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The Female and Male Renegade (VA and Character Interpretation)


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#1
Blackveldt

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I think one of the greatest things that Bioware has to offer is variety.  Which leads me (specifically) to the Renegade Female and Renegade Male.  Just to get this out of the way, they both deliver just fine; both have great moments, but this is not a thread to compare the two.  At least, not in the sense that VA1 > VA2 or vise versa.  This is a thread to gather your takes/interpretations on them.

The male/female Renegades have their own unique 'flavor,' so to speak.  What sense did you get from the male or female Renegade as a whole?  When you think of the female Renegade, what comes to your mind?  Is she cold and calculating to you?  What kinds of things do you imagine her doing?  Obviously, part of this is how you play and interpret your Renegade (assuming you did), but I suppose I do want to have some focus on how the actors themselves approached it (or how you felt they approached it) as well simply because I find this combination most interesting.

To start, I found the male Renegade to be very sarcastic, delivering his lines in a nonchalant and even-toned way, which led me to see him as a consistent and intimidating man.  When I say 'consistent,' I am talking specifically of his approach.  If I get into a confrontation with him, I feel that I can get to that nobody-gets-killed-or-hurt outcome if I cooperate or if I act in a certain way.  If I don't cooperate, then I would fully expect the predictable response of getting my arse thoroughly whooped or worse--but not more than necessary.  It seems more like a job than anything--even to the extent of interaction with the crew and his subordinates--and he wants to get that job done both quickly and efficiently, but will also settle for a timely manner (if he feels he has to or if it's reasonable enough).  Male Renegade also seemed to look at the world through perhaps more optimistic eyes and therefore, with a dark sense of humor.  When he says a line, he is being both serious and humorous--and knows it.  Even if he's about to kill the person to whom he is speaking the line.

The first word that comes to mind when I think of the female Renegade is 'evil.'  Yes, evil.  She delivers her lines in a range of emotion (snarky, exasperated, cold, sadistic, sarcastic, etc) that gives me the impression that she is consistent in her approach, but unstable in the outcome.  What I mean is that I feel as if I can always expect her to be mean in some way, even if it's unnecessary, but unsure as to the extent.  If I ****** her off, I expect punishment in some form, but I don't know in what form it would take.  She could push me out of a window, shoot me in the foot, or simply tell me I'm a moron and to leave.  I have no problem imagining her killing someone at a moment's notice with a smile on her face (followed up by some snarky remark).  It is a job for the female Renegade, and a very serious one at that, but because she takes it so seriously, it also presents itself as a chore (when things get in her way).  And in turn, because of this, I feel as if she wants to get things done as fast and efficient as possible, showing her distress and urgency when this does not happen.  Finally, the female Renegade seems more of a pessimist and even though she may say something humorous in a dire situation, she's saying it to be more indimidating, not intending for it to be humorous at all (except perhaps to herself in certain situations).

In any case, I thought it'd be a relatively interesting discussion to see what everyone else thought.  And if you feel you can contribute to the discussion by sharing your take on Paragon Male and/or Paragon Female instead, then by all means, do so.  I focused on the Renegade because I found it much more interesting and the interpretations more different between the two genders.

Modifié par Blackveldt, 30 mars 2010 - 06:34 .


#2
Rive Caedo

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Your take on Male Renegade is dead on I'd say, but you go a bit past what I'd say about Female Renegage.

Evil? No no. Results driven? Inpatient? Sure.

Male Shepard has fun - he's the best and knows it. Female Shepard is driven - she's the best and PROVES it.

#3
Blackveldt

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Ah, allow me to clarify. Darth Vader is evil; female Renegade is not. I said 'evil' as more a joke than anything in my (obviously fail) attempt to emphasize the coldness of her character.



You put it very well and succinctly.

#4
casedawgz

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It really does sound like Meer is having fun doing those lines.

#5
EyesOfAmbition2

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When I think of a renegade male, I think of the moment when he breaks into Nassana's office and starts pretending he's being paid to assassinate her in order to amuse himself and manipulate her.



When I think of a renegade female, I think of the moment when she goes back to Forvan on Omega (after being poisoned), and forces him to "take his own medicine."

#6
Siansonea

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Considering the dialogue for MR Shapard and FR Shepard is essentially identical, I see no real variance other than 'tone' of voice acting. Male Renegade Shepard seems more arbitrary, less intense in tone than Female Renegade Shepard. She is driven and implacable, he is merely self-serving or just aggressive. I think the difference in perception is based on societal norms which allow much more freedom of aggressive expression for males on the whole, whereas females who are aggressive are often criticized or otherwised discouraged to display such tendencies. That's my theory anyway.

#7
spacehamsterZH

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Yeah, male renegade is kind of a wisecracking jerk/bully and comes across as slightly more lighthearted. The female is just a cold-hearted b*tch who doesn't give a damn about anyone.

#8
Mutantcadet14

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I haven't gotten around to playing a femshep yet so i can't really comment on that but i have spent some time playing male renegade and though i never namely thought about it that way i too feel you are spot on.

As someone who has been criticized for being too sarcastic this makes sense. Many times my renegade male has taken the words right out from my mouth in a sence. There are bumper stickers that define sarcasm as the body's natural reaction to stupidity andi feel the male renegade would agree.

EyesOfAmbition2 wrote...

When I think of a renegade male, I think of the moment when he breaks into Nassana's office and starts pretending he's being paid to assassinate her in order to amuse himself and manipulate her.

When I think of a renegade female, I think of the moment when she goes back to Forvan on Omega (after being poisoned), and forces him to "take his own medicine."


Again, I cannot comment on the femshep but the male example is a great one. He is A) amused by her ignorance/stupidity and B) readily tries to take advantage of it.


Siansonea II wrote...

Considering the dialogue for MR Shapard and FR Shepard is essentially identical, I see no real variance other than 'tone' of voice acting. Male Renegade Shepard seems more arbitrary, less intense in tone than Female Renegade Shepard. She is driven and implacable, he is merely self-serving or just aggressive. I think the difference in perception is based on societal norms which allow much more freedom of aggressive expression for males on the whole, whereas females who are aggressive are often criticized or otherwised discouraged to display such tendencies. That's my theory anyway.


You're a girl right?

I don't feel the difference is in the "societal norms" nearly as much as just meer came into the role ready to be a cocky sarcastic *** where hale (the femshep VA) was ready to play a more actively cruel role. Could this make the renegade female "more renegade" than the male? maybe. Do I like that they play the role differently? Absolutely.

#9
T3hMerc

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Hale is better at Voice Acting. End of Story. She also comes across as MUCH more of a psychotic then Meer.

#10
OniGanon

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I think a good line to show their contrast is outside the Omega slums where they ask, "Do I look like a looter?" Meer makes it sound like he's pointing out the blatantly obvious and basically calling the Turian an idiot. Hale makes her voice all low and whispery and makes it sound like she's threatening to tear the Turian's spine out. Assuming Turians have spines.

Modifié par OniGanon, 31 mars 2010 - 02:38 .


#11
casedawgz

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OniGanon wrote...

I think a good line to show their contrast is outside the Omega slums where they ask, "Do I look like a looter?" Meer makes it sound like he's pointing out the blatantly obvious and basically calling the Turian an idiot. Hale makes her voice all low and whispery and makes it sound like she's threatening to tear the Turian's spine out. Assuming Turians have spines.


Meer's all "No, you're an idiot. I'm obviously not a looter."

Hale's all "No, I'm obviously a Sith Lord."

#12
Cascadus

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I think they're just two different types of Renegades. Hale comes off as a no-nonsense, easily annoyed coldhearted ******, whereas Renegade Meer just has absolute fun in his Renegade-ness. He knows he's a badass and he revels in it.

It's all in the delivery.

#13
Blackveldt

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Mutantcadet14 wrote...

Again, I cannot comment on the femshep but the male example is a great one. He is A) amused by her ignorance/stupidity and B) readily tries to take advantage of it.


I agree; in fact, when femShep says the same line, "Maybe I just missed you..." it sounds threatening as opposed to maleShep's amusement.

Mutantcadet14 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Considering the dialogue for MR Shapard and FR Shepard is essentially identical, I see no real variance other than 'tone' of voice acting. Male Renegade Shepard seems more arbitrary, less intense in tone than Female Renegade Shepard. She is driven and implacable, he is merely self-serving or just aggressive. I think the difference in perception is based on societal norms which allow much more freedom of aggressive expression for males on the whole, whereas females who are aggressive are often criticized or otherwised discouraged to display such tendencies. That's my theory anyway.


You're a girl right?

I don't feel the difference is in the "societal norms" nearly as much as just meer came into the role ready to be a cocky sarcastic *** where hale (the femshep VA) was ready to play a more actively cruel role. Could this make the renegade female "more renegade" than the male? maybe. Do I like that they play the role differently? Absolutely.


You're a boy, right?  (Ah lol; I could not resist.)

In any case, you are absolutely right that the different VA approaches obviously impacted our perceptions of the characters significantly.

But I think Siansonea was specifically referring to how we, the gamers, may perceive the characters and there is no denying that there are certain social stigmas attached to both genders (on what is acceptable behavior).  In essence, double standards, which may in turn affect our perceptions.  Both health-care and non-health-care professionals significantly rate pain as more acceptable for females than males (Siu Man, L. and Chung, J, 2007).  In fact, higher levels of gender male role stress is positively correlated with anti-feminist attitudes (Holbrook, A. M. and Coll, B. M., 2009).  Emotional expressiveness, subordination to women and situations of intellectual inferiority, on the other hand, correlated with conservative attitudes towards women.  To put it shortly, this signifies:  "taboos against emotional expressiveness, fears around subordination to women, and the need to appear intellectually superior, as these domains [correlate] with attitudes toward women and maladaptive coping."

There are literally thousands of APA journals and articles detailing / researching similar things, but that would be overkill.  In any case, we may not "feel" the impact of societal norms and whatnot, but we cannot deny being tainted by them in some form or another, whether we're aware of it or not (applied to both genders).

In the case of Mass Effect, Meer and Hale's performances are just so vastly different that really it comes down to 1) the performances themselves and 2) our beliefs/opinions being affirmed in some way (due to our socially-influenced perceptions), whatever that perception may be (positive, negative, etc).

Modifié par Blackveldt, 01 avril 2010 - 04:15 .


#14
Urazz

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OniGanon wrote...

I think a good line to show their contrast is outside the Omega slums where they ask, "Do I look like a looter?" Meer makes it sound like he's pointing out the blatantly obvious and basically calling the Turian an idiot. Hale makes her voice all low and whispery and makes it sound like she's threatening to tear the Turian's spine out. Assuming Turians have spines.


And yet, you actually do some looting when you are in there. XD

Anyways, I agree.  Meer makes renegade male Shepard seem like the universe is one big joke and gets amused by it and takes advantage of it.  It occasionally annoys him or pisses him off that he'll end up shooting the person responible.

Hale sounds more ruthless and cold and won't put up with anyone's crap.  She has her sarcastic moments sure but she comes off better as an ice cold ****.

There paragon peformances are also different too.

Meer acts more like a soldier in control of his emotions that is a good guy that does the good thing no matter what.  He's gotten a bit more emotional in his paragon peformance in ME2 but it's still pretty much the same thing.

Hale acts more like a normal human and is more emotional in her paragon dialogue.

Personally, I think Hale's peformance is better for full paragon or full renegade while Meer's peformance makes for better paragade or renegon playthroughs.

#15
Shep309

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Truth be told I'm a paragon at heart, normally all my characters are male and paragon, my first forray into the renegade side of things didn't go so well, I quit shortly after completing horizon. The whole thing just seemed "off" to me. Curiousity got the better of me (I wanted to see what happens in all the renegade cut scenes I never got to do) so I made myself a new renegade femshep and I've given myself over to "the dark side" so to speak.

I have to admit. I'm thouroughly enjoying myself. Normally I don't enjoy being an ass or threatening people (yes I know their fictional characters in a game) but after letting my inner badass out I find the renegade femshep to be the most cold and calculating character I've ever played, due in no small part to the VA of Jennifer Hale. I never appreciated how good she was until one of the earliest scenes she does with that thug just inside the entrance to Afterlife. The whole "someone who's day I'm about to ruin" followed by the "maybe you better run along before I find you some trouble" line (or something like that) totally sold me on this renegade playthrough.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the game, it'll almost be like a completely new experience to me, although after I'm done playing for the day I have a feeling I'll feel a little dirty from the nasty things I did in game. God that's awesome! lol

#16
Nyila

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Urazz wrote...

Personally, I think Hale's peformance is better for full paragon or full renegade while Meer's peformance makes for better paragade or renegon playthroughs.


I kinda agree, but Meer's also pretty damn good for full renegade, and I actually prefer his voice-acting over Hale's for the full renegade Shepy.

#17
Blackveldt

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Shep309 wrote...

Truth be told I'm a paragon at heart, normally all my characters are male and paragon, my first forray into the renegade side of things didn't go so well, I quit shortly after completing horizon. The whole thing just seemed "off" to me. Curiousity got the better of me (I wanted to see what happens in all the renegade cut scenes I never got to do) so I made myself a new renegade femshep and I've given myself over to "the dark side" so to speak.
I have to admit. I'm thouroughly enjoying myself. Normally I don't enjoy being an ass or threatening people (yes I know their fictional characters in a game) but after letting my inner badass out I find the renegade femshep to be the most cold and calculating character I've ever played, due in no small part to the VA of Jennifer Hale. I never appreciated how good she was until one of the earliest scenes she does with that thug just inside the entrance to Afterlife. The whole "someone who's day I'm about to ruin" followed by the "maybe you better run along before I find you some trouble" line (or something like that) totally sold me on this renegade playthrough.
I'm looking forward to the rest of the game, it'll almost be like a completely new experience to me, although after I'm done playing for the day I have a feeling I'll feel a little dirty from the nasty things I did in game. God that's awesome! lol


That is quite hilarious because you sound exactly like me.  I did not want to be a Renegade at all--I was full Paragon in ME1 as well as ME2.  Being an ass to everyone was an unpleasant thought.  It's funny, isn't it?  They are indeed only characters in a game, but it's still difficult, especially with a fully-immersible game like Mass Effect.  I found Renegade FemShep to be highly entertaining and yes--cold and calculating.  It was that unpredictable nature that had me sitting on the edge of my seat, so to speak--what will she do next (in terms of VA presentation)?  I would say that the point at which I was sold on FemShep Renegade was during Garrus' recruitment mission.  She finds the looters and upon choosing a certain dialogue option, the conversation is as follows:

Looter:  ...you going to shoot us?
Shepard:  If I have to...do I have to?

It's not even a question if she '[has] to' or is going to shoot them.  The way she (Hale) says it, you know the looters aren't going to survive the encounter.  That feeling gave me particular chills and really lent itself to who she is as a Renegade.

#18
Crixt

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It's all about the voice acting.

#19
Shep309

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I'm inclined to try a renegade male shep after this one, but I'm afraid it may take a while, I'm having far more fun than I should being renegade femshep at the moment. I do need to learn the dialogue wheel better, I'm trying not to get any paragon points yet it seems without fail I always pick up phantom paragon points somwhere.

I'm fairly certain that anything in the "investigate" sub wheel is "safe" as far as points are concerned when trying to avoid paragon/renegade, but what about those options you get after "investigating" that tend to appear on the top or bottom above/below investigate. Do those award points? The manual says top choices are usually good and bottom bad, so I specifically missed that looter dialogue option you referred to because if I remember right, it appeared on the top left. I feel like I missed out!

#20
EKozski

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I like Meer. I'm playing balanced, My Renegade and Paragon are both half full.
I tried playing a FemShep and I could not get past the Medical Bay when she first wakes up. The voice acting was just, blah. Never did finish or even save.
God Bless her, she did a fantastic job as Hawkgirl on, Justice League. But, something about her voice in game just bugged me.
I have to play a full Renegade just to get that Dominate power. Don't have that one.

Modifié par EKozski, 01 avril 2010 - 08:41 .