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[Gavinthelocust]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

The Geth want peace and love while the Quarians are like those white people who think the black people are planning to kill them all. So Tali can be now considered more racist than Ashley, flame away.

Well tali is exempt from the Racist group because she gives legion non-classified data as a peace offering. Every other quarian is indeed racist though.

Did you hear that disappointed groan she made when convinced not to shoot Legion? She did it because of Shepard's apparent mind controll voice and her respect for him, otherwise she would have killed Legion and started a war. The Qwib-Qwib guy is the least racist Quarian because he actually wants peace while Tali is hateful of the Geth for seizing the homeworld in a revolt.

I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own.  That means she isn't racist.

If she had intended to in the first place why did she put a gun to Legion? If Shepard wasn't there would she have done the same?

[Radar E 33]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

The Geth want peace and love while the Quarians are like those white people who think the black people are planning to kill them all. So Tali can be now considered more racist than Ashley, flame away.

Well tali is exempt from the Racist group because she gives legion non-classified data as a peace offering. Every other quarian is indeed racist though.

Did you hear that disappointed groan she made when convinced not to shoot Legion? She did it because of Shepard's apparent mind controll voice and her respect for him, otherwise she would have killed Legion and started a war. The Qwib-Qwib guy is the least racist Quarian because he actually wants peace while Tali is hateful of the Geth for seizing the homeworld in a revolt.

Which instance? on Haelstrom? Or on the Normandy? Remember that on Haelstrom, Tali and her squard were surrounded by heretic geth; shepard kills them, and she turns around to see what she likely perceived to be to be the sneaky SOB geth she'd ever encounter... she doesn't wholly believe shepard at first, because the geth she had fought had no reason to follow shepard, and she thought it was a set-up. The latter only happens if you F up on the loyalty conflict; she is conflicted, as she is fighting the urges to shoot legion, but at the same time, upset that Legion is going to broadcast data that will leave her people open to attack.

[GuardianAngel470]

Besides, Admiral Koris is an Ass with a capital A. He thinks he's right and is willing to exile and innocent woman over his beliefs. It just so happens that I agree with him on peace, but that doesn't mean he isn't a pompous Ass.

[Internet Kraken]

I favor peace, but if I had to pick sides I would go with the Geth since they are the victims in all of this. Luckily that won't be necessary since both Gerrel and Xen said I crippled their war effort.

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Besides, Admiral Koris is an Ass
with a capital A. He thinks he's right and is willing to exile and
innocent woman over his beliefs. It just so happens that I agree with
him on peace, but that doesn't mean he isn't a pompous Ass.

Pretty
much every single one of the admirals is unlikeable due to either their
attitude or beliefs. I'm guessing this was intentional.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 30 mars 2010 - 02:42 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

The Geth want peace and love while the Quarians are like those white people who think the black people are planning to kill them all. So Tali can be now considered more racist than Ashley, flame away.

Well tali is exempt from the Racist group because she gives legion non-classified data as a peace offering. Every other quarian is indeed racist though.

Did you hear that disappointed groan she made when convinced not to shoot Legion? She did it because of Shepard's apparent mind controll voice and her respect for him, otherwise she would have killed Legion and started a war. The Qwib-Qwib guy is the least racist Quarian because he actually wants peace while Tali is hateful of the Geth for seizing the homeworld in a revolt.

I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own.  That means she isn't racist.

If she had intended to in the first place why did she put a gun to Legion? If Shepard wasn't there would she have done the same?

I never said that she hadn't intended to in the first place, just that she isn't racist because she was willing to accept that legion was justified in his actions.  Racists don't listen to reason, they hate no matter what someone says or does.  It takes some serious convincing or some seriously selfless act to shake a racist out of their beliefs. neither of which legion or shepard did. 

[Internet Kraken]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...





I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own. That means she isn't racist.

No, she is racist. And she should be. It would be pretty stupid for her to magically overcome years of prejudice taught by her crazy father just because Shepard yelled at her.

[Gavinthelocust]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Besides, Admiral Koris is an Ass with a capital A. He thinks he's right and is willing to exile and innocent woman over his beliefs. It just so happens that I agree with him on peace, but that doesn't mean he isn't a pompous Ass.

I agree that Tali is innocent and it was her father's fault but his dislike of the Zorahs is because they want war not because of a little slip up on a reasearch vessel. Still his voice sounds pompous as hell.

Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 30 mars 2010 - 02:45 .

[Radar E 33]

On a different note, was anyone annoyed at the fact that if you brought legion along to Tali's trial, the trial wasn't postponed? I mean, here is a sentient Geth, who is literally the Geth Ambassador. He is connected to his people and represents them... why didn't the Quarians ask the Geth if they were trying to kill them? Or, "where do we stand?" Through the dialogue, they could have found out the Geth were preserving the Homeworld. If they promised to stop cyberweapons research aimed at the Geth, they could have gone home!



Instead, nothing happens...

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

You can't be racist against a machine nor can you commit a crime against a machine. It is not a person.

I don't think we really need to rehash that argument, shandepared.  We did it to death in my thread on the quarians and what they deserved.

[Xaijin]

He's not arguing to prove a point.

[Internet Kraken]

Radar E 33 wrote...

On a different note, was anyone annoyed at the fact that if you brought legion along to Tali's trial, the trial wasn't postponed? I mean, here is a sentient Geth, who is literally the Geth Ambassador. He is connected to his people and represents them... why didn't the Quarians ask the Geth if they were trying to kill them? Or, "where do we stand?" Through the dialogue, they could have found out the Geth were preserving the Homeworld. If they promised to stop cyberweapons research aimed at the Geth, they could have gone home!

Instead, nothing happens...

Nobody gives a crap about Legion apparently. I think they don't realize that it's a real Geth.

[GuardianAngel470]

Radar E 33 wrote...

On a different note, was anyone annoyed at the fact that if you brought legion along to Tali's trial, the trial wasn't postponed? I mean, here is a sentient Geth, who is literally the Geth Ambassador. He is connected to his people and represents them... why didn't the Quarians ask the Geth if they were trying to kill them? Or, "where do we stand?" Through the dialogue, they could have found out the Geth were preserving the Homeworld. If they promised to stop cyberweapons research aimed at the Geth, they could have gone home!

Instead, nothing happens...

I wouldn't tell the quarians that they could get their homeworld back of they make peace with the Geth because then they would agree for the wrong reasons.  They need to agree because it is in their best interests and the best interests of the galaxy.  The need to willingly put aside their hate or else another war with the geth is inevitable.  You have them sign the peace treaty first, then tell them about their HW.

[Mallissin]

The Geth do not need planets, the Quarians do. There's no reason why even in a truce, the two cannot co-exist.

[Radar E 33]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Radar E 33 wrote...

On a different note, was anyone annoyed at the fact that if you brought legion along to Tali's trial, the trial wasn't postponed? I mean, here is a sentient Geth, who is literally the Geth Ambassador. He is connected to his people and represents them... why didn't the Quarians ask the Geth if they were trying to kill them? Or, "where do we stand?" Through the dialogue, they could have found out the Geth were preserving the Homeworld. If they promised to stop cyberweapons research aimed at the Geth, they could have gone home!

Instead, nothing happens...

I wouldn't tell the quarians that they could get their homeworld back of they make peace with the Geth because then they would agree for the wrong reasons.  They need to agree because it is in their best interests and the best interests of the galaxy.  The need to willingly put aside their hate or else another war with the geth is inevitable.  You have them sign the peace treaty first, then tell them about their HW.

i never said anything about shep telling the Quarians this... legion would likely ask for this condition... all i would do is urge them towards peace, but not for the wrong reasons

Modifié par Radar E 33, 30 mars 2010 - 02:53 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Radar E 33 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Radar E 33 wrote...

On a different note, was anyone annoyed at the fact that if you brought legion along to Tali's trial, the trial wasn't postponed? I mean, here is a sentient Geth, who is literally the Geth Ambassador. He is connected to his people and represents them... why didn't the Quarians ask the Geth if they were trying to kill them? Or, "where do we stand?" Through the dialogue, they could have found out the Geth were preserving the Homeworld. If they promised to stop cyberweapons research aimed at the Geth, they could have gone home!

Instead, nothing happens...

I wouldn't tell the quarians that they could get their homeworld back of they make peace with the Geth because then they would agree for the wrong reasons.  They need to agree because it is in their best interests and the best interests of the galaxy.  The need to willingly put aside their hate or else another war with the geth is inevitable.  You have them sign the peace treaty first, then tell them about their HW.

i never said anything about telling the Quarians this... legion would likely ask for this condition... all i would do is urge them towards peace, but not for the wrong reasons

The way you phrased you paragraph it appeared as though you did.  You say the Admiralty board would find out from legion that the geth were preserving their HW and then say that if they agreed to stop weapons development the quarians could return to their HW.  You never expressly said it but it seemed as though you implied it.

But it is irrelevant, what matters is that we agree that telling the quarians about their HW before they sign the peace treaty is the wrong move.

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 I only choose to rewrite the geth because it is the paragon action, and that typically means that it will have the most beneficial outcome.

You're a meta-gamer. That's fine, nothing wrong that. Just as long as you don't try to explain you position from being any different from Xen's. You two are using exactly the same approach.

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I agree that war is the least wanted option as it leaves both forces (if there is anything left of the quarians) weak should the reapers show up.

(b'-')b

Indeed. I hate earning paragon points but some times paragon is more sensible. At the very least they need to put off their war until after the Reapers have been dealt with. Then they can pay me to help them administer Xen's virus to the geth.

Yeah, it really is no different.  Xen wants to use a virus to change all geth into her own personal soldiers and I used a virus to change the heretic geth into true geth.  I was only establishing my Cannon really, every subsequent playthrough I will blow them up.

Legion also mentions that he (I use "he" because it acknowledges his sentience, you disagree and I know it, lets not bog the thread down with it) doesn't know what assimilating the changed geth would do to the collective, leaving me with Three very good reasons not to rewrite them.

[GuardianAngel470]

BTW, what is that symbol you wrote? (b'-')b.

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

  They need to agree because it is in their best interests and the best interests of the galaxy.

The quarians are not and should not be concerned with what is best for the galaxy. It's idiotic to expect them to put the needs of others before thier own. I agree with the first part though.

What I mean is what is best for the Galaxy is in fact best for the Quarians. It is one in the same.  If their fleet is damaged or destroyed by war then the Galaxy suffers, but the quarians suffered first.  Also, everyone needs to be a little selfless in this war because the reapers are threat to everyone.  It's us against them, If there is a problem with Us like war or weaked forces, then We as a whole are less equiped to fight the Them.  Even if you are being selfish you are being selfless because by looking out for yourself you are looking out for everybody.

[Radar E 33]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Radar E 33 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Radar E 33 wrote...

On a different note, was anyone annoyed at the fact that if you brought legion along to Tali's trial, the trial wasn't postponed? I mean, here is a sentient Geth, who is literally the Geth Ambassador. He is connected to his people and represents them... why didn't the Quarians ask the Geth if they were trying to kill them? Or, "where do we stand?" Through the dialogue, they could have found out the Geth were preserving the Homeworld. If they promised to stop cyberweapons research aimed at the Geth, they could have gone home!

Instead, nothing happens...

I wouldn't tell the quarians that they could get their homeworld back of they make peace with the Geth because then they would agree for the wrong reasons.  They need to agree because it is in their best interests and the best interests of the galaxy.  The need to willingly put aside their hate or else another war with the geth is inevitable.  You have them sign the peace treaty first, then tell them about their HW.

i never said anything about telling the Quarians this... legion would likely ask for this condition... all i would do is urge them towards peace, but not for the wrong reasons

The way you phrased you paragraph it appeared as though you did.  You say the Admiralty board would find out from legion that the geth were preserving their HW and then say that if they agreed to stop weapons development the quarians could return to their HW.  You never expressly said it but it seemed as though you implied it.

But it is irrelevant, what matters is that we agree that telling the quarians about their HW before they sign the peace treaty is the wrong move.

Indeed. I apologize. I was in the middle of editing my post when you posted. You could tell them about the homeworld, but what will that do? Will they suddenly attack? Unlikely. The Geth could still decimate them.

One could theorize that the Quarians, upon hearing that the Geth were preserving their homeworld, would see that, perhaps the Geth feel guilty about the excess force they used... They could the Geth's preservation of the homeworld as a gesture of goodwill; a sign that eventually, the Geth would let them return home. If the Geth had no intention, they either would have pissed all over the place and trashed the planet, or the Geth would have made the homeworld their own. They didn't, at least from what i read...

Bear in mind, that the Geth were seen as the boogymen, one's you could not reason with; it is likely that no Quarian ever thought of simply asking "can we go home?". Tali knows that legion has the ability to reason, unlike the heretics, who are caught up in their Nazarra worshipping code. She should have spoken up...

Modifié par Radar E 33, 30 mars 2010 - 03:10 .

[Radar E 33]

stupid double post

Modifié par Radar E 33, 30 mars 2010 - 03:15 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...


What I mean is what is best for the Galaxy is in fact best for the Quarians. It is one in the same.

Yes, but my point is that as long as the quarians do what is in their best interests they'll be helping the rest of us. No need to complicate the issue by pointing out that helping themselves helps us too. What I mean is, if you were going to get diplomatic with them don't even bother pointing out that we may need their help; just tell them this:

"You're going to drive yourselves to exinction if you go to war now and here is why..."

Ok, yeah, that makes sense.  I just look at how selfless Tali is portrayed as and at their culture as a whole and it seems a short leap from defining Us=Migrant fleet and Us=the galaxy.  But it is true that the galaxy hasn't done the quarians any favors, they may see it better if you tell it to them as just Us=Migrant fleet.