237 réponses à ce sujet

[highcastle]

*raises hand* I'll leave aside the fact that I read The Calling and know there's more to him than meets the eye. From an RP point of view, my characters have no reason to trust him. He used Warden blood in his experiments, he doesn't understand the sanctity of human life, and he's absolutely ruthless. I'm all for ending the Blights, but you need to end the taint, too. Creating intelligent darkspawn doesn't do that. It just spreads the infection. And can result in creatures like the Mother.

At the end of the day, you have to put your faith in a creature that's experimented on you, spawned a psychotic broodmother, and released a horde of intelligent darkspawn on an unsuspecting world. While I'd like to offer the darkspawn the choice of freewill, there's no way to limit their taint. They would just end up corrupting more and more humans until there's naught left but darkspawn. That's not a sustainable future.

[Katreyn]

I killed him the first time around. Just seemed, not right, to trust him. Even with his "promises." Darkspawn is still unhealthy to the world, sane or not.



The second time, I let him live, and I regretted it after the conversation with the mother. I'm not sure if there was an option to kill him then, but I felt like he should of mentioned that he was the creator of the mother as well.

[WARDEN9652]

ive killed him every playthrough except for my evil mage playthrough, since hes just like the architect except instead of being a darkspawn hes a grey warden of course

[Lord Aravail]

On my first playthrough I killed him simply because it's what my chararacter would do from a role-playing perspective (Strict Grey Warden, dedicated to killing as many darkspawn as possible regardless of cost). It really hurt me to do it though because I'd just finished reading The Calling and found him a very interesting character. Plus I'm an Architecture major in real life, so I never enjoy killing a potential future colleague.

[nuculerman]

Because he tried to kill me. Even was over a misunderstanding, I don't take attempts on my life lightly. I definitely felt bad about it though. I can sympathize with his position and dilemma, but at the end of the day, like all wars, its them or us.

[dwanedibbley]

I dont see the point in killing him, since he wants better future for his kind, and even live in peace with others.



btw who r his parrents? He said he was already born like that so im interesting if its perhaps earlier Flameths experiment with dark ritual.

[nuculerman]

He wants prosperity and acceptance for his kind which means everyone becomes a ghoul or everyone goes through the joining in the long term. He also is ruthless and starts blights and creates abominations like the mother to get his ends. He's not exactly good.

[WARDEN9652]

yea i think his goal is good, but the way he goes about obtaining it is not



he wants peace between people and the darkspawn, but does not care that what he does will affect every human, elf, dwarf in a bad way



i dont think the end justifies the means but i still side with him a couple times just because i like his character

[Thibbledorf26]

He killed and tortured countless people, and his ritual involves Grey Warden blood. What happens when there is no 'convenient' supply of dead wardens, when the Mother is slain. He could go and slaughter Grey Wardens for their blood, killing thousands in the process.He could imprison humans as living batteries, forcing them to go through the Joining ritual, and then harvesting their blood. Also, what happens when the architect has huge armies of intelligent darkspawn. Sure, they don't need to follow the Old God's orders to lay siege to mankind, but they might do it anyway. Given the violent history of the Darkspawn I can't imagine the Architect's people holding hands with dwarves and trading deep mushrooms to humans for clothing and spices.

[Loerwyn]

I killed him.

What's to stop him backstabbing everyone? It the Darkspawn have their own sentience, they could become a lot more powerful and damaging to Thedas; not just Ferelden.

He's been shown to be a crafty so-and-so (hell, he has an ex-warden on his side), and I couldn't justify letting him continue.



Lesser of two evils, IMHO. Kill him and stop it happening or let him live and leave the possibility for something worse than a Blight? Nope. Had to kill him.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I actually dont kill him i like to be the good guy im not out to win the approval of my fellow wardens in orlais im out to stop blights i believe his experments were messed up but hes made some nice darkspawn that act human and have no will to kill anyone and just want to be free so yea i dont slay him anything it takes to stop the blight sometimes to fight evil you need a greater evil to combat it.

[Abyss_666]

I killed him since it's just too dangerous to let someone as mighty as him live there could be a lot more behind him than he tells you and his plans could backfire (see accidently starting a blight,creating the mother) the worst thing that could happen would be an entire army of intelligent darkspawn (maybe even intelligent ogres)

[varel1]

I killed him in both my playthroughs - why?



He needs a constant supply of warden blood



His vision of a darkspawn future is incompatible with the future of humans, elves and dwarves



He experimented on, and killed countless people



He creates intelligent darkspawn, that are far more dangerous foes than the DAO versions.

[Abyss_666]

varel1 wrote...

I killed him in both my playthroughs - why?

He needs a constant supply of warden blood

His vision of a darkspawn future is incompatible with the future of humans, elves and dwarves

He experimented on, and killed countless people

He creates intelligent darkspawn, that are far more dangerous foes than the DAO versions.

just imagine the final battle in origins with disciples,armored ogres and the children

[immortallogic]

I've read a few posts and I feel like your looking at it wrong...what the game is trying to tell you is that, wardens and "darkspawn 2.0" are sides of the same coin, dont you see that, in the arc's eyes wardens slaying darkspawn and drinking thier blood is just as bad? if hes able to forgive humanity for that why can our warden forgive him? Grey wardens are pretty rare, how many could be abducted unnoticed, maybe he got blood from wardens already dead from either their calling, or from when they fell in battle fighting mindless darkspawn. ultimatly I feel like theres something else lurking behind the scenes thats yet to been discovered bigger then darkspawn or the old gods..maybe people thought to be allies are something darker perhaps?

Modifié par immortallogic, 30 mars 2010 - 12:38 .

[mousestalker]

Two more old gods and then the Blights stop anyway. I kill him. He may want the Blights to stop, but his means are evil. Turning all the sentients into ghouls means that those races die out, then the ghouls die out leaving only sentient darkspawn. Not really a good idea.



If the Architect wants one of my Wardens to trust him then he needs to come up with a better plan and demonstrate that he can not only be trusted to do what he says but that he has the ethical framework to employ only legitimate and moral means.



Which is never going to happen.

[Abyss_666]

mousestalker wrote...

Two more old gods and then the Blights stop anyway. I kill him. He may want the Blights to stop, but his means are evil. Turning all the sentients into ghouls means that those races die out, then the ghouls die out leaving only sentient darkspawn. Not really a good idea.

If the Architect wants one of my Wardens to trust him then he needs to come up with a better plan and demonstrate that he can not only be trusted to do what he says but that he has the ethical framework to employ only legitimate and moral means.

Which is never going to happen.

but there's the next question I'm asking myself what will the darkspawn do after there are no more old gods?When they don't hear the calling anymore?

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

mousestalker wrote...

Two more old gods and then the Blights stop anyway. I kill him. He may want the Blights to stop, but his means are evil. Turning all the sentients into ghouls means that those races die out, then the ghouls die out leaving only sentient darkspawn. Not really a good idea.

If the Architect wants one of my Wardens to trust him then he needs to come up with a better plan and demonstrate that he can not only be trusted to do what he says but that he has the ethical framework to employ only legitimate and moral means.

Which is never going to happen.

 

Completely respect your views but keep in mind you dont know how powerful the other 2 old gods are and as i said before to fight evil sometimes hero's cant end the fighting you need to fight evil with a evil equal or greater evil just somthing to ponder me ill do anything to stop the blights. Spare him once and read the end game cards when you spare himyou might see hes doing some good.

Modifié par OrlesianWardenCommander, 30 mars 2010 - 01:22 .

[highcastle]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Two more old gods and then the Blights stop anyway. I kill him. He may want the Blights to stop, but his means are evil. Turning all the sentients into ghouls means that those races die out, then the ghouls die out leaving only sentient darkspawn. Not really a good idea.

If the Architect wants one of my Wardens to trust him then he needs to come up with a better plan and demonstrate that he can not only be trusted to do what he says but that he has the ethical framework to employ only legitimate and moral means.

Which is never going to happen.

 

Completely respect your views but keep in mind you dont know how powerful the other 2 old gods are and as i said before to fight evil sometimes hero's cant end the fighting you need to fight evil with a evil equal or greater evil just somthing to ponder me ill do anything to stop the blights. Spare him once and read the end game cards when you spare himyou might see hes doing some good.

But what about the spreading of the taint? I'm all for free will and I think the darkspawn are tragic figures, but they infect innocents with their very presence. You make them strong enough, smart enough, and they're going to turn every living thing into a ghoul. Goodbye humanity, elves, and dwarves. I'd love to take a third option here, but this isn't the right thing. In the long term, it's going to destroy the world. I'd rather face the next two Blights than bargain with the Architect. Who knows, maybe down the road we'll find a way to undo the taint. But until then, trusting the Architect just seems foolish.

[Raiil]

 My F!Mage did, for the following reasons:

He's a killer, and obviously has no compunction about injuring others. Amell, although quickly becoming disillusioned about the Wardens, still believes in her goals and the Architect is standing in her way.

Also, although the idea of ending the Blight run then and there is tempting, and something she'd give her life for, she doesn't trust him. There's not enough information. 


Plus, there's a part of her who intrinsically knows that people evolve and become better through hardship. Better that they live through two more blights, horrific as they might be and heartbroken as it might leave her, than to take a chance and compromise with the Architect. What he may ask of the world is too much; as a mage who spent most of her without the freedom of choice, she's not willing to take that choice away from them. There will also little things; she'd given Velanna that blank journal and the thought of her not being able to finish it was a little saddening. Or Nathaniel, who was looking to cleanse the Howe name, or Anders, learning to enjoy his new freedom. All things that could be erased in a heartbeat by the Architect's possible plans. In the end, she had to make the decision that the world fight for it's right for existence rather than lay down like a dog and submit.

[Meruvian]

I killed him,



Preventing any future blights from happening, may be regarded as a noble purpose, but I think Grey wardens should also prevent the spread of the darkspawn corruption.



Wardens and darkspawn 2.0 (love the term btw) may indeed be the sides of the same coin, but that doesn't just mean those darkspawn are more human-like, I wouldn't go so far to say humane, but it also means Grey wardens are more like darkspawn, less human-like.



The way I see it, the wardens, like the legion of the dead, are outsiders to a society they are trying to protect. And although they may go to extremes to protect their goals, and have the right to conscript individuals, in the end they are still trying to protect the rest of the world. By drinking darkspan blood, they become more like them, which renders them more efficient at killing them, but at the same time it makes them less human, in that way they quite litterary serve as a barrier between darkspawn and humans.



Because of the blights wardens can be viewed as necessary. And conscripting an individual could be compared to a religious sacrifice sacrifice. But I think it is most important to remember that the wardens are a defence for humanity against the corruption the darkspawn bring with them. Not all recruits survive the joining, most people would not. And those that do survive are rendered less human than they were, that is no solution in my book.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

highcastle wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Two more old gods and then the Blights stop anyway. I kill him. He may want the Blights to stop, but his means are evil. Turning all the sentients into ghouls means that those races die out, then the ghouls die out leaving only sentient darkspawn. Not really a good idea.

If the Architect wants one of my Wardens to trust him then he needs to come up with a better plan and demonstrate that he can not only be trusted to do what he says but that he has the ethical framework to employ only legitimate and moral means.

Which is never going to happen.

 

Completely respect your views but keep in mind you dont know how powerful the other 2 old gods are and as i said before to fight evil sometimes hero's cant end the fighting you need to fight evil with a evil equal or greater evil just somthing to ponder me ill do anything to stop the blights. Spare him once and read the end game cards when you spare himyou might see hes doing some good.

But what about the spreading of the taint? I'm all for free will and I think the darkspawn are tragic figures, but they infect innocents with their very presence. You make them strong enough, smart enough, and they're going to turn every living thing into a ghoul. Goodbye humanity, elves, and dwarves. I'd love to take a third option here, but this isn't the right thing. In the long term, it's going to destroy the world. I'd rather face the next two Blights than bargain with the Architect. Who knows, maybe down the road we'll find a way to undo the taint. But until then, trusting the Architect just seems foolish.

I agree and disagree with what your saying we dont really know what his intentions are but i know hes a bad good guy he needed to experement to discover more about giving darkspawn there humanity i mean if alot of them are like that cool darkspawn you fight with at amaranthine then i welcome them.

    He might of used grey warden blood but humans have lots of blood and as we know it doesnt take alot of it to convert a darkspawn to gaining there mind just as just a sip is required for becoming a grey warden.
Also at the end codex it even says the deep roads had been very quiet. Is letting him live a gamble? yes i think it is without question but if i have a chance to side with darkspawn that want to be rid of the old gods then im going to take that chance. Ghouls although evil sinister and not right. There were not as many of them most just die when infected so you dont even see that many besides a few prisoner ghouls and the ghoul clones of your party members and that one dying guy in the forest.

    The only reason they attacked the vigil is cause the grey wardens struck first viewing the withered approach as an attack so it wasnt intentional, Is the archetect wrong by expermenting on live subjects? Yes he is but as i said a few times on this forum sometimes to fight a evil you need a equal or greater evil to combat the problem. I have no solid proof but i think the archetect might be a ally when you go to orlais to stop the next blight.

  OH why i remember also that darkspawn that you offer him the chance to attack amaranthine and he agrees if you let him go  he sets out and helps passing travels by saving them from danger so hows that for a good darkspawn i wish he could be a party member hes so cool. But back to the point lets put theses next blights in a different perspective now could orlais and ferelden survive them the darkspawn always outnumber the humans
do you think people in the real world could survive world war 3? world war 4? and so on you only have so many soldiers so many grey wardens and so many lives depend on you so sometimes you gotta lay down your anger to do what might save tens of thousands of lives. I love this quote so read it "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" amazing quote it'll never leave me. Remember im not out to change your guys views just saying some facts to ponder on.

    Also awakening shows that they dont need a archdemon to try to start a blight so in the end you atleast have to try and consider his offer. If you dont consider his offer how are we any diffirent then darkspawn? killing every talking darkspawn or darkspawn that offer to bring peace, We see is as bad as a darkspawn killing every human it sees. You say darkspawn are monsters, But how can they ever not be monsters if you kill every intelligent darkspawn. Then your just back to square one. But i killed him just to see the codex seems more peaceful to let him live. But if i find out in  DAO:2 that he betrays me i will come back from the fade itself to see him pay,

Modifié par OrlesianWardenCommander, 31 mars 2010 - 02:37 .