139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Also, is there a coverchick from Jade Empire which is killable?

As it happens, all three of the romanceable options (one guy and two girls) are killable.



My farvorite villain would be Malak. I felt sorry for Saren because even though his plan was extremely moronic he was so very clearly indoctrinated and we've seen just how powerful that is (Benezia and those Cerberus scientists who turned themselves into husks). Loghain usually ends up a party member and so even though he is an antagonist and tries to kill you multiple times, lets Howe unleash whatever horrors he feels like upon the populations, and condones selling elves, imprisoning wardens, and betraying King it's hard to think of him as a villain. He's just misinformed and a tendency to go way, way too far. I don't think the Architect is at all malicious, just perpetually clueless about everyone else (including, it seems, other darkspawn) and while I killed him it's more becaue I thought our interests were incompatible than because I thought he was evil. Malak, though? Definitely evil. That he's evil is all your fault, certainly, but that doesn't change the fact that he still chose to follow you to the Sith.

[Volourn]

" That he's evil is all your fault, "



No, it's his fault. He chose evil. How can anyone else be blamed for his choices? That's ridiculous.



Loghain is the very defintion of evil. He's a bigot, he's hateful, he doesn't really care about others (maybe his daughter... maybe), he certainly doesn't care about his country as if he didn't he won't have started an unneeded civil war - him allowing Callain to die helped nobody but the darkspawn, his constant trying to murder grey wardens and even blaming for the king's death is pure malice. Nope, defintion of evil to a tee.



BIo tries to pretend he has honour at the end after he joins you yet anyone with honour wouldn't be sending assassins after others. And, if he had honour, he wouldn't have attacked you when the tradesmeet doesn't go his way.*shrug*

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Loghain cause he represents how a great hero that defeated Orlais can go mad with power and become a evil tyrant.



Absolute power corrupts Absolutely.

[Volourn]

But, Loghain never had absolute power...

[Ulicus]

nightshift002 wrote...

Not in the list but alltime favourite for me

Sarevok - hands down .

Ultimate badguy who just keeps coming back - most evil and cool voice spanned 2 entire baldurs gate games.

And you could actually convince him to change his evil ways in throne of bhaal - this guy has always been my favourite npc in any game - closely followed by shale (for the laughs).

I didn't like Sarevok's return in ToB -- I was pretty much married to the idea that a Bhaalspawn was utterly consumed by the fires that flamed their father's return on death, which is why I loathed Imoen as a Bhaalspawn, too -- but I thought he was an awesome villain in Baldur's Gate.

I actually preferred him to Irenicus. I realise I'm very much in the minority, but I never found Irenicus to be a particularly compelling villain, I found his backstory to be unnecessarily convoluted and his relationship with and need for the Bhaalspawn to be contrived, not to mention something that unnecessarily complicated how their "divine spark" worked. And now I'm rambling....

[Efesell]

fanman72 wrote...

Ravel Puzzlewell

Yesss.

[poorvalleyboy]

Master Li was the best villain. Here you spent the whole game thinking that he save you when you where a little, took you in, raised you, and trained you just to find out that it was all a 20 year plan to screw his brother and become emperor and half the game you where just a tool carring out his bidding. You can't get more diabolical than that.

[Sarah1281]

No, it's his fault. He chose evil. How can anyone else be blamed for his choices? That's ridiculous.

He wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to conquer half the Republic if it weren't for your plan to go find the Star Forge or you leaving the Order for the Mandalorian War in the first place. I knowthat he chose to be evil but saying it's not Revan's fault that he was even in a position to be a Sith Lord is like saying it's not Palpatine's fault that Anakin did. Without that influence, their paths - which they did choos of their own free will - would nonetheless not have lead there.

[Volourn]

"Ravel Puzzlewell"



She may be 'evil'; but she's not really a villain in PST.



"but saying it's not Revan's fault that he was even in a position to be a Sith Lord is like saying it's not Palpatine's fault that Anakin did. Without that influence, their paths - which they did choos of their own free will - would nonetheless not have lead there."



Make excuses all you want but nobody has the power to MAKE someone evil outside of potentially actual brainwahsing. Marek, and Anakin chose evil. That choice is on them. In Anakin he had plenty of good infleunces in his life but he chose the evil path. In Marek's case his abckground isn't clear but I'm suire he's been around better infleunces 9as everyone has to some degree0 but still chose evil. Nope. IT's their fault. plain and simple.



To blame another is a copout.

[this isnt my name]

Soverign/Reapers

[Zachriel]

Please don’t just list a name. Tell me *why* you think one villain is better than another.

Personally, I like BioWare stories, but find its villains consistently lacking.

Even tho he's not listed a choice in your thread title, I'm going to have to agree with some previous posters and say that the best villain Bioware ever created was Jon Irenicus.

No video game villain has me hate him the way Irenicus did.  He captures you, tortures you for weeks, possibly months, to the point where it's becoming hard for you to remember anything beyond the pain.  No questions asked, no demands made, and no emotion displayed.  He didn't seem to want anything but to hurt you, but he didn't take any pleasure from it either.  When you escape his prison, he manages to kidnap your lifelong best friend. 

He was immensely powerful.  At the beginning of the game he could have crushed you and and your entire party like bugs.  He was always a step ahead of you.  Every time you got close to him, it was either a distraction or a trap. 

Going after Irenicus was a very personal vendetta.  He took so much from you, and worst of all it all meant nothing to him.  Less than nothing, even.  Irenicus regarded the PC in the same way you or I might regard a screwdriver.  He didn't target you for hatred or vengeance or any other personal emotional motivation.  You were just a means to his end.  A convenient tool.  Nothing more.

It was soooo satisfying in the end to finally take him down. 

Of the villains you list, I think Malak was the best.  Yet even he pales in comparison to Irenicus.  Malak never really seemed threatening to me.  In the first encounter where you actually get to fight him, I was tearing him to pieces by myself.  I could easily have beaten him and ended the game then and there if not for the sudden interruption of a cutscene.  Even with a full party, I had to reload a few times the first time I fought Irenicus or even his sister Bodhi.  Of course, later I learned how to exploit some rather cheesy tactics for an easy win against both of them, but the point remains....

[TheMufflon]

Before rendering any judgment as to which villain is the better, I'll go over my reasoning around each of them.

The Architect: I haven't read any of the Dragon Age books (and I am told that he figures prominently in one of them) so I really don't know that much about him, which is his main problem as a villain. The player never really gets to know much about him until the very end, and even then all we're told is that he has some dubious plot about stopping the blights using warden blood. The base idea of the character is one that appeals to me, he's envisioned as both a thinking villain and a deal with the devil, but he never gets fleshed out enough to be truly interesting.

Loghain: Again, I haven't read any of the Dragon Age books, so I don't know all the ins and outs of Loghain, but unlike the Architect a lot is revealed about Loghain in the game. I always found Loghain to be an interesting character: An old warrior so set in his ways that he can't see that by trying to protect that which he loves he only imperils it further. Though he is blinded by both his pride and his prejudice, his complexity shines through in the obvious distaste he as for Howe's underhanded dealings, his expression as he orders his troops to retreat and last but certainly not least, in the conversations you can have with him if you spare his life. Loghain’s biggest drawback is the player’s first impression of him: At the war council his villainy is made too obvious as he all but twirls his moustache.

Malak: Malak to me is a typical, Saturday morning cartoon villain. He's ugly and evil, he frequently kills his own minions and his motivation is simply a maniacal desire to "Rule the World!". He doesn't have a single line that isn't a terrible cliché, rehashed from the movies. I find that throughout the story he is continuously over-shadowed by the more interesting villains in the game: Saul and, especially, the pre-amnesia Revan.

Saren: I haven't read the Mass Effect novel, either, so once again my opinions are based solely on how the character is presented in the game. Saren's takes the stage as the corrupted knight, while his goals and ideals may once have bee for the protection of the galaxy they have now been twisted by the Reapers. We follow him as he slides deeper and deeper into Sovereign’s influence, but even in the end when everything is at it's darkest, there is some small glimmer of the old Saren left in him. As a villain Saren plays his role well, hints are dropped periodically to tell us more about him and his schemes, and he occasionally shows up per hologram to taunt and frustrate the player. The one thing that mars Sarens appearance of good intentions gone wrong is the way he is presented before meeting Sovreign, I find that his corruption would have far greater pathos if they had toned down his ruthlessness and his racism.

So for a final judgment I say that Saren is the better villain, but Loghain is the better character.

Also, why is Irenecus not on that list?

EDIT: It seems my question had already been answered, that'll teach me for not reading the entire thread before posting.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 02 avril 2010 - 08:55 .

[Carmen_Willow]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

Loghain is my #1.
But then I love my shakespeare

Do you see him as MacBeth, destroyed by his own ambition? Richard III, who until the death of his brother was loyal?  Both were king killers...or yet another tragic king? I'd love to know.

[taine]

The Architect could have been really good if he had gotten more screen time. Unfortunately Awakening was too short and rushed towards the end for him to be a really effective villain. The setup was there though.

For me Malak was actually the least effective of the Bioware villains you listed. I never really felt any animosity towards him, and he was never established as a deep character beyond OMG DARKSIDE. 

Loghain simply was too distanced from your party to be an effective villain. A good villain should be thwarting the protagonists at every turn, making everyone's lives miserable, and being fun to hate. Loghain's villainy was all in cutscenes away from your party. He/She must also have a reason for being that way, motivations etc. beyond just being psychotic and evil. Loghain obviously had those, but the game just didn't get into them enough. Arl Howe was a better villain, at least for Human Nobles.

Saren again had the potential to be a good villain, and at the beginning of the game he really was. But then he went the route of many other Bioware villains and vanished from the protagonists' sights. You were dealing with the fallout of his actions and trying to catch up to him basically until the endgame. Of the characters on the list he was probably the closest to a well done villain though. 

Irenicus is the best one Bioware has created, and probably the best conceived video game villain of all time. I'm willing to give Bioware a pass on this, because a good villain is probably the single hardest thing to write in any medium. I can count the truly good dastardly villains produced in any medium in the last 20 years on one hand, and Bioware has created one of them. That's saying something I suppose.

Modifié par taine, 02 avril 2010 - 09:20 .

[TheMufflon]

The fact that the majority of posts in this thread either reply with just a name, or with a character that was never even on the list makes me fear for this community.



One would think that CRPG players were, at the very least, able to read.

[Vicious]

Loghain’s biggest drawback is the player’s first impression of him: At the war council his villainy is made too obvious as he all but twirls his moustache.

THANK YOU.

[Efesell]

And the voice doesn't help.

It's like when we first meet Howe, he says one word and it's "Oh hi Tim Curry, when will you be betraying me."

[AphoticCosmos]

I would have to say Malak on the grounds of his voice.



And the fact that he's a 7-foot colossus in a jumpsuit wielding a super-long lightsaber.



Saren is a close second, followed by Loghain and then the Architect, but I love (hate?) all of them

[phil eh steak]

I want a cunning villian.

[NvVanity]

Malak hands down. Revan (you) and him were together for several years and had done and accomplished so much and he betrayed you. He's an interesting villain in the reason why I'm going to have to kill him. To reclaim my title as the Sith Lord or to stop his reign and help the Jedi and the galaxy.

[Tinnic]

Srau wrote...

I know they are not in the list but :
Jon Irenicus and his sister Bodhi.

O man! Now I feel old! But this is so true! I miss those two.

[DragonShepard138]

I'd say the Architech, we dont know as much about him as we'd like to but he does have a lot of potential as a character. He is also very intelligent and wants to end all the blights.

[Rovay]

Probalby Malak, because of his brutality, ambitions, ruthlessness and because he makes it very personal for Player to kill him. Still, I'd wish he had more proper and intimidating outfit... Made me feel he was wearing a red gimp suit...

Modifié par Rovay, 03 avril 2010 - 10:31 .

[MajorStranger]

Let's take a good look at everyone of them

The Achitect: I can't talk about him since I haven't played Awakening

Loghain: Killed his son-in-law to gain power. That's evil mate!

Saren: Was corrupted by sovereign into killing every organic life in the galaxy. Tragic pragmatic character.

Malak: Pure evil. but other than being evil because he is, we don't know why he is really.

Modifié par MajorStranger, 24 mai 2010 - 03:23 .