232 réponses à ce sujet

[JKoopman]

Qwepir wrote...

If you don't like it, don't play it, you ungrateful bastard. Bioware doesn't owe you anything.

Actually, yes they do. I paid them $60 USD when I purchased ME2. Part of the purchase agreement included access to the Cerberus Network and it's content. If the content provided by the Cerberus Network is not of sufficient quality, I have every right to complain about it.

More to the point, anyone who purchased ME2 second-hand or (for whatever reason, be it a spouse/sibling, etc) has mutliple accounts/gamertags on which the game is played had to purchase a $15 paid membership for the Cerberus Network and this "free" content and they are more than justified to complain about paying for obvious shovelware.

Any way you look at it, the "it's free" defense fails to stand up and apears to be nothing more than blatant BioWare ass-kissery. At the end of the day, the Firewalker pack failed to live up to most anyone's expectations by a wide margin and content of this poor quality should not be allowed to pass without comment, whether paid or not.

[Bigeyez]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...
LOOK AT ME GAIZ I BE TROLLIN FO SHO DAWG!

This is so going on my sig. I take back everything I said about this thread. It has given me so many laughs it just has to stay alive and keep going.

[phordicus]

it just occured to me that my theory that this was a bugtest/feedback attempt by BW for future paid DLC with the HH, they might actually decide to be total badasses and release thick and juicy HH content later on... for free. is there no way that's possible? am i a naive optimist?

[TJSolo]

phordicus wrote...

it just occured to me that my theory that this was a bugtest/feedback attempt by BW for future paid DLC with the HH, they might actually decide to be total badasses and release thick and juicy HH content later on... for free. is there no way that's possible? am i a naive optimist?

Yes, you are thinking a bit optimistically. By adding in the for free part. None of the free content so far, there is a lot of it, has been thick or juicy. The free CN content is shallow and appears to follow a frugal mentality in terms of substance.

Maybe those questions were best left as unanswered rhetoricals, oh well.

[Bryy_Miller]

TJSolo wrote...

HypesterHypester wrote...

It's one thing to complain about the DLC not being entertaining.

But when you are insulted, or feel you were treated unjustly because of the quality of the DLC, that's when you deserve a "It's free, shaddap." Remark. The moment you compare getting free gaming you don't like to a slap in the face, you don't really have anything to say worth listening to.

If only that actual comparison happened.

TJSolo wrote...

A slap in the face is free as well. 

But now you'll most likely insult my intelligence by saying "I didn't mean literally".

[EternalWolfe]

phordicus wrote...

it just occured to me that my theory that this was a bugtest/feedback attempt by BW for future paid DLC with the HH, they might actually decide to be total badasses and release thick and juicy HH content later on... for free. is there no way that's possible? am i a naive optimist?

You are a naive optimist - but go ahead, it'd be awesome.  I think the rest of us have 'cautious optimism', 'light pesimism', and 'without hope' down.

[Bryy_Miller]

Bigeyez wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Bigeyez wrote...
LOOK AT ME GAIZ I BE TROLLIN FO SHO DAWG!

This is so going on my sig. I take back everything I said about this thread. It has given me so many laughs it just has to stay alive and keep going.

When I was Admin for a gaming forum, a guy once wrote "I bet he smilws as he locks threads". That became my new sig. It either pissed the hell out of people or confused the hell out of people. 

[Bigeyez]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

HypesterHypester wrote...

It's one thing to complain about the DLC not being entertaining.

But when you are insulted, or feel you were treated unjustly because of the quality of the DLC, that's when you deserve a "It's free, shaddap." Remark. The moment you compare getting free gaming you don't like to a slap in the face, you don't really have anything to say worth listening to.

If only that actual comparison happened.

TJSolo wrote...

A slap in the face is free as well. 

But now you'll most likely insult my intelligence by saying "I didn't mean literally".

You totally just faked that quote. He would never make that type of comparison!

[Masticetobbacco]

MassFrost wrote...

It was free, quit crying.

actually cerberus network costs $15

else you would have paid $40 for mass effect 2 and not what you paid instead

[Bryy_Miller]

I used my hacking.

[Bryy_Miller]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

It was free, quit crying.

actually cerberus network costs $15

else you would have paid $40 for mass effect 2 and not what you paid instead

I did pay $40 for ME2. Lots of others did, too.

[TJSolo]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

HypesterHypester wrote...

It's one thing to complain about the DLC not being entertaining.

But when you are insulted, or feel you were treated unjustly because of the quality of the DLC, that's when you deserve a "It's free, shaddap." Remark. The moment you compare getting free gaming you don't like to a slap in the face, you don't really have anything to say worth listening to.

If only that actual comparison happened.

TJSolo wrote...

A slap in the face is free as well. 

But now you'll most likely insult my intelligence by saying "I didn't mean literally".

A situation to prove the ignorance of "it is free don't complain" mentality not a comparison to the DLC. I am not the one insulting your inteligence if you say you are unable to see the difference.

[Masticetobbacco]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

MassFrost wrote...

It was free, quit crying.

actually cerberus network costs $15

else you would have paid $40 for mass effect 2 and not what you paid instead

I did pay $40 for ME2. Lots of others did, too.

for a second hand copy?

many people are forgetting that the cerberus network is part of paying for the total game cost

DLCs are definitely not "Free" you have simply already paid for them

[Bryy_Miller]

TJSolo wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

HypesterHypester wrote...

It's one thing to complain about the DLC not being entertaining.

But when you are insulted, or feel you were treated unjustly because of the quality of the DLC, that's when you deserve a "It's free, shaddap." Remark. The moment you compare getting free gaming you don't like to a slap in the face, you don't really have anything to say worth listening to.

If only that actual comparison happened.

TJSolo wrote...

A slap in the face is free as well. 

But now you'll most likely insult my intelligence by saying "I didn't mean literally".

A situation to prove the ignorance of "it is free don't complain" mentality not a comparison to the DLC. I am not the one insulting your inteligence if you say you are unable to see the difference.

Don't you understand that in this context, Example A is Example B?

I like how you called me an idiot by not calling an idiot. Very classy.

[TJSolo]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Don't you understand that in this context, Example A is Example B?
I like how you called me an idiot by not calling an idiot. Very classy.

You are being ever so misleading as what I stated and the Firewalker DLC were never compared that way, the two are independent examples of free things. My example was weighed against the statement "It is free don't complain" to prove it wrong. Could I have used a different example? Less violent? Yarp but I didn't and the results would still be the same: "It is free don't complain" would still be concluded to be wrong.
I didn't bring up your intelligence, you did.
I didn't call you an idiot and I am growing tired of your accusations and crap premises.

[Masticetobbacco]

they are NOT fcking free



you paid $15 for it, or you paid for a mass effect 2 copy without the cerberus network, which in that case you DONT have the DLC pack. People who actually paid for new copies deserve to be pissed off

[Bryy_Miller]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

you paid $15 for it, or you paid for a mass effect 2 copy without the cerberus network, which in that case you DONT have the DLC pack. People who actually paid for new copies deserve to be pissed off

Even if that was true, how do you know that's what the extra money was for?

[TJSolo]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

they are NOT fcking free

you paid $15 for it, or you paid for a mass effect 2 copy without the cerberus network, which in that case you DONT have the DLC pack. People who actually paid for new copies deserve to be pissed off

This I know. It is not free. CN is included with the purchase of ME2. CN has a cost of 1200 points.
Trying to explain that to people that think it is free because they got it free is a pain in the ass. Kind of like trying to explain anything on this forum.

[Bigeyez]

TJSolo wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

they are NOT fcking free

you paid $15 for it, or you paid for a mass effect 2 copy without the cerberus network, which in that case you DONT have the DLC pack. People who actually paid for new copies deserve to be pissed off

This I know. It is not free. CN is included with the purchase of ME2. CN has a cost of 1200 points.
Trying to explain that to people that think it is free because they got it free is a pain in the ass. Kind of like trying to explain anything on this forum.

We would have been charged $60 for the game regardless of whether or not this DLC was included. Bioware/EA weren't going to knock down the price $15 if the DLC wasn't included, therefore yes it is "Free". Thats the same concept behind any products that are sold as "free" offers, be it buy one get one free drinks at 7-Eleven to clothing sales, to whatever. The point is that the company selling the product is selling you their product and throwing in something else for the same price point the single product is being sold for.

To use the 7-Eleven example, say a cup of coffee cost $2. In order to drive up business 7-Eleven offers a deal where if you buy one new cup of coffee for $2 you get a "free" coffee cup sleeve at no additional cost. Sure the $2 you already spent will probably cover the cost of that coffee cup sleeve anyways, (because 7-11 wouldn't lose money over a deal incentive) but because you get something you wouldn't normally get with the regular purchase of that $2 coffee, the sleave is indeed "free". If you don't buy a new cup of coffee you don't get the sleave.

But it's ok I know simple concepts like that are hard for you to grasp.

"What about the people who bought it used and have to pay $15 for it! See that shows you have to pay for it!!" Is what you will probably say. Well of course they have to pay for it, they didn't agree to the terms of the deal incentive and therefore don't get the extra bonus.

To go back to a 7-Eleven example. the normal price for a 2-liter soda is $1.50. Lets say the store is doing a deal that says if you buy 2, 2-liter Cokes you get them for $2 plus tax. Now if I look at that deal and pick up a single bottle of soda and take it to the counter I shouldn't expect to get the discount. The single 2-liter will still cost me $1.50 because I am not meeting the terms required to get the discount/incentive. I can't say "Hey I should get this for $1 because right there I can see people are buying 2 of them for $2".

The terms of the "free DLC" incentive were that you had to buy the game brand new. If you bought the game used, you didn't agree to and meet those terms so you have to pay for the DLC, just like I would have to pay $1.50 for that soda if I tried to buy one instead of two like the deal was for. It's a simple concept thats used by companies in every field of business. Now whether you argee that an incentive deal like this is fair or not is completely subjective and at least you would have a valid complaint if you argued that. Many people do in fact complain about these types of incentives in other industries.

But of course I already know you're going to quote me and say something along the lines of "nuh-uh your wrong, gibberish gibberish gibberish"

Modifié par Bigeyez, 30 mars 2010 - 03:13 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Getting a "free" subscription is still free, ****. It's not just a helmet or something useless like that it's a service that is going to keep pumping out content throughout the next year or two. that's called a value offer. I mean as long as you don't pirate the game or try to get it used then you're okay, and honestly the used market is kind of a load of crap. i can't get these ****ing stickers off my used ebgames mario galaxy box STILL.


Basically what I'm saying is that a SERVICE is a VALUABLE OFFER.  it's not a product it's a continued supported stream of goodie goodie gumdrops.  That'd be like if you went to 7-eleven and they offered you 8 dollars instead of 5 for a slurpee cup that could get free refills all year long.  Why WOULDNT you get the slurpee durpee?  durpee?

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 30 mars 2010 - 03:19 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

they are NOT fcking free

you paid $15 for it, or you paid for a mass effect 2 copy without the cerberus network, which in that case you DONT have the DLC pack. People who actually paid for new copies deserve to be pissed off

Why should I be pissed off exactly?  So far the CN has had decent output, the Firewalker pack was fine for a demo.  The only reason I would be pissed off is if ME 2 was like the Orange Box and I was promised all five games but instead I got only 4 and TF2 was broken.  Oh wait, thats right it was and I still had a good time >:|  (PC/360 player of Orange Box btw, have it on 360 but TF2 broken means I get that **** on PC... when it was 2 bucks anyway)

Granted TF2 didn't require Online Authentication, but for the most part you had to be online to play it.  Also you got it if you bought a used copy but whatever.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 30 mars 2010 - 03:22 .

[geekeffect]

Sorry to say I subscribe the OP's point of view.

I consider myself a huge Mass Effect 1 + 2 fan but the issue here is that despite the Mako's shortcomings, it's usefulness in terms of gameplay perception had to do with the incredible sense of open exploration that came from visiting secondary planets. Now I actually appreciate and agree with BioWare's direction as they decided to make Mass Effect 2 more story driven. ME2 is much more focused, but lost that sense of exploration that something like the Mako provided, and that's where the HammerHead could bring something new. Unfortunately, it fails miserably at that.

As a Mass Effect fan, what really scares me is what this represents regarding BioWare's vision for the future of the series. The HammerHead is so arcadey in it's concept, so unlike the grandeur of the Mass Effect universe, that I refuse to accept it as a part of my Mass Effect 2 experience. Hopefully, BioWare will learn from its mistakes as it develops the final chapter of the trilogy.

[edit: correcting format errors]

Modifié par geekeffect, 30 mars 2010 - 03:30 .

[JKoopman]

Bigeyez wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

they are NOT fcking free

you paid $15 for it, or you paid for a mass effect 2 copy without the cerberus network, which in that case you DONT have the DLC pack. People who actually paid for new copies deserve to be pissed off

This I know. It is not free. CN is included with the purchase of ME2. CN has a cost of 1200 points.
Trying to explain that to people that think it is free because they got it free is a pain in the ass. Kind of like trying to explain anything on this forum.

We would have been charged $60 for the game regardless of whether or not this DLC was included. Bioware/EA weren't going to knock down the price $15 if the DLC wasn't included, therefore yes it is "Free". Thats the same concept behind any products that are sold as "free" offers, be it buy one get one free drinks at 7-Eleven to clothing sales, to whatever. The point is that the company selling the product is selling you their product and throwing in something else for the same price point the single product is being sold for.

To use the 7-Eleven example, say a cup of coffee cost $2. In order to drive up business 7-Eleven offers a deal where if you buy one new cup of coffee for $2 you get a "free" coffee cup sleeve at no additional cost. Sure the $2 you already spent will probably cover the cost of that coffee cup sleeve anyways, (because 7-11 wouldn't lose money over a deal incentive) but because you get something you wouldn't normally get with the regular purchase of that $2 coffee, the sleave is indeed "free". If you don't buy a new cup of coffee you don't get the sleave.

But it's ok I know simple concepts like that are hard for you to grasp.

"What about the people who bought it used and have to pay $15 for it! See that shows you have to pay for it!!" Is what you will probably say. Well of course they have to pay for it, they didn't agree to the terms of the deal incentive and therefore don't get the extra bonus.

To go back to a 7-Eleven example. the normal price for a 2-liter soda is $1.50. Lets say the store is doing a deal that says if you buy 2, 2-liter Cokes you get them for $2 plus tax. Now if I look at that deal and pick up a single bottle of soda and take it to the counter I shouldn't expect to get the discount. The single 2-liter will still cost me $1.50 because I am not meeting the terms required to get the discount/incentive. I can't say "Hey I should get this for $1 because right there I can see people are buying 2 of them for $2".

The terms of the "free DLC" incentive were that you had to buy the game brand new. If you bought the game used, you didn't agree to and meet those terms so you have to pay for the DLC, just like I would have to pay $1.50 for that soda if I tried to buy one instead of two like the deal was for. It's a simple concept thats used by companies in every field of business. Now whether you argee that an incentive deal like this is fair or not is completely subjective and at least you would have a valid complaint if you argued that. Many people do in fact complain about these types of incentives in other industries.

But of course I already know you're going to quote me and say something along the lines of "nuh-uh your wrong, gibberish gibberish gibberish"

Nice analogy. A bit lacking on the relevant issues though. Lemme see what I can do...

Okay, using your "coffee cup sleeve" example, let's say you walk into the aforementioned 7-Eleven and notice the advertisements for a free coffee cup holder with every new purchase of a cup of coffee. Enticed, you buy a cup of coffee and the clerk hands you your "free" coffee cup holder. You notice that it seems to be made out of old newspaper held together with paperclips and as you slide it onto your cup and attempt to take a sip it tears and spills hot coffee in your lap. You complain to the clerk that the coffee cup holder is poorly made and doesn't function as advertised and he tells you "Yeah brah, but it's free so like... you can't complain."

Or, to modify another of your examples, let's say you walk into the 7-Eleven intending to pick up some Pepsi and notice a coupon promotion for a Buy 1 Get One FREE deal where you buy a 20 oz bottle of Pepsi and you get a free 20 oz bottle of "New Pepsi Drink" along with it. You don't have a coupon but you're curious about the new beverage as the signage advertises it as great tasting and refreshing, so you decide to pick one up along with your Pepsi purchase. Since you lack the coupon, you pay full retail price for the bottle and upon opening it notice that it smells like sewage and tastes like ******. You remark to another customer that the drink is disgusting and he replies "Yeah, but you really can't complain 'cause at least it was free."

There, that's a little more relevant I think.

Modifié par JKoopman, 30 mars 2010 - 04:13 .

[PlatypusPal320]

After playing it today my 2 cents says - Free though it may be, even the Normandy Crash Site was more entertaining...

[Bigeyez]

JKoopman wrote...

Nice analogy. A bit lacking on the relevant issues though. Lemme see what I can do...

Okay, using your "coffee cup sleeve" example, let's say you walk into the aforementioned 7-Eleven and notice the advertisements for a free coffee cup holder with every new purchase of a cup of coffee. Enticed, you buy a cup of coffee and the clerk hands you your "free" coffee cup holder. You notice that it seems to be made out of old newspaper held together with paperclips and as you slide it onto your cup and attempt to take a sip it tears and spills hot coffee in your lap. You complain to the clerk that the coffee cup holder is poorly built and doesn't function as advertised and he tells you "Yeah brah, but it's free so like... you can't complain."

Or, to modify another of your examples, let's say you walk into the 7-Eleven intending to pick up some Pepsi and notice a coupon promotion for a Buy 1 Get One FREE deal where you buy a 2 liter bottle of Pepsi and you get a free 2 liter bottle of "New Pepsi Drink" along with it. You don't have a coupon but you're curious about the new beverage as the signage advertises it as great tasting and refreshing, so you decide to pick one up along with your Pepsi purchase. Since you lack the coupon, you pay full retail price for the bottle and upon opening it notice that it smells like sewage and tastes like ******. You remark to another customer that the drink is disgusting and he replies "Yeah, but you really can't complain 'cause at least it was free."

There, that's a little more relevant I think.

Good job for replying to something I wasn't saying at all in my analogy! TJ and the other poster are saying the DLC wasn't free, my analogy is showing them that it is indeed "free". Thats it. It has nothing to do with you not being able to complain. I've already said you have all the right in the world to complain about it, just like you could complain about getting a cup sleeve thats made of newspaper and paper clips or some funky drink.

What I'm against is the degree to which its being taken, (comparing it to Bioware taking a **** on you like people have said here) not that it's being complained about. You can definitely argue over whether you think the deal was worth it or not. If you think the DLC was crap you are indeed well within your right to say it was crap. If you get a paperclip/newspaper cup sleeve you can sure as hell call it a crappy incentive. I don't think you'd walk up to the counter and tell the guy behind it that he basically just crapped all over you face though. THATS where I disagree with TJ and the other people who posted things like he did.

Soooo yeah...your analogies work and I don't disagree with them, but thats not at all what I was saying in that post.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 30 mars 2010 - 04:21 .