93 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Eh, people have their opinions. I don't really see much parallel between Tali and Leia besides that they're prominently in all iterations of the trilogy.

[GuardianAngel470]

kraidy1117 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

ME2 wasn't the end of the trilogy. I was responding to a poster who said that Luke and Han being replaced by some other dudes in the last movie would be bad. Fortunately for you, Bioware has given plenty of indication that Liara will return in a big way, and quite probably as a squad mate. You may disagree with me though.

ME2 wasn't the end of the trilogy but Luke and Han weren't replaced in Empire neither (unlike Ash/Kaidan/Liara/Wrex in ME2)

As far as Liara, they've given no indication she'll return as a squad mate.  I don't have faith that she will at this point.  They might give her a DLC role and then side-line her again for the remainder of the series.

No see Garrus and Tali were the Han and Leia. 

No, Tali is not Leia. Don't disgace a well done character like that.

Wait, so you dislike tali?  CURSE YOU!!!( at least that's what you would expect me to say)  No but seriously,  you know what I'm getting at right?  I was saying that if you were looking for two main characters that carried over into the 2nd act then there you go.

I mean, do they even see jaba in the second one? Just kidding, but you see what I'm getting at.

LOL nah if anything lIara is more like Liea in my mind, and if anything I would say Shepard is Han solo and Kirk in ME. Double package FTW

I always like Garrus better than Shepard anyways, and Liara is so totally not Leia.  She isn't strong willed, I never used her in ME1 so I can't say anything as to her combat effectiveness, and Leia's been around.  Liara hasn't, she's was a naive and ignorant little girl in ME1 and she let the events between ME1 and ME2 change who she was.  Leia would never do that.  She was callous in ANH and she warmed up eventually, but she never changed who she was.

[GuardianAngel470]

Collider wrote...

Eh, people have their opinions. I don't really see much parallel between Tali and Leia besides that they're prominently in all iterations of the trilogy.

Yeah, me neither, I was never like "Oh snaps, tali is just like Leia!"  I was just making a cursory comparison to support my analogy.

[kraidy1117]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

ME2 wasn't the end of the trilogy. I was responding to a poster who said that Luke and Han being replaced by some other dudes in the last movie would be bad. Fortunately for you, Bioware has given plenty of indication that Liara will return in a big way, and quite probably as a squad mate. You may disagree with me though.

ME2 wasn't the end of the trilogy but Luke and Han weren't replaced in Empire neither (unlike Ash/Kaidan/Liara/Wrex in ME2)

As far as Liara, they've given no indication she'll return as a squad mate.  I don't have faith that she will at this point.  They might give her a DLC role and then side-line her again for the remainder of the series.

No see Garrus and Tali were the Han and Leia. 

No, Tali is not Leia. Don't disgace a well done character like that.

Wait, so you dislike tali?  CURSE YOU!!!( at least that's what you would expect me to say)  No but seriously,  you know what I'm getting at right?  I was saying that if you were looking for two main characters that carried over into the 2nd act then there you go.

I mean, do they even see jaba in the second one? Just kidding, but you see what I'm getting at.

LOL nah if anything lIara is more like Liea in my mind, and if anything I would say Shepard is Han solo and Kirk in ME. Double package FTW

I always like Garrus better than Shepard anyways, and Liara is so totally not Leia.  She isn't strong willed, I never used her in ME1 so I can't say anything as to her combat effectiveness, and Leia's been around.  Liara hasn't, she's was a naive and ignorant little girl in ME1 and she let the events between ME1 and ME2 change who she was.  Leia would never do that.  She was callous in ANH and she warmed up eventually, but she never changed who she was.

She changed big time in Return of the Jedi, wait RotJ was a bad end to the trilogy............... lets hope to god Bioware does not say ME will be the return of the Jedi of video games.

[Collider]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Liara isn't strong willed,

Yea because Liara didn't go through hell to find Shepard and make sure Shepard survived...oh wait. Not to mention her determination at getting back at the shadow broker.

[kraidy1117]

Collider wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Liara isn't strong willed,

Yea because Liara didn't go through hell to find Shepard and make sure Shepard survived...oh wait. Not to mention her determination at getting back at the shadow broker.

Thats not strong willed.....wait that is.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Mass Effect 3 will end with the Reaper base blowing up over a not-previously-introduced race of teddy bears dancing and singing and doing physical comedy.

[GuardianAngel470]

Collider wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Liara isn't strong willed,

Yea because Liara didn't go through hell to find Shepard and make sure Shepard survived...oh wait. Not to mention her determination at getting back at the shadow broker.

I was thinking ME1 liara.  I did that comparison in chronological order, start with not strong willed, then say that she let herself be changed by the events of the interlude.  She definitely showed a backbone rescuing Shepard and all but that obsession with the shadow broker was just not her.

[Collider]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Collider wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Liara isn't strong willed,

Yea because Liara didn't go through hell to find Shepard and make sure Shepard survived...oh wait. Not to mention her determination at getting back at the shadow broker.

I was thinking ME1 liara.  I did that comparison in chronological order, start with not strong willed, then say that she let herself be changed by the events of the interlude.  She definitely showed a backbone rescuing Shepard and all but that obsession with the shadow broker was just not her.

Technically is her. A lot of the context is missing if you didn't read the comics. If you didn't read them, the whole revenge on the shadow broker thing may seem to be a large jump.

[kraidy1117]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Mass Effect 3 will end with the Reaper base blowing up over a not-previously-introduced race of teddy bears dancing and singing and doing physical comedy.

You do know you just summed up the end of Return of the Jedi, something Bioware better not do or alot of people will be disapointed.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Ha, yes, that was the idea.

[kraidy1117]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Ha, yes, that was the idea.

Lets hope that does not happen. I want a epic trilogy ending ala Return of the king

[janeym27]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Mass Effect 3 will end with the Reaper base blowing up over a not-previously-introduced race of teddy bears dancing and singing and doing physical comedy.

But not before releasing an edition where Garrus only actually shoots Sidonus (or posibly Fist) after he pulls out a gun and fires it first, missing Gar totally.

And the bar at Flux and Afterlife will suddenly be stocked with all manner of additional aliens, including a jazz band which doesn't quite seem to fit the tone of the locale.

Yes. I look forward to all this and more.

[The Governator]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

No thanks. If you love the ME2 squad so much, just keep playing ME2. I want a new batch of real soldiers this time. I hope that BioWare gets away from this comic book bullsh!t. No more psycho goofballs, useless assassins, justicars in crackwh0re outfits, incompetent boobs with oversize bewbs & bubble butts or 'pure' krogan test tube losers. I'd rather have a professional squad of Alliance Spec Ops guys & gals. If I'm supposed to be saving the galaxy then give me some people that are reliably competent and mature. I certainly don't want to hold their hands or have to provide a shoulder to cry on. If BioWare wants to do a cartoon super hero game then they should just go ahead and license some Marvel or DC Comic characters and get it over with.

Maybe you should just play Call of Duty.

He has a point.  We spend about half of the game addressing and resolving each character's most closely held personal issues.  There are only two characters whose issues we don't even acknowledge...Shepard and Joker.  I like the character development and how the game draws you in, but pragmatically it would have been better.  I am not suggesting that no character development takes place, just that I would have preferred it through dialog options and 'blue' and 'red' text options.

[Commander Rpg]

IoCaster wrote...

Why? I have no interest in playing CoD. I want to play ME3 without the wacky, teen oriented, comic book crap. That whole Loyalist, Genius, Archangel, Joker, Riddler, Batman, etc,.. nonsense is just plain silly and juvenile. 

Somebody give this kid a joint.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

IoCaster wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...



Yeah, because space marines **HOOOOORAH!!!111!!1!** have really interesting character depth as showed with Ashley and Kaidan in ME1.

And if you found all of that silly, you're playing the wrong game.

(IMO) The vast majority of people that play ME & ME2 aren't on this board obsessing over their digital romance objects or fictional cyber-bros. They are not on here creating love and adoration threads or participating in them. That's the broader market that EA/BioWare are concerned with. It was a calculated risk for them to take a reasonably serious sci-fi plot and turn it into a teen oriented, space fantasy emofest. (IMO)

(IMO) I can only imagine that they were looking to expand their audience, but I'm not convinced that they succeeded. As of the end of February they hadn't yet sold a million copies of the game on the Xbox 360 in the US. Hopefully they've reached that milestone by now, but I'm pretty damn sure that they (EA/BioWare) were expecting better sales than that. With the big marketing push and millions spent on advertising they're not in the same league as something like Gears of War, Halo or CoD. Maybe they'll get the message that wacky, comic book hero wannabes are not all that compelling or interesting to the majority of gamers. (IMO)

(IMO) I'm firmly convinced that everything about ME3 was deliberately designed to attract a wider audience. The contrived plot that necessitated the destruction of the Normandy. The death of Shepard and his/her resurrection. The grotesque group of absurd and over-the-top characters. The sublimely ridiculous and stupid outfits for Miranda, Samara and Jack. The 'pure' Krogan, hilariously named Grunt, for the Wrex groupies. An alien assassin with remarkable and cinematic martial arts skills which contributed absolutely nothing to the actual mission. The morally ambiguous megalomaniac with cybernetic eyes that they constantly framed, just in case you didn't notice the first ten times they focused on them. And so on...(IMO) 

(IMO) I really wish that they hadn't compromised the coherency and continuity of the original story because of it. The game itself seems to have this split personality of absurdity and seriousness trying to coexist within the same framework. One minute you're watching Jack take apart three Ymir mechs with biotics and bare knuckles. The next moment she's telling you about being abused and tortured in a Cerberus facility. It's an uneasy marriage of super hero stunt and sober drama. It was extremely jarring and off putting for me. (IMO) 

(IMO) Basically, the story and cast didn't make any kind of sense to me. Fortunately, the production quality and everything else was top notch. It's great fun as a standalone video game, but I don't like it as a sequel for Mass Effect. I'm hoping like hell that they take a more serious approach with the story for ME3. And yes, that means that I want them to sideline this bunch of misfits from ME2 and give me a new squad to work with. (IMO) 

(IMO)Yeah, because Halo, Gears and COD make huge success because of their story. And Mass Effect 2 is so teenage emo oriented that it has a big Rated-M for mature for every commercial. <_<(IMO)

(IMO)Mass Effect 2 is a darker second chapter before the epic finale, like Empire Strikes Back. It's not like noone did this before, and I find it a good line of direction. The council left Shepard's mission on the reapers for lack of evidence. They DID this to you before. The death of Shepard was the reapers comeback to him. They could have done that, all of galatic technology is based on reaper technology. How is this incoherent? They are much more advanced. Later, Commander Shepard is going on a suicide like mission when you don't know what to expect. That's why you're gonna get the best for whatever you're gonna finda there.(IMO)

(IMO)Did we play the same game? Jack wasn't a mind****ed robot with her personality based on a cliche'd emotionless cold character. Humans have issues. She was a ****ed up girl. So was Miranda. Thane is an assassin, for whatever situation you need someone to make a stealth infiltration. Samara was some extremist religious powerful biotic asari matriarch, few could match her biotics. And you know what? She had a background I didn't expect. Grunt was the "super krogan", and had his concerns for his strength not having any purpose or a past. All based on making a team out of the best you could find, but they were not just tough, they had their story. Characters with substance.(IMO)

(IMO)I was a LOT concerned about the characters because I was fearing it would be like you said: "oh, Bioware is looking for a broader audience, they are gonna make your squad based on streamlined bad asses". I found myself very WRONG. I liked all of them, except Jack.(IMO)

[sunnyfunny]

Ill give this topic a bump..























bump

[DragonShepard138]

Wow, I'm surprised this topic spans four pages in such a short time. I agree with the user who said something along the lines of since its a trilogy Bioware needs to expand upon its already existing characters and add more to the fray. This is likely the final battle, Shep needs a small army to combat this since this is unlike anything he has ever faced. Sovereign alone caused immense problems for the galaxy and its fleet pretty near destroyed the Citadel; an entire army of reapers would be near impossible to stop without a strong army.

[IoCaster]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

(IMO)Yeah, because Halo, Gears and COD make huge success because of their story. And Mass Effect 2 is so teenage emo oriented that it has a big Rated-M for mature for every commercial. <_<(IMO)

(IMO) There's your split personality right there. From one moment to the next you transition from kiddie super hero crap to violent mature themes. The impression that I take away from it is that this was written from too many different viewpoints and it doesn't really mesh properly. To my mind there's a definite lack of cohesion throughout the games plot. It's like a distorted picture assembled from the pieces of more than one puzzle. An example I can think of is if you take a PG rated film and throw in a bunch of f-bombs and a scantily clad female lead. Now you have an R rated movie but the script is the same one that's geared more for the original intended audience. Sometimes this works but it's a really difficult thing to pull off successfully. (IMO)

(IMO)Mass Effect 2 is a darker second chapter before the epic finale, like Empire Strikes Back. It's not like noone did this before, and I find it a good line of direction. The council left Shepard's mission on the reapers for lack of evidence. They DID this to you before. The death of Shepard was the reapers comeback to him. They could have done that, all of galatic technology is based on reaper technology. How is this incoherent? They are much more advanced. Later, Commander Shepard is going on a suicide like mission when you don't know what to expect. That's why you're gonna get the best for whatever you're gonna finda there.(IMO)

(IMO) Well to be honest with you I think this whole paragraph is a bit incoherent. If you have a difficult time summarizing the plot of the game, then it wasn't really presented in a clear and concise manner. That's the problem that some people, myself included, have with the story. It's a bit of contrived nonsense any way you look at it. Right from the beginning you have this situation that the Collectors have been raiding human colonies for ~2 years. Yet coincidentally, they never left any evidence, witnesses or security camera footage until Shepard is resurrected and on the scene. I realize it's a video game, but come on that's the least of the conspicuous plot devices we're presented with almost immediately in the game. (IMO)

(IMO)Did we play the same game? Jack wasn't a mind****ed robot with her personality based on a cliche'd emotionless cold character. Humans have issues. She was a ****ed up girl. So was Miranda. Thane is an assassin, for whatever situation you need someone to make a stealth infiltration. Samara was some extremist religious powerful biotic asari matriarch, few could match her biotics. And you know what? She had a background I didn't expect. Grunt was the "super krogan", and had his concerns for his strength not having any purpose or a past. All based on making a team out of the best you could find, but they were not just tough, they had their story. Characters with substance.(IMO)

(IMO) One of the big problems that I have with the squad is that they're presented in such a way that I can't take them seriously. They dressed them up in ridiculous costumes and portrayed them as silly comic book characters. It was hard to be concerned about their personal trials and tribulations when I'm too busy laughing at the juvenile nature of it all. Seriously, I was looking at Miranda strutting around the Collector ship in her skintight suit, heels and breather mask and thinking about how damned stupid it was. I guess I was supposed to suspend my disbelief and stare in wonder at how cool she looked. It seemed like the 'coolness' factor was meant to trump all other considerations or something. *shrug* (IMO)

(IMO)I was a LOT concerned about the characters because I was fearing it would be like you said: "oh, Bioware is looking for a broader audience, they are gonna make your squad based on streamlined bad asses". I found myself very WRONG. I liked all of them, except Jack.(IMO)

(IMO) I know I'm in the minority on this forum when it comes to my positive dislike for most of the ME2 squad. That's understandable because it's mostly the really committed fans that would spend any time here. I'm here because I'm a big fan of BioWare games including the Mass Effect series. I don't care for the characters, but it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the game because I get to plot their deaths as part of the overall experience of playing it. So it's all good at the end of the day, but I'm hoping that they introduce some new squad members in ME3 that are a bit more realistic. A tighter focus on the main story arc would be nice too. (IMO)

Modifié par IoCaster, 29 mars 2010 - 06:01 .