166 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Drago]

Knights of the Old Republic by far is the better game.

Then Mass Effect.

Lastly its Mass Effect 2.

[SithLordExarKun]

So lets sum this up, your criticism on the game is mostly focused on the lack of RPG elements and thus it feels oversimplified and shallow to you? Ok then.



Personally, i didn't feel ME1's inventory system and mod upgrades to be that complex and deep which i why i essentially preferred ME2's upgrade system, while i will fully admit i wasn't pleased at the lack of weapons and armor and felt that maybe it would have been more appropriate to add a little more weapons/armor and items(Once again this is my personal feeling). The inventory was there, but as you put it simplified and not in the way many would recognize.



As far as aesthetics go, it already surpasses ME1 in that regard and the cosmetics in ME1 were 3 armor models with different textures, true that it gave off the illusion of more choices but it is essentially the same piece or armor with a new paint job, in ME2 you had a few more armor models(terminus,collector,the different chestplates) which gave it some cosmetic variation.



I change my stance now, maybe they should ,as you and i mentioned several times, grab the best of both worlds, a new redesigned inventory + the essential weapons/ armor of ME2(meaning more models and variations than simple paint jobs) and more items(similar to that of more traditional RPG's like dragon age).



I guess this is agreeable? And thanks for being more polite this round, i apologize for accusing you of elitist behaviour earlier(i was annoyed at certain ME1 fans for relentlessly bashing people that liked ME2 better).

[SithLordExarKun]

Well part of the reason why i do like ME2 is also because the shooter aspect was improved, i am a shooter fan to a certain degree. Well somewhat i am versatile when it comes to gaming and don't always stick to one genre.

[Terror_K]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

So lets sum this up, your criticism on the game is mostly focused on the lack of RPG elements and thus it feels oversimplified and shallow to you? Ok then.

Personally, i didn't feel ME1's inventory system and mod upgrades to be that complex and deep which i why i essentially preferred ME2's upgrade system, while i will fully admit i wasn't pleased at the lack of weapons and armor and felt that maybe it would have been more appropriate to add a little more weapons/armor and items(Once again this is my personal feeling). The inventory was there, but as you put it simplified and not in the way many would recognize.

As far as aesthetics go, it already surpasses ME1 in that regard and the cosmetics in ME1 were 3 armor models with different textures, true that it gave off the illusion of more choices but it is essentially the same piece or armor with a new paint job, in ME2 you had a few more armor models(terminus,collector,the different chestplates) which gave it some cosmetic variation.

I change my stance now, maybe they should ,as you and i mentioned several times, grab the best of both worlds, a new redesigned inventory + the essential weapons/ armor of ME2(meaning more models and variations than simple paint jobs) and more items(similar to that of more traditional RPG's like dragon age).

I guess this is agreeable? And thanks for being more polite this round, i apologize for accusing you of elitist behaviour earlier(i was annoyed at certain ME1 fans for relentlessly bashing people that liked ME2 better).

That's cool... no problem. It's actually quite refreshing to have one of these debates actually end in such a rare fashion of understanding and compromise from both sides, so I in-turn thank you for debating this in such a manner and also apologise for some of my previous sarcasm. 

[MerinTB]

I'm just going to have to disagree with anyone who picks ONE aspect of a game mechanic that CAN appear in cRPG's and declare verbatim that a game without that element is not an RPG.



Any element you pick and I can grab you several classic cRPGs that don't have that element. Whether it's open world, inventory system, dialog options, story choice, multiple endings, skill-based combat, statistics, levels, whatever.



There is no blue-print that says "these elements make an RPG period" - there is a laundry list of game mechanics, however, that when you see several of them in a game it becomes an RPG.



There is also no rule that says games must stay in these non-existant pre-defined corners: that if you are first person and you shoot things that you can only be a first-person shooter, or that if you gather resources and upgrade your base while building an army you must be a strategy game only.



When it comes to defining something, you see if it has enough qualities to qualify as belonging to a definition. Nothing is exact, often not even in science. You could argue until you are blue in the face that all mammals give live birth, that mammals are not venomous, and only birds have bills... that won't change the fact that the platypus is a egg-laying, venomous, billed MAMMAL.

[boofieman]

I actually wish i could erase my memory so i could keep playing KotOR over and over again

[-System]

Those saying ME2 is not an RPG because it lacks an inventory system, pretty much, should re-evaluate what an RPG is.

[Xpheyel]

I pretty much voted based on time spent playing (ME2) and some ancillary things.



Combat wise, I actually like KOTOR's D20 rules just fine as an RPG (Master Flurry/Dual Wield Lightsabers ends up kind of obviously imba'd at the end of the day imo); both Mass Effects fall on the TPS side of the line for me though. So it seems like an apples-oranges comparison.



For general stuff, I do like that ME is fully VA'd for the main character. Also I think the Renegade options cover a bit of a broader range than KOTORs omnimalovelence. Though Paragon is basically light side.

[Dick Delaware]

Vaeliorin wrote...

The correct answer is KOTOR2. KOTOR2's story blows all of them out of the water so badly that even with the crappy gameplay, it's still better than any of those 3.

If only Obsidian had enough time to finish it. The writing was truly great in places, especially in talks with Kreia.

Overall, Mass Effect 2 is the clear winner. I think a lot of you are talking out of nostalgia. The level of writing and dialogue in ME2, depth of NPC's, and setting is far ahead of what KotoR had to offer. Star Wars is in itself a pretty mediocre setting with it's hilariously childish black-and-white morality, so KotOR didn't really have much to work with. Also, the characters were extremely predictable, and the plot twist wasn't even particularly amazing. It was a dumbed-down kids game where very few of your choices actually even matter (only at the Rakatan temple).

KotOR II did a better job with retconning Revan's back story than BioWare even did.

Mass Effect 2 by contrast, had sharp dialogue that was significantly better than many of its predecessors cringe-worthy moments - the change in lead writers helped, I think. While it's not Planescape: Torment quality, it's still very good, particularly during talks with Mordin, the Ardat-Yakshi quest, Tuchanka, Legion, and Thane. The only comparable moments in ME1 are the conversations with Saren, Sovereign and Vigil. But it's bogged down by a lot of mediocre combat, tedious driving sections, (yes, ME2 had tedious scanning, but that was at least thankfully shorter than driving around identical barren wastelands or up neverending ramps in Feros and Noveria) and a lot of really hammy dialogue in places.

Unlike in KotoR and ME1, your choices in ME2 feel like they actually matter, so you feel emotionally invested. There's even a part where you're punished for inaction. This is in sharp contrast to ME1 and KotoR, where choices are mostly an illusion and don't really change anything. Getting someone's loyalty or getting ship improvements actually matters, which makes you truly care, because your character has an effect on their surroundings.

Hopefully, ME3 will provide a great branching story to finish off this trilogy by providing a lot of content that's dependent on the choices made in the previous two games.

[Dick Delaware]

Look, initially I played KotOR when I was maybe thirteen years old. It was the very first RPG I ever played and I loved it. But then you grow older and realize how formulaic it can really be. The plot is kind of interesting, I'll give you that, but you begin to see how it's basically a series of fetch quests to get a bunch of plot coupons so that you can head over for a dramatic conclusion. The writing is also quite bad - compare the depth and level of characterization of the NPC's in KotOR I to its sequel and you'll see that it's not even close to Obsidian's effort.



The ending is pretty disappointing as well - a bunch of Jedi (who brainwashed you, btw) pin a medal on you. Being evil in that game is downright cartoonish as well. I feel more like a retarded schoolyard bully than someone who's truly malevolent when I play that game.

[Nizzemancer]

onelifecrisis wrote...

ME2 by a mile. Why is KOTOR1 even an option? It was utter garbage. *runs*

*trips*

*Starts whacking with baseball bat*

"My boot, your face; the perfect couple." oops, wrong game.

ME1, because Liara is a cute nerdy spacechick and I don't have to hear "chuppa-chakka-wanga" every time I talk to an alien... If the Twilek's, Jawas and other aliens in Kotor could just all learn to speak basic then it would have gotten the first place.

[Nizzemancer]

-System wrote...

Those saying ME2 is not an RPG because it lacks an inventory system, pretty much, should re-evaluate what an RPG is.

Every computer game is an RPG to some extent so it's kinda pointless to evaluate the defining aspects, any game where you act as someone else is an RPG.
It's Role playing game, not Stat-boosting inventory-filling third person research sneak beat em up shooter...that would be a SBIFTPRSBEUS-game...or something.

[KotOREffecT]

KotOR will always be number 1! For christ sake it had Jolee Bindo! Mr. Jolee freakin "I did it all for the wookies" Bindo.. Who you meet in the Shadowlands on Kashyyk.

How do you beat that? That Yoda like situation, where your all alone down there and at any moment something wrong could happen. Your feeling very vulnerable and then you see what looks like a crazy old kook with a lightsaber.

Just one of the many great epic moments in such a compelling game like KotOR.

Modifié par KotOREffecT, 06 avril 2010 - 03:15 .

[Terror_K]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Overall, Mass Effect 2 is the clear winner. I think a lot of you are talking out of nostalgia.

One could just as easily claim that a lot of people who vote ME2 are looking at it with rose-tinted glasses because its still very new. Again, its interesting that so many of ME1's complaints have only really surfaced or at least been so damning in the last few months... a year at the most. When ME3 rolls around I wonder how many of you who so adamantly defend ME2 now will be complaining about it then. Its the same reason I never trust game awards that are filled with so many nominees that were released in the past couple of months, and why I feel such awards for "Best of *insert year here*" should always wait until halfway through the following year before being evaluated.

[Pocketgb]

Terror_K wrote...

*snippet* When ME3 rolls around I wonder how many of you who so adamantly defend ME2 now will be complaining about it then.

Given that no one can please everyone, it's quite apparent that there'll be people that are upset.