42 réponses à ce sujet

[Grovermancer]

Because I just finished this game, I can't believe that I wasn't able to play as my party members who were back at the Keep, defending it against the attack as my main force was liberating Amaranthine.

Was this expansion rushed or something? 

It was otherwise enjoyable, but not putting that in... to have such an important, dramatic battle and plot-point just explained through dialogue of the commander and title cards during the epilogue... seems so lazy.

During Amaranthine, I was thinking of KOTOR 2 (yeah, I know, it was Obsidian, not Bioware), when your forces were divided into 2 squads (1 on Dxun, 1 on Onderon), and thought for sure that was gonna happen here, and was looking forward to it.  Hoped it would be a little "Helms Deepish" too.

But alas, no.

[Mirthadrond]

The ending of Awakenings sucks, badly.



I spent 1 day defending Amaranthine, then leave to track down the Brode Queen, after her I can't say for the rest of the players, but I would have headed straight to Vigils Keep after wards.



According to my epilogue, they were fighting for a week, so I can presume they'd still be fighting when I finished off the BM. I could easily make it back for the end of the battle.

[Grovermancer]

HK74 wrote...

You were forced to make a choice between saving the keep or saving Amaranthine. Choosing is sort of the point of choices.

Do you understand what I'm saying in the OP?


I wanted to play as the team I left behind at the Keep; not saying my main character should rush back to fight (though why not?  Why not rush back to the Keep, defend it, then go in force to the Mother?).  There are 3 of them you leave behind (assuming you've not killed any to that point), so I'd need 1 more; Captain Garavel, Seneschal Varel, that fabulous blacksmith Wade, whoever.


So as my main force was marching towards the Mother, I could hold the Keep as my defending force I'd left behind.  Heck, the map is already done anyhow, it's not like they'd have to make a new one (unless the battle were to take place in new portions of the Keep or surrounding areas).

[Grovermancer]

HK74 wrote...


I understand the concept, however I think that you're missing the point of being asked to make the decision. The fact that you can't save both locations is a contrivance designed to force you to prioritize. Do you save the people of Amaranthine or do you retreat to your fortress and leave the arling to fend for itself? 

Yeah, I understand that part ...  I'm not proposing I should be able to actually save both places.  I figured that they could make the battle 'end' however they wanted with cut-scenes.  (for ex, Oghren taking out the 2 Ogres, then passing out himself due to blood loss, all of which was writtin in the epilogue)

Wouldn't change the outcome of the battle, nor the 'historical repercussions' that are presented during the epilogue.

Though being able to play as both parties could present one problem...  If one goes back to defend Vigil's Keep (which I didn't do, so don't know what happens or how that even works), but if one did...  Then what "dual" battle would there be then?  Everyone would be at the Keep.  There would be no one to play as in Amaranthine.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 28 mars 2010 - 10:47 .

[Layn]

HK74 wrote...

I understand the concept, however I think that you're missing the point of being asked to make the decision. The fact that you can't save both locations is a contrivance designed to force you to prioritize. Do you save the people of Amaranthine or do you retreat to your fortress and leave the arling to fend for itself? 

but why shouldn't vigils keep be saveable, or at least playable without the warden-commander? Its a fortified keep, full of soldiers, and 3 of your companions. How much of a difference could your own little group make?
but well, it could just be a "survive this long" mission

Grovermancer wrote...

Though being able to play as both parties could
present one problem...  If one goes back to defend Vigil's Keep (which
I didn't do, so don't know what happens or how that even works), but if
one did...  Then what "dual" battle would there be then?  Everyone would
be at the Keep.  There would be no one to play as in Amaranthine.

you could play as the other party holding out until your group arrives.

Modifié par Crrash, 28 mars 2010 - 10:51 .

[Red Frostraven]

So... when I walk ALONE back to Amaranthine and clear up that mess, my 6 partymembers weren't able to hold the keep??



Can't Anders, Justice, Nathaniel, Velanna, Sigrun and Oghren hold the keep without my help when I could have held it alone?

[Volourn]

"I wanted to play as the team I left behind at the Keep"



You are supposed to be roleplaying your PC not the npcs.

[Nioxide]

Red Frostraven wrote...

So... when I walk ALONE back to Amaranthine and clear up that mess, my 6 partymembers weren't able to hold the keep??

Can't Anders, Justice, Nathaniel, Velanna, Sigrun and Oghren hold the keep without my help when I could have held it alone?

Yeah....only problem is its a game, you're supposed to make a choice and live with the concequences. As for the OP, I completley agree, a mod would be nice where you can control your remaining party members and *try* to save the fort.

You should still however, loose in the end.

[Nioxide]

HK74 wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...


Wouldn't change the outcome of the battle, nor the 'historical repercussions' that are presented during the epilogue.

So. . . what would be the point of fighting a battle with a pre-determined outcome? As it is, the upgrades you make to the keep and the way you interact with your companions determines the aftermath of the battle at the keep so why add a futile fight sequence in which nothing can be gained or lost? It would be redundant, no?

By that rational whats the point of people dressing up on weekends, and re-enacting battles from history whose outcome have already been determined? The outcome isn't the issue, you're not going to play the game to try and change it in this one and only context. It would be nice to see how heroicly the keep was defended against overwhelming odds. Thats a battle I would like to play in Dragon Age, even if I do end up buried under a wall or have my head chopped off.

[Grovermancer]

HK74 wrote...

So. . . what would be the point of fighting a battle with a pre-determined outcome? As it is, the upgrades you make to the keep and the way you interact with your companions determines the aftermath of the battle at the keep so why add a futile fight sequence in which nothing can be gained or lost? It would be redundant, no?

First, because it's fun.  Like all combat is (for me, at least) in the game.
Second, you don't know how it's gonna end (the first play-through). 
Third, the choices you make regarding fixing the Keep still influence how the battle goes.  (this was similar to BW's NWN: HOTU seige battle)
Forth, everything that happens plot-wise within this (or any) game is within certain limits, which you somewhat mention in your next post:

HK74 wrote...

No, they can't. The plot says no. Just as
your companions can't go off and complete the rest of the game without
you because then you're redundant.

[Grovermancer]

Volourn wrote...

"I wanted to play as the team I left behind at the Keep"

You are supposed to be roleplaying your PC not the npcs.

So what about in DA when you have to hold the Denerim gate against the Darkspawn?  That's not your PC.

[Volourn]

"So what about in DA when you have to hold the Denerim gate against the Darkspawn? That's not your PC."



Don't get me started. L0L

[Grovermancer]

Volourn wrote...

"So what about in DA when you have to hold the Denerim gate against the Darkspawn? That's not your PC."

Don't get me started. L0L

Did you play KOTOR 2?

What did you think of that mission I referenced (Dxun/tomb of Freedon Nadd and Onderon/Royal Palace)?  That was an extended, significant mission with 2 teams going simulataneously!

[Raiil]

I'd like to be able to do that, myself. And not just because I want to explore the Keep again (seriously, what the ****, why can't I putz around the Keep more? It's my castle, stop locking me out of the other rooms!)

[Bryy_Miller]

Grovermancer wrote...


Because I just finished this game, I can't believe that I wasn't able to play as my party members who were back at the Keep, defending it against the attack as my main force was liberating Amaranthine.

Didn't you hear? It's on Xbox Live already. 

[Xanfaus]

 What I find silly is that you could save the city and then the keep since you know exactly where the Mother is and she's not likely to move anywhere anytime soon. And after a couple of weeks worth of rest and random quests doing whatever, you and the remaining forces of your military can collectively march against the Mother's forces for a nice, fairly easy victory.
To me it seems like Bioware just wanted to add a "choice" at the end of the expansion and did not really worry about whether it made any sense.

[Mystiana]

I find it hard to believe that the Keep would fall considering the fortified walls, plus the other Wardens and soldiers there...it's prepped for battle unlike a city.



It didn't seem realistic that it would fall so easily imo.

[mousestalker]

There is that countdown clock that's going on the bioware site for ME, ME2 and DA. The best guess I've heard is that it's for some simultaneous release DLC. The OP's idea would make for a nice DLC package.



It actually could happen.

[Mystiana]

one can hope