238 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrax Lightning]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

Sometimes I will supplement the remarks I add as comments to these threads / articles with PMs.  I have done that with regard to the 9800 GT Low Profile card(s).  I would worry about power because the typical slimline box doesn't have ATX-class power from a smaller power supply, and the slimline box doesn't have comparable cooling air flow for a (comparatively) powerful video card. 

Incidentally, Tyrax. you mentioned some kind of FAQ about power supplies yesterday, I think.  I checked, and there was already about as much information on those in the primary PC Hardware Basics article, as I know about them, with the exception of the names for quality brands, and I have added those now.  

Gorath
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Ahh, so it's already covered? Sorry, didn't know.

[Gorath Alpha]

Not to worry. It's a worthwhile subject that I should spend more time learning about, however, I just can't generate the motivation (seems too boring!)

[Tyrax Lightning]

Why not? It seems like how good a PSU ya can stick into your Case is appearing to be directly important to Graphics Card selection. After all, if ya can't keep your Graphics Card powered, then you're not gonna get to play anything, not even MineSweeper.

It's kinda sad that there seems to be so few PSU that are good on Amps.

[ShinsFortress]

There are good PSUs available, but you need to pay. Too many people are easily snared (gullible? discuss...) to sacrifice disproportionate amounts of their money at the twin altars of CPU and GPU, with occasional killings for sound cards and memory...

[Magnus of the Moon]

OK, another question about the numbering system. It was stated previously that a gaming card would have n600 or greater, so 8600, 8800...etc. But, I found on another list that indicates the 9500GT and the HD4550 as high end mediums. I think it was the ladder list that indicates game play for Oblivion.



Can someone clarify this.



Thanks.

[Gorath Alpha]

Not the King originated the long rankings list for games such as Oblivion with a high level of shader code (SM2 in Oblivion's case, not SM3). That game is close to four years old and its hardware demands were at least a year ahead of anything else that year. Nevertheless, we are now referring to terminology that NTK used that applies to three-year old hardware.

He stopped updating his lists at Bethesda over a year ago, but were still useful for NWN2 and Fallout 3, so I have done my best to expand them, without remaking his lists entirely.

Anything that was Medium three or four years ago has slipped down to at least the borderline zone into Low End now. High medium is now Low Medium. The 8600 GT was actually in the middle of Medium when new, maybe slightly lower than dead center. It has been CLONED two years ago to create a 9500 GT -- still the same silicon design, just a new, and thinner, die wafer.

The HD 4550 is currently on the Low End side of the borderline zone into Medium.

[Tyrax Lightning]

Well i'll be buggered. The Graphics Card I got has been outta stock for ages. I just discovered that it's gotta little brother: SAPPHIRE 100245HDMI Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card.

It's got 1/2 the Memory Size (512MB) but is otherwise little different. In exchange, it's roughly $18ish bucks cheaper. (As of the time of this Post.)

I wonder if NewEgg is postponing on restocking my Graphics Card choice until these buggers get sold up?

Modifié par Tyrax Lightning, 06 mars 2010 - 03:57 .

[Gorath Alpha]

There have been four single-core variations of the top RV700 cards: the 4830, 4850, 4860, and 4870.  The two extremes, HD 4830, and HD 4870, at different times, have really been good values for thr prices. 

I meant to include this last night, here itt is, eight hours later: www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

On a one to one basis, I like GPU Review's comparison layout, where you can very easily see the differences as well as the similarities.  I have had HD 3850s, and one HD 3870 (I do have several PCs here).  My 4850 is my newest, but I will probably replace the last 3850 still in use with either another 4850, or (depending on my budget when I am ready) a 4870. 

(And yes, to the Green Team, there is a Geforce 8800 in a system as well, but it's actually a relatively recent acquisition compared to the Radeons named already, and replaced a 7900 GT.)

Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 05 mars 2010 - 02:36 .

[MyassesHam]

My ATI HD 3470 (256mb) is able to run the character creator fine, but will it hold up on medium settings for the actual game?

[Gorath Alpha]

MyassesHam wrote...

My ATI HD 3470 (256mb) is able to run the character creator fine, but will it hold up on medium settings for the actual game?

It's a 64 bit card, which really makes it problematic.  The Character Creator includes far too little from a real game for it to help predict how the game can "run".  My personal opinion is it would "Walk Slowly", not really RUN.

Incidentally, because it's very slow, and has slow RAM, with a 64 bit memory system, it cannot actually use over 128 MBs while attempting to run games using the current graphics technologies. 

You can visit Toms hardware and see where it falls in Fallout 3, which is at least somewhat similar in video demands.

I haven't included it here (below Mainline), and I don't think it's in the longer list from NotTheKing, but it might be. 

Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 06 mars 2010 - 04:30 .

[Tyrax Lightning]

MyassesHam wrote...

My ATI HD 3470 (256mb) is able to run the character creator fine, but will it hold up on medium settings for the actual game?

Psst... check out my SAPPHIRE Link above.

[Gorath Alpha]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

MyassesHam wrote...

My ATI HD 3470 (256mb) is able to run the character creator fine, but will it hold up on medium settings for the actual game?

It's a 64 bit card, which really makes it problematic.  The Character Creator includes far too little from a real game for it to help predict how the game can "run".  My personal opinion is it would "Walk Slowly", not really RUN.

Incidentally, because it's very slow, and has slow RAM, with a 64 bit memory system, it cannot actually use over 128 MBs while attempting to run games using the current graphics technologies. 

You can visit Toms hardware and see where it falls in Fallout 3, which is at least somewhat similar in video demands.

I haven't included it here (it's below Mainline), and I don't think it's in the longer list from NotTheKing, but it might be. 

Comparing an HD 3470 with an HD 4350, the two look about equal at first, both inadequate but the numbers are:

The HD 3470 trailed the X850 Pro at only 50%, 39%, and 53% of the performance offered by the card named as the official minimum Radeon video card.  Less than half as good, in other words. 

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

The HD 4350 can manage 24%, 30%, and 78% of the performance numbers, which seems to amount to about 40% as good, overall, and worse than the card a year older than itself by quite a bit, as well. 

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php


Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 14 mars 2010 - 06:26 .

[Tyrax Lightning]

I've been meaning to ask this for days now, & I finally managed to remember to ask: I've learned here on the Social Site about the importance of the 12V Rail Amps, but I wonder, i've noticed that there's a '+12V Rail' & a '-12V Rail'. Do both need the strong Amps? I've noticed some PSUs have fierce amounts of Amps on the +12V Rail, but abysmal Amps on the -12V Rail. It got me wondering...

[Gorath Alpha]

The negative side is essentially unnecessary to include in any purchasing decisions involving quality brands. Only the positive side is important. It's among the things I also have been somewhat curious about myself (why it is named anywhere at all, if no hardware we are concerned with ever uses it).

[Popeandy]

I have a BFG 280 GTX pre 1.3 patch ran flawlessly. Post 1.3 patch and it runs like garbage and crashes after a few minutes. Similar to the issues GTAIV was having on the PC. Hardware is not the issue. Temps are not the issue. Drivers are all up to date. Just throwing another post out there hoping Bioware will finally see what a huge screw up the patch is and fix it.

[Tyrax Lightning]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

The negative side is essentially unnecessary to include in any purchasing decisions involving quality brands. Only the positive side is important. It's among the things I also have been somewhat curious about myself (why it is named anywhere at all, if no hardware we are concerned with ever uses it).

Many thanks! Makes one wonder why a '-' Rail would even need any Amps...

[Menageryl]

This game is definitely VERY forgiving graphically!



I'm playing it on a 17-inch Unibody MacBook Pro (1920x1200 screen) which comes with a clock-lowered NVidia 9600M GT - which is already a slower-clocked 9600 with half (read 128-bit) the bus-width of it's desktop namesake... And I can run this game on 1600x1050 as long as I keep AA to x2 and reduce graphic-quality to medium instead of high. Everything else is maxed-out, and I get FPS that is more than just acceptable. I've had brief dips to around 25FPS in the most intensive scenes, but even then only briefly.

Of course I have manually edited the performance of the card to force it to (more-or-less) what is essentially NVidia factory-defaults, instead of Apple's neutered standards.



I just thought that this information might prove enlightening or interesting to someone here... Y'all seem to really geek-out to some of the technical nitty-gritty, so... :-)



~Menageryl

[Tyrax Lightning]

Menageryl wrote...

This game is definitely VERY forgiving graphically!

I'm playing it on a 17-inch Unibody MacBook Pro (1920x1200 screen) which comes with a clock-lowered NVidia 9600M GT - which is already a slower-clocked 9600 with half (read 128-bit) the bus-width of it's desktop namesake... And I can run this game on 1600x1050 as long as I keep AA to x2 and reduce graphic-quality to medium instead of high. Everything else is maxed-out, and I get FPS that is more than just acceptable. I've had brief dips to around 25FPS in the most intensive scenes, but even then only briefly.
Of course I have manually edited the performance of the card to force it to (more-or-less) what is essentially NVidia factory-defaults, instead of Apple's neutered standards.

I just thought that this information might prove enlightening or interesting to someone here... Y'all seem to really geek-out to some of the technical nitty-gritty, so... :-)

~Menageryl

Ya make that sound like a bad thing!

[Menageryl]

Hehe... Not something I have any particular issue with. Not if I'm ever to learn to live with myself that is! :-)

[Gorath Alpha]

For the fanboys who wear Green socks every day, not just St. Paddy's, nVIDIA will supposedly release the GTX 470 and GTX 480 on Friday, Match 26th at 7:00 PM -- their first new generation video in over a year and a half ("Fermi", GF100).   MSRP for the GTX 480 = $499. 

For everyone else, whether they wear red socks or not, look how seriously nVIDIA is taking the threat from the APU (due out in Engineering sample quantities in less than a year). 

www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html

The GPU as a replacement for Intel's CPU is where they are going if the Mainline Video card market collapses, as it may well do.  The Low End and High End parts of the market produce far less income, due to low sales numbers on the expensive cards, and very small profit margins on the Low End parts.  PC producers selling AMD solutions will have the opportunity to sell a combined CPU with integrated full-power Mainline Level graphics included, for a rather low incremental cost over a CPU without the graphics, and eventually, Intel will figure out a way to convince sellers to use the Intel competition for the APU, whether it is actually truly competitive or not.

P. S.  Two added facts leaked before the official release hour -- well, one more, since the count of transistors seems to have been a matter of public record for quite some time.  The new chips will be setting new records for high TDP numbers.  (About 300 watts for the 480 all by itself.)

(Many months later, added segment.  I didn't believe that such a long span of time had passed in this thread without any mention of AMD's "Fusion", so I suppose I'll write a new comment onto the end here, after all.  There have been some things happening that I want to show up now.  I suppose it's the other two articles in the trio that have newer discussions of the Radeon APUs for 2011.)

Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 02 décembre 2010 - 09:45 .

[Tyrax Lightning]

Read much of the link. Bet ya'all $10 that those cards are gonna have a 4 digit price tag & only be affordable by government & corporate CEOs. Maybe high rank scientists.

[Gorath Alpha]

Tyrax Lightning wrote...

Read much of the link. Bet ya'all $10 that those cards are gonna have a 4 digit price tag & only be affordable by government & corporate CEOs. Maybe high rank scientists.

The only Radeon HD 5970 (dual core, "X2") I could find with Price Grabber Friday night was at $900, so we can bet on a dual core GTX 480 ("580"?) costing as much! 

G

[nesnajkneh]

Hey Guys,



I've got a problem with my video card, when i try to start the game it says "failed to detect a supported video card"



but i've got a ATI Radeon 9800 pro with the latest drivers installed...Also in the configuration utility it's all ok. But when i try to start the game it gives this message...



can anyone help me? ideas? very weird problem to me...

[Gorath Alpha]

The official minimum is pixel shaders SM-3 from Dx9, not SM-2.  The Xn00 generation's higher end had Dx9.0"b", for the first part of SM-3.  The older Rad3eon 9n00 cards, from 9500 to 9800, were SM-2, from Dx9.0"a". 

You'll need to upgrade everything, I am sure.  PCs that have video cards that old don't have enough RAM, the CPUs they have are too slow, and the motherboards in them won't accept the current DDR3 RAM, PCIe video, or dual core CPUs (well, not the ones still available for purchase new, at least). 

Look at the first page of the thread, where I already told everyone that the Radeon 9n00s didn't have SM-3. 

Gorath
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[Gorath Alpha]

Victor Wachter started some new stickies, and amalgamated the old ones,
and I was scanning through the additional comments that various members
here added to one of them.  At least 30 %, possibly 40 %, of the comments
that included the long litany of XML code he asked for were from people with
no valid complaint, because they had ignored the system requairements to
try running with old, or low-powered, video cards and even onboard video
devices, so I think that my own topic,"How to REALLY Report a Problem on
a PC may be getting better data.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/2154638

HD 3470 > HD 4350 > 9400 GT > 8500 GT > Geforce 210 > HD 2400XT > X1300 Pro > X1550 > 7300 GT > 6600 Vanilla > HD 3450 > 9300 GS > 8400 GS > 7300 GS > HD 2400Pro > 8300 GS > X1300 > 7300 LE > X550 > 7200 GS > X300 > 9550 > X1050 > X300 SE > Xpress200 (IGP) > 7100 GS > 6200A.

That last is part of the crap level (gaming orientation) that I never include as being ranked, as such. 

Gorath
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Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 11 avril 2010 - 10:56 .