153 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

weyrleader wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Madhaus wrote...
You want Legolas ? Just play Lord of the Rings ;-)

No see, he wants "Scary Dark Elves"

He wants to be Drizzit.

Oh my GOOOOOOD!!!!   I give up with the thread-scanners.......

God doesn't really sound that great when you draw out the name. It just becomes Good.

[AmstradHero]

I'll confess that when I read the original post, I rolled my eyes.  It sounded like another "I want Drow in DA:O", to which my response is a resounding NO. I like that DA:O moved away from the standard D&D trope. I like that elves aren't high and mighty immortal beings, that dwarves have their strong caste system and anyone who leaves for the surface is outcast, etc, etc.  The new spin on existing ideas is what I loved about Thedas.

Casteless dwarves are shunned in dwarven society, elves are shunned in human society.  Yet dwarves don't disrespect elves in the same way, nor does anyone but dwarves care if a dwarf is casteless.  In Orlais, elves are supposedly treated with slightly more respect than in Ferelden, although they are still second-class citizens. The Dalish don't even have many heroes to revere... except maybe the Grey Warden if they were an elf.

I think the idea of empowered elf or would be an interesting scenario, but I'd still expect them to be subject to some degree of prejudice, simply because it is so strongly ingrained into the culture of Thedas.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 29 mai 2010 - 02:53 .

[mousestalker]

I wish I had mad modding skills because a secret elven society would be wicked cool. The Mafia arose in Sicily in the middle ages to kick the French out. An Orlesian society of elves originally dedicated to reclaiming the Dales would be cool, especially if they've since devolved to banditry, assassination and such.

[tmp7704]

Well, this is bit of a necro but... i can't say i found the OP's logic of "I don't want to have the respect simply given by being a grey warden, i want it to be given simply by being part of elf race that's just because better at everything than humans and they deserve it" very appealing.

DA is pretty unique in that pretty much all its races have some flaws to offset their strong points. And i mean genuine flaws, not pseudo-flaws that only serve to make the race even more "cool" than it already is through the advantages they're given.

Modifié par tmp7704, 29 mai 2010 - 03:20 .

[Suron]

why are they getting the shaft? because they're not the generic, typical, holier-then-thou, do no wrong, mystical race that they are IN ALMOST EVERY OTHER GAME/SETTING OUT THERE?



whatever....personally I love the elves in DA:O...for once in a long time they're actually interesting.



go back to your spotless flawless pretty elves in DnD or any other setting..leave my DA:O elves alone. kthxbye

[mousestalker]

 Elves are better. End of story.

[Ildaron]

They are in higher positions in the Qunari lands than humans too!

[Drasanil]

I have a few gripes with elves in DAO, but these are more specific than just the lost glory and subjugation, I find the new spin interesting but in some cases it seemed like Bioware went a bit too far in its implementation.

--- --- ---

Whole adaptable genes thing is pretty full of suck. Firstly it's counter intuitive, adaptable genes should overwrite or work around other genetic material not simply delete itself upon insertion which is essentially what it does now with the elf+human=human thing. Secondly given that elves+humans=humans the discrimination makes even less sense, you'd think most humans just wouldn't care, they get a hot girl/boyfriend and their children face none of the social stygma that would normally be attached to cross-racial heritage. In fact in some perverse way breeding with elves could be seen as a social responsiblity to fix a "broken" segment of society. 

It would have been way better if elf+human=elf, it would actually give humans a very valid reason to discriminate against elves and a percieved threat to their survival: "We have to keep them elves down, else tha rodents'll taint our children and next thing ya know they'll be so many of the littl' blighters running around that we'll end up on bloody altars and the Chantry will burn!"  

Or they could have have simply taken the Warhammer approach to crossbreeds and say that there is no such thing. Dwarves, elves and humans are seperate races cannot produce children together, which is my favorite approach. Thematicly speaking, I hate half-breeds they take two strong archetypes smoosh them together and leave you with a watered down compromise that fails to accomplish anything.

--- --- ---

The midget thing, uh I hate child sized elves, it's hard to take them even remotely seriously when it looks like you could punt them halfway accross a foot ball field, elves should be lithe/skinny but they shouldn't make your average twelve year old look physically imposing.

--- --- ---

The whole low-population/being outbred by humans thing, even with the "adaptable genes" schtick this doesn't make sense from a sociolagical stand point. On average, the poorer a segment of society is the more children they have, while richer middle income families tend to have fewer children. Given that elves are pretty much the buttom feeders of Thedas and have been so for centuries if not millenia, we should be seeing families of elves with ten to twelve children living in crowded one room apartments and a fairly healthy, all be it subjugated, population.

--- --- ---

Garahel, this one really fries my bacon, one of the most famous heroes in the history of Thedas (and a grandmaster of the Grey Wardens IIRC) was an elf and the only person who even brings it up is Duncan, you'd think an elf slaying the last archdemon in single combat would have earned them some street cred so to speak.

--- --- ---

Loghain. Yes he's the bad guy, but still the whole selling elves thing was pretty low even for him considering that he was one of the few Ferelden commanders who actually used elves in the last war against Orlais and used them to great effect, they were one of his most most effective terror troops against Orlais, for him to just go "oh well they're useless, lets sell some and make extra money" twenty years later seems well odd.

--- --- --- --- ---

I don't want it to be all negative, as I said before I think Bioware did a great job reimagining elves on the whole, I just found some of the implementation a bit over the top, there are somethings they did right.

-The alienage.

-Shianni & Valendrian, they're essentially two sides of the same coin, with Shianni being a little more hot-headed and um lets say accident prone while Valendrian is older and more patient and actually reasonnable.

-Vaughn, he pretty much single handedly makes the CE origin so good, so much so infact that I actually have trouble killing him despite everything he did, he's just that cool. He's also one of the few humans that comes across as racist and actually believes it, as opposed to most NPCs.

-The Dalish, they're xenophobic, bitter and downtrodden, but at the same time if you read between the lines you see that they are beginning to regain something of their former selves. Not including Zathrian who's cheating, there's evidence they are becoming more "elven" Illen's father was around during the times of the Fall of the Dales, Paivel is mentionned as being old even when the Sarel was a child, keepers apperently have even longer lifespans due to their magic. Incidently every time I hear about a dalish fem-warden romacing Alistair (the worst offenders, but Morrigan/Leliana + male dalish is just as bad) I cringe, Bioware did such a good job of portraying the dalish as xenophobic elven tradionnalist that non-Zevran romances shouldn't even have been an in game option.

-Micha in Awakening he's a bit of an uncle tom, but he's also more indicative of the reality elves face as opposed to having random people just go "lol knife ears!" when ever an elf walks by.

-Orzammar/Dwarves and Zevran/Oghren, the whole elf/dwarf thing was refreshing, I loved the random comments dwarves would make when you clicked on them. "An elf I thought you were just a surfacer fairy tale to scare children", "Is it true elves have six toes on each foot?", "I heard elves were all murderers and rapists on the surface." and the dialogue between Zevran and Oghren asking him why elves put up with so much crap from humans when dwarves never would was priceless.

[Sarah1281]

Secondly given that elves+humans=humans the discrimination makes even less sense, you'd think most humans just wouldn't care, they get a hot girl/boyfriend and their children face none of the social stygma that would normally be attached to cross-racial heritage. In fact in some perverse way breeding with elves could be seen as a social responsiblity to fix a "broken" segment of society.

Discrimination doesn't HAVE to make sense and often doesn't. There are cases where one black parent and one white one, for instance, produce a child that appears to be white. They, like the elf-blooded humans, wouldn't face discrimination from random passerbys who don't know their story but if people did, say,see them with their non white/human parent and see the relation then they would face that same discrimination. I don't see that being out of touch with reality.

Loghain. Yes he's the bad guy, but still the whole selling elves thing was pretty low even for him considering that he was one of the few Ferelden commanders who actually used elves in the last war against Orlais and used them to great effect, they were one of his most most effective terror troops against Orlais, for him to just go "oh well they're useless, lets sell some and make extra money" twenty years later seems well odd.

Hee doesn't decide that the elven race as a whole is useless and should be sold for some extra cash. He sees the conditions of the alienage after Vaughn and then Howe were through with it - which are pretty deplorable, you have to admit - and decides that it cannot be saved. There is no hope for the Alienage, the elves will just continue to get sick and die in poverty, and he needs money. Yes, it was a horrid solution to turn to slavery but he didn't write off the entire race, just those at the Alienage. They're not allowed to fight or carry weapons anyway so I doubt they reminded him of his elven soldiers.

-Vaughn, he pretty much single handedly makes the CE origin so good, so much so infact that I actually have trouble killing him despite everything he did, he's just that cool. He's also one of the few humans that comes across as racist and actually believes it, as opposed to most NPCs.

You dont' think the other NPCs are actually racist? Maybe not every single NPC you meet feels the need to comment on your species but that would get a little repetitive and they have enough to make it clear just where you stand. The Ash Warrior leader hates you, the Quartermaster at Ostagar expects you to fetch him his armor, Lloyd and Murdock in Redcliffe both have issues with you being an elf, the guy who the elves are mugging in the Alienage assumes you must be there to mug him too when you try to talk to him, the little orphaned boy in Lothering...it's there. These people really believe it just like they really believe in the Maker though not all of them feel compelled to sing his praises every five seconds. And presumably some of the prejudiced people who might otherwise comment see how heavily armed you are and how they are defenseless and decide it's just not worth it.

-Micha in Awakening he's a bit of an uncle tom, but he's also more indicative of the reality elves face as opposed to having random people just go "lol knife ears!" when ever an elf walks by.

The Dalish and elf mages don't have to deal with that but I think the city elve also get a taste of what it's like but that origin is only, say, half an hour long. After that you're not a helpless dowtrodden second-class citizen anymore. You're a Grey Warden, you can kill anyone who gives you ****, and you're the only hope to save them from the Blight. At that point you really aren't getting the typical elven experience any more than the human or dwarf wardens get a typical experience for their species.

[Drasanil]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Discrimination doesn't HAVE to make sense and often doesn't. There are cases where one black parent and one white one, for instance, produce a child that appears to be white. They, like the elf-blooded humans, wouldn't face discrimination from random passerbys who don't know their story but if people did, say,see them with their non white/human parent and see the relation then they would face that same discrimination. I don't see that being out of touch with reality.

True but in the Black/White scenario producing a white child is extremely rare, most of the time they end up looking black, which actually served to reinforce the the racial segragation. In sense interracial breeding was (and still is for some people) perceived as a very real threat to their community, in a manner that simply doesn't apply to the humans in DAO.

Hee doesn't decide that the elven race as a whole is useless and should be sold for some extra cash. He sees the conditions of the alienage after Vaughn and then Howe were through with it - which are pretty deplorable, you have to admit - and decides that it cannot be saved. There is no hope for the Alienage, the elves will just continue to get sick and die in poverty, and he needs money. Yes, it was a horrid solution to turn to slavery but he didn't write off the entire race, just those at the Alienage. They're not allowed to fight or carry weapons anyway so I doubt they reminded him of his elven soldiers.

No offense but if you actually believe that half-baked excuse Loghain gives in the landsmeet, after all he is in part responsible for those conditions, I have lovely Synagogue with an open bar to sell you in Saudi Arabia.

Further more the alienage is a walled of section of the city with in a walled off city, it easily has to be one of the most easily defensable spots in Denerim. Loghain had more or less an entire year to prepare, that's a lot of time to raise some half-decent militia (elves or not) especially if your troops are running around in the rest of the country press-ganging any one they come across.

You dont' think the other NPCs are actually racist? Maybe not every single NPC you meet feels the need to comment on your species but that would get a little repetitive and they have enough to make it clear just where you stand.

Let me put it this way I didn't really feel the hate. You had Vaughn and Ceorlic in the landsmeet (who uses your heritage against you) but the rest of the time "racism" amounted to a few "lol knife earz" comments.

The Ash Warrior leader hates you,

Not really he just isn't impressed with you, but after the thin-boned comment he is actually fairly "nice" for lack of a better word.

the Quartermaster at Ostagar expects you to fetch him his armor,

 
He back tracks and grovels pretty quickly when you call him out on it, a "proper" racist really wouldn't give a rat's @ss about you being a warden recruit or not.

Lloyd and Murdock in Redcliffe both have issues with you being an elf, the guy who the elves are mugging in the Alienage assumes you must be there to mug him too when you try to talk to him, the little orphaned boy in Lothering...it's there.

IIRC Lloyd asks you if you're a run away from the alienage which given the general circumstances of elves is actually a reasonnable question, and if you point out you're dalish he doesn't even seem to mind, despite the fact dalish are murderous boogey-men bandits as far as humans are concerned.

Forgot about Murdock, he's was pretty good, sexist too so that was refreshing.

The alienage guy's reaction was farily reasonnable. If you were in a bad part of town and assaulted by a group of black people trying to mug you then all of sudden another black person shows up decked out in bling and with enough firepower to take down a police station, wouldn't you panic and GTFO? 

Lothering boy really doesn't count, first off he's not really old enough to understand the concept of discrimination, and secondly if you help him out he points out his father said elves weren't very nice but you get the definite impression he thinks elves are pretty neet afterwords.

The Dalish and elf mages don't have to deal with that

Actually they should have to deal with more of it than normal city elves, since they'd be percieved as actual threat as opposed to city elves who would be seen as rather tame and domesticated.

but I think the city elve also get a taste of what it's like but that origin is only, say, half an hour long. After that you're not a helpless dowtrodden second-class citizen anymore. You're a Grey Warden, you can kill anyone who gives you ****,

No offense but the entire point of the game is that you can't simply run around and kill off any one you want just 'cause you're a Grey Warden, otherwise the Bhelen/Harrowmont situation would have been a lot easier to solve and Loghain wouldn't be in command of the relief forces at Ostagar. If you listen to Duncan being a Grey Warden actually contrains you a good deal, especially since Wardens are not solidly established in Ferelden.

and you're the only hope to save them from the Blight. At that point you really aren't getting the typical elven experience any more than the human or dwarf wardens get a typical experience for their species.

No offense but you only become the "only hope against the blight" after you manage to build an army on your own and put Loghain in his place during the landsmeet. Otherwise you're a criminal with a rather large bounty on your head or Loghain's scapegoat of choice depending on who you're taking too not exactly a position of power or respect.

Modifié par Drasanil, 29 mai 2010 - 08:28 .

[Sarah1281]

No offense but if you actually believe that half-baked excuse Loghain gives in the landsmeet, after all he is in part responsible for those conditions, I have lovely Synagogue with an open bar to sell you in Saudi Arabia.

I don't think I'm being naive about that. Loghain needed money and so he justified it to himself that there was no hope anyway. Real slaveholders have justified it to themselves that it was in the Bible so it was perfectly moral. That doesn't mean that him writing off one group of elves means he feels all of them are worthless and I don't think he was really reminded of his own troops when he saw the cowed city elves.

He back tracks and grovels pretty quickly when you call him out on it, a "proper" racist really wouldn't give a rat's @ss about you being a warden recruit or not.

I don't think he backtracks because he feels you should be respected but because he knows that being a Warden recruit means you are a skilled fighter and unless he's too racist to live he's not going to provoke the heavily armed and presumably skilled elf in front of him.

Actually they should have to deal with more of it than normal city elves, since they'd be percieved as actual threat as opposed to city elves who would be seen as rather tame and domesticated.

I was talking about the goups in general. The mages rarely leave their tower and there doesn't seem to be much racism within the tower as they're all in the same boat and when they do actualy leave they're scary mages first and foremost. The Dalish rarely have contact with the outside world and everyone either doesn't believe they exist or are terrified of them anyway. Take the three hunters in the DE origin. Are they racist against elves? Probably. Do they call you knife-ears while Tamlen is considering killing them? No. That would just be stupid. And in the mage and Daish origins you don't get the racism the CE do because of islolation from society. Once you, one mage or DE, go out into the world then yes, you do encounter more explicit ef prejudice.

The alienage guy's reaction was farily reasonnable. If you were in a bad part of town and assaulted by a group of black people trying to mug you then all of sudden another black person shows up decked out in bling and with enough firepower to take down a police station, wouldn't you panic and GTFO?

If that black person ran off the people mugging me and I was afraid for my life would I start insulting them because they were black? No, I think that would be a bad idea. Keep in mind the dwarves and humans are equally armed and he's thankful to you and makes a racist remark about 'knife-ears.'

No offense but the entire point of the game is that you can't simply run around and kill off any one you want just 'cause you're a Grey Warden, otherwise the Bhelen/Harrowmont would have been a lot easier to solve and Loghain wouldn't be in command of the relief forces at Ostagar. If you listen to Duncan being a Grey Warden actually contrains you a good deal, especially since Wardens are not solidly established in Ferelden.

No, you can't in-game and you certainly can't kill anyone important but if random famer Joe decides to start insulting you because you're an elf and tries to treat you like he treats other elves could you kill him? Why not? You can kill people for less. There's the hungry prisoner in Ostagar, the wounded soldier in the Korcari Wilds, Brother Genitivi at Lothering...there are lots of people you can kill just for the hell of it or because you don't like humans. Maybe going around killing all the people who make racist remarks to you would be a bad idea in terms of the GW image but that won't necessarily stop you and all the racist people you meet will know that even if you do face repercussions that won't save them so the smart ones will keep their mouths shut.

No offense but you only become the "only hope against the blight" after you manage to build an army on your own and put Loghain in his place during the landsmeet. Otherwise you're a criminal with a rather large bounty on your head or Loghain's scapegoat of choice depending on who you're taking too not exactly a position of power or respect.

And who actually believes that? Loghain or Howe's men and the only people who actually try to collect on that bounty are desperate refugees or, again, Loghain/Howe's men. Most people you talk to refuse to believe the official story about you. They think 'GW save us from the Blight, it is a Blight, you are a GW, you're our only hope.'

Edit: Oh, and if you feel the need to say 'no offense but...' theree times in one post then maybe you should try phrasing it in a less insulting manner? 

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 mai 2010 - 08:41 .

[Drasanil]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't think I'm being naive about that. Loghain needed money and so he justified it to himself that there was no hope anyway. Real slaveholders have justified it to themselves that it was in the Bible so it was perfectly moral. That doesn't mean that him writing off one group of elves means he feels all of them are worthless and I don't think he was really reminded of his own troops when he saw the cowed city elves.

The difference here is that Loghain knows better and did so any ways, the slave holders didn't actually write the bible and for the most part didn't actually know any better.

I don't think he backtracks because he feels you should be respected but because he knows that being a Warden recruit means you are a skilled fighter and unless he's too racist to live he's not going to provoke the heavily armed and presumably skilled elf in front of him.

He's also a quartermaster in the king's camp, whether you're warden or not he's actually in a fairly secure position and could easily get away with treating you the same way a korean shop keeper treats a group of punks who walk into his convenience store at night...

If that black person ran off the people mugging me and I was afraid for my life would I start insulting them because they were black? No, I think that would be a bad idea. Keep in mind the dwarves and humans are equally armed and he's thankful to you and makes a racist remark about 'knife-ears.'

You don't actually run off those elves, they just scatter on their own when they see you coming because they percieve you as a threat even if you're CE from the alienage, the human just sees a bigger meaner elf and decides to run while the running is good.

No, you can't in-game and you certainly can't kill anyone important but if random famer Joe decides to start insulting you because you're an elf and tries to treat you like he treats other elves could you kill him? Why not? You can kill people for less. There's the hungry prisoner in Ostagar, the wounded soldier in the Korcari Wilds, Brother Genitivi at Lothering...there are lots of people you can kill just for the hell of it or because you don't like humans. Maybe going around killing all the people who make racist remarks to you would be a bad idea in terms of the GW image but that won't necessarily stop you and all the racist people you meet will know that even if you do face repercussions that won't save them so the smart ones will keep their mouths shut.

 
Yet in all those circumstances it's because those people are in positions where any one could normally get away with killing them warden or not, similarily you should be able to gut Morrigan when ever you feel like it but she has a plot flag, the game is arbitrary like that. How ever the main point is that Grey Wardens do what ever is necessary to stop a blight, how ever in other capacities they're fairly constrained, further more it wouldn't stop people from treating you like crap before they found out you're a warden.

And who actually believes that? Loghain or Howe's men and the only people who actually try to collect on that bounty are desperate refugees or, again, Loghain/Howe's men. Most people you talk to refuse to believe the official story about you. They think 'GW save us from the Blight, it is a Blight, you are a GW, you're our only hope.'[/i]

If you listen to the gossips and the rumours you hear from Bohdan and and the tavern keeps a good deal of people actually believe it including Bohdan himself until you start taking care of business in a serious manner. Most of the others that don't blieve the lies are people you've helped out in some way, finally up until the point Loghain is knocked off, most of the "Grey Warden save us" has more to do with local issues than anything blight related it could have easily as been "please heavily armed adventurer save us."

Edit: Oh, and if you feel the need to say 'no offense but...' theree times in one post then maybe you should try phrasing it in a less insulting manner? 

Meh, I do it as a precaution since some people on the internet can be rather easily offended regardless of how you phrase something.

[Befit]

Personaly I absolutely love my MCE (though i do wish i can make him a bit more taller, it's awkward when u're LI is taller than u lol). It gives him reason to be bitter towards the world and humanity. I just wish there was combat dialog that has u're character say "Always remember u were defeated by an elf."

[thegreateski]

But the Knife-ears ARE getting the respect they deserve.







None.

[mousestalker]

I give trolls the same amount of respect. It's funny how there are no trolls in the game, but there are certainly some in the forums.

[leeboi2]

The elves don't get respect because they bow down to the humans...Thus the humans are obviously better, and therefore should not need to respect the elves.

[BigBad]

I talk a lot of crap about the elves, but truth to tell, I like DA:O elves (except the Dalish). Elves as an oppressed minority is a pretty cool concept. Not totally original, but definitely a swerve from the typical high fantasy portrayal of an entire race of pseudo-Mary Sues who are beautiful, immortal, powerful, and always right (what the Dalish aspire to).



My current City Elf character is shaping up to be one of my favorites, against my initial expectations (unlike my abandoned Dalish character). Life in the Alienage is pretty interesting to see and experience firsthand (unlike the Dalish camp), and I can't wait until I get back and see the reactions from my origin NPCs (like you can't do with the Dalish).



All in all, I gotta say that while I like bashing elves (especially the Dalish), my city elf PC is shaping up to be just as fun as my dwarf or human characters, so I have to entirely disagree with the OP and agree with most everyone else: elves aren't getting short-changed and don't actually suck.



Except the Dalish.

[Nuclear]

leeboi2 wrote...

The elves don't get respect because they bow down to the humans...Thus the humans are obviously better, and therefore should not need to respect the elves.

Not all elves 'bow down' to humans or have you forgotten that? Elves deserve respect for even coping with all of the racism they get. Elves don't deserve any racism anyway, what exactly did the elves do to provoke it all? Rejecting the Chantry because they already had their own religious beliefs to follow. How does that even give enough reason for all the hostility and lack of respect towards elves?

[Xandurpein]

No one deserves racism of course. But there are countless examples of cultures being conquered, marginalized and treated like second class citizens by the victors. Native american indians just happen to be one of the better known. I think that the treatment of the elves in DAO is refreshing because it's beliveable. It is a lot more belivable than the generic D&D stories.



Don't equate believable with fair or right though. Sadly injustice and xenophobia makes for very believable subjects in a medieval fantasy setting.

[Sarah1281]

-ßeta- wrote...

leeboi2 wrote...

The elves don't get respect because they bow down to the humans...Thus the humans are obviously better, and therefore should not need to respect the elves.

Not all elves 'bow down' to humans or have you forgotten that? Elves deserve respect for even coping with all of the racism they get. Elves don't deserve any racism anyway, what exactly did the elves do to provoke it all? Rejecting the Chantry because they already had their own religious beliefs to follow. How does that even give enough reason for all the hostility and lack of respect towards elves?

It might be Chantry propoganda that the Dales had their army stand by watching but a lot of people are still annoyed that when the second Blight came the Dalish refused to aid the human nations and so when the humans finally did beat back the Blight they sacked the Dales for being such major ****s in their time of need. The story might be more complicated but that is what history says happened. That lead to the enslavement of the elves and over time people just see the oppressed, formerly enslaved elves as second-class citizens. I see a lot of parallels with what happened in America shortly after slaves were freed.

[Befit]

I think that the chantry didn't want a soveriegn nation that didn't bow to chantry will. Worried that this could cause other nations to see they didn't need the chantry to run effeciently, and opted to remove the problem.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, I think the Chantry definitely took advantage of anti-elven sentiment ater they stayed neutral during the Blight to bring down the only nation to reject the Chantry in Thedas.

[thegreateski]

Stupid Chantry.

[Befit]

I just can't wait 'till they call an Exalted March on the Dwarves and then all the races will be worshipping the paragons. (That's the only love u're gonna get from me u tunnel dwellers jk)

[Chuvvy]

caradoc2000 wrote...

I think the DAO portrayal of elves is a refreshing alternative to the usual stereotype.

Second.