468 réponses à ce sujet

[Mallissin]

Necessary evils are necessary.

[Zulu_DFA]

@ RenownedRyan



When it comes to the ultimate standoff (and it is coming to it in ME) there are only the good guys, and the bad guys. There may be some speculation on who is a better guy, depending on everyone's contribution to the effort, but th bad guys are all equally bad and needing to get multiplied by zero. And Cerberus is not amongh them.







@enormousmoonboots



TIM's VA is brilliant, but it has nothing to do with my loyalty to Cerberus.

[Sajuro]

Mallissin wrote...

Necessary evils are necessary.

That doesn't make them good though.

for all we know the reapers are actually killing more advanced species so a whole other threat doesn't find out about them and wipe out ALL life in the whole damn galaxy. And Shepherd will kill the last Reaper and get a message from Harbringer that reads "Good Job Breaking it Hero."

[Nightwriter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

My working definition of "Good" is "opposite of Evil". And the "end of all life as we know it" falls well within the boundaries of "Evil" (to me, personally). Which means the the organization that stands agains the Reapers, that are as Shepard (and every player) is aware, exactly "the end of all life as we know it". This makes Cerberus "opposite of Evil", aka "Good". End of story. Everything else is rant.

It sounds more like your definition of good is "it opposes evil". The opposite of "evil", which is an extreme, is good, which is an opposite extreme.

And this covers well the scope of all the grief about aliens and humans. Even if as a result of Cerberus activity there are just TIM and Miranda left in the entire Galaxy, it's still good. Because, "else" there is nothing left. Only the Reapers, and their cycle of extinction, that is evil. And given the inability of any other power center in the Galaxy to acknowledge the Reaper threat, Cerberus is the only chance of the "life as we know it" to continue.

And the definition of "rant" well covers the paragon's argument that "the true hero always will find a way to make everyone happy". because it's no true.

The true hero will always try to save life - because life is sacred. All life. The true hero defends the right that all life shares, the right to live and grow and be, and to not be erased as though it never was.

Because sometimes there is no such a way, and sometimes there is no way to make anyone happy if what is right needs to be done. And the plot of Mass Effect well may provide a hypothetical example of such a situation.

Sometimes there is no such way? This is true, but I doubt it will hold true in a Bioware game. They almost always give you a way to be a good person, a way to save everyone.

And even in reality, there being little chance of saving everyone doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, and that you shouldn't morally oppose an organization who murders innocents in the pursuit of power - even if you need that organization's help right now.

[Mallissin]

Sajuro wrote...
for all we know the reapers are actually killing more advanced species so a whole other threat doesn't find out about them and wipe out ALL life in the whole damn galaxy. And Shepherd will kill the last Reaper and get a message from Harbringer that reads "Good Job Breaking it Hero."

Indoctrinated asari is indoctrinated.

[MadCat221]

Mallissin wrote...

Necessary evils are necessary.

True.  However, Cerberus does not engage in "necessary" evils.  They opt for Expedient evils.  There have been many parables and stories that dilineate good and evil by "what is right" and "what is easy".  Necessary evils are when neither option is available.  Cerberus opts for "easy" when available because they are impatient.

I soooo wanted a "And whose fault is that now?" speech option when TIM said that diplomacy doesn't work when everyone already percieves Cerberus as a threat.  <_<  So not only is Cerberus impatient, they are irresponsible; they don't even own up to their self-inflicted ill repute.

Modifié par MadCat221, 30 mars 2010 - 01:57 .

[X-Frame]

No way.



Cerberus, if TIM gains the tech of the Collector Base, will develop weapons that'll threaten the whole galaxy and then the Reapers will join up with Shepard to fight TIM.



Shepard must catch and train his own personal Reaper and solidify their connection with a flight in space and then "it's on like donkey kong" and I am rambling on and on and on ..

[MagicMidget]

Well @OP you cant really say Cerberus is either Good nor evil, As from what ive seen, they do whatever is most profitable/ beneficial to them at the moment. Also, There Xenophobic actions really dont help support the fact that they can be called "Good". Another point you put up, Just because they are ready and willing to stop the reapers doesnt mean they nessacarily are classified to be good.. I mean think about it, if they dont try to stop the reapers then more than likely they will die and Humanity will fall so in a way it is in their best intrest to stop the reapers and save their skins. Now i may have been foucusing on the reason they are not good but of course not every single person at cerberus is considered Xenophobic and there are bound to be decent people there ( Jacob and Miranda are examples) . So in conclusion of this Rant, Cerberus is merely a mutual orgainization. When they see a moment that helps them in any way theyll take it no matter how it questions there motives and the such.

[Sajuro]

Mallissin wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
for all we know the reapers are actually killing more advanced species so a whole other threat doesn't find out about them and wipe out ALL life in the whole damn galaxy. And Shepherd will kill the last Reaper and get a message from Harbringer that reads "Good Job Breaking it Hero."

Indoctrinated asari is indoctrinated.

Doesn't mean that indoctrinated asari is wrong

[Zulu_DFA]

Nightwriter wrote...

The true hero will always try to save life

That' exactly what Cerberus is about to do. Save life. As we know it. From the Reapers.
An individual's life can not be saved. Everyone is going to die some day. If you're seeking immortality, go find a Dragon Tooth and turn yourself to the Reapers. They'll grant you a salvation through destruction.

Sometimes there is no such way? This is true, but I doubt it will hold true in a Bioware game. They almost always give you a way to be a good person, a way to save everyone.

That's metagaming. Not my way.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
for all we know the reapers are actually killing more advanced species so a whole other threat doesn't find out about them and wipe out ALL life in the whole damn galaxy. And Shepherd will kill the last Reaper and get a message from Harbringer that reads "Good Job Breaking it Hero."

Indoctrinated asari is indoctrinated.

Doesn't mean that indoctrinated asari is wrong

Never met an indoctrinated asari that wasn't.

[Gavinthelocust]

Cerberus is a dark gray, they have done horrible things that not even the reapers have done but they want to save the galaxy or at least they look like they do.

[enormousmoonboots]

OP actually believes the definition of good is 'not the most evil person there is'



Thread cannot be saved



Applying lesbians...

[Big Yam]

Not good, but good for humanity. May have to kill them after the reapers. Until then, they're friends.

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
for all we know the reapers are actually killing more advanced species so a whole other threat doesn't find out about them and wipe out ALL life in the whole damn galaxy. And Shepherd will kill the last Reaper and get a message from Harbringer that reads "Good Job Breaking it Hero."

Indoctrinated asari is indoctrinated.

Doesn't mean that indoctrinated asari is wrong

Never met an indoctrinated asari that wasn't.

have you met all of the indoctrinated asaris?

[Arijharn]

Rationalisation for Cerberus experimentations (Unbiased)

• Biotic amplification projects - newist application in battlefield warfare. Asinine to ignore since all races save Salarians appear to deploy them in active combat formations. Biotic potential training likely to be largest in children due to physical immaturity and natural tendency for children to 'bounce' back from potential (although not necessarily encouraged) psychological scarring. - Teltin facility failed due to unauthorised research methods - including systematic abuse (all people can break... counter-intuitive to end goal).
• Thresher Maw (assuming Cerberus foreknowledge of their existence, whether from the colony attacked or not) - 'fire-and-forget' biological weapon system, plausible deniability. Alliance marines most likely to succeed in hunting and destroying Thresher Maws (weapons test for vehicle mounted weapon systems). Discovery that they are, physically at least, incredibly durable. What are the effects of genesplicing Thresher Maw DNA into soldiers to create ever more potent shock troops? What is the effects of Thresher Maw acid as an interrogative measure? Corporal Toombs discovered in second pass (Cdr. Shephard likely discovered on first), state on discovery completely unknown (what was the exact nature of the experiments performed on Corporal Toombs? The eyewitness account of someone as mentally unbalanced as Toombs could hardly be described as authoritive. If Jack could miss things as she was escaping the Teltin facility, could it not be the same for Toombs?)
• Thorian Creepers - test obviously failed (as reported by Miranda). How does the Thorian Creeper 'control' work? Applications for a Fear-like psychic 'biotic' commander? Inexpensive shock troops?
• Husk experimentation - test obviously failed (as reported by Miranda). Time to 'husk'? Preventative measures of 'husk'ification? Cybernetic enhancements to create more effective soldiers?
• Rachi - test obviously failed (as reported by Miranda). Inexpensive controllable shock troops (cloning etc)?

Consider: Who/what is next threat? (likely basis of this thought is humanity's own history of changing politics and boundaries) What is their military capacity? Can diplomacy be an issue?

Apologies for the broken sentence structure... I honestly wasn't thinking purposely like Mordin Then again, I was trying to put my point out sufficiently as well.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
for all we know the reapers are actually killing more advanced species so a whole other threat doesn't find out about them and wipe out ALL life in the whole damn galaxy. And Shepherd will kill the last Reaper and get a message from Harbringer that reads "Good Job Breaking it Hero."

Indoctrinated asari is indoctrinated.

Doesn't mean that indoctrinated asari is wrong

Never met an indoctrinated asari that wasn't.

have you met all of the indoctrinated asaris?

I think not.

Like Joker said, "It's never over".

[Zulu_DFA]

Big Yam wrote...

Not good, but good for humanity. May have to kill them after the reapers. Until then, they're friends.

= good.

[Kileyan]

(I love the scenario, but there is one flaw. Tali only has three fingers, how would she flip him off?)

Err that leaves a middle finger:)

Modifié par Kileyan, 30 mars 2010 - 02:23 .

[Mallissin]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Applying lesbians...

Doomed thread is saved!

[Nightwriter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The true hero will always try to save life

That' exactly what Cerberus is about to do. Save life. As we know it. From the Reapers.
An individual's life can not be saved. Everyone is going to die some day. If you're seeking immortality, go find a Dragon Tooth and turn yourself to the Reapers. They'll grant you a salvation through destruction.

I believe I also said all life.

It's not just about humanity. The right to exist knows no species barriers. When it comes to the threat of annihilation, we are all one being.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 30 mars 2010 - 02:28 .

[Xaijin]

That' exactly what Cerberus is about to do.

Proof is where?

It's funny how all the pro guys keep posting absolutes with zero proof.

I don't know about you, but I'd really like to play this awesome version of ME3 you keep talking about in past tense.

Trolltastic theorycraft is theory.

Modifié par Xaijin, 30 mars 2010 - 02:34 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Nightwriter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The true hero will always try to save life

That' exactly what Cerberus is about to do. Save life. As we know it. From the Reapers.
An individual's life can not be saved. Everyone is going to die some day. If you're seeking immortality, go find a Dragon Tooth and turn yourself to the Reapers. They'll grant you a salvation through destruction.

I believe I also said all life.

It's not just about humanity. The right to exist knows no species barriers. When it comes to the threat of annihilation, we are all one being.

Which quantification method do you use to measure the amount of life, that constitutes its being "all", or less than "all"?

[Zulu_DFA]

Xaijin wrote...

That' exactly what Cerberus is about to do.

Proof is where?

You "Cerberus is Evil" guys were here first. So, the proof is where?

[Nightwriter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Which quantification method do you use to measure the amount of life, that constitutes its being "all", or less than "all"?

Put it this way: Cerberus wants to save humanity. I want to save the galaxy.