85 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Beaker_1 wrote...

Stalky24 wrote...

Nikatjef wrote...

Greetings,

I hear a lot of people commenting that they think the ease is attributable to the balancing of the expansion for the Orlesian. While I think there might be some truth to this, I think the issue is even bigger / deeper. I think this because I have played the Orlesian warden on hard solo and found the game to be almost as easy as when I played my level 25 AW Mage.

No, it appears to me that someone screwed up on a GDA file somewhere and dropped basic skills / abilities / talents from the mobs. For example, the first Genlock archers you run into in DA:A have the same issues that the first Genlock archers had when you ran into them in DA:O, they are easily interruptible, which means they were not given the combat skills or basic archer skills.

Caster mobs had the same issue, which meant that for the first 30ish % of the game I was able to keep the caster mobs from hitting me with chain lightning or the big AOE's simply by running up and whacking them once.

yes this surprised me too. No resistances, basic skills, I think youve got a point there.

Perhaps a mod to add these in?

Or an official Patch.   I remember back when it was still the company's job to fix the broken stuff in their own games.

As crazy as that may sound.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 31 mars 2010 - 11:47 .

[dbkkk]

Yrkoon wrote...

Beaker_1 wrote...

Stalky24 wrote...

Nikatjef wrote...

Greetings,

I hear a lot of people commenting that they think the ease is attributable to the balancing of the expansion for the Orlesian. While I think there might be some truth to this, I think the issue is even bigger / deeper. I think this because I have played the Orlesian warden on hard solo and found the game to be almost as easy as when I played my level 25 AW Mage.

No, it appears to me that someone screwed up on a GDA file somewhere and dropped basic skills / abilities / talents from the mobs. For example, the first Genlock archers you run into in DA:A have the same issues that the first Genlock archers had when you ran into them in DA:O, they are easily interruptible, which means they were not given the combat skills or basic archer skills.

Caster mobs had the same issue, which meant that for the first 30ish % of the game I was able to keep the caster mobs from hitting me with chain lightning or the big AOE's simply by running up and whacking them once.

yes this surprised me too. No resistances, basic skills, I think youve got a point there.

Perhaps a mod to add these in?

Or an official Patch.   I remember back when it was still the company's job to fix the broken stuff in their own games.

As crazy as that may sound.

You aren't crazy.

But there a ton of combat mechnics bugs that Bioware never fixed in DA Origins (and likely never will). If you play on a PC and use one of the excellent gameplay mods then DAO becomes the game it "should" have been at release (or soon thereafter), otherwise you will be waiting for something that will never happen.

[Nikatjef]

dbkkk wrote...
But there a ton of combat mechnics bugs that Bioware never fixed in DA Origins (and likely never will).

   Again, I have to hope you are wrong about this, but I am afraid you are not.

   One of the things that strikes me as odd when I do look through the code is how often Bioware breaks their own BKM's.  For example, when you look at something as simple as the module_core, you find that instead of creating a custom module_core for the OC, they customized the core's module_core.  This means that they have to override it for each and every expansion / extension they do.  From there, instead of adding the Awakening skills / abilities / talents to the core, they added them as overrides in Awakening, which means they will have to be re-created for any future expansion / extensions.

   The toolset offers such great potential, but their decisions to violate their own BKM's just means their technology debt will get deeper, more complex and less agile as they go along.

[Varenus Luckmann]

I haven't even gotten to Awakening, yet, and I can already say that it's too easy.

It's always too easy.

[dbkkk]

Nikatjef wrote...

dbkkk wrote...
But there a ton of combat mechnics bugs that Bioware never fixed in DA Origins (and likely never will).

   Again, I have to hope you are wrong about this, but I am afraid you are not.

   One of the things that strikes me as odd when I do look through the code is how often Bioware breaks their own BKM's.  For example, when you look at something as simple as the module_core, you find that instead of creating a custom module_core for the OC, they customized the core's module_core.  This means that they have to override it for each and every expansion / extension they do.  From there, instead of adding the Awakening skills / abilities / talents to the core, they added them as overrides in Awakening, which means they will have to be re-created for any future expansion / extensions.

   The toolset offers such great potential, but their decisions to violate their own BKM's just means their technology debt will get deeper, more complex and less agile as they go along.

I agree they built a toolset that actually has a lot of depth and potential to it (witness the Combat Tweaks mod), but Bioware seems to be kind of hamfisted and either breaking it's own setup or not exploiting it to even a fraction of its potential. They have been reluctant at best to issue any changes and things look even more bollixe3d (in terms of combat mechanics) in Awakening.

--------------------

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I haven't even gotten to
Awakening, yet, and I can already say that it's too easy.
It's always
too easy.

DA Origins difficulty is as hard as you want it
to be if you use the right mods. It may be a while though before the same can be said of Awakening (if ever). And of course this is no help to the console community.

[Smaaen90]

Even though I do agree that both Origins and Awakening was a bit too easy (Awakening more-so than Origins), it still posed a challenge from time to time (mostly cause I played through it, making more challenges for me).



But I would like to point out, due to the massive size of Origins, and Awakening (yes, some say it's too small, too short and way too rushed, blabla. I disagree, and if you agree, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the matter). Though, imagine playing Origins on a difficulty level so hard, that you died a couple of times every quest/side quest, add the time it would take going from last save point till where you last died (and hopefully survive this time) and the time the story/dialogues/RP moments offer. The result is a lot, my first save span over a hundred and twenty hours (some people have more even).



One thing is certain, if the difficulty had been harder, 50% harder than Nightmare currently is, it could easily have been one hundred and fifty forty, maybe more. And to me, it is not that far fetched to believe BioWare wanted to keep that essence alive, where-as it might be a little easy for the more hardecore players, the amount of time you can spend on quests/side quests/crafting/exploring gives back for the easy level of difficulty.



That said, I wouldn't mind having another difficulty level, one above Nightmare, but keep in mind all the settings they have to fix in order to balance it on a scale that matches from easy -> nightmare, without it being impossible.



Just my opinon on the matter though.

[dbkkk]

Smaaen90 wrote...

Even though I do agree that both Origins and Awakening was a bit too easy (Awakening more-so than Origins), it still posed a challenge from time to time (mostly cause I played through it, making more challenges for me).

But I would like to point out, due to the massive size of Origins, and Awakening (yes, some say it's too small, too short and way too rushed, blabla. I disagree, and if you agree, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the matter). Though, imagine playing Origins on a difficulty level so hard, that you died a couple of times every quest/side quest, add the time it would take going from last save point till where you last died (and hopefully survive this time) and the time the story/dialogues/RP moments offer. The result is a lot, my first save span over a hundred and twenty hours (some people have more even).

One thing is certain, if the difficulty had been harder, 50% harder than Nightmare currently is, it could easily have been one hundred and fifty forty, maybe more. And to me, it is not that far fetched to believe BioWare wanted to keep that essence alive, where-as it might be a little easy for the more hardecore players, the amount of time you can spend on quests/side quests/crafting/exploring gives back for the easy level of difficulty.

That said, I wouldn't mind having another difficulty level, one above Nightmare, but keep in mind all the settings they have to fix in order to balance it on a scale that matches from easy -> nightmare, without it being impossible.

Just my opinon on the matter though.

You would be surprised at how much more difficult DA Origins can get with the right mods. Way more than "50% harder" than nightmare, though I am not even sure how to assess a percentage. I like to think of 'difficulty'  in terms of pure numbers like 20-30% enemy damage boost, 75% healing received, 6-8x enemy health scales depending on ranks, AIAbilityUseModifier = 2, creature caps removed for hurlocks and genlocks, and the almighty fscale close to two. Throw in area-scaling up to level 20 (starts to break for some reason if set above 21 in the end game) plus fixes for the broken mechanics and you have one heckuva challenge with lots of capacity for dying.

But you might also be surprised to learn that even if it is rough at the start (try to doing some of the origins at that these settings), as long as your skills and talents are FIXED and working correctly, that you can handle a lot once you adapt. Of course fixing the broken mechanics means your enemies also have their abilities work better / more efficiently as well. Yes there are multiple settings involved but it doesn't require Bioware to get them right. If you want to learn more and try it for itself you can check out mods like Combat Tweaks.

But if you play vanilla DA Origins, let alone Awakening with insta-gib Peon's Plight (single), Massacre (AOE), and numerous OP spells, it will never be difficult unless you play under weird class or gear restrictions. Heck there is a mod out there to play Origins vanilla at level one for as long as possible (i.e. no level up ever) and you would be amazed how far some people make it even with the DAO challenge scaling. On the otehr hand if you use the right gameplay mods and use the right settings you will have a hard time getting out of level 1 in some of the origin stories. It all depends what people want. I just wish there were as many choices available to Awakening as there are for Origins (well for PC gamers I should stipulate ... sorry consoles you get the shaft again ) 

[Smaaen90]

Well, dbkkk, to answer shortly (as I'm gonna get some shuteye): I don't use mods, maybe in a couple of months I'll try out with some of the best mods, but I don't enjoy changing how the game was released by the creators of it. No matter how good the people who make the mods are, it's not the same.



That being said, I was speaking without modding it, cause as you said, modding makes it either way too frickin' easy, or way too hard, compared to with no mods.

[Weeload]

Was too easy on Nightmare. Didn't die with my main once.

[Manatel]

Sidney wrote...

This isn't BG2, this is like Throne of Bhaal. The only "thoughts" in ToB was is it breech or pierce magic to rip down protection spell X because I never memorized that rock, paper scissors magic system. Other than that is was pretty much a no brainer to kill everything.

DAA plays almost exactly like ToB because in both games I was basically on auto-pilot with my near god character. I just don't think anyone has found the right way, and there may not be a way given all the failures, to make high levels interesting w/o basically nerfing the monsters so that nothing you normally do really works.

True.

But my main point was that I prefer battles to be scaled by making each individual enemy tougher, not by just adding enemies.

Somehow the threat of the darkspawn doesn't seem so real when you can easily kill groups that outnumber you 5 to 1 

[Yrkoon]

I'm one of those  players who thought Origin's combat difficulty was 'just right'.  The normal fights were easy once you got the combat mechanics down... while the bigger/elite/boss fights were a challenge that required a revised strategy, and perhaps some party micromanaging.


But Awakening.... forget about it.  It was easier than easy.  I don't recall having to use a single healing pot, injury kit or  any curative whatsoever.  At no point in the game do I remember being in trouble.

Really unfortunate, because it takes  some of the luster away from all the cool new skills and talents

[tomas819]

A few *nice* things about the overall easiness is that I can ...

(1) ignore all of the crafting stuff -- since it's completely unnecessary,

(2) not bother with the armor and weapon runes (did anyone else find the rune-crafting to be more trouble than it was worth?), and

(3) allow my characters to go helmet-less and  wear whatever armor looked good on them (why this game STILL doesn't have a "Hide Helmets" option is a total mystery to me).

Just saying....

Still, I very much agree that the game should have offered some more challenging play options.

Modifié par tomas819, 01 avril 2010 - 01:24 .

[Nikatjef]

Smaaen90 wrote...
Well, dbkkk, to answer shortly (as I'm gonna get some shuteye): I don't use mods, maybe in a couple of months I'll try out with some of the best mods, but I don't enjoy changing how the game was released by the creators of it. No matter how good the people who make the mods are, it's not the same.

   When you are ready to use mods Try Combat Tweaks, Bring a Friend, and Advanced Tactics.  The author of CT has focused a great deal on fixing what is broke while trying to keep the fidelity of the orignal game.  As such it feels very much like the un-modded game, just a bit more balanced.  And for me it actually improved my immersion into the game.

   I would be lying if I said that the author didn't take a few liberties with CT, but where he has taken them it actually improved the overall feel for me as well.  When you then throw in the 'Bring a friend' mod and Advanced Tactics, the game just becomes a whole lot more enjoyable.

   I should point out I am not a twitch player, or a FPS player, or a min/max'er.  Instead I like to play games that make me think, as such I played DA:O twice before using them.  When I put those modules on, the game was just as challenging for me the third time (on normal) as it was the first time (on normal), and my fourth and fifth playthroughs (both on hard) were even harder still, but still just as exiting and the feeling of accomplishment was just as strong.

[Yrkoon]

^just for clarification, does CT work in awakenings?

[daudleikr]

Hey guys! I died!!

One of the experiment subjects of The Architect shocked me and my two companions while the genlocks/hurlocks hacked away at them. I got away with so little HP I could barely see it (I thought I was dead). I used Endure Hardship, but the damn experiment subject put a crushing prison on me. And as it wore off, I was running to him and he got me right before I could put a hit in.



I died!! Woooh!

[daudleikr]

Yrkoon wrote...

^just for clarification, does CT work in awakenings?

Yes. But it's still too easy.


I tried making my companions useless by making them wand/auto attack with a lousy weapon (bow or such), but they got aggro and died.
I really want to bring them with me because I love their conversations.

[Nikatjef]

Yrkoon wrote...
^just for clarification, does CT work in awakenings?

   Yes and no.  Yes, CT works for the pieces of core code that were not changed by DA:A and the 1.03 patch, but since the code is not available in the toolset yet for DA:A and 1.03, it has not been updated yet.  Sadly this means that some of the balancing features from CT got overwritten and broke again.  Cone Of Cold is a perfect example of this.  CT had it so that CoC was more resistable, but 1.03 patched it back to near super power levels.   And to make matters even worse, Bioware added Hand Of Winter which appears to use the same broken resistence checks so it is nearly un-resistable.

[Smaaen90]

Nikatjef wrote...

Smaaen90 wrote...
Well, dbkkk, to answer shortly (as I'm gonna get some shuteye): I don't use mods, maybe in a couple of months I'll try out with some of the best mods, but I don't enjoy changing how the game was released by the creators of it. No matter how good the people who make the mods are, it's not the same.

   When you are ready to use mods Try Combat Tweaks, Bring a Friend, and Advanced Tactics.  The author of CT has focused a great deal on fixing what is broke while trying to keep the fidelity of the orignal game.  As such it feels very much like the un-modded game, just a bit more balanced.  And for me it actually improved my immersion into the game.

Okay, straight to the point. There's a mod that allows co-op with a friend (LAN or via net), and play the original story? If so, how does it work when it comes to conversations? both get input or just the one (leader), only one get hailed as being the hero, or both?

[Nagillion]

I totally agree. Dragon Age: Origins was a bit easy for my taste even on nightmare and Awakening is just ridiculous.

Great new content, some really cool spells and abilities and items but difficulty-wise it's just a stroll in the park.

The biggest difference is in my opinion not that they have too little hp or damage but that you're facing smaller number of opponents. In Origins you could find yourself ambushed by up to 30 opponents at the time, where they would be strategically organized in archers, tanks and mages but here you fight maybe 6-7 where only one of them is elite. As a mage on nightmare I one-shot almost everything with the uber-imba-aoe-specialization keeper.

The bosses in origins were either alone (with enormous damage and hp pools) or had tons of minions. In Awakening they are almost always alone with very little hp or damage.

When I built my mage I intended for him to be a crowd-controller and I truly enjoy that role, but I have hardly had to use any of my cc-spells whatsoever in Awakening.

Some props for the attempt to make atleast one boss-fight challenging (the dragon) using different phases similar to a bossfight in world of warcraft - if he had had perhaps 30 times the hp and triple the damage it might've acctually made my Justice drop below 90% hp at some point.

[Dark Lilith]

no way is it too easy,remove all armor and weapons,then fight!

[Domyk]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...
Awakening is too easy

So roleplay like you are a real spartan from the movie 300 and play Naked with nothing but a weapon

[Haexpane]

Domyk wrote...
 

So roleplay like you are a real spartan from the movie 300 and play Naked with nothing but a weapon

Those weren't "real spartans" ....

[Nikatjef]

Smaaen90 wrote...
Okay, straight to the point. There's a mod that allows co-op with a friend (LAN or via net), and play the original story?

   Woops...  Sorry, when I said 'Bring a Friend', I was actually referring to the mod called 'Bring a Friend' by Emmental.  You can find the modules at;
      http://social.biowar...m/project/1335/

[Smaaen90]

Nikatjef wrote...

Smaaen90 wrote...
Okay, straight to the point. There's a mod that allows co-op with a friend (LAN or via net), and play the original story?

   Woops...  Sorry, when I said 'Bring a Friend', I was actually referring to the mod called 'Bring a Friend' by Emmental.  You can find the modules at;
      http://social.biowar...m/project/1335/

Oh.. well, talk about miss-leading name ;p But fair enough, thanks =)

[BLunted]

Yeah, i respecc'ed my lvl 23rogue to archery as early as I could. I steamrolled everything with auto-fire and the occasional arrow of slaying on elite or highers. Arrow of slaying was hitting for like 2700