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[implodinggoat]

Nightwriter wrote...

sammcl wrote...

I've had to be careful on new games not to fall into the trap of making my decision based on knowing the outcome, even knowing that the merc in Thane's recruitment mission was the Volus' killer I let her go with my paragon, because i think he'd want to believe her story and let her go. My renegade just killed her, rationalising that "every Eclipse sister commits a murder to earn her uniform", better safe than sorry.

I think this is a trap all of us fall into at one point or another. And I thought it was Samara's recruitment mission?

Anyway, I thought this was a unique time when being paragon actually proved to turn out badly, something that doesn't happen very often. I honestly let her go - the second time.

The first time, my paragon saw her go for her gun and I shot her out of pure instinct, before even hearing her story.

I suppose this might be one way to justify this particular renegade interrupt, then, because she was drawing on you. If you apply your reasoning above, and try to play like you don't know the outcome, this might be a justification. But second time, I heard her story and let her go. I paid for this later.

You paid for it later?

Funny, I don't remember her showing up again.  Did I miss something?  The time I let her go, was my first playthrough and I was only playing on Veteran.  Does she show up again if you let her go on higher difficulties?

[Nightwriter]

sammcl wrote...

Ah right Samara, I always end up doing Thane, Samara and Miranda missions together, all 3 involve eclipse so i mix them up. It was a nice surprise that the paragon choice had a bad outcome, we might see more of that in ME3 with the rewriting of the heretics. If i had to guess I'd say the Geth end up helping you fight the reapers but they are machines, maybe the reapers will give them a virus and use them against us. Destruction of the collector base is another contender for a bad outcome, I wouldn't trust the Illusive Man to use it, but his logic of using the reapers' own tech against them or at least studying it to find weaknesses is sound.

It was a nice surprise, weird as it is to say (not like I'm happy I let a murderer go or anything). But they mixed it up a little bit and we like it when they keep us guessing.

However, I hope this doesn't hold true for the geth virus or the Collector base. ME2 sort of taught me the quarians and the geth really just need to make up and fight some Reapers, already. Neither of them are bad guys, really. I rewrote the geth and cautioned the quarians toward peace.

And yes, TIM's logic was sound, so very, very sound - which was why I never forgave him for being such an untrustworthy bastard and making me have to destroy the base.

[Tlazolteotl]

Nightwriter wrote...

sammcl wrote...

I've had to be careful on new games not to fall into the trap of making my decision based on knowing the outcome, even knowing that the merc in Thane's recruitment mission was the Volus' killer I let her go with my paragon, because i think he'd want to believe her story and let her go. My renegade just killed her, rationalising that "every Eclipse sister commits a murder to earn her uniform", better safe than sorry.

I think this is a trap all of us fall into at one point or another. And I thought it was Samara's recruitment mission?

Anyway, I thought this was a unique time when being paragon actually proved to turn out badly, something that doesn't happen very often. I honestly let her go - the second time.

The first time, my paragon saw her go for her gun and I shot her out of pure instinct, before even hearing her story.

I suppose this might be one way to justify this particular renegade interrupt, then, because she was drawing on you. If you apply your reasoning above, and try to play like you don't know the outcome, this might be a justification. But second time, I heard her story and let her go. I paid for this later.

Well, one problem with the scripted scenes in ME2, and that one in particular, is that you can't shoot 'em in non-lethal locations.
Fair enough to go for the kill when you're up against a dozen guys, but one inexperienced eclipse that's alone?

[Vaenier]

Paragon = Lawful Stupid.

[Nightwriter]

implodinggoat wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

sammcl wrote...

I've had to be careful on new games not to fall into the trap of making my decision based on knowing the outcome, even knowing that the merc in Thane's recruitment mission was the Volus' killer I let her go with my paragon, because i think he'd want to believe her story and let her go. My renegade just killed her, rationalising that "every Eclipse sister commits a murder to earn her uniform", better safe than sorry.

I think this is a trap all of us fall into at one point or another. And I thought it was Samara's recruitment mission?

Anyway, I thought this was a unique time when being paragon actually proved to turn out badly, something that doesn't happen very often. I honestly let her go - the second time.

The first time, my paragon saw her go for her gun and I shot her out of pure instinct, before even hearing her story.

I suppose this might be one way to justify this particular renegade interrupt, then, because she was drawing on you. If you apply your reasoning above, and try to play like you don't know the outcome, this might be a justification. But second time, I heard her story and let her go. I paid for this later.

You paid for it later?

Funny, I don't remember her showing up again.  Did I miss something?  The time I let her go, was my first playthrough and I was only playing on Veteran.  Does she show up again if you let her go on higher difficulties?

No, no - I meant I paid for my mercy by finding out later that I had just let a murderer go free.

I am sure she will probably show up in ME3, though.

I hope that Pergatory prison escapee who sent you that creepy e-mail shows up too, actually. Creepy, creepy e-mail.

[Vaenier]

Nightwriter wrote...

No, no - I meant I paid for my mercy by finding out later that I had just let a murderer go free.

I am sure she will probably show up in ME3, though.

I hope that Pergatory prison escapee who sent you that creepy e-mail shows up too, actually. Creepy, creepy e-mail.

She was arrested and charged with murder based on the audio diary confession you find later in that mission. you wont be seeing her again.

Purgatory guy gets out either way, right? Not exactly sure

[Nightwriter]

Vaenier wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

No, no - I meant I paid for my mercy by finding out later that I had just let a murderer go free.

I am sure she will probably show up in ME3, though.

I hope that Pergatory prison escapee who sent you that creepy e-mail shows up too, actually. Creepy, creepy e-mail.

She was arrested and charged with murder based on the audio diary confession you find later in that mission. you wont be seeing her again.

Purgatory guy gets out either way, right? Not exactly sure

Really? I don't remember that at all. I thought I remembered the asari officer just saying well, it's unfortunate she got away, we'll try and find her or something...

Purgatory guy bothered me because I couldn't do anything about it. Lol. He was about to murder an unsuspecting family as he was typing the message to you. Somewhere a police officer is going to find a family of corpses with SHEPARD carved into their torsos. Not good.

[MadCat221]

Vaenier wrote...

Paragon = Lawful Stupid.

Renegade = Chaotic Stupid

[Nightwriter]

Vaenier wrote...

Paragon = Lawful Stupid.

I disagree.

My paragon Shepard stole an Alliance warship from Citadel Station against orders to save the galaxy from a threat no one else would respond to.

This was both unlawful and quite smart.

[sammcl]

I don't think she really did anything important enough to be seen again, there's loads of killers in the galaxy, just because we let one go doesn't mean there will be some catastrophic consequence. I don't think she's actually arrested though, we inform the detective but she's on the run. We might see Balak again, although he was in DLC so i dunno. The mission with the 2 missiles targeting a human city and military base seems like something Balak would do, not to mention all the batarians there. I wonder if that mission exists if you killed Balak in ME1.

[MadCat221]

Nightwriter wrote...

sammcl wrote...

Ah right Samara, I always end up doing Thane, Samara and Miranda missions together, all 3 involve eclipse so i mix them up. It was a nice surprise that the paragon choice had a bad outcome, we might see more of that in ME3 with the rewriting of the heretics. If i had to guess I'd say the Geth end up helping you fight the reapers but they are machines, maybe the reapers will give them a virus and use them against us. Destruction of the collector base is another contender for a bad outcome, I wouldn't trust the Illusive Man to use it, but his logic of using the reapers' own tech against them or at least studying it to find weaknesses is sound.

It was a nice surprise, weird as it is to say (not like I'm happy I let a murderer go or anything). But they mixed it up a little bit and we like it when they keep us guessing.

However, I hope this doesn't hold true for the geth virus or the Collector base. ME2 sort of taught me the quarians and the geth really just need to make up and fight some Reapers, already. Neither of them are bad guys, really. I rewrote the geth and cautioned the quarians toward peace.

And yes, TIM's logic was sound, so very, very sound - which was why I never forgave him for being such an untrustworthy bastard and making me have to destroy the base.

Samara's reasoning is pretty spot-on concerning Timmay's conniption fit concerning blowing up the Collector base if you talk to her post-victory.  Just look at what happened with the Reaper IFF.  Even if we aren't meant by the Reapers to have that stuff, it's still Reaper tech, something the Reapers have aeons more experience in using than some hubris-filled chain-smoking alcoholic.

Similarly, consider the Geth philosophy on technological self-determination.

TIM's logic on salvaging the collector base is only sound to the blind.

Modifié par MadCat221, 31 mars 2010 - 03:29 .

[Xaijin]

with Husk eyes.

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, TIM is a tool.

I'd have ditched him first chance I got, if everyone else in the galaxy weren't even dumber.

As it was, my renegade blew up the base. 'cos that's some bad ****.

[Rive Caedo]

Purgatory guy bothered me because I couldn't do anything about it. Lol. He was about to murder an unsuspecting family as he was typing the message to you. Somewhere a police officer is going to find a family of corpses with SHEPARD carved into their torsos. Not good.

This is similar to the situation you can end up with Toombs. Even if Toombs has more specific and fair targets :happy:

[Tlazolteotl]

But at least you can shoot toombs.

[Nightwriter]

MadCat221 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

And yes, TIM's logic was sound, so very, very sound - which was why I never forgave him for being such an untrustworthy bastard and making me have to destroy the base.

Samara's reasoning is pretty spot-on concerning Timmay's conniption fit concerning blowing up the Collector base if you talk to her post-victory.  Just look at what happened with the Reaper IFF.  Even if we aren't meant by the Reapers to have that stuff, it's still Reaper tech, something the Reapers have aeons more experience in using than some hubris-filled chain-smoking alcoholic.

Similarly, consider the Geth philosophy on technological self-determination.

TIM's logic on salvaging the collector base is only sound to the blind.

Here is what I meant: we know, even after two games, next to nothing about the Reapers on a technological level. They're coming, and we still don't really know anything.

That base was chalk full of information and things we could learn.

As a practical, pragmatic person, TIM's suggestion that we use that base and the knowledge therein against the Reapers seemed overwhelmingly alluring.

But I could not, in good conscience, give him the base, as I do not trust or approve of the man to whom the suggestion belongs.

[GodWood]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Killing a whole sentient race is not logical

Have fun trying to make friends with the Reapers.

[CmdrFenix83]

Xaijin wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

It's all a silly Rules of Engagement type issue. Example: Garrus' recruitment mission. Renegade interrupt to shoot a mech in the head that's on its' way to attack you. You would think any kind of Shepard would have taken the shot. Apparently it's a Renegade move to eliminate an enemy before it has actually begun shooting at you. Self-defense is the only justification, I guess...

It's a renegade option becuase he's unarmed and his back is turned, and he doesn't actually fight.

If it had been someone I didn't know, I might have thought objectively about it, after "damn turian sniper" came up, he done got hisself stabbed.

All very relative.

You completely ignored what I wrote.  I said the Renegade interrupt to shoot the mech.  No backstabbing.  Shooting the armed robot that's on its' way to fight you in two seconds anyway.

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, you could just assume every shepard takes the shot.

'cos bioware can't just hand you free renegade points for doing nothing, hence it's an interrupt.

"Check this. I got 5 renegade points just for being next to Garrus."

[CmdrFenix83]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Well, you could just assume every shepard takes the shot.
'cos bioware can't just hand you free renegade points for doing nothing, hence it's an interrupt.
"Check this. I got 5 renegade points just for being next to Garrus."

No real reason for points at all here.  Just have Shep shoot the Mech and progress the scene.  Why even leave that as an option?  Nothing changes if you don't do it, you just don't get Renegade points and have to kill 1 more mech downstairs.

[Tlazolteotl]

Because apparently conversation-based QTEs are all the rage nowadays.

[wraith1113]

Tlazolteotl wrote...
"Check this. I got 5 renegade points just for being next to Garrus."

That's because garrus is EXTREME!!!

[Xaijin]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

It's all a silly Rules of Engagement type issue. Example: Garrus' recruitment mission. Renegade interrupt to shoot a mech in the head that's on its' way to attack you. You would think any kind of Shepard would have taken the shot. Apparently it's a Renegade move to eliminate an enemy before it has actually begun shooting at you. Self-defense is the only justification, I guess...

It's a renegade option becuase he's unarmed and his back is turned, and he doesn't actually fight.

If it had been someone I didn't know, I might have thought objectively about it, after "damn turian sniper" came up, he done got hisself stabbed.

All very relative.

You completely ignored what I wrote.  I said the Renegade interrupt to shoot the mech.  No backstabbing.  Shooting the armed robot that's on its' way to fight you in two seconds anyway.

Hardly, there wasn't an object lesson to be had. Both options that help Garrus are renegade options, not excepting he still ends up chewed up, and he still has the need to bust caps in fools. The metagaming occuring there is courtesy of BW, not the player, same for Liara.

[Renessa]

I don't know, I think some of the Renegade options are actually quite neutral (i. e. shooting the mech, which is on its way to attack you, even killing the Batarian, who is working on that gun ship. I mean, who would be so stupid as not to stop him?) Bioware just did not know how to incorporate "neutral" interrupts...



Anyway, my Paragon Shep used those without any qualms and she still was full "blue" in the end...