57 réponses à ce sujet

[Wickedjelly]

WillyPete2171 wrote...

I understand your point of view, but I feel you are a little misguided.  Maybe this isnt the game you thought it was supposed to be.  Im sure youve heard this before - the game has its roots in the Baldurs Gate series.  For the Baldurs Gate fans and fans of Dragon Age itslef who have been following its development over the years, the spacebar gameplay is what the game is all about.  The game was built around spacebar gameplay.  It never was meant to be an action game or a real-time RPG.  Its a tactical combat RGP.  Its like playing chess - stop the game, take in the big picture and plan out your moves, then start the action again, ect.  The very premise of the game is its ability to stop the action and micro manage your troops to victory.  It was never meant to be about "run and gun" action.  Again, this is what Baldurs Gate was all about, and is also what made it stand out and become successful. 

Bioware has obvioulsy tried to streamline differect aspects to allow for more fluid gameplay and to reach out to a wider audience.   Its possible to play in real time to a certain extent.  Group sharing of items is another streamline feature they built into the game.  I used to soend hours in Baldurs Gate trying to arrange my items in my backpack...  Allowing for a targeting feature in my opinion would take away even more from the Baldurs Gate "feel." 

I think that many too many gamers that bought the game got too caught up in just watching the gameplay vids thinking it looked really cool, but not really reading up what what the game was about.  When Bioware said its a "spiritual successor" to Baldurs Gate, that should have sent off alarms to people.  First question would have been, "what kind of game was Baldurs Gate?"  The Baldurs Gate series was a legendary, and easliy are my favorite games.  Althought its not "perfect", and no game is, Dragon Age matches up pefectly to what I was expecting.

O_o

I'm not dissappointed with this game by any means. I just don't see the harm in having a feature for those that would prefer not to use the spacebar for pausing unless they feel they absolutely have to.  Everyone has different play styles and and speeds they're able to work around controlling different people or having people do certain things.  All I'm saying is I would prefer the game have both options available for players.  Whether you would choose to simply rely on one or the other or mix it up like I tend to do is completely up to the player. 

I don't see how having a targeting feature would take away from the BG feel of the game.  It's not like having that addition means you have to use it.

[Blessed Silence]

I don't think there is anything wrong with pausing at all.



It is a strategy/RPG from what I could tell when it came out.



But yes, pausing allows to set up those nasty spell combos and killing peoples!

[kromm71]

Take heart, OP that the average age of a (pc) gamer is 35. I'm 38. I've never been a real fan of real time games, even back in my 20s. BG, IWD, PST were always more my speed than doom, hexen, quake. FPS have their place, but since consolation and porting to pc, these games have "lost the feeling", not to mention quick save convenience. At any rate, I can't play a twitch shooter more than a couple hours, but a good crpg...

[Nolee]

I love the space bar pause. I get rather jumpy and it lets me calm down for a second before figuring out how to proceed in a manner that makes sense. It's also been a life saver when things have started to go downhill as well.

[muniekk85]

miltos33 wrote...

I totally agree with your post. I just wish it was possible to queue orders so you don't have to pause all that much.

ow thats sweet idea. If there would be possibility to queue at least 2-3 moves it would be awesome

[FalloutBoy]

Gacatar wrote...

Azrailx wrote...

i love twitch shooters and i love space bar games

peeps need to realize all games dont need to be the same...

I'm afraid the developers need to realize this first, considering that most RPGs released in the last 5 years were Diablo clone action hack and slash games.
I suppose people have problems getting used to pausing in a game, when the last tactical party-based RPG released for the pc was 10 years ago.

NWN 2 was only about 3 years ago.

[Seifz]

FalloutBoy wrote...

Gacatar wrote...

Azrailx wrote...

i love twitch shooters and i love space bar games

peeps need to realize all games dont need to be the same...

I'm afraid the developers need to realize this first, considering that most RPGs released in the last 5 years were Diablo clone action hack and slash games.
I suppose people have problems getting used to pausing in a game, when the last tactical party-based RPG released for the pc was 10 years ago.

NWN 2 was only about 3 years ago.

NWN2 was kind of... easy.  I had to play on the hardest difficulty setting before tactical pauses became a necessary thing, outside of maybe 2-3 encounters that were challenging on Hardcore.  I still loved the game, though.  

Mask of the Betrayer required a lot of tactical pausing for me since I played as a Wizard...  Hrm.

[kromm71]

WillyPete2171 wrote...




I understand your point of view, but I feel you are a little misguided.  Maybe this isnt the game you thought it was supposed to be.  Im sure youve heard this before - the game has its roots in the Baldurs Gate series.  For the Baldurs Gate fans and fans of Dragon Age itslef who have been following its development over the years, the spacebar gameplay is what the game is all about.  The game was built around spacebar gameplay.  It never was meant to be an action game or a real-time RPG.  Its a tactical combat RGP.  Its like playing chess - stop the game, take in the big picture and plan out your moves, then start the action again, ect.  The very premise of the game is its ability to stop the action and micro manage your troops to victory.  It was never meant to be about "run and gun" action.  Again, this is what Baldurs Gate was all about, and is also what made it stand out and become successful. 

Bioware has obvioulsy tried to streamline differect aspects to allow for more fluid gameplay and to reach out to a wider audience.   Its possible to play in real time to a certain extent.  Group sharing of items is another streamline feature they built into the game.  I used to soend hours in Baldurs Gate trying to arrange my items in my backpack...  Allowing for a targeting feature in my opinion would take away even more from the Baldurs Gate "feel." 

I think that many too many gamers that bought the game got too caught up in just watching the gameplay vids thinking it looked really cool, but not really reading up what what the game was about.  When Bioware said its a "spiritual successor" to Baldurs Gate, that should have sent off alarms to people.  First question would have been, "what kind of game was Baldurs Gate?"  The Baldurs Gate series was a legendary, and easliy are my favorite games.  Althought its not "perfect", and no game is, Dragon Age matches up pefectly to what I was expecting.

Excellent post.  The nail has been hit on the head with a natural 20!  I cannot really add to this post without repeating what was already said, except to say that it has struck a chord with me.  Sometimes a comment is posted that you almost wish you composed yourself.  However, I already know my own thoughts and it is with pleasure I read that others think as me.  You are preaching to the choir, friend.  Unfortunately, the congregation is not the size it once was.

The not-so-subtle sarcasm of the last paragraph is noted and enjoyed.

Bioware has taken the question of morality in the promised direction.  The Korgan/Kaigan comic relief duo was amusing for a while but came up short.  As for Minsc, I should have left him in the Chateau Irenicus.

The BG series is by far my favorite as well, but Morrowind is deserving of mention--not for its broken combat and magic system, but for its ambitious, immersive, sand-box approach.

I was introduced to BG in the late 90s at a doom/heretic lan party.  During a break in the gaming, (our sessions would go for 14 hours or so) I was demonstrating Diablo, trying to stir interest in the game.  As a result, I was shown BG.  Later, after I bought the game, the love affair soon began:  my lvl 1/2 party, poorly equipped with Nashkel iron and suffering incompetent leadership, was promptly dispatched by vampirc wolves east of the Berogost Temple.

[slyfox8860]

I just completed my first playthrough without stoping much, but i did seem to have a super powerfull combo of me, tank , Wynne as healer, Sheal as meele fighter, and liliana as ranged dps, i was able to crush most enemys without much thought on normal dificulty

[Wickedjelly]

kromm71 wrote...
Excellent post.  The nail has been hit on the head with a natural 20!  I cannot really add to this post without repeating what was already said...

I'm still trying to understand how thinking having the ability for a player to go either route if they so choose makes me misguided.  I could see feeling that way about my post if I mocked the current concept used in this game or bashed the devs for taking that approach but seeing how I simply said I would prefer both options being available...

I don't get it.  Meh, suppose it doesn't really matter anyways.

[Randir Nuithannen]

I think pause is great.



If people feel like it shouldn't be there -- well no one is forcing there thumbs to hit the spacebar now is there?



Course I could be mistaken and you are stuck in a Saw-esque environment where if you don't tap the spacebar your pointer finger gets forcibly removed by a robot.



But I doubt it. I really really do.

[Wickedjelly]

Randir Nuithannen wrote...

If people feel like it shouldn't be there -- well no one is forcing there thumbs to hit the spacebar now is there?

Course I could be mistaken and you are stuck in a Saw-esque environment where if you don't tap the spacebar your pointer finger gets forcibly removed by a robot.

You kind of have to at points when playing the ranged members whether you want to or not because trying to click on the mobs ends up selecting another party member at times  That's why some would like a targeting feature implemeneted or the ability to disbale left click character select under options.

As to those complaining it shouldn't be available at all?  Yeah, don't really get that point of view because I'm with you.  If you don't like the option then don't use it.

[Fire Lime]

WillyPete2171 wrote...
I understand your point of view, but I feel you are a little misguided.  Maybe this isnt the game you thought it was supposed to be.  Im sure youve heard this before - the game has its roots in the Baldurs Gate series.  For the Baldurs Gate fans and fans of Dragon Age itslef who have been following its development over the years, the spacebar gameplay is what the game is all about.  The game was built around spacebar gameplay.  It never was meant to be an action game or a real-time RPG.  Its a tactical combat RGP.  Its like playing chess - stop the game, take in the big picture and plan out your moves, then start the action again, ect.  The very premise of the game is its ability to stop the action and micro manage your troops to victory.  It was never meant to be about "run and gun" action.  Again, this is what Baldurs Gate was all about, and is also what made it stand out and become successful. 

Bioware has obvioulsy tried to streamline differect aspects to allow for more fluid gameplay and to reach out to a wider audience.   Its possible to play in real time to a certain extent.  Group sharing of items is another streamline feature they built into the game.  I used to soend hours in Baldurs Gate trying to arrange my items in my backpack...  Allowing for a targeting feature in my opinion would take away even more from the Baldurs Gate "feel." 

I think that many too many gamers that bought the game got too caught up in just watching the gameplay vids thinking it looked really cool, but not really reading up what what the game was about.  When Bioware said its a "spiritual successor" to Baldurs Gate, that should have sent off alarms to people.  First question would have been, "what kind of game was Baldurs Gate?"  The Baldurs Gate series was a legendary, and easliy are my favorite games.  Althought its not "perfect", and no game is, Dragon Age matches up pefectly to what I was expecting.

Personally I did buy the DA:O based on gameplay videos and very little of reading reviews.  Normally I play twitch FPS, and action RPGs.  I've never been too good at tactic RPGs and have never played Baulder's Gate.  So when I found out about the space pause, I was very surprised but in a good way.  I feel it really does help out in pitched battles when you are unsure of what to do, rather than having to make a 'on the fly' decision and hope for the best.

[Randir Nuithannen]

Wickedjelly wrote...

Randir Nuithannen wrote...

If people feel like it shouldn't be there -- well no one is forcing there thumbs to hit the spacebar now is there?

Course I could be mistaken and you are stuck in a Saw-esque environment where if you don't tap the spacebar your pointer finger gets forcibly removed by a robot.

You kind of have to at points when playing the ranged members whether you want to or not because trying to click on the mobs ends up selecting another party member at times  That's why some would like a targeting feature implemeneted or the ability to disbale left click character select under options.

As to those complaining it shouldn't be available at all?  Yeah, don't really get that point of view because I'm with you.  If you don't like the option then don't use it.

Hmm I can see your point there.

But I would point out to those players that if they scroll the zoom all the way out it becomes a tactical top down view where I would imagine it's fairly simple to click on any npc you want.

[Shannara13]

The first thing I do when ever I get a new character is disable tactics. I really prefer micromanaging.

[Wickedjelly]

Randir Nuithannen wrote...

Hmm I can see your point there.

But I would point out to those players that if they scroll the zoom all the way out it becomes a tactical top down view where I would imagine it's fairly simple to click on any npc you want.

Very true, it's what I do at times.  It just takes away the feel a bit of being in the mix of the battle when you zoom out to that overview.  I like having the third person view because it gives me the feeling of being in the mix of it all but there are times I pan out simply because it makes targeting easier.

Don't get me wrong, if they were to keep the game as is I would still be content.  I just think allowing those that would prefer to be able to cycle through their targets or at least have an option to disable left click character select doesn't take away anything from the game for those that would use the feature.

[Begarian]

I'm completely fine with pause-tactics gameplay. It's the way I went through the entire Baldur's Gate series, so it feels natural and right. I play from mostly a top down perspective (like the good ol' days), and really only play in third person when I'm exploring an area when there's no battling.

[Mogster42]

[quote]Seifz wrote...

[quote]Gacatar wrote...
e the other keys are all just like WoW (1-0 hotbar, F1-F4 party selection, P/C/I/J, etc.) my thumb just always wants to jump. 

[/quote]

The keys are just like NWN, which was around well before WoW...

[Mogster42]

[quote]Seifz wrote...

[quote]Gacatar wrote...
e the other keys are all just like WoW (1-0 hotbar, F1-F4 party selection, P/C/I/J, etc.) my thumb just always wants to jump. 

[/quote]

The keys are just like NWN, which was around well before WoW...

[LSDS]

Wickedjelly wrote...

I don't mind the spacebar option at all but it would have been nice if there was some type of targeting feature available for those that would prefer not to use the spacebar feature if they can help it. I would rather enjoy the battle in real time than have to constantly pause but that's just me.

I'm surprised there's no targeting feature in the PC version.  On the PS3 we can use the d-pad to target and L3 to lock on.

[LadyRae9]

I like the space bar part - or at least being able to pause - I'm not a speed strategist so I need the time to think.



The part I don't like - and maybe I've just missed something (and would appreciate being told so if that is the case) - is that you have to go into inventory to manually switch weapons. I'd like to see a button I can push, even if it means giving up a space on the activity bar

[Wickedjelly]

LSDS wrote...

Wickedjelly wrote...

I don't mind the spacebar option at all but it would have been nice if there was some type of targeting feature available for those that would prefer not to use the spacebar feature if they can help it. I would rather enjoy the battle in real time than have to constantly pause but that's just me.

I'm surprised there's no targeting feature in the PC version.  On the PS3 we can use the d-pad to target and L3 to lock on.

Nope, least not that I'm aware of anyways.  For the mobs, you have to click on whichever mob(s) you want to attack for single target abilities.  They set up hotkeys for character selection which is nice but nothing for mob targeting that I have found.

[Wickedjelly]

LadyRae9 wrote...

I like the space bar part - or at least being able to pause - I'm not a speed strategist so I need the time to think.

The part I don't like - and maybe I've just missed something (and would appreciate being told so if that is the case) - is that you have to go into inventory to manually switch weapons. I'd like to see a button I can push, even if it means giving up a space on the activity bar

I could be mistaken but I thought there was a hotkey for this? The - sign maybe?  If you scroll over where the little weapon icon is down by your character's hp/mana bar I think it tells you a hotkey you can use to switch out your weapons.

I play a mage as my main though and for my other characters I pretty much have them either use ranged or melee only though so I could be wrong since I haven't paid much attention to it.

[Randir Nuithannen]

Wickedjelly wrote...

Randir Nuithannen wrote...

Hmm I can see your point there.

But I would point out to those players that if they scroll the zoom all the way out it becomes a tactical top down view where I would imagine it's fairly simple to click on any npc you want.

Very true, it's what I do at times.  It just takes away the feel a bit of being in the mix of the battle when you zoom out to that overview.  I like having the third person view because it gives me the feeling of being in the mix of it all but there are times I pan out simply because it makes targeting easier.

Don't get me wrong, if they were to keep the game as is I would still be content.  I just think allowing those that would prefer to be able to cycle through their targets or at least have an option to disable left click character select doesn't take away anything from the game for those that would use the feature.

I would enjoy a tab target cycling function or something along those lines as well actually.

[Valethar]

Seifz wrote...

The biggest problem with the space bar is that I always want to hit it to make my character jump when I'm walking around. I blame WoW and the fact that the default DA:O controls are almost identical to WoW controls.

As if World of Weirdcraft were the ONLY game (let alone the first) to have used that system.....