153 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

It's a hell of a lot more interesting for the elves to be divided between a downtrodden, destitute population resigned to their fate and living in fantasy ghettos, and xenophobic, jingoistic nomads wandering a forest and desperately trying to regain their former glory.



This opposed to a race of Mary Sues that serenely accepts their decline and still manages to outshine everybody else makes for much better story options.

[Sarah1281]

I like the elves where they are now just fine. Plus if they got any queer ideas about their status they'd just get into no end of trouble. I mean they're elves, they'd just be lost without humans in general and the Chantry in particular helping them stay civilized and in the Maker's good graces.

That actually sounds like what your average Ferelden would say if confronted with the idea of elven independence...

Modifié par Sarah1281, 31 mars 2010 - 12:03 .

[Sesshomaru47]

I liked being an elf in DA. You could pretty much go round the whole game being rude to everyone, like that Turian. "you humans are all racist". I was even rude to the king, stupid human lord thinks he knows stuff.....

[Zy-El]

I wish there was a Dalish Elf Mage origin where you didn't have to be part of the Circle. Would you be considered malificar by the Circle? Or would you be overlooked as such being a Grey Warden?



Rather than creating expansions that added new areas, wouldn't it be easier to create new Origins for the existing game?

[keesio74]

I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at how elves and dwarves were treated. Usually, elves are always front and centre (and often this powerful, haughty race) and the dwarves are mostly forgotten. In DA:O, dwarves were front and centre which was cool to see.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The only good elf is a dead elf, and the only thing better than a dead elf, is a dying elf who tells you where to find his mates.

[elearon1]

>>Just like how black people were treated and are still treated today .. Like second class human .<<



Black people are not treated like second class citizens in my state (in general - there will always be some backwater little town somewhere), so I guess it really depends upon your geographic location.



>>AHh i 'm so tired of this crap.All this crap .. We're so stupid.<<



I'm not sure what you're point is here ... you're angry because characters in a computer game show prejudice against a fantasy race? Prejudice and Bigotry are ugly, yes, but they have been part of humanity since the dawn of civilization - not including it in a game striving for dark fantasy and using historic cultural reference wouldn't make much sense either. The inclusion isn't in any way endorsing that kind of thinking any more than the game endorses drinking poison to gain mystical powers and killing people because they ****** you off ... it is a story, if we shy away from controversial or difficult topics in stories we do ourselves a disservice.



And just because one doesn't like some aspect of history, culture, religion, etc. does not mean that refusing to accept the reality of it is a good idea.

[InvaderErl]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

It's a hell of a lot more interesting for the elves to be divided between a downtrodden, destitute population resigned to their fate and living in fantasy ghettos, and xenophobic, jingoistic nomads wandering a forest and desperately trying to regain their former glory.

This opposed to a race of Mary Sues that serenely accepts their decline and still manages to outshine everybody else makes for much better story options.

Utterly this.

No, I do not want Dark Elves nor do I want the stereotypical elf.

[7th_Phoenix]

InvaderErl wrote...

Utterly this.

No, I do not want Dark Elves nor do I want the stereotypical elf.

I'm stuck in between whether a "dark elf" would be a good addition or not, but I definitely do not want a stereotypical one either. I see elves as the underdogs... so I'm content with the race as is, and I like playing as an elf just because of that feeling I get as an underdog.

[Dreadz666]

caradoc2000 wrote...

I think the DAO portrayal of elves is a refreshing alternative to the usual stereotype.

Agreed. DAO is practically unique in portraying elves as something other than perfect and superior to humans in every aspect.

[Venatio]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The only good elf is a dead elf, and the only thing better than a dead elf, is a dying elf who tells you where to find his mates.

Your a copy cat , Orcs from Warhammer say the same things about dwarves.

"The only good stunty is a dead stunty, and the only thing better than a dead stunty is a dyin' stunty who tells yer where to find 'is mates."

+++ Morglum Necksnapper+++ 

Modifié par Venatio, 31 mars 2010 - 01:51 .

[TheMufflon]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

It's a hell of a lot more interesting for the elves to be divided between a downtrodden, destitute population resigned to their fate and living in fantasy ghettos, and xenophobic, jingoistic nomads wandering a forest and desperately trying to regain their former glory.

This opposed to a race of Mary Sues that serenely accepts their decline and still manages to outshine everybody else makes for much better story options.

QFT

Flawed elves are way better than pointlessly idealized elves.

As for wether 'Dark Elves' would be a good addition to DA, that depends entierly on what you mean by Dark Elves.

[thegreateski]

Well if my sex fiend/cruel HMN rogue has his way then yes, a bunch of Elves will be getting the shaft.



. . . . . .



That sentence can be taken two ways cant it?

[mousestalker]

Just FYI: In the Qunari lands the elves are all bakers. It's in the Qun somewhere that that is their role. They also live in trees. The Hahren in Seheran is named 'Ernie'.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Venatio wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The only good elf is a dead elf, and the only thing better than a dead elf, is a dying elf who tells you where to find his mates.

Your a copy cat , Orcs from Warhammer say the same things about dwarves.

"The only good stunty is a dead stunty, and the only thing better than a dead stunty is a dyin' stunty who tells yer where to find 'is mates."

+++ Morglum Necksnapper+++ 

Yay! I'm not the only person remembering the 4th edition of Warhammer!

[MassEffect762]

They can reclaim what they lost. What do you do when you fall down?(that's right, get back up)

[IanPolaris]

I think that DAO has an interesting perspective on Elves and one less different from other RPGs than you might think. In other fantasy worlds/RPGs, you see the elves as an ancient and wise people that are slow to change and on the brink of a precipitous decline.

In DAO you see what happens to the Elves AFTER such a people meet an aggressively expanding amoral human empire.

The bottom line is this: The Dalish represent pretty much the last whimper of what is left of the Elves as an independant people....and even the Dalish seem to be "Deliverance" rejects. The elves in the city wither voluntarily or by force are going to be bred completely out of existance within just a handful of generations. The Dalish will simply die as hunter-gather tribes are prone to do because of lack of resources, inbreeding, and an inability to compete against the larger and better organized human kingdoms.

Within 500 years.....a thousand on the outside, I don't think there will be any meaningful elven populations anywhere in Thedas.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  As a people the elves of DAO are boned.  Simple as that.  Take a long look at the elves you see in DAO and DAA because they are on the verge of becoming extinct/bred-out.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 31 mars 2010 - 04:43 .

[weyrleader]

It appears that you have been busy in my absence, and I truly appreciate all of the perspectives offered. I respect the fact that many of you find the elves' story to be refreshing. I have, however, noticed a few assumptions regarding my preferences that I would like to clear:



1) Never suggested that a dark elf be an "only option" but that a race of elves (regionally located within the world) that has been untouched and yet to be harrassed by the virulent human race.



2) Never suggested that the elves be the "center" of anything. Only that they play a more adequate role in society that reflects their rich history (and I am referring to the history provided by DA:O, since many think that I am referring to other writer's depictions of elves.)



3) My intent on this was not to stir trouble. Not a troll. Hell, didn't even know what that was until just recently. I only wished to express my own perspective, what I would like to see, and why.



Cheers, my friends!

[asaiasai]

I have to agree with the posters who like me preffer the current setting the DAO elves are in. It is quite refreshing to have an elven character in the game that is just as much a scumbag as anyother character. This is why i think Eamon is one of the coolest characters in the game because while everybody else in the realm see your elven character as an elf first Eamon actually sees a Warden who happens to be an elf. I noticed that on my very first playthrough with my FCE warrior, respect is not something that can EVER be given, it must be earned. The city Elves in DAO are broken, they have chosen to endure rather than fight and so until they are ready to free themselves they will always be vermin and in decline. The Dalish prefer to run as well and until they can running they will also be vermin and in decline. I like this twist away from the typical holier that thou elves that are so common place in just about every other game out there. Sorry to be contrary but leave my vermin elves alone please.



Asai

[weyrleader]

asaiasai wrote...

I have to agree with the posters who like me preffer the current setting the DAO elves are in. It is quite refreshing to have an elven character in the game that is just as much a scumbag as anyother character. This is why i think Eamon is one of the coolest characters in the game because while everybody else in the realm see your elven character as an elf first Eamon actually sees a Warden who happens to be an elf. I noticed that on my very first playthrough with my FCE warrior, respect is not something that can EVER be given, it must be earned. The city Elves in DAO are broken, they have chosen to endure rather than fight and so until they are ready to free themselves they will always be vermin and in decline. The Dalish prefer to run as well and until they can running they will also be vermin and in decline. I like this twist away from the typical holier that thou elves that are so common place in just about every other game out there. Sorry to be contrary but leave my vermin elves alone please.

Asai

ROFL!! Excellent points! Guess we little ones will just have to claw our way back! And from this guy's point of view, it's going to be one hell of a climb!

[elearon1]

>>In DAO you see what happens to the Elves AFTER such a people meet an aggressively expanding amoral human empire.<<



I have to disagree with this. The human wasn't and isn't amoral, it simply had a different set of morals from the elven nation ... a moral structure which stated humans were entitled (for whatever reason) to the land and to rule over the "lesser" races.

[TheBlackBaron]

weyrleader wrote...
2) Never suggested that the elves be the "center" of anything. Only that they play a more adequate role in society that reflects their rich history (and I am referring to the history provided by DA:O, since many think that I am referring to other writer's depictions of elves.)

So what if their history holds that they were once immortal, graceful, whathaveyou? That time is gone. Empires fade, governments collapse, societies regress. The old European states and the even older Asian ones can attest to this - hell, even going back to the ancient Middle East empires such as Babylonia, Persia, and especially Egypt.

Like most of us have been saying, it's far more interesting to actually explore the elves as a race that has fallen, and fallen very far, with some accepting it and others clinging to the few scraps they can. I don't see what another sect of elves, that, like it or not, would be very sterotypicaly fantasy would bring to Thedas in terms of enhancing the story and setting other than player wish fufillment.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 31 mars 2010 - 06:41 .

[IanPolaris]

elearon1 wrote...

>>In DAO you see what happens to the Elves AFTER such a people meet an aggressively expanding amoral human empire.

I have to disagree with this. The human wasn't and isn't amoral, it simply had a different set of morals from the elven nation ... a moral structure which stated humans were entitled (for whatever reason) to the land and to rule over the "lesser" races.

Having seen the Tevinter Empire (then and now) described in the game, I think it is very safe to say that they were an expanding amoral (which is not the same as immoral) empire.  Certainly the Magisters who ran the Tevinter Empire were amoral at best.

-Polaris

[weyrleader]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

weyrleader wrote...
2) Never suggested that the elves be the "center" of anything. Only that they play a more adequate role in society that reflects their rich history (and I am referring to the history provided by DA:O, since many think that I am referring to other writer's depictions of elves.)

So what if their history holds that they were once immortal, graceful, whathaveyou? That time is gone. Empires fade, governments collapse, societies regress. The old European states and the even older Asian ones can attest to this - hell, even going back to the ancient Middle East empires such as Babylonia, Persia, and especially Egypt.

Like most of us have been saying, it's far more interesting to actually explore the elves as a race that has fallen, and fallen very far, with some accepting it and others clinging to the few scraps they can. I don't see what another sect of elves, that, like it or not, would be very sterotypicaly fantasy would bring to Thedas in terms of enhancing the story and setting other than player wish fufillment.

Hmm...OK....so just to make sure I am getting this correctly, are you suggesting that what is good for Ferelden is good for the rest of Thedas?  And that the adjoining lands that have yet to be explored by us need mirror the societal happenings in Ferelden and Orlais for the story to continue its richness? Assume that were to be true here, in real life: where we were all just one big collective whole, worldwide,  with a mirrored class structure.  How rich and diversified would our story be? 

To me, new lands mean new possibilities for the story to unfold.  I would just like to see what we have discussed as a possibility.

[weyrleader]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

weyrleader wrote...
2) Never suggested that the elves be the "center" of anything. Only that they play a more adequate role in society that reflects their rich history (and I am referring to the history provided by DA:O, since many think that I am referring to other writer's depictions of elves.)

So what if their history holds that they were once immortal, graceful, whathaveyou? That time is gone. Empires fade, governments collapse, societies regress. The old European states and the even older Asian ones can attest to this - hell, even going back to the ancient Middle East empires such as Babylonia, Persia, and especially Egypt.

Like most of us have been saying, it's far more interesting to actually explore the elves as a race that has fallen, and fallen very far, with some accepting it and others clinging to the few scraps they can. I don't see what another sect of elves, that, like it or not, would be very sterotypicaly fantasy would bring to Thedas in terms of enhancing the story and setting other than player wish fufillment.

Hmm...OK....so just to make sure I am getting this correctly, are you suggesting that what is good for Ferelden is good for the rest of Thedas?  And that the adjoining lands that have yet to be explored by us need mirror the societal happenings in Ferelden and Orlais for the story to continue its richness? Assume that were to be true here, in real life: where we were all just one big collective whole, worldwide,  with a mirrored class structure.  How rich and diversified would our story be? 

To me, new lands mean new possibilities for the story to unfold.  I would just like to see what we have discussed as a possibility.