S/He is just a high level character, but not godly in anyway.

High level Templars and Wizards still exist - in some ways it was silly that you could kill very tough demons at such a low level in Origins. I can see Irving or Greagoir as level 40, easily. The Warden should at least be one of the higher level heroes in the kingdom. Numbers also do not make power level as much as the story does, and the Warden does not really fly or shoot bolts from their eyes... yet!

Also... I don't wanna leave my Warden yet... there are still things I haven't finished up... 

The level thing only seems like a problem to me because my PC was so much more powerful than the other party members. She didn't even break a sweat until major boss battles. It was weird. I think part of the problem there was being able to bring our gear. If I do a second playthrough, I'm just going to bring very basic stuff--no buffs.

I wouldn't like to see the plot retconned onto poor Riordan. He's dead and can't defend himself, besides it not being possible given the advanced state of his taint. And the dark ritual is ever so much more interesting when performed by the PC or forced on Alistair.

I'd like to see the dark ritual as part of a plot, but I'm not seeing any foreshadowing of it right now, unless it has to do with Weisshaupt.

I agree about Awakening not being self contained. It did feel a bit like an introduction.

Modifié par errant_knight, 29 mars 2010 - 12:42 .

[sylvanaerie]

Stoomkal wrote...

I agree with both of you...

I enjoyed the main plot quite alot, but without the character interaction, and with the sparsity of explanation or dialogue, it feels *utterly* inferior.

I have no confidence in Ferret A Baudoin to manage another sequel, from both a plotting and story perspective, and a programming one.

Poor Stoom.  I feel bad you couldn't finish that quest you kept trying to trigger.

[Zaros]

I'm not sure what you did, but in my ending a charity for blight orphans was opened up, a charity was funded for Vigil's keep by the arling of Ameranthine, and I actually manged to get a darkspawn to become a benevolent traveler and help out hundreds of people on his travels (at the risk of spreading a bit of taint here and there). Granted, there are a bunch of darker, open-ended questions that need to be answered, but it wasn't nearly as grim as you make it sound.

[errant_knight]

Zaros wrote...

I'm not sure what you did, but in my ending a charity for blight orphans was opened up, a charity was funded for Vigil's keep by the arling of Ameranthine, and I actually manged to get a darkspawn to become a benevolent traveler and help out hundreds of people on his travels (at the risk of spreading a bit of taint here and there). Granted, there are a bunch of darker, open-ended questions that need to be answered, but it wasn't nearly as grim as you make it sound.

I got the same, but I found the victories to be so small and tainted as to be completely unsatisfying to me. But...that's not why we're here. We're talking about future storylines for the next expansion that would seem to be foreshadowed by events in Awakening, and to a lesser extent, Origins.

[sylvanaerie]

I was okay with my ending (except for the disappearing Warden act at the end). David Copperfield eat your heart out. I just didn't feel like going back to it. For me Origins is much more fulfilling a game to play.

[errant_knight]

*Headdesk*

[sylvanaerie]

What about the Seeker? Even if the PC kills Architect do you think his disciple will pick up where he left off?

[errant_knight]

I have a feeling that there won't be much on the Architect, or his plans, in the near future. I was actually pretty surprised that he could be killed. That kind of hints that the plotline may be finished, I think. I expected more, really.
On the other hand, Alistair could be killed, and there was no finish to the Therin line, necessarily, not unless it has to do with the lack of an heir. If it features, I think it may be more about who or what the Architect was, rather than any continuation of his plans. I think we've probably seen the end of intelligent darkspawn for now.

There aren't any noticable loose ends, in any case. Well, a few, but not giant ones.

Modifié par errant_knight, 29 mars 2010 - 02:03 .