51 réponses à ce sujet

[El Jueta]

Crap. I passed the redcliffe quest without knowing that the demon would give me the BM specialization. Serves me right for being all paragon of light. ******.

[mosspit]

If you don't mind it, you can still load up a previous save pre desire demon and follow thru with her deal. After which BM will still be unlocked, even for your most current save.

[El Jueta]

hmm well i'll see if i have one but i doubt it, i already did andraste's ashes after that, I only remembered to check it online now. Thanks for the advice though. I'll make sure not to miss AW in the brecillian forest now

[Zilod]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Fire4 (Inferno) is fairly worthless. Sure, the AoE potential is good, but it has zero crowd control and a long cast time. So, once you drop it, the enemies simply run out of it before it can do enough damage (and usually get in your face). Same applies to Lightning3 (Tempest).
Ice4 (Blizzard), on the other hand, is fantastic, because it CCs the targets while doing damage.
Lightning4 (Chain Lightning) is godawful by default. However, there is a mod out there that improves the damage and removes the casting time from it. Now THAT is a Tier 4 spell! Modded Chain Lightning wrecks a very nice amount of face (yours included, if you are on the receiving end) without being overpowered - it hits harder than the fireball, but lacks the CC component of it.

well i will not call inferno worthless, is just that you have to set it up right... but if you know how to setup various aoe they are pretty powerfull spells, you can pretty much whipe whole rooms whitout much troubles you have just to know how to use them properly.

instead i agree on chain lighning... is so crappy and totally skippable...

i also disagree (other post) about to get only ice or fire... had my nuker with ice, fire and lightning (with hexes ofc) and just with cones she was melting everything that came near... well alistair included lol

the lines in primal are kinda similar but that doesnt mean you have to just get one and forget the other, some works quite well togather, ofc if you focus on cc you dont need all of them, but for a more offensive caster is nice to be able to chain cones on enemies or to use the high level aoe spells that works pretty well togather

[El Jueta]

Well I got the AW specialization, but I'm going to take only lvl1 to use some armor and still be able to be a normal caster. Next task, defeating the high dragon so I can get wade to make me the dragonskin armor. Which will be a pain in the *** in the X360 to get my party at a distance =(

[Addai]

El Jueta wrote...

Well I got the AW specialization, but I'm going to take only lvl1 to use some armor and still be able to be a normal caster. Next task, defeating the high dragon so I can get wade to make me the dragonskin armor. Which will be a pain in the *** in the X360 to get my party at a distance =(

If you can afford it, Evon the Great Mail from Wade's shop will give item set bonus with the medium dragonscale armor (edit:  I meant the heavy armor, not the dragonskin) and you get good stats.  This is what my AW wears.

I don't use the melee of AW very often, but it's a nice backup.  I usually equip a staff and switch weapon sets just like an archer would, casting in between.  It helps to look at Arcane Warrior Spellcasting on the wiki to see what spells can be cast with weapon drawn.  Blood Wound, Virulent Walking Bomb, Crushing Prison, all good.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 avril 2010 - 12:49 .

[DWSmiley]

Zilod wrote...

well i will not call inferno worthless, is just that you have to set it up right... but if you know how to setup various aoe they are pretty powerfull spells, you can pretty much whipe whole rooms whitout much troubles you have just to know how to use them properly.

instead i agree on chain lighning... is so crappy and totally skippable...

i also disagree (other post) about to get only ice or fire... had my nuker with ice, fire and lightning (with hexes ofc) and just with cones she was melting everything that came near... well alistair included lol

the lines in primal are kinda similar but that doesnt mean you have to just get one and forget the other, some works quite well togather, ofc if you focus on cc you dont need all of them, but for a more offensive caster is nice to be able to chain cones on enemies or to use the high level aoe spells that works pretty well togather

True that.  In fact, the challenge is not how to build a strong mage.  Once you've played for a while, the challenge is to not let magic turn every fight into a trivially easy win...

[El Jueta]

Well I can't buy anything from Wade's shop, because I already did superior drakeskin armor and pissed off his assistant, so I'll have to kill a dragon ^^

[beancounter501]

Strongest Mage Spells:
Cold: First three spells to Cone of Cold
Earth: First two spells - Rock Armor + Stonefist for Shattering
Glyph Line: First three
Mana Line: Mana Clash + Spell Might are very good.
Nature: Spell Wisp + Stinging Swarm
Hex: First two Hex. Combined they almost double your damage

Arcane Warrior: Combat Magic! Wearing Evons + Dragon Scale or Calian's Armor
Blood Magic: Blound Wound
Spirit Heal: Through Revial

Notable Mentions:
Fire: Through Fire Ball
Paralysis: Through Mass Paralyze

Modifié par beancounter501, 01 avril 2010 - 02:43 .

[Zilod]

beancounter501 wrote...

Strongest Mage Spells:
Cold: First three spells to Cone of Cold
Earth: First two spells - Rock Armor + Stonefist for Shattering
Glyph Line: First three
Mana Line: Mana Clash + Spell Might are very good.
Nature: Spell Wisp + Stinging Swarm
Hex: First two Hex. Combined they almost double your damage

Arcane Warrior: Combat Magic! Wearing Evons + Dragon Scale or Calian's Armor
Blood Magic: Blound Wound
Spirit Heal: Through Revial

Notable Mentions:
Fire: Through Fire Ball
Paralysis: Through Mass Paralyze

good thing about dao magic is that many lines are quite balanced, personally i will remove a few from this list and add some others (as sleep, crushing prison and some others too) but this because as said there are many good lines and not clear "winning" spells

if anithing i think a common mistake is to go for what are perceived as the "best spells" whitout having any idea about how to build the mage... going for this and that spell whitout a plan in mind just because they are said to be "powerfull" can lead to a mage that is not good at anything in particular and risk to stand still there after he cast a few spells, because most of your spells are powerfull but quite specific and you have nothing up usefull atm.

personally i find way more effective to build casters with a solid idea behind them... a nuker? go with primal and DD spells (and hexes ) a cc? go with entrophy and other usefull lines as glyphs/ice/fields and so on... this way i think you end with overall better and more usefull builds all extremely viable... in all the mages i played i have to find yet a weak build, even if they are all pretty different and play quite differently

[beancounter501]

Indeed, there are many great spells and it all depends on your playstyle. However, I feel you can not go wrong with the spells I listed. As for my playstyle I like to build "Generalist" mages with a mix of nuking and crowd control. I find Blood Wound, Cone of Cold, Paralysis Explosion(Glyph Combo) and Mass Paralyze gives you more then enough CC.



Cone of Cold is the best spell in the game. As long as you make sure each party member has an automatic crit ability. You can freeze and shatter an easy 3 to 5 critters with every casting. And you can do it every 15 seconds. It makes really hard encounters very easy.



The glyph is also one of the best lines.



I left off Crushing Prison simply because it has a very loooonnnggg cooldown. You will score far more kills with a simple CoC + Shatter or Stinging Swarm. Who cares if you can kill 1 dude per battle. The sleep line is decent, but I think the other CC spells I listed are better.

[mosspit]

VentraleStar wrote...

the glyph of neutraliztion is in fact very good to get if you don't want to waste 3 points just to get the overrated, fun drowning, mana clash.

I don't see why it is overrated. It is a good situation spell against 20-30% of enemies. You can look at it another way. The game balances this powerful spell by placing 2 not-so-good spells in the same line. As beancounter stated, Spell Might is not useless but its just more difficult to manage/maintain. After all any mages who just been glyphed will also be made useless and waiting to be melee'd dead. I rather mana clash the mage and get it over with.

Modifié par mosspit, 02 avril 2010 - 09:35 .

[beancounter501]

I have played around with both the Glyph of Neutralization and Mana Clash. The Glyph is like a poor mans Mana Clash. Mana Clash does one job and it does it VERY well. Probably too good. It does take a lot of the fun out of the game. Ha, after dropping Gaxkang with Mana Clash, I reloaded and killed him the old fashion way - by sticking 3 feet of steel in him!

[Zilod]

VentraleStar wrote...

the glyph of neutraliztion is in fact very good to get if you don't want to waste 3 points just to get the overrated, fun drowning, mana clash.

glyph of neutralization is good if you dont want to get mana clash and have alredy invested in glyphs, but in no way is anywhere near mana clash

mana clash one shot every mage in the game have a good aoe (good for the fights with multiple mages) and is instant too building it right you can pretty much one shot orange mages that are probably the most difficult fights in the game

also there are other ways to deal with mages, the field line is still quite good even after the nerf, same as blood wound or death combo (with sleep as opener) that can one shot yellows

about cone of cold as best spell in the game... well it depends, it is indeed one of my fav spells but, for example, for a CC tool if i have to chose i'll take sleep over it

[mosspit]

Sleep is really good... but only if used in conjunction with waking nightmare and horror. On its own, it is not impressive aside from instacast and AoE. Plus it is not applicable against all enemies. I will say that the sleep line if used together is very fun but not too overpowered.

CoC on the other hand can be used against all enemies. Blood Wound is also better than sleep on its own.

[Zilod]

mosspit wrote...

Sleep is really good... but only if used in conjunction with waking nightmare and horror. On its own, it is not impressive aside from instacast and AoE. Plus it is not applicable against all enemies. I will say that the sleep line if used together is very fun but not too overpowered.
CoC on the other hand can be used against all enemies. Blood Wound is also better than sleep on its own.

sleep as a stand alone CC can be a bit dangerous, you have to manage your party or they will wake up half the mobs, sleep really shine as an opener to set up hexes, aoe or even stronger cc as mass par, the combos (horror combo does some good dmg) are a nice pluss.

its problem are mobs invul to it, but are not that many in the end... vs blood wound... blood wound is generally better as cant be broken and deal dmg too, but it also cost a bit more  so sleep can still be helpfull as opener and the 2 spells dont rule out each other they actually complement each other pretty well

(btw i'm not saying that sleep is the best spell in the game, as said above i think there are many good spells and not just a "best one", sleep is an example of a spell that many times is overlooked but can be veeeery good if used right)

[mosspit]

Hmm i dunno... For me, I dun really need to CC in order to setup hexes. For AoEs, I have only used earthquake and Blood Wound to setup/hold. After all, sleep only effectively covers the setup time for AoEs but does not provide the holding power to keep them in.

It is your preference. But comparing sleep vs CoC, I find sleep a tad disadvantaged.

[lazuli]

mosspit wrote...

It is your preference. But comparing sleep vs CoC, I find sleep a tad disadvantaged.

Apples to oranges.  They both have their strengths.

Cone of Cold: Damage, Shattering, Not Ended by Damage, Short Recharge
Sleep: Long Range, Wider Area, Duration, Synergizes with Horror

[mosspit]

Lazuli wrote...

Apples to oranges.  They both have their strengths.

If you read properly you wold have realized i basing my opinions on CC. So its not apples vs oranges (nice coloring tho i guess). Zilod seemed to suggest Sleep is better than CoC in that aspect and that is the angle where i was coming from - I dun agree that Sleep is a better CC than CoC (or Blood Wound).

Modifié par mosspit, 03 avril 2010 - 06:56 .

[beancounter501]

Have to agree with mosspit. CoC and Bound Wound beats Sleep in day of the week for CC. My opinion of course. Open with Aflection Hex then Blood Wound. After that cast Vulnerability Hex on any Yellow/Oragne mobs. All the while your melee tons are pounding the crap out of everything. Use CoC and stinging swarm for close quarters clean up. Rinse and repeat every 20 seconds. Trivalizes most encounters.



I have tried going the sleep -vulnerability hex - afflection hex - Horror, but the target mob would wake up half the time because some part member attacked him. Or worse my mage would cast sleep and then immediately staff attack a target. Grr, annoying and too much effort when Blood Wound levels the field hassle free.

[lazuli]

mosspit wrote...

If you read properly you wold have realized i basing my opinions on CC. So its not apples vs oranges (nice coloring tho i guess). Zilod seemed to suggest Sleep is better than CoC in that aspect and that is the angle where i was coming from - I dun agree that Sleep is a better CC than CoC (or Blood Wound).

I still think my admittedly lame comment holds.  Apples and oranges are both fruit, just as CoC and Sleep are both crowd control spells.  But it's silly to argue about this.  Forgive my tone.

Let me just say that I love using both, and I would have to agree that Sleep is not better than CoC, and worse than Blood Wound.

[lazuli]

beancounter501 wrote...

I have tried going the sleep -vulnerability hex - afflection hex - Horror, but the target mob would wake up half the time because some part member attacked him. Or worse my mage would cast sleep and then immediately staff attack a target. Grr, annoying and too much effort when Blood Wound levels the field hassle free.

I find Sleep works best when you set it up with proper AI tactics.  Give your backline characters the tactic to attack the target of your Warrior.  If you have room, throw in a tactic for your Mage to cast Horror on sleeping targets.  Both of these tactics can help minimize early awakening.

The immediate staff attack after casting Sleep is maddening though.

[mosspit]

No problem. I just never knew the good 'ol apples vs oranges can be used in the context as you did.

[Zilod]

mosspit wrote...

Lazuli wrote...

Apples to oranges.  They both have their strengths.

If you read properly you wold have realized i basing my opinions on CC. So its not apples vs oranges (nice coloring tho i guess). Zilod seemed to suggest Sleep is better than CoC in that aspect and that is the angle where i was coming from - I dun agree that Sleep is a better CC than CoC (or Blood Wound).

i said that if i had to chose between coc and sleep for a CC build i'll go with sleep, coc is a veeeery good spells (and one of my fav too) but for my taste, if i have to chose i go with sleep as it have area, duration, range and is instat and that permit to use it as a fantastic opener to build up combos

if i have a frontline mage, with cones and such instead i will go for coc as it hit everything and gives enought time to use other cones (that have same area)

so yup, apples to oranges, my statement was made for coc as the "best spell in the game" to try to show that there is not really a "best spell" you can pretty much have a builds whitout coc and dont miss it at all