Sorry forgot my other point being if this is how 1 awakened broodmother reacts how likely would it be for others to react in the same manner.
Who here slew The Architect? Why?
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#152
Posté 04 décembre 2010 - 01:14
steelbom
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I'm torn, I've got one save where I've allied with the Arch, and another where I've killed him, both in the nest ready to go. I've finished both, was happy with ending after killing him until I saw Velanna is mad at me forever -.-, gah.
#153
Posté 06 décembre 2010 - 08:40
LadyKarrakaz
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First time I played Awakening, killed him, too afraid of the threat that thinking darkspawn could be, even when freeing other darkspawn, the Architect is not sure he does not create more clever monsters (like the mother).
Second playthrough though, I let him live, just to learn he was the one that was the cause of the latest Blight. Should have killed him once more.
Second playthrough though, I let him live, just to learn he was the one that was the cause of the latest Blight. Should have killed him once more.
#154
Posté 07 décembre 2010 - 03:34
FaeQueenCory
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I spared him too.... though mine was for another reason... My warden was a devout Andrastian... and viewed the Architect as the Maker's hand at rectifying the oops He made with His blight punishment system: what happens when all the old gods are dead?? What are all the millions of darkspawn gonna do?? Probably rampage!Rob_R wrote...
This is the info the game gives us:Questions:
- The Architect uses "evil" means (experiments etc)
- His experiments can go spectacularly wrong (eg accidentally creating the Archdemon in DA:O)
- These experiments are seemingly working for a "positive" goal, which is to stop the blights
- His experiments would lead to a "good" outcome for his people, the darkspawn, as they would become sentient
- He is not lying - you can see darkspawn fighting darkspawn in every dungeon in DA:OA
- He is not lying - from the epilogue we know that if you spare him, the darkspawn raids do stop, as promised
(PS I spared him)
- Can Fereldans (Thedas'ians) and darkspawn 2.0 co-exist? We know, though that Darkspawn 2.0 can be "good" eg the messenger in Amaranthine (epilogue), but his "good" deeds still led to some humans catching a disease off him
- Is there more to his agenda? Here we can only guess
- If there is more to his agenda, Darkspawn 2.0 can be a serious enemy, now capable of tactics
- Can you live with his evil means to get to a (possibly) very good end (win-win)
- If you spare him, can you live with all the other wardens hating you (epilogue) or is saving lives more important (less dwarves die capturing Kal'Hirol if you spare him) than history's opinion of you?
So NOT killing Darkspawn-Andraste aka The Architect, was the wisest choice for him...
Also he/I are kinda terrible people. We betrayed Morrigan to Flemeth and then she confessed her love for us...
#155
Posté 07 décembre 2010 - 03:47
ElvaliaRavenHart
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I have not read this whole thread, but in the book "The Calling", the Architect's reason for helping his brethen was as stated to stop the blights, but in so doing meant that humanity as a whole would have to be tainted for this to be achieved. This is why I kill him everytime. DAA doesn't give this information that the book does. King Maric, Duncan, and Fiona are the only survivors from that battle of stopping the Architect in "The Calling".
There is also a wicked First Enchanter different from Irving that they battle was well. I also got the impression from the book that the evil first enchanter would have turned on the Architect anyway. He had his own plan going to save himself from the taint that the Architect would have unleased on all humanity.
I am going to make a playthrough were I keep Averness, Flemeth, and the Architect all alive and see what happens in DA2 with that playthrough.
There is also a wicked First Enchanter different from Irving that they battle was well. I also got the impression from the book that the evil first enchanter would have turned on the Architect anyway. He had his own plan going to save himself from the taint that the Architect would have unleased on all humanity.
I am going to make a playthrough were I keep Averness, Flemeth, and the Architect all alive and see what happens in DA2 with that playthrough.
- Cobra's_back aime ceci
#156
Posté 07 décembre 2010 - 04:07
Ashaman X
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I was in two minds what to do, as I had already read about what the various endings could be. In the end, I chose to slay him, as it was what my mage Roxanne would do. She really understands what the Architect is trying to do, but she can't abide the methods he is using. He can't change his methods however, so she felt she was left with no choice. She knows she's doomed humanity to two more Blights, but she has faith that humanity will pull through.
I may just let him live in the current playthrough I'm doing with a fem Cousland and import that save into DA2 to see what happens.
I may just let him live in the current playthrough I'm doing with a fem Cousland and import that save into DA2 to see what happens.
#157
Posté 07 décembre 2010 - 08:39
GlassDeviant
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In Origins, the werewolves were the tragic victims of one elf's evil act of revenge against their ancestors. If they continued to exist, a natural race (the Dalish Elves) would eventually fall to an unnatural one (the werewolves). Other than destroying them, the only truly "good" option was to remove the curse, through Zathrian's personal sacrifice.
The Darkspawn are another unnatural race, if you can call a mob of horrors created through the corruption of Dwarves, Elves and Humans a "race". To allow the Architect to go ahead with his plan would be to destroy not one, but three natural races, utterly, and supplant them with unnatural creatures. I can't see where there would even be the possibility of a cure or removal of a curse or whatever the darkspawn taint is, since the darkspawn themselves are not corrupted Elves, Dwarves and Humans, they are "born", fully grown, from corrupted females of those races as darkspawn and were never natural creatures.
The Architect is like the Paragon Branka, willing to sacrifice anything and anyone (except of course himself) for his purpose, and his purpose is even less acceptable than Branka's. Branka wanted to sacrifice some Dwarves to save the race of Dwarves, whereas the Architect wants to sacrifice all of the natural races utterly to create a world of nothing but darkspawn and ghouls. That is about as acceptable as the world of Daybreakers.
Humanity thrives on adversity. Two more Blights and what's left of the darkspawn after that is adversity. All of the Humans, Dwarves and Elves being erased from Theldas forever by being turned into ghouls isn't adversity, it's triple genocide.
The Darkspawn are another unnatural race, if you can call a mob of horrors created through the corruption of Dwarves, Elves and Humans a "race". To allow the Architect to go ahead with his plan would be to destroy not one, but three natural races, utterly, and supplant them with unnatural creatures. I can't see where there would even be the possibility of a cure or removal of a curse or whatever the darkspawn taint is, since the darkspawn themselves are not corrupted Elves, Dwarves and Humans, they are "born", fully grown, from corrupted females of those races as darkspawn and were never natural creatures.
The Architect is like the Paragon Branka, willing to sacrifice anything and anyone (except of course himself) for his purpose, and his purpose is even less acceptable than Branka's. Branka wanted to sacrifice some Dwarves to save the race of Dwarves, whereas the Architect wants to sacrifice all of the natural races utterly to create a world of nothing but darkspawn and ghouls. That is about as acceptable as the world of Daybreakers.
Humanity thrives on adversity. Two more Blights and what's left of the darkspawn after that is adversity. All of the Humans, Dwarves and Elves being erased from Theldas forever by being turned into ghouls isn't adversity, it's triple genocide.
#158
Posté 07 décembre 2010 - 10:23
FaeQueenCory
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How is giving a race of mindless autonomatons the ability to CHOOSE to do "good" or "evil" condemning every other race to oblivion? Did you ever think that the whole reason broodmothers generate such a high yeild of darkspawn is because most die either while searching for an Archdemon or during a blight?GlassDeviant wrote...
The Darkspawn are another unnatural race, if you can call a mob of horrors created through the corruption of Dwarves, Elves and Humans a "race". To allow the Architect to go ahead with his plan would be to destroy not one, but three natural races, utterly, and supplant them with unnatural creatures. I can't see where there would even be the possibility of a cure or removal of a curse or whatever the darkspawn taint is, since the darkspawn themselves are not corrupted Elves, Dwarves and Humans, they are "born", fully grown, from corrupted females of those races as darkspawn and were never natural creatures.
Um.... no? His plan originally was to turn everyone into wardens via super blood magic... but if you talk with him and read his diary during DA:OA you find that he's ditched that idea for the opposite. He now plans to force his mindless bretheren into a warden state, rather than forcing beings with free will into one. He realized how it would be wrong of him, and like you said, how it would just be mass genocide to accomplish that deed.GlassDeviant wrote...
The Architect is like the Paragon Branka, willing to sacrifice anything and anyone (except of course himself) for his purpose, and his purpose is even less acceptable than Branka's. Branka wanted to sacrifice some Dwarves to save the race of Dwarves, whereas the Architect wants to sacrifice all of the natural races utterly to create a world of nothing but darkspawn and ghouls. That is about as acceptable as the world of Daybreakers.
Humanity thrives on adversity. Two more Blights and what's left of the darkspawn after that is adversity. All of the Humans, Dwarves and Elves being erased from Theldas forever by being turned into ghouls isn't adversity, it's triple genocide.
And where does he not want to sacrifice himself? He put himself at risk by attempting his joining ritual on Urthemiel. (also need to point out, he KNOWS where the last three Old Gods are... he specifically targeted Urthemiel.... the weakest of all the seven... CLEARLY this indicates he's not just running around all willynilly! He probably picked his test god to be the weakest just in case something went wrong.... and it did.) He put himself at risk when he confronted the Warden. Unlike Branka, who only thought of glory, the Architect seeks freedom from the Song and an end to Blights for his mindless bretheren.
The darkspawn are capable of "good" just as much as any other race. Considering if you let him live the deep roads become eerily quiet and devoid of darkspawn... it's highly likely the darkspawn (who are photosensitive) retreat to the very depths of the deep roads and we would hardly ever see any of them on the surfact.
#159
Posté 07 décembre 2010 - 10:57
GlassDeviant
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The Architect does not sacrifice himself for others benefit, he makes calculated risks, such as going for the weakest of the Old Gods, to attain greater power. This thing is nothing less than a textbook case of a super-villain, in a fantasy world context.
Only the intelligent darkspawn seem to be capable of good, and even then it is rare for them to choose it. The only reason the deep roads become quiet is that they are building up for an inteligent-darkspawn controlled invasion, rather than the normal chaotic boiling forth of a blight.
Hint: This is of course as much theory and speculation as what you have stated. You assume that brood mothers are like any natural creature that breeds in large numbers because of a high mortality rate.
And as I said before, Darkspawn are not a race. They are the product of an unnatural perversion of all of the races.
Only the intelligent darkspawn seem to be capable of good, and even then it is rare for them to choose it. The only reason the deep roads become quiet is that they are building up for an inteligent-darkspawn controlled invasion, rather than the normal chaotic boiling forth of a blight.
Hint: This is of course as much theory and speculation as what you have stated. You assume that brood mothers are like any natural creature that breeds in large numbers because of a high mortality rate.
And as I said before, Darkspawn are not a race. They are the product of an unnatural perversion of all of the races.
#160
Posté 08 décembre 2010 - 12:37
FaeQueenCory
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The only theorizing that I've done was for WHY broodmothers produce a ton of babies and that the Architect picked Urthemiel because of His status as being the weakest. Everything else is from dialog and codexes.
And btw, the darkspawn ARE a race... As much as anything else is. Species would be a better word. Or did God part the heavens and say that all parasites are not creatures in their own right?
And it's not rare for them to choose "good", it's rare for them to think. As Velana's sister said: "they are like children, not knowing right from wrong."
Further this "intelligent invasion" of yours flies in the face of EVERY statement the Architect has made and what a Blight it. Blights are highly organized engines of destruction controlled by an archdemon. The Architect seeks to give darkspawn the ability to think so that their destiny is not preordained and for them to be the same kind of peace between them and the other species of Thedas.
EDIT: damn iphone and its predictive text.
And btw, the darkspawn ARE a race... As much as anything else is. Species would be a better word. Or did God part the heavens and say that all parasites are not creatures in their own right?
And it's not rare for them to choose "good", it's rare for them to think. As Velana's sister said: "they are like children, not knowing right from wrong."
Further this "intelligent invasion" of yours flies in the face of EVERY statement the Architect has made and what a Blight it. Blights are highly organized engines of destruction controlled by an archdemon. The Architect seeks to give darkspawn the ability to think so that their destiny is not preordained and for them to be the same kind of peace between them and the other species of Thedas.
EDIT: damn iphone and its predictive text.
Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:42 .
#161
Posté 08 décembre 2010 - 03:10
errant_knight
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Even if the archdemon is the cause of the blights, and even if darkspawn can become more capable of thought, they still reproduce by turning other species into broodmothers. Their survial is detrimental to the wellbeing of everyone else, no matter what. And for the Architect's plan of making all the darkspawn not hear the archdemon to work, he'd need a lot of blood. I suspect that a blood drive wasn't the plan. For one thing, he either lied about not killing the Orlesian Wardens, or he has so little control over his followers that they did, against his intent, and those followers just killed them for kicks. Both are bad. My feeling is that he only left the warden/companions alive because he wanted them to kill the Mother. The architect's goal is the survival and wellbeing of the darkspawn, and that's not a good thing for the other races of Thedas. All the darkspawn need to die, including the architect.
Modifié par errant_knight, 08 décembre 2010 - 03:13 .
#162
Posté 08 décembre 2010 - 02:16
FaeQueenCory
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While it is true that darkspawn come from broodmothers, and they are created from other species, we do know that there a many broodmothers in the world, and like their bretheren, all they do is mindlessly poop babies. We do know that one brood mother produces many, many, many darkspawn. It's not like they make four and then die. they make millions if not an infinite supply of them. The only reason they make more is because of either the Song, their programming, or both.errant_knight wrote...
Even if the archdemon is the cause of the blights, and even if darkspawn can become more capable of thought, they still reproduce by turning other species into broodmothers. Their survial is detrimental to the wellbeing of everyone else, no matter what. And for the Architect's plan of making all the darkspawn not hear the archdemon to work, he'd need a lot of blood. I suspect that a blood drive wasn't the plan. For one thing, he either lied about not killing the Orlesian Wardens, or he has so little control over his followers that they did, against his intent, and those followers just killed them for kicks. Both are bad. My feeling is that he only left the warden/companions alive because he wanted them to kill the Mother. The architect's goal is the survival and wellbeing of the darkspawn, and that's not a good thing for the other races of Thedas. All the darkspawn need to die, including the architect.
And he didn't lie about killing Bregan. Bregan is the one who told him about where the Archdemons are. And Utha is there, probably constantly giving him blood. So to assume his lied just because you think he's "evil"... is silly. You might as well disbelieve everything anyone says about anything and run around with your eyes closed and your ears plugged in case someone will try and lie to you. (hyperbole, but apt)
And he says why he left the warden and crew alive: he can't attack the Mother. Broodmothers have a rudimentary control over darkspawn, as we saw in DAO. The Mother is using that ability to contol all of her darkspawn awakened and otherwise.. AND is using it to keep the Architect away. Giving a broodmother intelligence was a mistake, and he realizes that. Just like trying his joining ritual on Urthemiel.
His goal, in part, is the survival of the darkspawn... but he repeatedly says that he is looking for a middle ground so that they can coexist with the other people of Thedas.
Yes, the darkspawn are a threat because they are capable of great evil. But so are you and I. Therefore, under that logic, we all should be euthanized because we might just do something bad. And all dogs should be killed because they might attack a human one day. And all life should be expunged because it might just destroy all of the universe! You can't kill things because of what it might do in the future, you can only punish things for what they have done that are socially unacceptable.
Kill those that do bad things, don't just genocide a species. There is no such thing as an "evil" being. Especially not in a game where there is no black and whites, only grays.
#163
Posté 09 décembre 2010 - 08:06
tonnactus
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errant_knight wrote...
The architect's goal is the survival and wellbeing of the darkspawn, and that's not a good thing for the other races of Thedas. .
Should the qunari be wiped out to? All races had wars with eachother.Humans enslaves elves. Orlais conquered Ferelden. The darkspawn would be a danger like any other nations.Not more then before.And just because they were controlled by old gods never meant they were stupid in the past...
Modifié par tonnactus, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:06 .
#164
Posté 08 février 2011 - 01:08
lancelots
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Probably been written before,
But the arch demon comes about from a dragon that has been tainted what happens when Mr. mad scientist Architect taints a dragon smartens it up with wardens blood ad we get the old god super arch demon effect maybe it’s not him that does it but his research leads the way.
Nope bad Darkspawn must die before he lulls humanity into a false sense of security and then wipes us out.
But the arch demon comes about from a dragon that has been tainted what happens when Mr. mad scientist Architect taints a dragon smartens it up with wardens blood ad we get the old god super arch demon effect maybe it’s not him that does it but his research leads the way.
Nope bad Darkspawn must die before he lulls humanity into a false sense of security and then wipes us out.
#165
Posté 22 avril 2011 - 05:40
Corpsman
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In my first awakening play through, I did not killed him because I did not know that he is the one to blame about the corruption of the old god. And I did not see his lies about the grey wardens who was sent to him are already dead.
But in my second play through, I saw a survivor of the grey warden from orlais. The one who gave you his wedding ring to be given to his wife. So yeah, I killed him in the second play through. We will see what will Nate will say about him in DA2.
But in my second play through, I saw a survivor of the grey warden from orlais. The one who gave you his wedding ring to be given to his wife. So yeah, I killed him in the second play through. We will see what will Nate will say about him in DA2.
#166
Posté 22 avril 2011 - 09:34
Deathwurm
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My 1st playthorugh I killed him...I played a Duster, really Good-Guy Warden, and anything Darkspawn had to go.
I'm in the middle of my second playthrough now and my Elf Mage is a bit more Pragmatic and Power Hungry, so we'll see.
I'm in the middle of my second playthrough now and my Elf Mage is a bit more Pragmatic and Power Hungry, so we'll see.
#167
Posté 22 avril 2011 - 10:33
Brawne
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Intelligent living corpses... yeah like that will never come back and bite you in the ass.
*chops off Architect's head*
*chops off Architect's head*
#168
Posté 22 avril 2011 - 07:29
GSSAGE7
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I spared him when I got to the choice, for a few reasons. One thing that really got my attention was something Armaas (the Tal-Vashoth selling things to the Darkspawn) said. If you ask him if he's worried about getting corrupted by the darkspawn taint, he simply says that they have "An agreement." That suggest to me that sentient darkspawn have some way of keeping the taint from spreading. Also, I thought it would be more important to stop the Blights rather than wiping out every darkspawn. I thought he'd be more useful alive. Hell, maybe Avernus (yes, I left him alive too) and him could work together to work things out.
Finally, there's the pragmatic reason. A darkspawn civil war would be a good way to eliminate darkspawn without risking Wardens. If the Warden-Commander never interfered, The Mother and The Architect would've still wasted darkspawn righting each other. Out of the two of them, I'd rather deal with the relatively sane one.
Finally, there's the pragmatic reason. A darkspawn civil war would be a good way to eliminate darkspawn without risking Wardens. If the Warden-Commander never interfered, The Mother and The Architect would've still wasted darkspawn righting each other. Out of the two of them, I'd rather deal with the relatively sane one.
#169
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 10:48
Thine Enemy
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I killed him because he was something/someone to kill. >_>
Death hungry mages, for the win...
Death hungry mages, for the win...
Modifié par Thine Enemy, 26 avril 2011 - 10:49 .
#170
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 02:45
ashez2ashes
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I killed him because his plan conveniently left out the fact that darkspawn still need to drag women off and gang rape them in order to make broodmothers and new darkspawn... Can't see us getting along with that caveat.
#171
Posté 01 juin 2011 - 05:47
jamirflyd2
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Seeing as I read the Calling the day it came out (Great job Mr. Gaider!) lol I already knew how I would feel about the Architect. I slay him in all my playthroughs but I saved him once just to see what would happen but he is not in any of my six canons. He caused the fifth blight, the mother, and infighting with the warden in the Calling! Plus Darkspawn are tainted creatures and always will be regardless if they are smart or insane! 
- Cobra's_back aime ceci
#172
Posté 19 août 2011 - 02:11
scotty1234
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I killed him because he is too secretive, If he really wanted to end the blight he would seek the Grey Warden's out. Granted most would kill him on site, so maybe a letter of some sorts or he can do the Astral Projection thing he did during the Mother fight. But back to my point. I don't trust someone who kidnapped my character, stole their blood and then locked them in a cave with two dragons. I mean REALLY?! How CAN you trust someone like that? And you see how much trouble regular Darkspawn give during a blight. Can you imagine smart darkspawn? They wiped out an entire unit of The Legion of the Dead. Imagine their intelligence increased with the Archdemon's power they would be nearly unstoppable. It would take all of Thedas to fight them back and well.... There is too much tension for that to happen.
#173
Posté 19 août 2011 - 02:33
theskymoves
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I always kill him. He's darkspawn, I'm the Warden. Killing darkspawn is what I do.
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#174
Guest_greengoron89_*
Posté 23 août 2011 - 02:16
Guest_greengoron89_*
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I spared the Architect on my first run through Awakening, out of curiosity more than anything else. On all subsequent playthroughs, however, he dies.
The Architect is simply too dangerous to be left alive and to his own devices. He certainly doesn't lie when he says he wishes to "prevent" Blights - instead, the darkspawn will be able to organize and attack independently of any Archdemon, and thus become an even greater threat than they've ever been (one that will likely be unstoppable at that point).
Even if the Architect's intentions are good (and I truly doubt they are), and the results of his experiments positive, there is nothing to be gained from any of it regardless. The darkspawn will always spread the Blight sickness, will always need to use people from other races as food (as far as I know), and will always require females of other races to reproduce (and we all know the horrors that the females will be forced to endure to that end).
Of course, I also wonder what will happen after the final Archdemon is slain, and no more Old Gods are left for the darkspawn to seek out. Would the Calling not cease on its own, at that point? And if it does, would not all remaining darkspawn "awaken" on their own?
A disturbing thought, that one...
The Architect is simply too dangerous to be left alive and to his own devices. He certainly doesn't lie when he says he wishes to "prevent" Blights - instead, the darkspawn will be able to organize and attack independently of any Archdemon, and thus become an even greater threat than they've ever been (one that will likely be unstoppable at that point).
Even if the Architect's intentions are good (and I truly doubt they are), and the results of his experiments positive, there is nothing to be gained from any of it regardless. The darkspawn will always spread the Blight sickness, will always need to use people from other races as food (as far as I know), and will always require females of other races to reproduce (and we all know the horrors that the females will be forced to endure to that end).
Of course, I also wonder what will happen after the final Archdemon is slain, and no more Old Gods are left for the darkspawn to seek out. Would the Calling not cease on its own, at that point? And if it does, would not all remaining darkspawn "awaken" on their own?
A disturbing thought, that one...
Modifié par greengoron89, 23 août 2011 - 02:19 .
#175
Posté 25 août 2011 - 02:11
naddaya
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I wanted to spare him. Temporarily.
Ally with him to kill the Mother and have the chance to find out what he knows about the nature of the taint, the Old Gods, the Calling and everything. See his experiments.
This is the first true chance to understand the darkspawn instead of killing them mechanically. I wished to understand. Before eradicating their kind. Pity.
Riordan said darkspawn don't have souls. Yet they can "awaken", and tainted humans may end up as mindless ghouls. We don't know much about the blights, we only know how to stop them. And then what, after all the Old Gods are killed?
Ah, ****.
Ally with him to kill the Mother and have the chance to find out what he knows about the nature of the taint, the Old Gods, the Calling and everything. See his experiments.
This is the first true chance to understand the darkspawn instead of killing them mechanically. I wished to understand. Before eradicating their kind. Pity.
Riordan said darkspawn don't have souls. Yet they can "awaken", and tainted humans may end up as mindless ghouls. We don't know much about the blights, we only know how to stop them. And then what, after all the Old Gods are killed?
Ah, ****.
Modifié par m_k, 25 août 2011 - 08:32 .
