58 réponses à ce sujet

[The Velveteen Rabbit]

Thank you all very much for your comments to my little rant! Much appreciated. <3

Modifié par The Velveteen Rabbit, 07 avril 2010 - 02:45 .

[SphereofSilence]

This time I hope Bioware give enough time to develop the next game into what it really deserves, not rushing it just to meet a certain dateline.

[Tajz]

Fact about Awakening
-The product is rushed out thus less of play time, ending, romance etc
-Lack of QA to eliminate bugs,ability balance, difficulty setup
-Overprice the package a bit compare to the play time
However
-It is fun, characters are well placed in the role/personality
I'm also bioware fanboy, but Awakening is too rushed out thus it deserved some critisim and bioware deserved to know the feedback of their own product.

Modifié par Tajz, 07 avril 2010 - 09:06 .

[Itxaro]

I liked the game, I enjoyed the story and the companions. But that does not mean that I don't see its defects. The worst one being the constant CTD that made impossible to use certain spells like mana clash for example. That really sucks ... big time.

[Murphys_Law]

The Velveteen Rabbit wrote...

I'm seeing a lot t of threads here regarding various aspects of people's disappointment with the recent expansion, and it makes me sad.

Now, before you stop reading, hear me out.

Whether it be that it's bugged, the characters are two dimentional, the conversation system sucks, there's no romance, or you miss your Starfang, oh and my favorite: "I want to play my dead Warden!". Please, I just want to say something.

Yes, we could go on about how Awakening wasn't what we expected and that it was rushed and they could have done so much more and even though it wouldn't be likely to change anything some of these threads are valid concerns and deserve to be addressed. I, too, feel the game was rushed and that it had the potential to be much more than it was, and had they taken more time on it, especially when dealing with such a fragile subject as what happens to our Wardens after the Blight is over when we all had such high hopes and were given months to build them up, that it would have been much more worthy of its name.

But we have to face facts, it's not the writers' fault: they weren't the only ones who decided when the expansion was to come out, if they had much of a say in it at all, and we must also remember that there is supposedly another game coming out in 2011. It's not anyone's fault really.

Personally, I think considering the amount of time that was given to create it, Awakening wasn't all that bad. It could have been better, and now it's in the hands of the modders.

All I am asking of you, good reader, is that you do not lose faith in Bioware because of this. Despite your disappointment, trust that they have taken from our (hopefully) constructive criticisms and learned from their mistakes. Feedback does make a huge difference, but it is also important to give credit where credit is due.

So, if I may ask, what is something you actually liked about Awakening? I don't think we have enough answers to that question floating around this forum. I just felt I needed to say something, feel free to flame me or what have you. If you think I'm wrong, that is your right, but please think before you say something you might regret: it is only a videogame, after all.

People criticize because they love the game.  Do not mistake it as anything else.  They want the game to be better and post their concerns for, hopefully, future titles.  If they didn't care about the game they would not bother to make a post on a internet forum.  They would have just stopped playing it and would probably never buy future content from that game if it was bad enough (and if it wasn't probably just keep it to themselves).  I have no idea why people get "sad", angry, defensive when people post negative feedback on a forum that was created, in part, to let customer's give feedback.  Positive feedback is useless for the most part because it serves no use but a pat on the back.  Yes people probably should put positives in their "reviews", but frankly on the land of tubes people do not like to write so they just quickly jot down their problems on a forum.  I don't think Bioware cries at night because their forums are negative in nature because, surprise, surprise, almost all customer feedback situations are negative in nature.  Please ignore trolls, Bioware flamers (i.e. people throwing around insults at a video game company lolol), and hysteria fueled doomsayers.  This is the internet, they exist in every forum.  Focus on the constructive criticism.  

See that makes perfect sense, customers that have issues and vent them.  However, what doesn't make any sense is people who make excuses for a video game company.  You said yourself that you thought it was "rushed" (which basically means it had a lot of problems).  Are you so blindly loyal that you are willing to give them a free pass?  Hell I own many Bioware games and love all of them, but I don't give them a free pass on anything.  Simply because I expect them to meet the standard that they have set.  If they don't meet it then I have to wonder what is happening.  My economic "spider sense" tells me that EA has a lot to do with it, remember it isn't just Bioware anymore.

[Mr.DriftingDreamer]

10 Things I love about Awakening:
1) Flicker!
2) The new Rogue talents
3) The new DW talents
4) new Wade stuff
5) Anders and Nate
6) The new specializations
7) The new armor and weapons (even though my favorite armor in the game is bugged, I still like the idea and look of the Blackblade Armor)
8) Having a sword called Dumat's Spine
9) Runes in armor
10) Crafting my own runes!
That's my top 10 list for Awakening.  I really do love this game and I'm glad BioWare decided to put it on PS3.  Dragon Age has become one of my favorite games.  I'm just getting frustrated by the bugs.  That said, it is still one of my favorites, even if I'm a bit upset with BioWare at the moment.

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Mr.DriftingDreamer wrote...

10 Things I love about Awakening:
1) Flicker!
2) The new Rogue talents
3) The new DW talents
4) new Wade stuff
5) Anders and Nate
6) The new specializations
7) The new armor and weapons (even though my favorite armor in the game is bugged, I still like the idea and look of the Blackblade Armor)
8) Having a sword called Dumat's Spine
9) Runes in armor
10) Crafting my own runes!
That's my top 10 list for Awakening.  I really do love this game and I'm glad BioWare decided to put it on PS3.  Dragon Age has become one of my favorite games.  I'm just getting frustrated by the bugs.  That said, it is still one of my favorites, even if I'm a bit upset with BioWare at the moment.

Yes those are the things i too enjoy in this expansion, i can add too that i liked the fact we can paint the crest we want on shields, nice touch.
Overall its an ok expansion, if it weren´t for the bugs and plot holes it was spot on.

Edit: Oh and i almost forgot about the kit to re-spec our skills/talents/points, also a very nice touch.

Modifié par MoonChildTheUnholy, 07 avril 2010 - 12:58 .

[CybAnt1]

Here's a theory I have. Just consider it if you will.



Game seems better balanced for an Orlesian warden. Game dialogue seems more 'natural' for an Orlesian warden. Orlesian warden avoids numerous bugs/issues, a lot revolving around things carried over from Origins (which an Orlesian doesn't do). No continuity problems with Orlesian warden.



Several people have said the expac title was probably originally written for an Orlesian Warden (new char) ONLY. But --- and here's what I'm starting to think. Someone at EA said: yeah, but we're afraid not enough Origins players will buy the expansion if they can't import/continue their first character. Rewrite the game so players can import. Then we have ka-ching!



I suspect this dictum came at a late stage in development; maybe late enough and close enough to the deadline that they just didn't have time to stitch this into the game properly.



Think about all the things this explains.



1) most of the bugs revolve around carrying over things from Origins.

2) lack of continuity arises because they only had to start writing continuity in at a late stage.

3) why the game is so ridiculously easy for an imported char.

4) why Oghren's approval starts at neutral - well, he wouldn't have known the Orlesian.

5) had to handwave the "dead Warden" issue because now having done this, they couldn't face the other legion of screaming fans who would complain they couldn't import their char because they didn't realize Morrigan was serious about the "if you don't do this you'll die" part.



Doesn't it seem to explain a lot of things?

[Tajz]

I did agree with you cybant1.

I think you have quite a valid theory lol.



Game is balance and less bugs if u start by orlesian warden. I think initially they planned not to touch the main story by creating the new ambience with few links. However they prolly have to add the import character option since it's quite mandatory for people to enjoy. They also disallow you to continue after beat the last boss, may be because they dont want your journey to impact the DA2? or they just plain lazy? dunno.

[Mr.DriftingDreamer]

CybAnt1 I think you have a good point there. My thing is what about those of us, like myself, not willing to die for the good of Fereldan? Those of us who took the deal and never looked back.

I think that BioWare always intended to allow you to import your character, I just don't think they counted on people being close to the level cap. Also, I think that an easy way for them to fix the dead Warden problem would to import all dead Wardens as new Orlesian Warden. That way players could keep their world choices, their levels and gear, and still be a martyr at the same time. But just thoughts.

[DoggyDaddyX]

CybAnt1 has an excellent point.



Overall I like DAA. Not sure if its more buggy than DAO, which continues to have a lot of bugs on console...though its somewhat understandable given the greater scope (of DAO over DAA).



After all is said and done, DAA is a dessert thats meant to tide us over to DAO2. Nothing more.

[7th_Phoenix]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Mr.DriftingDreamer wrote...

10 Things I love about Awakening:
1) Flicker!
2) The new Rogue talents
3) The new DW talents
4) new Wade stuff
5) Anders and Nate
6) The new specializations
7) The new armor and weapons (even though my favorite armor in the game is bugged, I still like the idea and look of the Blackblade Armor)
8) Having a sword called Dumat's Spine
9) Runes in armor
10) Crafting my own runes!
That's my top 10 list for Awakening.  I really do love this game and I'm glad BioWare decided to put it on PS3.  Dragon Age has become one of my favorite games.  I'm just getting frustrated by the bugs.  That said, it is still one of my favorites, even if I'm a bit upset with BioWare at the moment.

Yes those are the things i too enjoy in this expansion, i can add too that i liked the fact we can paint the crest we want on shields, nice touch.
Overall its an ok expansion, if it weren´t for the bugs and plot holes it was spot on.

Edit: Oh and i almost forgot about the kit to re-spec our skills/talents/points, also a very nice touch.

Wow... these were things I liked too. O_o

However, other than the bugs and glitches, I was disappointed that we couldn't have a meaningful conversation with our new companions... being able to connect with characters personally. I didn't feel that like when I played DA:O. I just felt like some commander with a bunch wardens I was put in charge of. But yes, I liked it... maybe not a whole a lot; the game just sort of felt... rushed. 

[Bassooner]

So, if I may ask, what is something you actually liked about Awakening?

I'll try to stay positive despite my anger over how game-breakingly buggy this game is ever since its release. I like how well my Awakenings CD works as a coaster.

[Nikatjef]

Greetings,

CybAnt1 wrote...
3) why the game is so ridiculously easy for an imported char.

   I agree with everything you said, except for this part.  As I have stated in a few threads, DA:A is still far too easy even as the Orlesian.   Further, leaving gear aside, the only real difference between the Orlesian at 18 and your imported character at 18 is that the Orlesian did not do the fade and get the extra 21 (22 pts?) and did not get any of the attribute / skill / talent books.   That could explain a little bit of difficulty disparities that I have seen, but not all of it.  The fact is that even as the Orlesian DA:A is still far too easy.

[BLunted]

The Velveteen Rabbit wrote...

I'm seeing a lot t of threads here regarding various aspects of people's disappointment with the recent expansion, and it makes me sad.

Now, before you stop reading, hear me out.

Whether it be that it's bugged, the characters are two dimentional, the conversation system sucks, there's no romance, or you miss your Starfang, oh and my favorite: "I want to play my dead Warden!". Please, I just want to say something.

Yes, we could go on about how Awakening wasn't what we expected and that it was rushed and they could have done so much more and even though it wouldn't be likely to change anything some of these threads are valid concerns and deserve to be addressed. I, too, feel the game was rushed and that it had the potential to be much more than it was, and had they taken more time on it, especially when dealing with such a fragile subject as what happens to our Wardens after the Blight is over when we all had such high hopes and were given months to build them up, that it would have been much more worthy of its name.

But we have to face facts, it's not the writers' fault: they weren't the only ones who decided when the expansion was to come out, if they had much of a say in it at all, and we must also remember that there is supposedly another game coming out in 2011. It's not anyone's fault really.

Personally, I think considering the amount of time that was given to create it, Awakening wasn't all that bad. It could have been better, and now it's in the hands of the modders.

All I am asking of you, good reader, is that you do not lose faith in Bioware because of this. Despite your disappointment, trust that they have taken from our (hopefully) constructive criticisms and learned from their mistakes. Feedback does make a huge difference, but it is also important to give credit where credit is due.

So, if I may ask, what is something you actually liked about Awakening? I don't think we have enough answers to that question floating around this forum. I just felt I needed to say something, feel free to flame me or what have you. If you think I'm wrong, that is your right, but please think before you say something you might regret: it is only a videogame, after all.

I am sorry but having faith is for religion, not for corporate entities that produce video games. I apologize if I seem combative, but why should I have faith that Bioware? Origins was a great game, but bugs have gone largely unanswered for 5 months.

Now we have Awakening, which is not only a poor product by the standards that Origins has set, but it is riddled with bugs as well. I can assure you, if I could have returned it, I would have. And then we have the feastday combo-pack(AKA Horse armor). The signs are right in front of you as to where the franchise is going.

If I had any faith in Bio, it has evapourated. It is not up to me to give them a chance, but up to them to redeem themselves.

[silksieve]

I have to give some design kudos to Awakening. The art design was fantastic, in some places, better than the original, I thought. Many of the locations and sceneries were gorgeous; I especially appreciated the locales involving water. I also really liked the hilly nature of the Wending Woods; it could be a bit confusing at times, but it felt very real and organic.



The character animations were also terrific, both for NPCs and the PC. They were a lot more natural, and seemed to have a greater range and variety of movement. Facial expressions were also better.



Also, I thought the level designs were pretty great. I liked that there were more puzzles in the levels, and the fact that while they weren't too difficult, they were just *there*, and you had to figure out how they worked. (The fact that they were an option and not an impediment to your progress was also a plus.) And yes, some of the quests like the silverite mine were buggy as hell, but the *concept* of having to get your stuff back piecemeal is pretty awesome. The Fade portion in Blackmarsh was also pretty great for its narrative strength, and I liked that things you did there (like defeating the desire demons) had a material effect in the real world.

[ICek81]

If they wont fix those all bugs i want buy any new game from them.

[Wishpig]

Yrkoon wrote...

Seriously,   I,  Yrkoon,  as a card carrying member of the "this game sucks" whiner's club, am happy that you enjoyed it and saw it as a great expansion.  I wish I  could feel the same.

But to address one of your points.  I  have already lost SOME faith in Bioware.... but only some.   A small amount.  In DA:O terminology,    I'd say that over the last decade, Bioware gave me enough "gifts" to  get my approval up to 100 (love).   But Awakening  brought it down to 80 (adore).  If they put out another game like Awakening, they risk
 further disapproval...  perhaps dropping my approval down to  "care",  "interested", or, heaven forbid... "neutral"


That all said, I did like the new skills and talents in Awakening. especially the new warrior skills.  But that is all.

Ha, love the analogy. We should create an official bioware approval meter. Everyone can + or - up to five points.

[Mr.DriftingDreamer]

Its funny that overall the concensus seems to be (for the majority not for all) that Awakening was acctually very well recieved by the comunity as a whole. Some had minor issues with stuff here and there, but all in all people seemed to like it. Ok so you didn't like the Phoenix Down that BW gave your PC, or you don't like Ogren (me), or the new covo system. But for the most part it seems people had there one issue with it but liked most everything else. That being said, most of the negative feedback I have seen has not been about the game itself but the bugs within it, and BioWare's apparent lack of concern for the bugs. I say "lack of concern" because there are bugs from Origins that have yet to be addressed. I think the game would be getting much better feedback if the bugs were either fixed or never there to begin with. Not saying I have no more faith in BioWare, cause I do, I just wish it didn't seem like EA was raping them corperately.

[jenncgf]

Mr.DriftingDreamer wrote...

10 Things I love about Awakening:
1) Flicker!
2) The new Rogue talents
3) The new DW talents
4) new Wade stuff
5) Anders and Nate
6) The new specializations
7) The new armor and weapons (even though my favorite armor in the game is bugged, I still like the idea and look of the Blackblade Armor)
8) Having a sword called Dumat's Spine
9) Runes in armor
10) Crafting my own runes!
That's my top 10 list for Awakening.  I really do love this game and I'm glad BioWare decided to put it on PS3.  Dragon Age has become one of my favorite games.  I'm just getting frustrated by the bugs.  That said, it is still one of my favorites, even if I'm a bit upset with BioWare at the moment.

1-5, I'm with you 100%.  I really really really hope to see Anders and Nate in future content and would love to get more in-depth with them.  They're great personalities with a lot of story potential.

The rogue DW stuff (yay flicker!) rawks.  Just rawks.  And I rain of arrows too. 

[DhammaWings]

Mainly I liked Awakening for the simple reason that it provided more Dragon Age play-time. That said, I'm back to playing Origins because Awakening is too much of a dead-end for me.

[demongirl420]

she awoke me watchhttp://social.bioware.com/brc/967354

[Gunny5821]

The Velveteen Rabbit wrote...

I'm seeing a lot t of threads here regarding various aspects of people's disappointment with the recent expansion, and it makes me sad.

Now, before you stop reading, hear me out.

Whether it be that it's bugged, the characters are two dimentional, the conversation system sucks, there's no romance, or you miss your Starfang, oh and my favorite: "I want to play my dead Warden!". Please, I just want to say something.

Yes, we could go on about how Awakening wasn't what we expected and that it was rushed and they could have done so much more and even though it wouldn't be likely to change anything some of these threads are valid concerns and deserve to be addressed. I, too, feel the game was rushed and that it had the potential to be much more than it was, and had they taken more time on it, especially when dealing with such a fragile subject as what happens to our Wardens after the Blight is over when we all had such high hopes and were given months to build them up, that it would have been much more worthy of its name.

But we have to face facts, it's not the writers' fault: they weren't the only ones who decided when the expansion was to come out, if they had much of a say in it at all, and we must also remember that there is supposedly another game coming out in 2011. It's not anyone's fault really.

Personally, I think considering the amount of time that was given to create it, Awakening wasn't all that bad. It could have been better, and now it's in the hands of the modders.

All I am asking of you, good reader, is that you do not lose faith in Bioware because of this. Despite your disappointment, trust that they have taken from our (hopefully) constructive criticisms and learned from their mistakes. Feedback does make a huge difference, but it is also important to give credit where credit is due.

So, if I may ask, what is something you actually liked about Awakening? I don't think we have enough answers to that question floating around this forum. I just felt I needed to say something, feel free to flame me or what have you. If you think I'm wrong, that is your right, but please think before you say something you might regret: it is only a videogame, after all.

Well  said, I couldn't have worded it better!  I agree with your points on negative feedback and the lack of positive feedback.  Thank You for taking the time of reflection for the masses that don't complain, well much, LOL!

Gunny

[SamboScoots]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Here's a theory I have. Just consider it if you will.

Game seems better balanced for an Orlesian warden. Game dialogue seems more 'natural' for an Orlesian warden. Orlesian warden avoids numerous bugs/issues, a lot revolving around things carried over from Origins (which an Orlesian doesn't do). No continuity problems with Orlesian warden.

Several people have said the expac title was probably originally written for an Orlesian Warden (new char) ONLY. But --- and here's what I'm starting to think. Someone at EA said: yeah, but we're afraid not enough Origins players will buy the expansion if they can't import/continue their first character. Rewrite the game so players can import. Then we have ka-ching!

I suspect this dictum came at a late stage in development; maybe late enough and close enough to the deadline that they just didn't have time to stitch this into the game properly.

Think about all the things this explains.

1) most of the bugs revolve around carrying over things from Origins.
2) lack of continuity arises because they only had to start writing continuity in at a late stage.
3) why the game is so ridiculously easy for an imported char.
4) why Oghren's approval starts at neutral - well, he wouldn't have known the Orlesian.
5) had to handwave the "dead Warden" issue because now having done this, they couldn't face the other legion of screaming fans who would complain they couldn't import their char because they didn't realize Morrigan was serious about the "if you don't do this you'll die" part.

Doesn't it seem to explain a lot of things?

I think you nailed it, save for the easy part. I'm tanking as a new Orlesian and it is really easy compared to Origins.

Now, I haven't finished my first Orlesian playthrough, but already I can tell I am not running into nearly the number of issues that people with imported characters have been complaining about. So far I've only run into visual bugs, albeit a lot of visual bugs. Those visual bugs, however, fit your "rush to allow imported characters" theory.

[The Velveteen Rabbit]

Murphys_Law wrote...

The Velveteen Rabbit wrote...

I'm seeing a lot t of threads here regarding various aspects of people's disappointment with the recent expansion, and it makes me sad.

Now, before you stop reading, hear me out.

Whether it be that it's bugged, the characters are two dimentional, the conversation system sucks, there's no romance, or you miss your Starfang, oh and my favorite: "I want to play my dead Warden!". Please, I just want to say something.

Yes, we could go on about how Awakening wasn't what we expected and that it was rushed and they could have done so much more and even though it wouldn't be likely to change anything some of these threads are valid concerns and deserve to be addressed. I, too, feel the game was rushed and that it had the potential to be much more than it was, and had they taken more time on it, especially when dealing with such a fragile subject as what happens to our Wardens after the Blight is over when we all had such high hopes and were given months to build them up, that it would have been much more worthy of its name.

But we have to face facts, it's not the writers' fault: they weren't the only ones who decided when the expansion was to come out, if they had much of a say in it at all, and we must also remember that there is supposedly another game coming out in 2011. It's not anyone's fault really.

Personally, I think considering the amount of time that was given to create it, Awakening wasn't all that bad. It could have been better, and now it's in the hands of the modders.

All I am asking of you, good reader, is that you do not lose faith in Bioware because of this. Despite your disappointment, trust that they have taken from our (hopefully) constructive criticisms and learned from their mistakes. Feedback does make a huge difference, but it is also important to give credit where credit is due.

So, if I may ask, what is something you actually liked about Awakening? I don't think we have enough answers to that question floating around this forum. I just felt I needed to say something, feel free to flame me or what have you. If you think I'm wrong, that is your right, but please think before you say something you might regret: it is only a videogame, after all.

People criticize because they love the game.  Do not mistake it as anything else.  They want the game to be better and post their concerns for, hopefully, future titles.  If they didn't care about the game they would not bother to make a post on a internet forum.  They would have just stopped playing it and would probably never buy future content from that game if it was bad enough (and if it wasn't probably just keep it to themselves).  I have no idea why people get "sad", angry, defensive when people post negative feedback on a forum that was created, in part, to let customer's give feedback.  Positive feedback is useless for the most part because it serves no use but a pat on the back.  Yes people probably should put positives in their "reviews", but frankly on the land of tubes people do not like to write so they just quickly jot down their problems on a forum.  I don't think Bioware cries at night because their forums are negative in nature because, surprise, surprise, almost all customer feedback situations are negative in nature.  Please ignore trolls, Bioware flamers (i.e. people throwing around insults at a video game company lolol), and hysteria fueled doomsayers.  This is the internet, they exist in every forum.  Focus on the constructive criticism.  

See that makes perfect sense, customers that have issues and vent them.  However, what doesn't make any sense is people who make excuses for a video game company.  You said yourself that you thought it was "rushed" (which basically means it had a lot of problems).  Are you so blindly loyal that you are willing to give them a free pass?  Hell I own many Bioware games and love all of them, but I don't give them a free pass on anything.  Simply because I expect them to meet the standard that they have set.  If they don't meet it then I have to wonder what is happening.  My economic "spider sense" tells me that EA has a lot to do with it, remember it isn't just Bioware anymore.

Huh, I suppose I hadn't thought of it that way. You've given me a lot to think about, and you're right about EA too, that is troubling. Thank you.

Modifié par The Velveteen Rabbit, 08 avril 2010 - 05:47 .