128 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

Xaijin wrote...

Not talking about the programs she erroneously attributed to.

Talking about ALL Geth.

No, I was responding to the other poster, not you.  You and I are in agreement.

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

Wildecker wrote...

If the Quarians regain control of the Geth and reprogram them into docile, unquestioning servants (with a considerable margin of safety to keep them from going sentient again), I wonder if these Geth will make decent soldiers.
And I also wonder if their Quarian masters will not just throw them away in pointless battles because "they're only Geth!".

A synthetic army is still expensive. Not the kind of thing you just throw away.

To be fair, the Quarians didn't pay for the Geth army, they would be stealing it.  Thus, they wouldn't care if it got destroyed as long as it served its purpose.

[GuardianAngel470]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Not talking about the programs she erroneously attributed to.

Talking about ALL Geth.

No, I was responding to the other poster, not you.  You and I are in agreement.

Being lazy, should have found the original post by her.  My bad.

[Mallissin]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
To be fair, the Quarians didn't pay for the Geth army, they would be stealing it.  Thus, they wouldn't care if it got destroyed as long as it served its purpose.

I have the proof of purchase! SEE! An invoice! They're all mine!

[hangmans tree]

Well, I hate the politics and rhetorics (thats why Tali mission was so great).

I warned quarians and opted for peace. I think the fleet would be decimated. Most of the fleet are civillian vessels I think. And to loose some of them means death of hundreds of thousand-millions of quarians.

I would/will execute some/all of the quarian admiralty or whoever will blindily push toward strife and war.

The geth were wronged in the Morning War. The quarians did not comprehend what they did, now theres too much hate and long time grudge to see clearly.

But geth still call them "creators" and tend to their worlds, cleaning up after the war. They are like children who cant understand why parents wanted to hurt them...Legion is on a "pilgrimage" for answers. So the bridge can be built, a peace is in reach. I would go to any lenghts to achive it.



Tali is vas Normandy now. I hope that if the situation gets bad and ugly she will stay loyal to Shepard in wider perspective (the same goes for Legion by the way).



Rewriting geth was returning them to their original unaltered programming. Getting reed of the fault leaves them computing their actions - and ,erge later on I presume. As a whole geth (will) rise stronger. Experience from both sides, true geth and heretics alike, gives them perspective which is an edge in upcoming conflict.



I strongly hope for the story to evolve, I want to have more little influences in that plot (or major maybe?). Its epic and insightful, with many dillemas which make sci-fi and fantasy literature the best there is...(well, I mean Asimov, Lem, Dick, Henlein and the like

[TheLostGenius]

In my game I let Legion kill Tali. Bet you didn't know THAT was a renegade option.

[TheLostGenius]

If the Quarians fight the Geth for their homeworld the only genocide that happens will be of the Quarian people.

[GuardianAngel470]

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

To be fair, the Quarians didn't pay for the Geth army, they would be stealing it.  Thus, they wouldn't care if it got destroyed as long as it served its purpose.

The quarians will have devoted a lot of time and effort into acquiring that army. As a tool it will be useful so long as it maintained. There is no reason they would throw that army away for fun. Most especaily because I'm certain Xen has plans for it...

I understand that but they would be more prone to being reckless than if they were Quarian soldiers.  Consider that when America stepped into WWI the british and french wanted to use these fresh forces as cannon fodder. That is what I see the quarians doing.  Using a force they have no emotional or logical connection to as cannon fodder against the reaper forces instead of committing Quarian troops.  I just mean the quarians would use the geth for missions that are more likely to get lots of mobile platforms destroyed than substituting the geth with quarians.

[Ride2Ruin25]

Ideally I'd like to find some way to forge a peace between the Quarian and Geth with terms that return the Homeworld to the Quarians and leave the Geth free to seek self-improvement. Legion does indicate that the Geth would be open to peace if the Quarians made it clear that that is what they truly want. Also, he states that the Geth do not inhabit Rannoch itself, and in fact they are actually cleaning up the damage done by the Morning War. As for the Quarians, the majority of the Admirals and higher-ups, even Han'Gerrel and Tali, would probably be reasonable enough to accept an option that allows them to regain the Homeworld without a shot being fired.



The only thing Geth really seem to thoroughly 'despise' and potentially react to with large-scale violence are threats to their existence, or more precisely, their ability to self-determinate. With that in mind, going with Admiral Xen's plan of reprogramming the Geth would probably be an even worse option that attacking the Geth directly, given the consequences if it backfires.

[Gocad]

 The Quarians are way too confident of their tech skills. As tragic as their forced exile may have been, it was already clear in ME1 that they brought that upon themselves. 

It's also pretty evident that Xen's plan to hack the Geth back into submission is bound to fail, which isn't exactly a bad thing, since I did get the impression that she doesn't want to do that only to get back their homeworld....

I think Legion makes it also quite clear that the Quarians could probably return to their homeworld once the Quarians admit that the Geth aren't their toys, but a sentient race that wants to develop themselves without interference from other races. So in the end I would say that the whole issue is about whether the Quarians can admit that they aren't the master techies they claim to be.

[Arijharn]

I hope that in ME3 we actually get to fight Xen's Quarian's... as an option of course. But maybe that's just me being flippant.

[GuardianAngel470]

Internet Kraken wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...


I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own. That means she isn't racist.

No, she is racist. And she should be. It would be pretty stupid for her to magically overcome years of prejudice taught by her crazy father just because Shepard yelled at her.

Prejudice is different from Racism.  Prejudice is a long held belief about something while racism is a hate of something, mostly other races or species.

[marshalleck]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...


I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own. That means she isn't racist.

No, she is racist. And she should be. It would be pretty stupid for her to magically overcome years of prejudice taught by her crazy father just because Shepard yelled at her.

Prejudice is different from Racism.  Prejudice is a long held belief about something while racism is a hate of something, mostly other races or species.

This is a pointless argument, people have no idea what real racism is because the word is applied to any and every situation or attitude some random person finds distasteful and wants to complain about

[Mallissin]

Racism is a form is stereotype influenced prejudice. There is no "real racism". It takes many forms among various cultures. Since humanity was attacked early in the expansion, it's understandable that most humans are xenophobic but you'll notice many other species are as well.

So, leave Tali alone. It takes time for people to trust something new.

Modifié par Mallissin, 30 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Mallissin wrote...

Racism is a form is stereotype influenced prejudice. There is no "real racism". It takes many forms among various cultures. Since humanity was attacked early in the expansion, it's understandable that most humans are xenophobic but you'll notice many other species are as well.

So, leave Ash alone. It takes time for people to trust something new.

We're not even talking about ash!!!

[GuardianAngel470]

marshalleck wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...


I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own. That means she isn't racist.

No, she is racist. And she should be. It would be pretty stupid for her to magically overcome years of prejudice taught by her crazy father just because Shepard yelled at her.

Prejudice is different from Racism.  Prejudice is a long held belief about something while racism is a hate of something, mostly other races or species.

This is a pointless argument, people have no idea what real racism is because the word is applied to any and every situation or attitude some random person finds distasteful and wants to complain about

Pointless discussions are pointless, but can often be entertaining.  Until things become meaningless, in which case they stop being pointless.

Go figure that one out.

[Mallissin]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Racism is a form is stereotype influenced prejudice. There is no "real racism". It takes many forms among various cultures. Since humanity was attacked early in the expansion, it's understandable that most humans are xenophobic but you'll notice many other species are as well.

So, leave Ash alone. It takes time for people to trust something new.

We're not even talking about ash!!!

What? Oh. Sorry, just so use to...defending...

Anyway, replace Ash with Tali and "humanity yada yada" with "Quarians were made outcasts because of the Geth and often shunned from yada yada".

[GuardianAngel470]

Mallissin wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Racism is a form is stereotype influenced prejudice. There is no "real racism". It takes many forms among various cultures. Since humanity was attacked early in the expansion, it's understandable that most humans are xenophobic but you'll notice many other species are as well.

So, leave Ash alone. It takes time for people to trust something new.

We're not even talking about ash!!!

What? Oh. Sorry, just so use to...defending...

Anyway, replace Ash with Tali and "humanity yada yada" with "Quarians were made outcasts because of the Geth and often shunned from yada yada".

Way to turn an irrelevant post into a relevant one, have a cookie.

[Radar E 33]

hangmans tree wrote...

The geth were wronged in the Morning War. The quarians did not comprehend what they did, now theres too much hate and long time grudge to see clearly.
But geth still call them "creators" and tend to their worlds, cleaning up after the war. They are like children who cant understand why parents wanted to hurt them...Legion is on a "pilgrimage" for answers. So the bridge can be built, a peace is in reach. I would go to any lenghts to achive it.

This

Although the Geth admitted through legion that excessive force was used during the War. That appears to be the difference between the two species; the geth acknowledge what they did was wrong, the Quarian (for the most part) do not. Talk to Tali in ME1, and she tells you that they acted first against a perceived threat. You tell her "you had it coming" and she is all like, "we were justified! They would have killed us! The council would have been cross with us!"... and that ultimately is what it comes to; they were afraid of the reprecussions of creating Sentient A.I. Rather than taking pride in what they had accomplished, they panicked.They were afraid of getting into trouble.
So they clung to flawed, stupid ideology, and declared war in the name of "self-preservation"... Their ignornace is astounding; no doubt they had something similar to our 3 laws of robotics (and if they didn't, then they're even bigger idiots), though from what i gathered fromtheir views on the geth, their's is probably different than ours:

1) You must be our obedient slaves
2) You must not question our authority to do as we will with you
3) we reserve the right to kill you if you displease us or get us into trouble.

And that is why i have no sympathy for the Quarians; they blame everyone else for their banishment and their predicament. They trash worlds, have no respect for current council rulings, and refuse to acknowledge their sins...
 
I foresee Admiral Xen starting an interstellar war between the Quarians and the Geth,and you'll be tasked to either resolve it peacefully,kill Xen and her supporters,or back one side over the other.

[Xaijin]

Ash isn't racist, she's loyalist. There were wrongs on both sides. The Geth reaction was as virulent as the inital Quarian reaction, since geth aren't as concerned with the inididual except has they relate to the whole, so they shredded the Quarians wholesale.

[Internet Kraken]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...


I didn't tell her to offer legion non-classified data, she did that on her own. That means she isn't racist.

No, she is racist. And she should be. It would be pretty stupid for her to magically overcome years of prejudice taught by her crazy father just because Shepard yelled at her.

Prejudice is different from Racism.  Prejudice is a long held belief about something while racism is a hate of something, mostly other races or species.

I didn't say racism and prejudice were the same thing. But going by dictionary defintions Tali is both of them when it comes to the Geth. Though I suppose "racism" isn't the proper term since the Geth are not a race.

Shandepared wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
To
be fair, the Quarians didn't pay for the Geth army, they would be
stealing it.  Thus, they wouldn't care if it got destroyed as long as
it served its purpose.

The quarians will have
devoted a lot of time and effort into acquiring that army. As a tool it
will be useful so long as it maintained. There is no reason they would
throw that army away for fun. Most especaily because I'm certain Xen
has plans for it...

If the Quarians have learned anything as a species then they would either destroy or befriend the Geth. Them making the Geth into slaves again would be incredibly foolish. There's a reason Xen's opinnion on synthetics are in the minority.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 30 mars 2010 - 07:39 .

[Mallissin]

Xaijin wrote...

Ash Tali isn't racist, she's loyalist sexy. There were wrongs on both sides. The Geth reaction was as virulent as the inital Quarian reaction, since geth aren't as concerned with the inididual except has they relate to the whole, so they shredded the Quarians wholesale.

Fixed.

Modifié par Mallissin, 30 mars 2010 - 07:36 .