204 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

Eh, I think the whole EDI thing is just about giving it a chance.



TIM spent billions of credits rebuilding you and the Normandy. I doubt he would program a AI that would intentionally space you or fly you into a sun. It would be counterproductive to the mission, I would imagine. And, you're already being spied on. I doubt anything EDI would have to report to TIM would be any different than what he gets from Miranda, or the spy cameras.

[Tlazolteotl]

Yes, but you can punch Miranda in the mouth if she gets out of line.

EDI, not so much.

[shengar]

Paragon is more long term decision than Renegade. Preserve the Collector Base sounded logical, but after the Reapers threat are gone, what will the Illusive Man do with those techs? While Renegade Choice is more short term effect and effectiveness for that moment only.

[Mnemnosyne]

For the most part, renegade does equal logical decisions, simply put. There are the occasional 'kick the dog' renegade options where you're mean just to be mean, and there are occasional logical paragon actions, but by and large, renegade does mean following the logical path.

[danielassault]

Being Paragon, just as being Renegade, both have their extremes. Extremes never seem logical if you aren't an extreme person.



Also, try considering the neutral options or the Good/Bad options, they often give the more unexpected results.

[Vaenier]

MadCat221 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Paragon = Lawful Stupid.

Renegade = Chaotic Stupid

Thus the only smart way to play is Paragade

[CmdrFenix83]

Xaijin wrote...

Hardly, there wasn't an object lesson to be had. Both options that help Garrus are renegade options, not excepting he still ends up chewed up, and he still has the need to bust caps in fools. The metagaming occuring there is courtesy of BW, not the player, same for Liara.

You're still ignoring the point.  I can understand that killing a mechanic(ie: not a soldier) giving Renegade points.  Shooting a robot that's on its' way to attack you in two seconds anyway has zero connection to a Renegade action.  It's a stupid Rules of Engagement issue which is beyond dumb, seeing as it is 1) not alive, 2) armed, and 3) on it's way to kill you anyway.  Shooting it shouldn't have even been an interrupt, it should have just been what Shepard did in general, no Rene points.

You also don't get Rene points for reprogramming that YMIR mech, and that is by far the most helpful action(and most devastating to the mercs) you can do on the whole mission.

[Blackbaron15]

Good guys generaly dont shoot first.

[GuardianAngel470]

Renegade was Pragmatic with a bit of ass thrown in in ME1, now it is Ass with a little pragmatic thrown in. Conversely, Paragon was Naive with a little intelligent thrown in in ME1 and now it is Intelligent with a little naive thrown in.

[GuardianAngel470]

Blackbaron15 wrote...

Good guys generaly dont shoot first.

Yes, but intelligent people sometimes do.  If you know that you are going to kill someone anyways, why not do it quickly before the other person has a chance to react?

[Xaijin]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Hardly, there wasn't an object lesson to be had. Both options that help Garrus are renegade options, not excepting he still ends up chewed up, and he still has the need to bust caps in fools. The metagaming occuring there is courtesy of BW, not the player, same for Liara.

You're still ignoring the point.  I can understand that killing a mechanic(ie: not a soldier) giving Renegade points.  Shooting a robot that's on its' way to attack you in two seconds anyway has zero connection to a Renegade action.  It's a stupid Rules of Engagement issue which is beyond dumb, seeing as it is 1) not alive, 2) armed, and 3) on it's way to kill you anyway.  Shooting it shouldn't have even been an interrupt, it should have just been what Shepard did in general, no Rene points.

You also don't get Rene points for reprogramming that YMIR mech, and that is by far the most helpful action(and most devastating to the mercs) you can do on the whole mission.

who's ingoring what?

The metagaming occuring there is courtesy of BW, not the player

[inversevideo]

I think you just need to play the situation.



I truly believe that with ME2 Bioware tweaked things so that if you 'knee jerk' play Paragon, or Renegade, you could make the wrong choice.



This seems to occur most often on Illium.

Not sure if the writers were making a point, or if that is just the way it turned out.



1) Helping Liara, by doing some hacking, can get you some Renegade points. Yet why would you not help out Liara? I guess an argument could be made for not helping her, but she is my LI and squadmate, and needs my help.

2) Helping the indentured servant to get a contract with SI is considered 'Renegade'. However, convincing SI to free her, then garnish back her wages, is Paragon. You need to think about that one, because if you knee jerk make the Paragon choice, you are screwing that Quarian. Indentured servants are protected, on Illium by binding contract law. If you have SI free her, then garnish her wages, she is in effect still an indentured servant (in the true definition of the term), but now she has been stripped of any legal protections, she once had.

3) You can choose to tell Conrad Verner the truth, and or send him away, and crush his feelings. But you will be a Paragon. Or you can have the asari merchant/'undercover cop' lie to him, then lie to him yourself, telling him how dangerous the mission was and how worried you were for his safety (rather than tell him the truth that he was used like a cheap tool) and he comes to the conclusion to go home, and does so with his pride intact, and feeling sufficiently good that he starts 'Shepard's (he might do this either way, to be honest not sure, but by taking the Renegade path, you leave him with his pride intact). As someone already pointed out, you could let the Eclispse sister slide. I did not think twice, once she reached for her gun though. There was no reason for me to not believe that each Eclipse sister had to earn her uniform by killing someone. These are the Terminus systems. I don't buy that she thought she was hanging out to have fun.

Killing Cathka to stop him from fixing the gunship, hmmm.. I guess I could use harsh language, and ask him to stop. Some Renegade actions just make sense. Others, like sending the drug addled Volus to his death, were spiteful, and not needed. Renegade does not equal evil, nor does Paragon = good. Can't be a pushover, but I don't think it is necessary to be a total S.O.B.

Paragade or Renegon feels more natural, to me.

[MadCat221]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Renegade was Pragmatic with a bit of ass thrown in in ME1, now it is Ass with a little pragmatic thrown in. Conversely, Paragon was Naive with a little intelligent thrown in in ME1 and now it is Intelligent with a little naive thrown in.

So play Paragade, where you're Intelligent with a bit of Pragmatic thrown in.

The little bit of Renegade you get if you play predominantly Paragon is usually from the "Pragmatic" renegade bits anyway, like agreeing with Solus on the genophage's necessity.

Modifié par MadCat221, 01 avril 2010 - 04:37 .

[Nibroc17]

Light side, dark side... its all perspective.

[xVillyMaNillyx]

i bought the mass effect 3 on ps3 and ive played it many times...but today i have full renegade and i couldnt pick the bold dialogs at the end of the game. (example: when legion's mission is done tali goes and has a "chat" with legion. i have full renegade but i couldnt pick the neither the bad nor good...i want to know why?)

[tjzsf]

sammcl wrote...
But there are loads of civilians you'll chat with where the renegade option just feels so unreasonable, the major one i can think of is telling Harrot to shut down Kenn's Salvage, why do that? you don't want to help Kenn out, fine but don't go out of your way to make his life worse than it already is. I've never selected that option so maybe it turns out it's some reverse psychology that ends up helping Kenn, but there's no way you're gonna know that until you select it. There's also accusing the synthetic insights rep of racism for not buying a slave, or accusing the citadel souvernirs merchant of discrimination against the poor.
/

WRT Harrot - Kenn's problem is that he needs money to buiy a ticket off Omega, but Harrot's forcing him to sell at uncompetitive prices, which renders him unable to raise the funds. You can threaten to break Harrot's legs if he doesn't stop, or you can convince Harrot to buy Kenn out (presumably giving him enough cash to buy a ticket offworld). Either way though, disliked how the new system forced my Shep to choose the one based on their alignment to maintain charm/intimidate score (quarians are the woobie race for both my paragon and renegade sheps).

I can get behind the "racism for not buying a slave" thing, mainly because it's *not* a slave they're buying (slaves don't usually get stringent contracts stipulating what can and can't be done to them), and if your aim was to get them to take the contract, accusation of racism b/c the indentured servant in question is a quarian is a rational thing to do. Discrimination against the poor is more...eh, would have preferred something like the intimidate options for the other stores.

[tjzsf]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
You're still ignoring the point.  I can understand that killing a mechanic(ie: not a soldier) giving Renegade points.  Shooting a robot that's on its' way to attack you in two seconds anyway has zero connection to a Renegade action.  It's a stupid Rules of Engagement issue which is beyond dumb, seeing as it is 1) not alive, 2) armed, and 3) on it's way to kill you anyway.  Shooting it shouldn't have even been an interrupt, it should have just been what Shepard did in general, no Rene points.

You also don't get Rene points for reprogramming that YMIR mech, and that is by far the most helpful action(and most devastating to the mercs) you can do on the whole mission.

I used to think "wtf" at the assignment of renegade points to those actions, but now I don't really have much of a problem with it, as all of those are interrupts - taking them do not hurt your paragon meter or affect your charm abilities in any way, so interrupts are basically just free morality points. That actually fits more in line with renegade being practical instead of evil...and it does allow you to bring a bit of hard edge to your paragon (just like paragon interrupts like the Tali hug and the tell-off-racist-CSec-and-volus-on-Citadel give you a softer side to your renegade).

That said, from a rules of war standpoint I really don't think tazing/killing (not really made clear which; the tool and the one-liner indicates taze but the smoke from the eyes indicates death?) should count as anything too bad; the guy was a clearly uniformed enemy who was performing repairs on a piece of military equipment that was clearly going to be used against you. He is also a uniformed officer, indicating that he does have a frontline combat role, just that he also has a maintenance job on top of that. All of which make him a legitimate target. AFAIK you are allowed to sneak into the hostile enemy base and kill random soldiers.

Modifié par tjzsf, 14 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[78stonewobble]

I still think the weirdest one is that headbutting a krogan is renegade. *sigh* thats kinda how they communicate.

[Moiaussi]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Killing a whole sentient race is not logical

Sure it is. It just depends on your starting premises. People confuse logic with correct results all the time. If you start with faulty premises, logic will result in a faulty answer.

In many of these cases, including the Rachni decision, it is a matter of judgement calls. Do you trust the Queen or do you consider the risk the Rachni present great enough to warrant summary execution?

That leads to weighing the evidence as to the risks and honesty (or lack thereof) of the Queen, value judgements regarding the value of life for its own sake, value judgements as to the possible benefits of the Rachni as a current or future ally, risk of their implied susceptability to indoctrination, etc etc etc.

If you think it is an easy decision either way you are likely underthinking it (which is fair enough this being just a game and all).

[Moiaussi]

78stonewobble wrote...

I still think the weirdest one is that headbutting a krogan is renegade. *sigh* thats kinda how they communicate.

I'd guess the theory is that paragons want to teach them a 'kinder gentler' communications method, like crocheting messages in doilies or something

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Definition of Renegade: "An individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior."

[Moiaussi]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Definition of Renegade: "An individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior."

That is a definition. Another is 'A deserter from a faith, cause, or allegiance to another.' Another is 'having rejected tradition' Another is 'an outlaw, a rebel.'

The question is, what does it mean within the context of ME and should all definitions or any given defintion be treated as gospel?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Proof is in the pudding.  The definition in my post seems like the most emcompassing definition for all of a Renegade's actions in the ME series.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 14 juin 2011 - 07:58 .

[Moiaussi]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Proof is in the pudding.  The definition in my post seems like the most emcompassing definition for all of a Renegade's actions in the ME series.

So then renegades should always let Balak go, since arresting Balak would be lawful. Negotiating with terrorists could even be 'unconventional.'