153 réponses à ce sujet

[weyrleader]

Just want to put my two cents in and just say that I would really like to see a race or family of elves in the next DA that get the respect they deserve.  I'm kind of tired of seeing them portrayed as vermin, sometimes idiotic do-wishers (ie. Micah in DA:A), and fearful-minded nomadic dwellers.  This just isn't how I've come to see the "elf" in my travels through the fantasy realm, and have always prefered to play an elf character in RPGs.

I recently created a poll (http://social.biowar...683/polls/3954/) to see if players would like to see a "dark elf" character option or npc for future DA games, and I'm showing a close favoring towards their inclusion for future development.  Now, I'm not suggesting that a dark elf be an only option, but I would like to see a race of elves in this game get the respect (either through fear or their constant ability to outmatch human qualities in every aspect) that they deserve.
I DO NOT want to have the respect given simply by being a Grey Warden, and therefore I must be an "OK Knife-ear"! 

[Sarah1281]

The Dalish get respect post-Origins if you sided with them, particularly if Lanaya is the new Keeper and they even get their own homeland but, like with any race not in power, things won't just change overnight. Since no one in Ferelden has heard of a more powerful group than the Dalish and it's hinted that they're treated worse in other places (like Orlais no matter what Leliana may initially think) it would have to be an as-of-yet undiscovered group and newbies never get any respect.

[weyrleader]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The Dalish get respect post-Origins if you sided with them, particularly if Lanaya is the new Keeper and they even get their own homeland but, like with any race not in power, things won't just change overnight. Since no one in Ferelden has heard of a more powerful group than the Dalish and it's hinted that they're treated worse in other places (like Orlais no matter what Leliana may initially think) it would have to be an as-of-yet undiscovered group and newbies never get any respect.

I understand where you are coming from, but here are a few observations to your statements:

1) They don't get.......they are GIVEN.  So the humans throw them a bone...doesn't help with the "respect" point.

2)  From the very beginnings of the Dalish origin, you are given the idea and the lore of an ancient race of elves that basically shape the societal culture, art, language, and very existence of a gracelful and powerful race.  I find it difficult to grasp that a collective body shaped from the very "essence" that is grace would fall so far from it.

[caradoc2000]

I think the DAO portrayal of elves is a refreshing alternative to the usual stereotype.

Modifié par caradoc2000, 30 mars 2010 - 08:18 .

[cynicalsaint1]

weyrleader wrote...

2)  From the very beginnings of the Dalish origin, you are given the idea and the lore of an ancient race of elves that basically shape the societal culture, art, language, and very existence of a gracelful and powerful race.  I find it difficult to grasp that a collective body shaped from the very "essence" that is grace would fall so far from it.

I have a feeling that they're going to expand on the ancient elves in later games, and really its not too hard to imagine - I mean look at what happened to the Native Americans. This sort of thing has happened to cultures many times throughout human history. Maybe not in exactly the same sense (afterall we don't have elves or magic in the real world), but great cultures have been brought tumbling down many times.

I actually kind of like the down-trodden elves of Dragon Age, its a refreshing change of pace from the "Anything you can do, I can do better" elves that you tend to see everywhere else. I also like that the Dalish are all xenophobic and standoffish. It makes it fun to hate them

[Bitterfoam]

Elves are what they are in the Dragon Age setting because of history. They are different. Difference is sometimes a good thing, and this is one of those times. It's refreshing.



They're the lower-class because they lost. They were subjugated. The Dalish can rebel against that all they want, but it doesn't much matter in normal civilization. Dragon Age Elves deserve no respect. That's the entire point of them.



And no, not every rule needs a specific exception. There is nothing noteworthy to having "that group of outcast elves who have learned to live in peace not only with their surroundings but with their neighbors, oh loving day." The only reason something like that should be done is if the narrative calls for it, and I doubt we're going to see that narrative done any time soon. Not to mention, that narrative has no purpose to ever exist.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Elves had their golden years already in Thedas, now thy are in decline. What Dragon Age shows us, is what happens once the Elves (as they always seems to be heading there) reaches the end of their era.

[Stormghost]

I think it's a good story idea to have the elves treated like vermin. I've played both Dalish and City Elves (City being my favourite origin of the game) and I like the set up we have in both.



If you start having dark elves, people will demand iron dwarves, or 10 varieties of Qunari etc.

[BroBear Berbil]

Well, Arl Foreshadow's note seems to suggest there will be more about the elves in the next game. I think the fact that the DA elves are so wildly different from other fantasy worlds' elves is kind of the whole point. That said, I pretty much despise the elves in DA. Past injustices or not I feel no sympathy for them as most of the elves I come across have a chip on their shoulder.

[Addai]

In other words, you'd rather have elven lore from other story than from this one??

I think it is actually great to see elves in a different light than mystical, all-powerful beings. The idea of them being a subjugated people adds a lot of interesting story elements.

I'm just glad the elves in this game don't have donkey ears. Face it, not everything done to elvenkind in fantasy is a good thing.

Modifié par Addai67, 30 mars 2010 - 08:32 .

[Eudaemonium]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

The Elves lost, yes. Their golden age is over.
Should it mean they are killed for simply travelling in the wilds and the elven women raped and killed, no.

Should it happen? No. Does it happen? Yes. Subjugated peoples are abused all the time, in RL, contemporary and historical, as well as in fantasy. That doesn't make it right, but what's right isn't often what happens.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 30 mars 2010 - 08:32 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I like the elves just as they are. The cliche fantasy type of them being beautiful, spechul sparkly beings is pretty old, it's refreshing to see them in a different light.

[errant_knight]

weyrleader wrote...

Just want to put my two cents in and just say that I would really like to see a race or family of elves in the next DA that get the respect they deserve.  I'm kind of tired of seeing them portrayed as vermin, sometimes idiotic do-wishers (ie. Micah in DA:A), and fearful-minded nomadic dwellers.  This just isn't how I've come to see the "elf" in my travels through the fantasy realm, and have always prefered to play an elf character in RPGs.

I recently created a poll (http://social.biowar...683/polls/3954/) to see if players would like to see a "dark elf" character option or npc for future DA games, and I'm showing a close favoring towards their inclusion for future development.  Now, I'm not suggesting that a dark elf be an only option, but I would like to see a race of elves in this game get the respect (either through fear or their constant ability to outmatch human qualities in every aspect) that they deserve.
I DO NOT want to have the respect given simply by being a Grey Warden, and therefore I must be an "OK Knife-ear"! 

So...basically, you want a different world than the one of Dragon Age, with a different history. Something more Tolkien, or D&D.... Personally, I think it's interesting that they decided to go such an entirely different direction.

[Efesell]

Yeah they are, but that's how it goes in this setting.

Deal with it.

[mousestalker]

Most of my characters in any fantasy game are elves. I like the direction DA took with them. Besides the CEF origin is the most kick butt origin there is. Although the DC origin comes close.

[CalJones]

I like that they're fallen in DA:O. I'm sick and tired of Tolkein/D&D elves who are mystical, beautiful, superior and all but immortal - they're basically a race of Mary Sues. DA:O is actually the first game where I've made and played an elf character - they normally have no appeal to me whatsoever.

[weyrleader]

Eli-da-Mage wrote...

Remember though that there are close-minded individuals on both sides. If humans were to apologise and build them a homeland alot of elves would become fearfull and angry. They could be getting a new homeland entitled to them or it could just be a ruse to have all the elves in one place to be captured as slaves or killed. Either way there would be elves who protested against it.

As for your dark elf idea it would be quite interesting. Do you mean the typical purple skinned elfs with full black eyes that live in some poisonous land or did you have something else in mind?

Great question!  I'm not suggesting taking the easy "Drow" way out.  Instead, we must remember that the geographical world of DA is a big place.  It is entirely possible to have a selected region still in power by the elves, yet they choose to seek the safety and fortification that the mountainous and cavernous areas provide from locust-minded human and dwarven opportunists.

This new race, in conjunction possibly with the newly evolved darkspawn, could create a whole new world of danger, as well as excitement for we, the gamers.  ( ie. what if the ruler of the elves sought allegiance with the Architect, whose true motives are yet unknown?) In addition, the possibilities are endless for npcs or even character option (perhaps an outcast seeking to unite ties for his people and the other races, while claiming the glory of the Grey Warden and redeeming familial honor to his or herself ?)

I just want the elves to get the credit where credit is due. As well as see a "refreshing" take on the elves that many of you have stated be more than an object for abuse and servitude.  I think that we can all be a little more creative than that. 

[Realmzmaster]

I like the elves and dwarfs in Dragon Ahe. They are not your typical elves and dwarfs from D & D and other fantasy. Empires decline (Roman). Cultures are lost (Native American, many african kingdoms). Elves are subjugated. Dwarfs engage in a caste system and really cutthroat politics (Have a taste of my family's mace).

The elves are xenophobic (not without reason). The humans distrust and some despised the elves (not without reason).

Maybe it disturbs some people because the story mirrors part off human history and culture. We see ourselves and do not like what we see.

I remember an old quote from a Pogo comic: We have met the enemy and thems is us.

[Bitterfoam]

The closest bet might be seeing elves who live in Qunari lands, but I imagine they would be utterly alien to "regular" elves if they're anything more than slaves.