232 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigeyez]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Nobody is saying that free =/= opinions. They are saying free =/= BS Indignation.

Whoa whoa whoa, look at you being Mr reasonable. Didn't you get the memo that an enormous sense of entitlement, nerd raging, exaggerated claims, and BS Indignation are the only means of expression allowed on these forums?

[TAJ4Life]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

I love this game, and admire and appreciate the work the devs put into it. However, I just have a very simple observation to make about something that seems to me is a glaring letdown like a bride with a black eye on her wedding day...

The Firewalker DLC sucks.

Yes the HH is cool, I loved the mako and I think the HH is different and cool at the same time.

The DLC is just way too short, boring and linear.

In ME1 we had dozens of planets each with different scenarios and objectives to meet. Sometimes even with fully fleshed side quests even though the majority were executed with "cookie cutter" designs.

Here we were given a measly five...FIVE missions that barely last a few minutes each and include nothing more than spamming missiles and hopping about in the HH which was cool for about 5 mins or so...pretty much the duration of the first mission by the way...

I already can predict those of us who are going to answer with the "more is on the way" excuse, to that I answer that first of all, this is probably going to be the only free HH dlc we get, it should have been included in the main game as the vehicle element was a major part of the first ME and to make it such a watered down pathetic excuse of a DLC is simply stupid and misleading, this is supposed ot be a sequel, not a completely different game.

To make further installments that would give it any actually decent gameplay value like extra missions or the ABILITY TO ACTUALLY ENTER OUR OWN FRIGIN GARAGE available only by purchasing them makes it dishonest.

It is truly egregious that Bioware has decided to sacrifice developer integrity and game quality in the name of increased profits.

This DLC is obvious evidence of the new formula employed by BIO for ME2:

"Develop things that should have been included in the original game for free, and then release them for a price months after the original release date as "DLC". "

When you turn a major part of the ME universe into a 30 min total experience and charge to make us experience what would (maybe) make it passable in the future as an improvement to what it was in ME1, that is dishonest.

When you don't even have the common sense to allow us to go into our own garage and actually fully explore our ship, that is simply sloppy development and an ENORMOUS immersion breaker...just chalk it up to the already long list of sloppy design choices that ruin game immersion. "can you say Mission Complete Screens?"

When you announce that you are going to charge us to be able to unlock a character that opens up the last locked room in our ship you invite scorn and contempt from those who previously considered themselves die hard fans.

This is a truly sad let down. I applaud some of the changes made for ME2 and by no means mean to imply that ME2 should be designed according to what my personal tastes are.

I am, however, completely within my rights to point out sloppy and irresponsible development choices when approaching game elements that many people expected to be improved and expanded upon.

And please dont use that silly "quality over quantity" BS excuse. The quality of the environments and missions for the Firewalker pack is BARELY better than any of the sidequests involving the mako. If you take into consideration the scope and breadth of the ME1 vehicle side quests then the abysmal quality of the firewalker DLC becomes painfully apparent.

Super jumps and missile spamming all over the place in short corridor maps does not equal quality over quantity. Period.

I can totally understand if someone disagrees with me disliking the content of the HH missions, but regardless, any objective gamer when comparing the amount and quality of vehicle missions in ME1 to the pathetic amount and mediocre quality of the ME2 vehicle missions should be able to come to the same conclusion:

This DLC sucked.

*Raises Flame Shield +3"

I agree however the Blind Bioware loyalists will not see what you are trying to say instead they will hit back and say 'its free quit your crying' oh wait too late *sigh*

From what I know the DLC was supposed to be on the disc so no to those saying it was free err no you already paid for it as it was supposed to be on the disc so the complaint is very valid.

In all the years I have been playing video games developers never listen to the community that is a known fact many examples can be given in the way of sequels from many developers same as politics no one ever listens.

If you try and make your voice heard on a forum you either get banned or get called a troll its kinda sad really defeats the whole object of having a forum aka community.

[Chala]

TJSolo wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Is simple, the firewalker pack is a DLC NOT an EXPANSION, and also, as adriano_c wrote: "Its free, don't complain"

A slap in the face is free as well.
Some people would have a complaint, while others would smile and ask for more.
There are a few very valid complaints;
no health display, a problem for deaf gamers and people that prefer health displayed
mis-mapped keys in the PC tutorial
no saving in the mission.

the mis-mapped keys isn't a big problem
the saving points? the missions are short, very short and easy, I only died once
about heath display, yep you're right, some like having one, others not, or just don't care (like me ), and about the deaf gamers, I can't argue you (seriously, bioware needs to make a captions systems like Valve)

[Bigeyez]

TJSolo wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

It's funny how people keep coming up with "comparisons" that are nothing like whats happening here.

"You'd complain about free tires that break!"
"You'd complain about a free slap to the face!"
"You'd complain about a free pile of **** on your hands!"

What, is this thread a reunion of Strawman arguements R Us or something?

Yes people getting mediocore free DLC is completely equal to getting faulty tires which could kill you, a slap to the face which would hurt you, and someone ****ting on you, which some freaky people might find sexy. Mhm. Flawless internet logic at work.

The logic that is spawned from "it is free so don't complain" is a direct reflection of the fallacy of that statement.

Any logic can be "proven flawed" if taken to stupid extremes. Case in point, Glen Beck. From the looks of it you guys suscribe to his tactic of making strawman arguments and taking points to their extremes in order to "prove" your points.
People are talking about a DLC pack for a VIDEOGAME and yet you and others are trying to equate that to possible death, bodily harm, and someone taking a crap on you.

Whats next, "If someone offered to murder your family for free, you'd complain!".

Seriously, it's perfectly fine to complain about the DLC being ****ty. The point is you all are acting is if Bioware walked over to your mother's house and pimped slapped the snot out of her. There are already a ton of threads on the topic and instead of continuing a discussion of one of those here is yet another thread on the same damn thing. Maybe if you guys voiced your complaints in a form other then "zomgz bioware suxzors and leik EA is the evil empire and they betrayed us!!!!111!" You'd get more positive responses from people.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 29 mars 2010 - 08:01 .

[TJSolo]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Is simple, the firewalker pack is a DLC NOT an EXPANSION, and also, as adriano_c wrote: "Its free, don't complain"

A slap in the face is free as well.
Some people would have a complaint, while others would smile and ask for more.
There are a few very valid complaints;
no health display, a problem for deaf gamers and people that prefer health displayed
mis-mapped keys in the PC tutorial
no saving in the mission.

the mis-mapped keys isn't a big problem
the saving points? the missions are short, very short and easy, I only died once
about heath display, yep you're right, some like having one, others not, or just don't care (like me ), and about the deaf gamers, I can't argue you (seriously, bioware needs to make a captions systems like Valve)

The mis-mapped keys and losing the ability to save are issues, regardless of your personal perception and experience.

[UHitMeInTheEar]

I'm not going to hate it but the only value I see is the small amount of credits and XP you get from completing it...the fun of driving around and shooting is gone after the first mission or two...much the same way as planet scanning became a chore after the second planet. I hope the game play, story and exploration are ramped way up in any further HH DLC.

[DizzyDeeds]

From what I just saw on gametrailers.com it is a test to see if they get feedback on the HH or possibly go back to the Mako. I know I like the HH. I'm doing another playthrough on ME1 and keeping everyone alive on side missions, driving the Mako up everest sucks.

[Chala]

TJSolo wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Is simple, the firewalker pack is a DLC NOT an EXPANSION, and also, as adriano_c wrote: "Its free, don't complain"

A slap in the face is free as well.
Some people would have a complaint, while others would smile and ask for more.
There are a few very valid complaints;
no health display, a problem for deaf gamers and people that prefer health displayed
mis-mapped keys in the PC tutorial
no saving in the mission.

the mis-mapped keys isn't a big problem
the saving points? the missions are short, very short and easy, I only died once
about heath display, yep you're right, some like having one, others not, or just don't care (like me ), and about the deaf gamers, I can't argue you (seriously, bioware needs to make a captions systems like Valve)

The mis-mapped keys and losing the ability to save are issues, regardless of your personal perception and experience.

what, explain well, no saving points an issue? like a mistake or like a bug? (sorry, i don't speak english)

[TJSolo]

Bigeyez wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

It's funny how people keep coming up with "comparisons" that are nothing like whats happening here.

"You'd complain about free tires that break!"
"You'd complain about a free slap to the face!"
"You'd complain about a free pile of **** on your hands!"

What, is this thread a reunion of Strawman arguements R Us or something?

Yes people getting mediocore free DLC is completely equal to getting faulty tires which could kill you, a slap to the face which would hurt you, and someone ****ting on you, which some freaky people might find sexy. Mhm. Flawless internet logic at work.

The logic that is spawned from "it is free so don't complain" is a direct reflection of the fallacy of that statement.

Any logic can be "proven flawed" if taken to stupid extremes. Case in point, Glen Beck. From the looks of it you guys suscribe to his tactic of making strawman arguments and taking points to their extremes in order to "prove" your points.
People are talking about a DLC pack for a VIDEOGAME and yet you and others are trying to equate that to possible death, bodily harm, and someone taking a crap on you.

Whats next, "If someone offered to murder your family for free, you'd complain!".

Seriously, it's perfectly fine to complain about the DLC being ****ty. The point is you all are acting is if Bioware walked over to your mother's house and pimped slapped the snot out of her. There are already a ton of threads on the topic and instead of continuing a discussion of one of those here is yet another thread on the same damn thing. Maybe if you guys voiced your complaints in a form other then "zomgz bioware suxzors and leik EA is the evil empire and they betrayed us!!!!111!" You'd get more positive responses from people.

Oh the irony of taking examples to extremes, slippery slope logic wants to greet you.
The examples given were to show the fault in the reasoning process, most of them are not even extremes.
The "it is free , so don't complain" is horrible reasoning period.

The topic is the firewalker being poor content, with various points. If something is wrong with the points bring attention to that. Being over zealous about logical fallacies is silly and makes one prone to committing them.

[TJSolo]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

what, explain well, no saving points an issue? like a mistake or like a bug? (sorry, i don't speak english)

At anytime in ME2 a player can pause and save, unless they are in a fight.
With the Firewalker missions once you are in the HH a player can not save. I don't know if it can be called a bug or a mistake. I am just calling it problem because it does not match how any other mission works in ME2.

[Vena_86]

Its kinda free.

But the DLC sucks. Nice vehicle, horrible mission and level design. And its very short and has almost no impact on the actual game and feels tacked on, which it is. But that is DLC in general.



Even free things have to take feedback, no matter if good or bad.

[Bigeyez]

TJSolo wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...

It's funny how people keep coming up with "comparisons" that are nothing like whats happening here.

"You'd complain about free tires that break!"
"You'd complain about a free slap to the face!"
"You'd complain about a free pile of **** on your hands!"

What, is this thread a reunion of Strawman arguements R Us or something?

Yes people getting mediocore free DLC is completely equal to getting faulty tires which could kill you, a slap to the face which would hurt you, and someone ****ting on you, which some freaky people might find sexy. Mhm. Flawless internet logic at work.

The logic that is spawned from "it is free so don't complain" is a direct reflection of the fallacy of that statement.

Any logic can be "proven flawed" if taken to stupid extremes. Case in point, Glen Beck. From the looks of it you guys suscribe to his tactic of making strawman arguments and taking points to their extremes in order to "prove" your points.
People are talking about a DLC pack for a VIDEOGAME and yet you and others are trying to equate that to possible death, bodily harm, and someone taking a crap on you.

Whats next, "If someone offered to murder your family for free, you'd complain!".

Seriously, it's perfectly fine to complain about the DLC being ****ty. The point is you all are acting is if Bioware walked over to your mother's house and pimped slapped the snot out of her. There are already a ton of threads on the topic and instead of continuing a discussion of one of those here is yet another thread on the same damn thing. Maybe if you guys voiced your complaints in a form other then "zomgz bioware suxzors and leik EA is the evil empire and they betrayed us!!!!111!" You'd get more positive responses from people.

Oh the irony of taking examples to extremes, slippery slope logic wants to greet you.
The examples given were to show the fault in the reasoning process, most of them are not even extremes.
The "it is free , so don't complain" is horrible reasoning period.

The topic is the firewalker being poor content, with various points. If something is wrong with the points bring attention to that. Being over zealous about logical fallacies is silly and makes one prone to committing them.

Heh I'm just applying the same "logic" that has been used repeatedly thorughout this thread.

Comparing VIDEOGAME DLC, let me stress that V I D E O G A M E D L C, to getting faulty tires on your car, getting slapped in the face, and someone taking a **** on you isn't taking something to an extreme??? Really?

Again, if the complaints were made in a more reasonable way and not in repeated threads over and over then maybe people would be more prone to having a discussion and actually talking about the many flaws the DLC does have. But you can't expect anyone to take you seriously when you all are trying to compare this to extreme situations like the tires/slap/**** scenarios that people have given.

Edit: In an effort to actually discuss the topic, I have to say that the only really fun thing I found with the Firewalker pack was the HH itself. It was a blast to drive around and control. My only complaints with the vehicle itself are the missile launcher which is inaccurate and doesn't really even head for the target your aiming at sometimes and the fact that the tank seems to be made of tissue paper, especially on Insanity.

The missions themselves were boring, extremely linear, dull, and the story was pretty much not there at all. They were all incredibly short and left me wanting for more time in the HH. Ideally in real exploration, not what basically amounts to a corridor with enemies like these missions are.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 29 mars 2010 - 08:48 .

[MorseDenizen]

I dunno about this argument guys but, i have to say i agree with the gift car example, to continue, 3 months ago i bought 24/7 by gusgus on vinyl and was stunned to find a cd copy of the album uncluded for free. It wasn't in retail packaging and the flimsy plastic sheaf felt tacky but hell i got the cd for free and loved it, just like i enjoyed zaeed and the normandy it was i felt a little bit of a change and a nice touch oh yes and free isn't something to turn one's nose up to, bottom line i havent played firewalker yet but i intend to and i dont think i'll complain unless my game crashes, if u put all the free dlc together its added quite a lot to the game i think. I'm a bit doubtful about kasumi but so far its been quite a pleasant ride, by all accounts the hh drives drives better than the mako the weapons and armour are ok, zaeed can be pretty cool and can be pretty handy in a tight spot and the normandy site was touching i thought... Points to ponder guys and girls, all in all we got quite a lot of great stuff for free isn't it?

Modifié par MorseDenizen, 29 mars 2010 - 09:03 .

[MorseDenizen]

u dunno about this argument guys but, i have to say i agree with the gift car example, to continue, 3 months ago i bought 24/7 by gusgus on vinyl and was stunned to find a cd copy of the album uncluded for free. It wasn't in retail packaging and the flimsy plastic sheaf felt tacky but hell i got the cd for free and loved it, just like i enjoyed zaeed and the normandy it was i felt a little bit of a change and a nice touch oh yes and free isn't something to turn one's nose up to, bottom line i havent played firewalker yet but i intend to and i dont think i'll complain unless my game crashes, if u put all the free dlc together its added quite a lot to the game i think. I'm a bit doubtful about kasumi but so far its been quite a pleasant ride, by all accounts the hh drives drives better than the mako the weapons and armour are ok, zaeed can be pretty cool and can be pretty handy in a tight spot and the normandy site was touching i thought... Points to ponder guys and girls, all in all we got quite a lot of great stuff for free isn't it?

[TJSolo]

Bigeyez wrote...


Heh I'm just applying the same "logic" that has been used repeatedly thorughout this thread.

Comparing VIDEOGAME DLC, let me stress that V I D E O G A M E D L C, to getting faulty tires on your car, getting slapped in the face, and someone taking a **** on you isn't taking something to an extreme??? Really?

Again, if the complaints were made in a more reasonable way and not in repeated threads over and over then maybe people would be more prone to having a discussion and actually talking about the many flaws the DLC does have. But you can't expect anyone to take you seriously when you all are trying to compare this to extreme situations like the tires/slap/**** scenarios that people have given.

No you are picking logic that was used to prove the logic issue of "It is free so don't complain". You seem to be associating that statement solely with videogame DLC. That statement is not limited to videogame DLC. That statement has existed and been used as an illogical scapegoat for other "free" things. Each and everytime someone uses the phrase "it is free don't complain" it is illogical.

You seem to be confused about the intended audience of threads like this, it is not you. You chose to read this thread and then go off on how tiring it is to read threads like this, your fault. There isn't a sticky on this issue so there is no central thread for it. There are stickies that were used to announce the Firewalker but this stickies topic wise aren't feedback related. When there is a unified feedback sticky your point of containing topics like this will be valid.

Again those are not extremes(**** excluded) when compared to free DLC. Logical extremes are unlikely, rare, over-imagined, exagerrated and/or polar opposite situations. Most of those are used to show how invalid "It is free don't complain" is.

[Bryy_Miller]

TJSolo wrote...

Most of those are used to show how invalid "It is free don't complain" is.

All you've done is said "nu-uh", you have no made a single comprehensible point as to why people should be able to compare fake content to real life.

[Bigeyez]

TJSolo we are talking about videogame DLC here. THAT is why I'm basing my statements solely on videogame DLC, since it is what we are talking about.



Comparing videogame DLC to any of the things it has been compared to in this thread is idiotic and a strawman argument at best. People here are comparing something that at most leaves a sour taste in your mouth and a bad experience (DLC for a videogame) with something that could lead to you dying (Your tires being faulty). Do you not see how that is extreme and just might incline people to not take you seriously? It's the same reason why "Faux" News gets so made fun of and is not taken seriously by anyone with a brain.



Hm if I should just avoid these threads and not complain about them doesn't that mean that you should be able to avoid this piece of bad DLC and not complain about it? (<-- Faulty Logic, but an example of taking someones logic to an opposite extreme, ie what I'm saying you guys are doing.)



You have a right to complain about bad DLC just like I have the right to get annoyed by this repeat threads and strawman arguments. We both think the DLC was bad. The only disagreement we seem to have with each other at this point is the semantics/wording about how this is being discussed.

[binaryemperor]

I think the DLC was just to gauge people's reactions to the Hammerhead, in case they planned on using it in ME3, not really to supply an amazing, orgasmic experience.



Personally I thought the Hammerhead is awesome and am hoping it is used extensively in ME3.

[Bryy_Miller]

Dude, whatever happened to this?

Bigeyez wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Nobody is saying that free =/= opinions. They are saying free =/= BS Indignation.

Whoa whoa whoa, look at you being Mr reasonable. Didn't you get the memo that an enormous sense of entitlement, nerd raging, exaggerated claims, and BS Indignation are the only means of expression allowed on these forums?

Seems someone is a hypocritic.

[Bigeyez]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Dude, whatever happened to this?

Bigeyez wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Nobody is saying that free =/= opinions. They are saying free =/= BS Indignation.

Whoa whoa whoa, look at you being Mr reasonable. Didn't you get the memo that an enormous sense of entitlement, nerd raging, exaggerated claims, and BS Indignation are the only means of expression allowed on these forums?

Seems someone is a hypocritic.

Yup I totally go around these forums and use all of the above completely seriously and every single one of my posts. I don't use them in satire to point out how others are acting. I am deadly serious in all this discussions, because as we all know, the Internet is Serious Business. Mhm.

I love the ME forums. They are fun.

Edit: BTW I was agreeing with what you said if you didn't catch that.
Edit 2: And I'm totally not trying to rip on you so don't take this the wrong way.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 29 mars 2010 - 09:32 .

[TJSolo]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Most of those are used to show how invalid "It is free don't complain" is.

All you've done is said "nu-uh", you have no made a single comprehensible point as to why people should be able to compare fake content to real life.

Hate to break it to you the content is not fake and real it is real enough to take up binary space on my real HDD. You should not confuse my use of the word "real" with "reality"

Modifié par TJSolo, 29 mars 2010 - 09:30 .

[TJSolo]

Bigeyez wrote...

TJSolo we are talking about videogame DLC here. THAT is why I'm basing my statements solely on videogame DLC, since it is what we are talking about.

You are confused then. The comparisons brought up are not comparisons of x to videogame content. The comparisons are x to an illogical statement "it is free don't complain".

[Bryy_Miller]

Bigeyez wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Dude, whatever happened to this?

Bigeyez wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Nobody is saying that free =/= opinions. They are saying free =/= BS Indignation.

Whoa whoa whoa, look at you being Mr reasonable. Didn't you get the memo that an enormous sense of entitlement, nerd raging, exaggerated claims, and BS Indignation are the only means of expression allowed on these forums?

Seems someone is a hypocritic.

Yup I totally go around these forums and use all of the above completely seriously and every single one of my posts. I don't use them in satire to point out how others are acting. I am deadly serious in all this discussions, because as we all know, the Internet is Serious Business. Mhm.

I love the ME forums. They are fun.

Edit: BTW I was agreeing with what you said if you didn't catch that.
Edit 2: And I'm totally not trying to rip on you so don't take this the wrong way.

Stop riipping on me, I'm totally taking this the wrong way.

TJSolo wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Most of those are used to show how invalid "It is free don't complain" is.

All you've done is said "nu-uh", you have no made a single comprehensible point as to why people should be able to compare fake content to real life.

Hate to break it to you the content is not fake and real it is real enough to take up binary space on my real HDD. You should not confuse my use of the word "real" with "reality"

Okay. So by using your logic, you're saying that the DLC is comparable to physical violence because it takes up space on your RAM stick?

[binaryemperor]

I wonder if the saying "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" is a fitting saying here...



I mean, I don't really mind the lack of extensive missions because it was free. I thought the experience was pretty fun. Ramming Collosi gave me a lot of nostagia.



If I had to pay for it I probably would have passed it up.