468 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
This is also all happening prior to the Reaper threat being known to anyone but those surrounding Shepard or the Council.  At this point Cerberus isn't working to stop them...

This is exactly why the whole Kahoku business is irrelevant. Ever since TIM knew about the Reapers, and has been working to stop them. R.I.P., Kahoku. And remember, "natural causes"...

Natural causes, my ass.  We saw the needle mark when we found his body inside the containment cell holding their test subjects. 

N A T U R A L   C A U S E S   .

End of story An entertainment news: Francis Kitt announced...

/ME1

Everything you hear on the news is canon! Or else you couldn't be able to even bring up those Hitler/Stalin soiled trumps from your sleeve.

And no, again. I am not being a comedian or a troll here. Ironic and sarcastic - very often, but not just for the sake of it.

Half of history is hiding the truth.  I used the Nuremberg example as why the 'just following orders' isn't a valid excuse.  I did not, at any time, cite Hitler or Stalin as examples. 

We found Kahoku's body, the 'news media' made up or were fed a made up story to tell the public.  No where did I ever say I trusted the words of the news media or the government as fact.  We were there, we found the body, we know for a *fact* that he was murdered.

[CmdrFenix83]

Nightwriter wrote...
Hey, I disagree with him completely, and his hope of winning his arguments is futile, but... about funny...

Have you seen his Cerberus is building an army thread?

I did.  I didn't laugh.  Then again, even as a cat person(I have two), I've never found the lolcats stuff to be funny.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
I did not, at any time, cite Hitler or Stalin as examples. 

Maybe that's why I'm still talking to you, because I can't stand people who do, for long. The irony is, they usually don't have much else to say, other that the person not buying their analogy is a moron.

As to the "natural causes", there is a sarcasm there in my post. Though the situation is quite clear that Cerberus executed Kahoku by a poisonous injection, and the news were made up, to me this whole situation when a person gets killed while messing with a black ops organisation seems quite natural. So the news item is not entirely inaccurate, in my books. And you know that I'm toying with the idea, that the in-game fictional people that make up the news may be seeing it this way too.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 31 mars 2010 - 10:30 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
I did not, at any time, cite Hitler or Stalin as examples. 

Maybe that's why I'm still talking to you, because I can't stand people who do, for long. The irony is, they usually don't have much else to say, other that the person not buying their analogy is a moron.

As to the "natural causes", there is a sarcasm there in my post. Though the situation is quite clear that Cerberus executed Kahoku by a poisonous injection, and the news were made up, to me this whole situation when a person gets killed while messing with a black ops organisation seems quite natural. So the news item is not entirely inaccurate, in my books. And you know that I'm toying with the idea, that the in-game fictional people that make up the news may be seeing it this way too.

Well, I suppose I can see your clever 'play on words' there(did I just compliment you?  gorram it...), but I still wouldn't go so far as to state that he *deserved* what happened to him.  A casualty of a secret war, certainly, but not deserved.  I still maintain my point that there is zero evidence to support that Cerberus is still a part of the Alliance, merely a suspicion on your part.  Everything we're given in-game or the books points at them being a terrorist organization. 

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

[Nightwriter]

Fact is, I cannot be sure whether Cerberus is part of the Alliance or not. It doesn't really matter.

If they are part of the Alliance, I do not think they are a part that's sanctioned or even known about by men like Anderson or Hackett, who I consider to be THE ALLIANCE.

The truth is, it doesn't matter. I can only judge Cerberus by their actions.

And since I know that TIM makes those decisions, and controls those actions, I know that he and his organization are corrupt, period. To some extent, they ARE an independent organization.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

Hmmm... You just gave me a thought: living in America must be funny. Perhaps, I should try it at some point of my life. I'm not sure I'd last long there... Can I insure myself against going to jail there?

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

Hmmm... You just gave me a thought: living in America must be funny. Perhaps, I should try it at some point of my life. I'm not sure I'd last long there... Can I insure myself against going to jail there?

Heh, sure you can, if you can get diplomatic immunity.  I don't find it very funny living here though.  We've got a government run by people bought by corporations, and people elected by sheep that jump at the first politician that says something they like.(Or in Obama's case, even if they never heard a word from him, they would have voted for him simply because he's not another old, white guy.)

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 31 mars 2010 - 11:18 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Zulu, Cerberus is simply a necessary evil.

The fact of their necessity does not make them good.

What makes anything 'good' or 'bad'?

What's "truth", man, what's the friggin' "truth"?!

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Zulu, Cerberus is simply a necessary evil.

The fact of their necessity does not make them good.

What makes anything 'good' or 'bad'?

I have to say sex

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Zulu, Cerberus is simply a necessary evil.

The fact of their necessity does not make them good.

What makes anything 'good' or 'bad'?

That is another discussion, don't you think?

But it is certainly not necessity.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

Hmmm... You just gave me a thought: living in America must be funny. Perhaps, I should try it at some point of my life. I'm not sure I'd last long there... Can I insure myself against going to jail there?

Heh, sure you can, if you can get diplomatic immunity.  I don't find it very funny living here though.  We've got a covernment run by people bought by corporations, and people elected by sheep that jump at the first politician that says something they like.(Or in Obama's case, even if they never heard a word for him, they would have voted for him simply because he's not another old, white guy.)

I was more of thinking about possibility to earn some money by going to jail, if it comes to that.

And the socio-political situation you described is inevitable in a big country, unless you want a Stalin or a Hitler... Ooops!

Now I am trapped in my own net... Serves me right! That's what you get for going off-topic!

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Zulu, Cerberus is simply a necessary evil.

The fact of their necessity does not make them good.

What makes anything 'good' or 'bad'?

I have to say sex

You sure wanted to say that in response to my question!

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

Hmmm... You just gave me a thought: living in America must be funny. Perhaps, I should try it at some point of my life. I'm not sure I'd last long there... Can I insure myself against going to jail there?

Heh, sure you can, if you can get diplomatic immunity.  I don't find it very funny living here though.  We've got a covernment run by people bought by corporations, and people elected by sheep that jump at the first politician that says something they like.(Or in Obama's case, even if they never heard a word for him, they would have voted for him simply because he's not another old, white guy.)

I was more of thinking about possibility to earn some money by going to jail, if it comes to that.

And the socio-political situation you described is inevitable in a big country, unless you want a Stalin or a Hitler... Ooops!

Now I am trapped in my own net... Serves me right! That's what you get for going off-topic!

Well an Autocracy is ideal... if said leader is a wise, benevolant individual.  Sadly, it doesn't work that way in practice.  There are no 'King Arther' type leaders around to turn everything into the fabled Camelot.  Communism, as well, works beautifully *in theory*, but just doesn't work out in practice.  Unfortunately, our current 'sheep electing corrupt politicians' seems to work out the best of the bad ideas that have been institued thus far.

[Sajuro]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

Hmmm... You just gave me a thought: living in America must be funny. Perhaps, I should try it at some point of my life. I'm not sure I'd last long there... Can I insure myself against going to jail there?

Heh, sure you can, if you can get diplomatic immunity.  I don't find it very funny living here though.  We've got a covernment run by people bought by corporations, and people elected by sheep that jump at the first politician that says something they like.(Or in Obama's case, even if they never heard a word for him, they would have voted for him simply because he's not another old, white guy.)

I was more of thinking about possibility to earn some money by going to jail, if it comes to that.

And the socio-political situation you described is inevitable in a big country, unless you want a Stalin or a Hitler... Ooops!

Now I am trapped in my own net... Serves me right! That's what you get for going off-topic!

Well an Autocracy is ideal... if said leader is a wise, benevolant individual.  Sadly, it doesn't work that way in practice.  There are no 'King Arther' type leaders around to turn everything into the fabled Camelot.  Communism, as well, works beautifully *in theory*, but just doesn't work out in practice.  Unfortunately, our current 'sheep electing corrupt politicians' seems to work out the best of the bad ideas that have been institued thus far.

if it makes you feel any better, Camelot was probably a sh*t hole for the serfs who worked the land

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

And I never trust the news.  They have zero legal obligation to tell the truth, and often take liberties and bend the stories to their liking... or outright lie, in the case of Faux News.

Hmmm... You just gave me a thought: living in America must be funny. Perhaps, I should try it at some point of my life. I'm not sure I'd last long there... Can I insure myself against going to jail there?

Heh, sure you can, if you can get diplomatic immunity.  I don't find it very funny living here though.  We've got a covernment run by people bought by corporations, and people elected by sheep that jump at the first politician that says something they like.(Or in Obama's case, even if they never heard a word for him, they would have voted for him simply because he's not another old, white guy.)

I was more of thinking about possibility to earn some money by going to jail, if it comes to that.

And the socio-political situation you described is inevitable in a big country, unless you want a Stalin or a Hitler... Ooops!

Now I am trapped in my own net... Serves me right! That's what you get for going off-topic!

Well an Autocracy is ideal... if said leader is a wise, benevolant individual.  Sadly, it doesn't work that way in practice.  There are no 'King Arther' type leaders around to turn everything into the fabled Camelot.  Communism, as well, works beautifully *in theory*, but just doesn't work out in practice.  Unfortunately, our current 'sheep electing corrupt politicians' seems to work out the best of the bad ideas that have been institued thus far.

if it makes you feel any better, Camelot was probably a sh*t hole for the serfs who worked the land

Yeah, this.

Also, Fenix, if you want to know why I think Western Civ is so special these days, check the "Transhumanism" thread.

[Arijharn]

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Zulu, just admit that you lost. The title of this thread is, "Cerberus is Good, End of Story." Have you seen how long this thread is? If you haven't then I'll tell you. It is 16 pages. If you were right then it wouldn't have gotten past 2 pages. There would have been nothing to talk about because cerberus is good and there would be no arguing against that. Since there have been valid disagreements that means you were wrong, that one sentence doesn't sum up the situation.

Evolution is correct, end of story. How many 100+ page discussions do you think there are on the internet debating that though?

Evolution is totally not correct, god literally created the world in 7 days, the world is flat and everything orbits the Earth!

[Crixt]

not evil, but not good.

[Zulu_DFA]

Arijharn wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Zulu, just admit that you lost. The title of this thread is, "Cerberus is Good, End of Story." Have you seen how long this thread is? If you haven't then I'll tell you. It is 16 pages. If you were right then it wouldn't have gotten past 2 pages. There would have been nothing to talk about because cerberus is good and there would be no arguing against that. Since there have been valid disagreements that means you were wrong, that one sentence doesn't sum up the situation.

Evolution is correct, end of story. How many 100+ page discussions do you think there are on the internet debating that though?

Evolution is totally not correct, god literally created the world in 7 days, the world is flat and everything orbits the Earth!

If evolution was not correct, then God must have created Australia for the lulz!

But, on the other hand, if the Earth was a globe, you would have fallen off its downside!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 avril 2010 - 12:56 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Sajuro wrote...
if it makes you feel any better, Camelot was probably a sh*t hole for the serfs who worked the land

Well, "fabled" Camelot has these serfs cheering when their King walks by and everyone is happy and everyone farts flower petals into the air and other ridiculous things a Utopian society would be expected to contain.  I still hold that this will be what the Mass Effect world will end up as for the pure Paragon characters, or at least that's how it seems to be going...

[Sajuro]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
if it makes you feel any better, Camelot was probably a sh*t hole for the serfs who worked the land

Well, "fabled" Camelot has these serfs cheering when their King walks by and everyone is happy and everyone farts flower petals into the air and other ridiculous things a Utopian society would be expected to contain.  I still hold that this will be what the Mass Effect world will end up as for the pure Paragon characters, or at least that's how it seems to be going...

Then it turns out to be a false Utopian society as the Reapers trapped everyone in a lotus eater machinefor the lulz. Who knows, maybe that's truly what happens to people who are indoctrinated beyond the point of no return.

[agentwaffle]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The Reapers are the end of all life as we know it. They are Evil.

Cerberus opposes the Reapers. Cerberus is Good.

(To Shepard's knowledge, nobody else is doing anything about the Reapers, which means Cerberus is the best.)

End of story (at least until the Reapers are history).

This is a false dilemma fallacy.  There are other shades than good or bad.  Cerberus may be good for going against the reapers, but are they good for tortueing humans?

[Mallissin]

Please...let the thread die.



PLEASE, Waffle...PRETTY PLEASE!

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

agentwaffle wrote...

This is a false dilemma fallacy.  There are other shades than good or bad.  Cerberus may be good for going against the reapers, but are they good for tortueing humans?

Is the torture inherently good all by itself? No, but when factored into how it advances human interests one might judge it as justified, if nothing else.

Just for the record and I'm not disagreeing with you, Justified is very different from good.  But you didn't say it was the same, I'm just saying it cuz I haven't seen it said.