85 réponses à ce sujet

[Beaker_1]

Stalky24 wrote...

Nikatjef wrote...

Greetings,

I hear a lot of people commenting that they think the ease is attributable to the balancing of the expansion for the Orlesian. While I think there might be some truth to this, I think the issue is even bigger / deeper. I think this because I have played the Orlesian warden on hard solo and found the game to be almost as easy as when I played my level 25 AW Mage.

No, it appears to me that someone screwed up on a GDA file somewhere and dropped basic skills / abilities / talents from the mobs. For example, the first Genlock archers you run into in DA:A have the same issues that the first Genlock archers had when you ran into them in DA:O, they are easily interruptible, which means they were not given the combat skills or basic archer skills.

Caster mobs had the same issue, which meant that for the first 30ish % of the game I was able to keep the caster mobs from hitting me with chain lightning or the big AOE's simply by running up and whacking them once.

yes this surprised me too. No resistances, basic skills, I think youve got a point there.

Perhaps a mod to add these in? I think there should be at least 3x the number of enemies WITH these skills too, then it might be at least worth being present while the game is running

[Beaker_1]

kasanza wrote...

Well, why not solo NightMare next? If it's still too easy, impose upon your character self-applied handicaps to keep interesting. When you solo, you will die a time or two if your not a Keeper, because of all the enemies with Overwhelm. Even as a Keeper, Some WhereWolves got the drop on me and did me in. It was quite embarassing after killing Bosses with ease.

If i used that same idea with my shield class, all I need is shield wall and maybe the new inincibility one with the fade one (I never learned their names) you can kill anything, never die and never get knocked down... on your own. You don't need a team for that. That's the problem I have with it. Every class is becoming solo-able.

If there was a greater number of enemies you might reach critical moments where you run out of your abilities and then struggle as several enemies start hacking away at you, but you kill everything before your in trouble.

Modifié par Beaker_1, 30 mars 2010 - 06:20 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

@Beaker_1: I dont think numbers alone will make a difference.

Weak enemys wont A: hit you and B: overcome your Damage Reduction

Plus: Your AoE talents/spells will tear them apart.



It would be better to mix up Elite enemys; lets say: 2 Emissarys, 2 Snipers, 1 Disciple, 1 armored Ogre, XX white



This would remind me of the several battles in BG2, were you would fight oter adventurer groups!

[Nikatjef]

kasanza wrote...
Well, why not solo NightMare next? If it's still too easy, impose upon your character self-applied handicaps to keep interesting.

   Actually I do this alot.  I try not to use the same "trick" more than one game, but I tend to use the same trick the whole way through the game to see if it get's better / worse.  For example on one of my recent play throughs, I was almost completely immune to being overwhelmed due to the repulsion field spell.  I will not be using that spell again in DA:A due to how overpowering it was the way I used it...  SOC / Force Field / bard stun song was another combo I will never use again, especially after the havoc it wreaked while fighting the insane BM.

[Dark Lilith]

the combat should have been more difficult

[Nikatjef]

Beaker_1 wrote...
You don't need a team for that. That's the problem I have with it. Every class is becoming solo-able.

   Actually this happens even in DA:O once you get to a cetain level skill set.  Unfortunately, DA:A makes this even worse by providing augmenting skills / abilities / talents.

If there was a greater number of enemies you might reach critical moments where you run out of your abilities and then struggle as several enemies start hacking away at you, but you kill everything before your in trouble.

   Yes and no.  Running up to the final battles in DA:O, you actually get to test this theory out, and what you find out is that no, it is not necessarily the quantity of the mobs and not necessarily the quality of the mobs, instead it is a combination of those two and simple tactics that can add challenge.  For example think about how difficult an encounter would be if you had a healer mob that actually healed it's allies, a tanking mob that actually shielded it's healer and archer mobs that actually attacked from stealth / cover.

[darkshadow136]

yes overall awakenings was to easy, and not enough immersion like in DAO.

[tmp7704]

Nikatjef wrote...

No, it appears to me that someone screwed up on a GDA file somewhere and dropped basic skills / abilities / talents from the mobs. For example, the first Genlock archers you run into in DA:A have the same issues that the first Genlock archers had when you ran into them in DA:O, they are easily interruptible, which means they were not given the combat skills or basic archer skills.

Caster mobs had the same issue, which meant that for the first 30ish % of the game I was able to keep the caster mobs from hitting me with chain lightning or the big AOE's simply by running up and whacking them once.

I think this is more the result of large part of mobs you encounter actually being level 13-15 critter rank enemies. This includes most of the darkspawn. I.e. it's debatable that's a screwup with a file, but rather appears to be conscious decision to keep the difficulty low, for whatever reason. Since i doubt mistake of this calibre could be overlooked all way to the game release.

[Murphys_Law]

Nikatjef wrote...

Beaker_1 wrote...
You don't need a team for that. That's the problem I have with it. Every class is becoming solo-able.

   Actually this happens even in DA:O once you get to a cetain level skill set.  Unfortunately, DA:A makes this even worse by providing augmenting skills / abilities / talents.

If there was a greater number of enemies you might reach critical moments where you run out of your abilities and then struggle as several enemies start hacking away at you, but you kill everything before your in trouble.

   Yes and no.  Running up to the final battles in DA:O, you actually get to test this theory out, and what you find out is that no, it is not necessarily the quantity of the mobs and not necessarily the quality of the mobs, instead it is a combination of those two and simple tactics that can add challenge.  For example think about how difficult an encounter would be if you had a healer mob that actually healed it's allies, a tanking mob that actually shielded it's healer and archer mobs that actually attacked from stealth / cover.

DA:O disappointed me in that regard, I was hoping for more balance between quality/quanity.  Felt like through most of the game they just threw darkspawn at me to hack through with little thought on what types they were.  And as someone mentioned before BG adventure group battles were amazing, yet we see zero in DA:O.  I can't help but think they are catering to the lowest common denominator, as that seems to be the trend in gaming now a days.  The sad part is its not like even the "traditional" hard games are that hard they just require some thought and adjusting of strategies.  Unfortunetly, it seems most people are too busy crying/ranting to even think that maybe their strategy is wrong or needs adjustment.  I see it time and time again no matter what game I play, people just cannot seem to control themselves and thus think about ways to improve their playstyle.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Most people play it on easy mode you play it on hard or normal mode and you have solved your problem you have to calulate who to bring what there behaviors are and what spells they cast. Trust me it gets hard i played it with My arcane warrior alistar leliana and wynne you really have to think about how you play when you up the difficulty.

[Beaker_1]

 

Murphys_Law wrote...

DA:O disappointed me in that regard, I was hoping for more balance between quality/quanity.  Felt like through most of the game they just threw darkspawn at me to hack through with little thought on what types they were.  And as someone mentioned before BG adventure group battles were amazing, yet we see zero in DA:O.  I can't help but think they are catering to the lowest common denominator, as that seems to be the trend in gaming now a days.  The sad part is its not like even the "traditional" hard games are that hard they just require some thought and adjusting of strategies.  Unfortunetly, it seems most people are too busy crying/ranting to even think that maybe their strategy is wrong or needs adjustment.  I see it time and time again no matter what game I play, people just cannot seem to control themselves and thus think about ways to improve their playstyle.

Agreed completely! Make games have a harder top end skill level. If the lowest common denominator cant handle it, they shouldn't be playing it that hard! Simple!

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Most people play it on easy mode you play it on hard or normal mode and you have solved your problem you have to calulate who to bring what there behaviors are and what spells they cast. Trust me it gets hard i played it with My arcane warrior alistar leliana and wynne you really have to think about how you play when you up the difficulty.

I think most people play it on Nightmare, it's still a cakewalk!


To the other stuff about making it harder.... Yeah more enemies might not make it harder necessarily, but at least when you kill say 50 darkspawn in a fight, you can sit n think... That was pretty badass!!!

However yes, they still need to be stronger, like I said, add the other skills and increase enemy count. Maybe increase HP too.

[Nikatjef]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...
Trust me it gets hard i played it with My arcane warrior alistar leliana and wynne you really have to think about how you play when you up the difficulty.

   I played a similar set up, except that instead of AW, I was a shape shifter, this was before I learned how badly done the SS was, and overall the game was no more difficult for me on hard than when I played my 'Arcane Estregen' team. 

   If you are not familiar with that setup it is PC Mage (AW/SS), Morrigan (SS/AW), Wynne (SH/AW), and Leilianna (BA/RA).  To make matters worse, I did the tower right after Lothering, so I had this group for all of Redcliffe, Bresilin, Ostagar, Denerim, Honleth, Soldier's Peak, and Orzymar.  Leilianna was the tank, and the mages were all in heavy armor wielding sword & board.  You will notice that I gimped myself a great deal.

   Just as a comparisson in DA:A, I took my Mage (AW/SS), Anders (SH/AW), Velanna (KE/AW), and Nathaniel (AS/BA).  In DA:O, I had to use lots of mana pots and health pots, versus DA:A where I used no health pots and maybe 5 - 10 mana pots.

[Nikatjef]

tmp7704 wrote...
I think this is more the result of large part of mobs you encounter actually being level 13-15 critter rank enemies. This includes most of the darkspawn. I.e. it's debatable that's a screwup with a file, but rather appears to be conscious decision to keep the difficulty low, for whatever reason.

   I would agree, if the game had been significantly harder when I played the Orlesian.  Afterall on one of my play throughs I started at level 25 whereas the Orlesian is only 18, but comparitively speaking it was not all that much harder for the Orlesian than it was for my level 25.

Since i doubt mistake of this calibre could be overlooked all way to the game release.

   You mean like the Power of Blood abilities showing up on the character sheet but not working, or the tattoo's saying legacy tattoo, or elemental runes not giving damage modifiers, or the Silverite mines not spawning the 4th experiment randomly.  Actually, compared to those examples, a GDA file is very easy to overlook during testing of an expansion, because you are doing basic regression testing while spending the bulk of your test cycle on the new features.

[cynicalsaint1]

I think the problem is you seem to fight less enemies at once overall.

I rarely end up getting swarmed with enemies the way I would in Origins.



Which is too bad, because of all the really nice AoE abilities added for Rogue and Warrior, I rarely found myself really needing to use them.

[Andari_Surana]

The mechanics of awakening and origins are largely beyond repair.



If i'll be around for DA2 will depend greatly upon whether Bioware admits they goofed,

and will be addressing mechanics and more challenging game play in their sequel.

[Nikatjef]

Andari_Surana wrote...
The mechanics of awakening and origins are largely beyond repair.

   Personally, I don't believe this to be the case.  I say this because of modules like Combat Tweaks.  If you use CT with the difficulty patch, you get a much more challenging game that does not appear to break the idea / desgin of DA.

   Additionally, I have been playing with the toolset to test my theory and I have managed to create a small group of 5 white mobs that provides a decent level of challenge.  There are two genlock archers whom I have converted to snipers (added a few archery talents and converted them to rogues), a genlock emissary (converted them from using balanced caster to a modified defensive caster) who buffs the others before you engage then heals the others, a tank who uses sword & board to attempt to defend the emissary (required a bit of scripting), and a rogue that attempts to get behind the player.

[dbkkk]

Andari_Surana wrote...

The mechanics of awakening and origins are largely beyond repair.

If i'll be around for DA2 will depend greatly upon whether Bioware admits they goofed,
and will be addressing mechanics and more challenging game play in their sequel.

If you are on the PC the mechanics in Origins are fixed if you use the right gameplay mod. If you don't believe me read the bug fix list for Combat Tweaks some time, you will see that there are numerous bugsa that even 95% of the social bioware community has no idea exist.

But alas for Awakenings I agree, it is broken and unlike Origins there appears to be no recourse ((

Edit:

Sorry Nikatjef, I just saw your post after I submitted.

I totally agree with your statement. But you do admit that without CT, combat mechanics in Origins was very dysfunctional. A lot of the increased challenge with CT is not just the optional difficulty tweaks but also the fact that stuff actually works for both the player AND the enemy mobs.

But it is still deplorablei mho that Bioware never fixed any of these things in Origins and that it took someone dedicated like Kend to fix them in  a mod. Now Bioware moves ahead and pushes Awakening onto us with a pre-release patch (v1.03) that added even more bugs for many people.

Modifié par dbkkk, 31 mars 2010 - 12:45 .

[daudleikr]

I use combat tweaks and nightmare plus, and it's still a cakewalk.

I really want to bring my companions because I want to experience the RP, but I end up making them halt somewhere far away while I go kill the enemies by myself.

Maybe I should set Anders to wanding and make Sigrun and Oghren fire a crappy bow. Or make them not attack at all.





Origins was actually difficult on Nightmare; I even died a couple of times, and chugged potions like there was no tomorrow.



It's pretty frustrating, and boring, that combats are so damn easy on Nightmare. Even with mods.

The rogue abilities are crazy overpowered, and the mobs don't have the same abilities at all.

[tmp7704]

Nikatjef wrote...

I would agree, if the game had been significantly harder when I played the Orlesian.  Afterall on one of my play throughs I started at level 25 whereas the Orlesian is only 18, but comparitively speaking it was not all that much harder for the Orlesian than it was for my level 25.

I brought that up mainly in the context of the mobs missing the mid- and high-end abilities -- that, i believe, is a result of them being not very high level themselves, rather than a mistake in their script.

[Manatel]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

It would be better to mix up Elite enemys; lets say: 2 Emissarys, 2 Snipers, 1 Disciple, 1 armored Ogre, XX white

This would remind me of the several battles in BG2, were you would fight oter adventurer groups!

Yes, exactly!
Some of the most rememberable battles from the BG series were against groups with 4-6 enemies.


I'm so tired of fighting scores of darkspawn that you just have to ... kill, without thinking. The worst part is that you don't care about darkspawn after a while, they just don't scare you. I remember running into battles the first time I played BG2 and having to pause the game to take a deep breath and thinking 'oh damn how do I deal with this'.

[Sarevok Anchev]

@Manatel: Just think o the hidden Warehouse in the Temple District!

When you get iand 2 Mages welcome you, but teleport away.

Then you walk on and get attacked by a badass mob od demons!

And when you aterwards go up the stairs, you have to fight a Minotaur, a Half-Ogre, a Warrior,

a Priest, a Mage and a Thief, who uses the "Wrath of the Gods" Katana.

And when you are a noob, you dont know o the Traps, that surround you!

That was awesome! Een without big dialog and background story ^^

[Sidney]

Manatel wrote...


I'm so tired of fighting scores of darkspawn that you just have to ... kill, without thinking. The worst part is that you don't care about darkspawn after a while, they just don't scare you. I remember running into battles the first time I played BG2 and having to pause the game to take a deep breath and thinking 'oh damn how do I deal with this'.

This isn't BG2, this is like Throne of Bhaal. The only "thoughts" in ToB was is it breech or pierce magic to rip down protection spell X because I never memorized that rock, paper scissors magic system. Other than that is was pretty much a no brainer to kill everything.

DAA plays almost exactly like ToB because in both games I was basically on auto-pilot with my near god character. I just don't think anyone has found the right way, and there may not be a way given all the failures, to make high levels interesting w/o basically nerfing the monsters so that nothing you normally do really works.

[DarkGreystone]

try playing solo.... no back up

[KigenBarzhad]

I can say that I started the game as an Orelsian Warden and up difficulty to hard, still found the game quite easy. I didn't not even use armor runes or anything too fancy on this play-through.

[KigenBarzhad]

edit: oops I doubled.

Modifié par KigenBarzhad, 31 mars 2010 - 11:06 .