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[TheRevanchist]

Sun Li the Glorious Stratigest. He was the father figure for your character, your whole goal in life is to save your master out of the love you have for him. Only to find out he never gave a damn about you and pulled a plot twist I would never see coming in a million years.



As for the listed names...a tie between Loghain and Saren. Loghain is probably the most tragic antagonist I've seen, but I felt more sympathy for Saren. Honestly I hated Loghain, I wanted nothing more then to impale him on my sword.

[Persephone]

I haven't finished KOTOR yet, but out of those yet mentioned, Loghain Mac Tir is my favorite.

Why you ask?

Let's see:

Like a well written antagonist should, he still sparks debates and very intense feelings over a year after the game's release. Despite a few hiccups:

The obvious "eeeeeeeevil" at the war council. C'mon, that was subtle as a sledgehammer and ruined what could have been a gutwrenching moment once he decides to retreat.

Too little screen time as well as the fact that you can only recruit him for the final battle. (He won't say much on sidequests, except DLCs) Only a few conversations in camp with insane approval leaps. Would he approve of you that quickly? I doubt it. Before recruiting him we only see him at his "worst": Retreat --> Duncan & Cailan die. Scenes with Howe. Etc. Very little is shown of him and they obviously "want" you to kill him, the slavery being the not so subtle "reminder". Then the horrific execution scene at the Landsmeet. I hate it. I never want to see it again. Ever. It's inhuman to to that with his daughter so near.

However: He absolutely SHINES at the Landsmeet. The transition is exquisitely done and I simply cannot understand those who enjoy killing him. He has some of the most intense & witty dialogue and his Redeemer ending is the most beautiful of them all. I still get chills by the way he says "Please, I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right!" . Besides, to me most of his actions are misguided and due to circumstances rather than the "HAHA, I am EVIL!" attitude many antagonists have. I do not blame him for Ostagar, never took the assassins personally and strangely enough do not blame him for not trusting the Wardens.

Then we have the books. The bugged content adding new depth to him. He has the best VO actor in the entire game IMO. And his Awakening cameo brightens that bugfest considerably. A great, tragic character. I wish Awakening had given us the opportunity to have him as a companion.

[Ryzaki]

I have to go with Malak because of his ties to Revan. The others weren't personal it was just doing the galaxy/country a favor.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2010 - 01:54 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Persephone wrote...

I haven't finished KOTOR yet, but out of those yet mentioned, Loghain Mac Tir is my favorite.

Why you ask?

Let's see:

Like a well written antagonist should, he still sparks debates and very intense feelings over a year after the game's release. Despite a few hiccups:

The obvious "eeeeeeeevil" at the war council. C'mon, that was subtle as a sledgehammer and ruined what could have been a gutwrenching moment once he decides to retreat.

Too little screen time as well as the fact that you can only recruit him for the final battle. (He won't say much on sidequests, except DLCs) Only a few conversations in camp with insane approval leaps. Would he approve of you that quickly? I doubt it. Before recruiting him we only see him at his "worst": Retreat --> Duncan & Cailan die. Scenes with Howe. Etc. Very little is shown of him and they obviously "want" you to kill him, the slavery being the not so subtle "reminder". Then the horrific execution scene at the Landsmeet. I hate it. I never want to see it again. Ever. It's inhuman to to that with his daughter so near.

However: He absolutely SHINES at the Landsmeet. The transition is exquisitely done and I simply cannot understand those who enjoy killing him. He has some of the most intense & witty dialogue and his Redeemer ending is the most beautiful of them all. I still get chills by the way he says "Please, I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right!" . Besides, to me most of his actions are misguided and due to circumstances rather than the "HAHA, I am EVIL!" attitude many antagonists have. I do not blame him for Ostagar, never took the assassins personally and strangely enough do not blame him for not trusting the Wardens.

Then we have the books. The bugged content adding new depth to him. He has the best VO actor in the entire game IMO. And his Awakening cameo brightens that bugfest considerably. A great, tragic character. I wish Awakening had given us the opportunity to have him as a companion.

Loghain was certainly the villian that would look best in a Speedo.

[Sarah1281]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I haven't finished KOTOR yet, but out of those yet mentioned, Loghain Mac Tir is my favorite.

Why you ask?

Let's see:

Like a well written antagonist should, he still sparks debates and very intense feelings over a year after the game's release. Despite a few hiccups:

The obvious "eeeeeeeevil" at the war council. C'mon, that was subtle as a sledgehammer and ruined what could have been a gutwrenching moment once he decides to retreat.

Too little screen time as well as the fact that you can only recruit him for the final battle. (He won't say much on sidequests, except DLCs) Only a few conversations in camp with insane approval leaps. Would he approve of you that quickly? I doubt it. Before recruiting him we only see him at his "worst": Retreat --> Duncan & Cailan die. Scenes with Howe. Etc. Very little is shown of him and they obviously "want" you to kill him, the slavery being the not so subtle "reminder". Then the horrific execution scene at the Landsmeet. I hate it. I never want to see it again. Ever. It's inhuman to to that with his daughter so near.

However: He absolutely SHINES at the Landsmeet. The transition is exquisitely done and I simply cannot understand those who enjoy killing him. He has some of the most intense & witty dialogue and his Redeemer ending is the most beautiful of them all. I still get chills by the way he says "Please, I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right!" . Besides, to me most of his actions are misguided and due to circumstances rather than the "HAHA, I am EVIL!" attitude many antagonists have. I do not blame him for Ostagar, never took the assassins personally and strangely enough do not blame him for not trusting the Wardens.

Then we have the books. The bugged content adding new depth to him. He has the best VO actor in the entire game IMO. And his Awakening cameo brightens that bugfest considerably. A great, tragic character. I wish Awakening had given us the opportunity to have him as a companion.

Loghain was certainly the villian that would look best in a Speedo.

Have you seen the tight clothing Malak wears? Missing half of his face and deathly pale though he may be, the man is built.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yeah, but Malak's facial problems can't be cured with a good night's rest.

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 12 novembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[Persephone]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I haven't finished KOTOR yet, but out of those yet mentioned, Loghain Mac Tir is my favorite.

Why you ask?

Let's see:

Like a well written antagonist should, he still sparks debates and very intense feelings over a year after the game's release. Despite a few hiccups:

The obvious "eeeeeeeevil" at the war council. C'mon, that was subtle as a sledgehammer and ruined what could have been a gutwrenching moment once he decides to retreat.

Too little screen time as well as the fact that you can only recruit him for the final battle. (He won't say much on sidequests, except DLCs) Only a few conversations in camp with insane approval leaps. Would he approve of you that quickly? I doubt it. Before recruiting him we only see him at his "worst": Retreat --> Duncan & Cailan die. Scenes with Howe. Etc. Very little is shown of him and they obviously "want" you to kill him, the slavery being the not so subtle "reminder". Then the horrific execution scene at the Landsmeet. I hate it. I never want to see it again. Ever. It's inhuman to to that with his daughter so near.

However: He absolutely SHINES at the Landsmeet. The transition is exquisitely done and I simply cannot understand those who enjoy killing him. He has some of the most intense & witty dialogue and his Redeemer ending is the most beautiful of them all. I still get chills by the way he says "Please, I have done so much wrong. Allow me to do one last thing right!" . Besides, to me most of his actions are misguided and due to circumstances rather than the "HAHA, I am EVIL!" attitude many antagonists have. I do not blame him for Ostagar, never took the assassins personally and strangely enough do not blame him for not trusting the Wardens.

Then we have the books. The bugged content adding new depth to him. He has the best VO actor in the entire game IMO. And his Awakening cameo brightens that bugfest considerably. A great, tragic character. I wish Awakening had given us the opportunity to have him as a companion.

Loghain was certainly the villian that would look best in a Speedo.

Images....in MY HEAD.........will they ever go away now? 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Persephone wrote...

Loghain was certainly the villian that would look best in a Speedo.

Images....in MY HEAD.........will they ever go away now? 

If you're lucky.....Nooooooo.

[Giggles_Manically]

The architect is the Jowan of the darkspawn:

I made the mother go crazy!

I made the last archdemon run amok!

I make crazy darkspawn, and some that dont listen to me!

I planned on turning the survivors of a plan that would kill most living things into darkspawn/human hybrids!

.........

I only had the best intentions!



Gah so much fail in one being is too much to handle.

[Sarah1281]

Now Giggles, don't you think you're being a little hard on Jowan? 

[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Now Giggles, don't you think you're being a little hard on Jowan? 

Why?

Both of them utterly fail at 99% of things they do.
Both of them cause huge problems that are worse than what was wrong before.
Both of them have an annoying VO.
Both of them claim to want to do something good, but still fail.

I do give Jowan over to the mages though, but as for the architect... as Sigrun puts it:
Time to take out the trash.

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Now Giggles, don't you think you're being a little hard on Jowan? 

Why?

Both of them utterly fail at 99% of things they do.
Both of them cause huge problems that are worse than what was wrong before.
Both of them have an annoying VO.
Both of them claim to want to do something good, but still fail.

I do give Jowan over to the mages though, but as for the architect... as Sigrun puts it:
Time to take out the trash.

It was a joke about how the Architect is so ridiculously Jowan-like that it's not fair to compare him to Jowan.

[Giggles_Manically]

Oh I see.



Still I get a laugh at how he tries to convince me to help.

Yes all your other plans went boom in your face, and now you want me to help you with another one?

[Giggles_Manically]

That being said Master Li is the best Bioware villain for me.

[MadMoskus]

Loghain is clearly the better of those.



I have compared him a lot to Malak though, and found them to share many similarities (and Maric = Revan)