81 réponses à ce sujet

[Valsung]

jon0945 wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

It does not matter where you're from. By accepting the EULA, something you have to do install the software, you agree to the terms provided (You are in fact digitally 'signing the contract' to use your own words). In said contract it says that they can deny/revoke your access to their service if they deem you to be in breech of the rules they have specificed..

And I was not interpreting 'improper use', I was merely suggesting that the term can be applied to a very wide area of behavior. You are correct in that it's something that should be decidede by judges should you wish to fight their decision in court.

It's just me, but I think a legal document designed to protect them in the lawsuit happy culture of America should stand up in any courtroom. Business law tend to be pretty uniform in the western world.

I agree on most of your former points at some level, it's just so vile that the EULA is an escape everything clause since the court fees alone are enough to keep any average consumer from retaliating. Just reprehensible that that's the state of the world.

However I think EULA's are certainly not just to protect the gigantic conglomerate companies with exorbitant amounts of tender from them crazy 'murkans. I imagine they were first devised in some lavish boardroom as a "hey, how can we do whatever the hell we want so we can continue to make copious amounts of cheddah in a pseudo-legal way so we can avoid being liable in any manner even when common decency and sense tells us otherwise?"  

Modifié par Valsung, 01 avril 2010 - 11:51 .

[jon0945]

Valsung wrote...

I agree on most of your former points at some level, it's just so vile that the EULA is an escape everything clause since the court fees alone are enough to keep any average consumer from retaliating. Just reprehensible that that's the state of the world.

However I think EULA's are certainly not just to protect the gigantic conglomerate companies with exorbitant amounts of tender from them crazy 'murkans. I imagine they were first devised in some lavish boardroom as a "hey, how can we do whatever the hell we want so we can continue to make copious amounts of cheddah in a pseudo-legal way so we can avoid being liable in any manner even when common decency and sense tells us otherwise?"  

Indeed, I was never discussing the inherent morality of the EULA. Just trying to inform people who might have skipped reading it (a.ka 99% of the customers) that they are infact signing away alot of otherwise legal consumer rights simply by clicking that accept button and installing the game.

As for the people affected I imagine some admin took offence to their behavior and will possibly be able to claim it as "improper use" in a court should the matter go there. It's for lawyers and judges to decide.

Modifié par jon0945, 01 avril 2010 - 12:24 .

[Urik187]

hmmm can you smell that???

smells like a troll...



you REALLY think BIOWARE would bann your account over your protest of the BAZAAR and a forum ban?



In case you didnt notice you people werent the only ones protesting the BAZAAR, oh and not to mention that we, the community, had our protest answered by the big guys.



please



also as per your sigs (BIOWARE 1995-2007 Rest in Peace) if you hate BIOWARE so much now why keep buiying their games and registering on their community site?



If you really are banned I'd love to see a screenshot of that

[Varenus Luckmann]

jon0945 wrote...
It does not matter where you're from. By accepting the EULA, something you have to do install the software, you agree to the terms provided (You are in fact digitally 'signing the contract' to use your own words). In said contract it says that they can deny/revoke your access to their service if they deem you to be in breech of the rules they have specificed..

And I was not interpreting 'improper use', I was merely suggesting that the term can be applied to a very wide area of behavior. You are correct in that it's something that should be decided by judges should you wish to fight their decision in court.

It's just me, but I think a legal document designed to protect them in the lawsuit happy culture of America should stand up in any courtroom. Business law tend to be pretty uniform in the western world.

But that's where you're wrong. What passes as acceptable in an american courtroom (just about anything) may very well fall flat or be considered completely ridiculous in a european courtroom.

You can't write anything in a contract (or in this case, EULA). I am sure that in an American courtroom, it's entirely feasible to get something underhanded as "By accepting this, you are handing over all your property to Electronic Arts" passed, while you'd get laughed out of court in most, if not all, European countries.

The legal systems and especially the culture of legality (for lack of a better word) are incredibly different. It's an extremely american weltanschauung to think that laws are american, especially in the approach to law itself, across the globe, or even America contra Europe.

[Varenus Luckmann]

jon0945 wrote...
Indeed, I was never discussing the inherent morality of the EULA. Just trying to inform people who might have skipped reading it (a.ka 99% of the customers) that they are infact signing away alot of otherwise legal consumer rights simply by clicking that accept button and installing the game.

As for the people affected I imagine some admin took offence to their behavior and will possibly be able to claim it as "improper use" in a court should the matter go there. It's for lawyers and judges to decide.

In Sweden, consumer rights supercedes the EULA. Just so you know.

The only question is wheter or not the consumer rights can actually protect against this behaviour. Which is entirely possible. In essence, you cannot sign away your rights, since they are your by law given rights.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 01 avril 2010 - 12:27 .

[jon0945]

In Varenus case it might be less about protesting the bazaar and more about his choice of image and banner symbols that ticked someone of.

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

In Sweden, consumer rights supercedes the EULA. Just so you know.

The
only question is wheter or not the consumer rights can actually protect
against this behaviour. Which is entirely possible. In essence, you cannot
sign away your rights, since they are your by law given rights.

Well, then. Better start writing on the report to have the case tested in a Swedish court then.

I also find it funny that you automatically assume I'm an American...

Modifié par jon0945, 01 avril 2010 - 12:38 .

[Valsung]

Urik187 wrote...

hmmm can you smell that???
smells like a troll...

you REALLY think BIOWARE would bann your account over your protest of the BAZAAR and a forum ban?

In case you didnt notice you people werent the only ones protesting the BAZAAR, oh and not to mention that we, the community, had our protest answered by the big guys.

please

also as per your sigs (BIOWARE 1995-2007 Rest in Peace) if you hate BIOWARE so much now why keep buiying their games and registering on their community site?

If you really are banned I'd love to see a screenshot of that

I'll bite the troll trolling the "troll" even though I probably shouldn't.

I'm not banned and never said I was, I simply sympathized with the OP. I also never posted in the Bazaar threads simply because I knew it would just be a massive trollfest. The most amazing thing about public forums is that people have different opinions and can dissent! Ingenious! I'm also allowed to have a social account and voice my opinions simply because I want to and I own their games! Imagine that!

I initially bought Dragon Age because it was being developed when Bioware was not mergered with EA. I bought Awakenings since it was a continuation of Origins which I felt was quite solid in the end. Mass Effect 2 was a different story, I really enjoyed ME 1 and had heard good things about it from friends so I bought it.

In the end, I don't hate Bioware, I just mourn what it's become and what it could have been. Bioware as you and I know it is dead. It's EAware now and they're letting us know it.

Modifié par Valsung, 01 avril 2010 - 03:04 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

Urik187 wrote...
hmmm can you smell that???
smells like a troll...

you REALLY think BIOWARE would bann your account over your protest of the BAZAAR and a forum ban?

In case you didnt notice you people werent the only ones protesting the BAZAAR, oh and not to mention that we, the community, had our protest answered by the big guys.

please

also as per your sigs (BIOWARE 1995-2007 Rest in Peace) if you hate BIOWARE so much now why keep buiying their games and registering on their community site?

If you really are banned I'd love to see a screenshot of that

Enjoy.

And I'm not buying Bioware products. But I have. This isn't about getting my new stuff. This is about getting my old stuff. Not because I need them, but because I bought them.

[Varenus Luckmann]

jon0945 wrote...
In Varenus case it might be less about protesting the bazaar and more about his choice of image and banner symbols that ticked someone of.

Actually, they haven't complained about either of them (yet). And again, I'm not banned here. I was, for a completely different reason. I want my stuff because I'm entitled to them. Not because I want to be their buddy-buddy. They have shown time and again that they have no desire to be my friend and I can only reciprocate that animosity by a variety of middle fingers available to me.

Regardless of view, like or dislikes, shouldn't everyone be worried when things you have bought can be taken away from you, based on your political views, opinions or rejection of conformity (regardless of what that conformity may or may not be), seemingly by whim?

[jon0945]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Regardless of view, like or dislikes, shouldn't everyone be worried when things you have bought can be taken away from you, based on your political views, opinions or rejection of conformity (regardless of what that conformity may or may not be), seemingly by whim?

I really don't want turn this into a political discussion, but isn't that the very basis of the system of goverment you're advocating?

Facism = It might seem like a stellar idea until it's your head the shiny boot is kicking

[Varenus Luckmann]

Valsung wrote...
[...]

In the end, I don't hate Bioware, I just mourn what it's become and what it could have been. Bioware as you and I know it is dead. It's EAware now and they're letting us know it.

This. Whilst decidingly off-topic, I want to stress that I in the end don't really hate Bioware. Hate would take so much time and so much effort, so much stress. I simply loathe to see what they have become. My personal 'hate' is more than anything directed at the behaviour of many of the people on this board that are involved with Bioware or EA, with censoring (through deletion, no less, to prevent review of circumstance by the fellow forumites), lies, and generally bad behaviour from anyone in a position of power.

The fact that my account has been mysteriously banned, if anything, that they act like children in the playground. No responsability, no risk. Why punish him overtly, when we can steal his toys when he isn't looking?

[Varenus Luckmann]

jon0945 wrote...
I really don't want turn this into a political discussion, but isn't that the very basis of the system of goverment you're advocating?

Without turning this into a political discussion; No.

[jon0945]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
Without turning this into a political discussion; No.

Very well, let's leave it at that then.

Modifié par jon0945, 01 avril 2010 - 12:51 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

jon0945 wrote...
Well, then. Better start writing on the report to have the case tested in a Swedish court then.

I also find it funny that you automatically assume I'm an American..

You sounded like one and you didn't list your nationality in your profile, so I just assumed.

Yes, assumptions are dangerous, but if it quacks, etc.

[Fraga500]

April 1st joke? anti-fascism? who knows...

[Sasquatch86]

Luckmann here. I just want to say that now I'm suddenly banned on the forum, without warning. Since my 24 ban (which I accepted), I haven't heard anything from the devs or the mods, and now I'm suddenly banned, without explanation or warning.

So yeah, now it's not like I even have a choice wheter or not Bioware is redeemable. I spent hundreds of $$$ on games and DLC, just to be thrown aside because I'm not comfortable on an open forum. Cheerio, people.

[Valsung]

If this is true I am beyond disappointed. 

EAware, I'm through with your products. There is needs to be acknowledgement of this gross abuse of power and it is should be immediately rescinded. This is not an MMO, this is a SINGLE PLAYER, MOSTLY OFFLINE GAME. You can expect no revenue of any game published by EA as a whole if you find the action of locking people out of their own PURCHASED products for simple dissent on a PUBLIC FORUM acceptable. Shame on you, regardless of whatever rights you fancy yourself entitled to by a choke-holding EULA. This is reprehensible and I demand an official statement.

Modifié par Valsung, 01 avril 2010 - 02:49 .

[Urik187]

@ Valsung : my apologies i didnt mean to come across as someone who does not like a decent argument. saying that i hold no grudge against BIOWARE for joining EA. i dont know the full story BUT i am guessing that aligning yourself with a marketing/publishing powerhouse has a lot of benefits (besides monetary) they are probably able to get a hold of a lot more resources to make a better game and FYI, while the beginning of DA was done prior the EA merger it was still launched under the EA banner. I do think/hope that they still have the freedom of doing games the way they want while under EA. obviously there will/might be things EA might want done but I am quite confident that they do have this freedom. I have not as of yet played ME2 but will be soon enough. so will let you know if it was better or worse (for me anyway everyone is entitled to their opinion)



as for you Varenus Luckmann, next time you try taking a screenshot try minimising the Photoshop window you have in the background, also once you zoom in you can clearly see that the text "unable to login, this account has been banned" was pasted there. (you can see in the border colour). Now I aint no PS expert but this image definately looks FAKE.



anyone else want to comment?

[Urik187]

BTW: would you really be putting this up on the forum if it was legit?

Personally I would be phoning Customer Support.



TROLL / April Fools

[Urik187]

Valsung wrote...

If this is true I am beyond disappointed. 

EAware, I'm through with your products. There is needs to be acknowledgement of this gross abuse of power and it is should be immediately rescinded. This is not an MMO, this is a SINGLE PLAYER, MOSTLY OFFLINE GAME. You can expect no revenue of any game published by EA as a whole if you find the action of locking people out of their own PURCHASED products for simple dissent on a PUBLIC FORUM acceptable. Shame on you, regardless of whatever rights you fancy yourself entitled to by a choke-holding EULA. This is reprehensible and I demand an official statement.

FYI, he posted on another forum at the exact same time.
also if his account was banned you would not be able to access it.
and thirdly a moderator would have said something.

why would he be banned???

just saying Valsung dont believe everything you see...

[Valsung]

Urik187 wrote...

Valsung wrote...

If this is true I am beyond disappointed. 

EAware, I'm through with your products. There is needs to be acknowledgement of this gross abuse of power and it is should be immediately rescinded. This is not an MMO, this is a SINGLE PLAYER, MOSTLY OFFLINE GAME. You can expect no revenue of any game published by EA as a whole if you find the action of locking people out of their own PURCHASED products for simple dissent on a PUBLIC FORUM acceptable. Shame on you, regardless of whatever rights you fancy yourself entitled to by a choke-holding EULA. This is reprehensible and I demand an official statement.

FYI, he posted on another forum at the exact same time.
also if his account was banned you would not be able to access it.
and thirdly a moderator would have said something.

why would he be banned???

just saying Valsung dont believe everything you see...

Hence the "If this is true" clause   

[ClayJF]

April Fools!

[Urik187]

lol true true...



dont mean to beat down on you man. just saddens me that you could be so disappointed in BIOWARE...

[Levi28001]

Even though I 'm sure this is either a joke or an error.



Would be funny if they did try to ban everyone in those I hate the bazzar...



Wonder if id get one because I posted one of Ray (the ea guy that posted the apology) taking a dump on the community in the first 100 pages lol

[Sasquatch86]

Urik187 wrote...
[...]

as for you Varenus Luckmann, next time you try taking a screenshot try minimising the Photoshop window you have in the background, also once you zoom in you can clearly see that the text "unable to login, this account has been banned" was pasted there. (you can see in the border colour). Now I aint no PS expert but this image definately looks FAKE.

anyone else want to comment?

...you do know of the number of userbars I've done for the community, right? Or the number of images I work with.. right? I work with photoshop every single day, and I needed photoshop to actually paste the Print Screen. The game didn't allow me to Print Screen in the menu (and I have no idea why), so I had to create a window of the game, select another program, and Print Screen, capturing a print of the game "as a side effect". That's why MPC is also activated, because I needed to have another window selected that didn't block the window I actually wanted an image of.

In an age where everything can be doctored, I can't defend myself against the "it's a shoop lol!", but if you believe I'd create a thread like this "just to troll", you're a complete tool.